Are litigation paralegal job opportunities growing or declining?

Are jobs in this industry on the rise? Are there any sub-sectors that are growing?

Where are the jobs? Which places have the most litigation paralegal opportunities?

Host said: Are jobs in this industry on the rise? Are there any sub-sectors that are growing?

Where are the jobs? Which places have the most litigation paralegal opportunities?

The paralegal market is oversaturated. It is not the high growth job it used to be. As always, law firms employ the bulk of paralegals, then corporation. then governmnt. IP law (intellectual property) (ideas of the mind) pay. the most.

Host said: Which places have the most litigation paralegal opportunities?

Law firms, especially plaintiffs' PI firms, claimants' Workers' Comp firms and med mal firms. Insurance defense firms employ many litigation paralegals. Any law firm or entity that is involved in litigation of any kind will likely employ litigation paralegals.

Litigation is very tough. The days are long and filled with critical deadlines. Litigation attorneys are intense and contentious. They live in a contentious and strife-ridden world. It sometimes spills over into their dealings with their nonlawyer assistants.

I worked in PI litigation and WC for nearly seven years. Take it from me, one needs an iron constitution, titanium nerves, stainless-steel skin and a golden personality to survive in litigation. I would not recommend litigation to anyone who wants to be a paralegal.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: .

I worked in PI litigation and WC for nearly seven years. Take it from me, one needs an iron constitution, titanium nerves, stainless-steel skin and a golden personality to survive in litigation. I would not recommend litigation to anyone who wants to be a paralegal.

Seriously- To keep one of my jobs, I would have to become a perscription pill junkie. The stress bacame that bad. MAybe not a bad idea - pop pills for 2 years, then get a better job.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: To keep one of my jobs, I would have to become a prescription pill junkie. The stress became that bad.....

Oh, I know!

kmm said: MAybe not a bad idea - pop pills for 2 years, then get a better job.

....which may still be stressful and need more pills. But company-provided healthcare may cover rehab!

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Oh, I know! ....which may still be stressful and need more pills. But company-provided healthcare may cover rehab!

lol, work the job- become a junkie - then make law firm health plan pay for rehab.

You have no idea how many female employees are on perscription stress pills to handle the stress. It is the new wave of job survival.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: Seriously- To keep one of my jobs, I would have to become a perscription pill junkie. The stress bacame that bad. MAybe not a bad idea - pop pills for 2 years, then get a better job.

That whole situation is very distressful to me- Because I know what happened, I do not blame myself. There was nothing I could do about it (minus becoming a junkie). FOr these type of bosses, the diffidult boss, they recommend trying to talk to the boss. However, they do add the caveat: be prepared to have your walking papers handed to you.

DLP - Can you imagine trying to talk to your boss about slowing down your hours ?? Or any type of dicussion on the workload?

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Oh, I know! ....which may still be stressful and need more pills. But company-provided healthcare may cover rehab!

that job really makes me sick. The attorney had in place an excellent paralegal for this job. After 3 months - I could run my shop hands down. Interestingly enough - when I was hired I was told I would be running my own shop. That does not line up with micromanging me to death. Gosh he was a bad pickel. Yeah - pickel is code for something else .

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: Can you imagine trying to talk to your boss about slowing down your hours ?? Or any type of discussion on the workload?

HAH! Not hardly whatsoever. That discussion would have lasted about forty-five seconds.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: HAH! Not hardly whatsoever. That discussion would have lasted about forty-five seconds.

LOL, LOL- And that is the truth.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: ........

Ligation is very tough. ......
I worked in PI litigation and WC for nearly seven years. Take it from me, one needs an iron constitution, titanium nerves, stainless-steel skin and a golden personality to survive in litigation. I would not recommend litigation to anyone who wants to be a paralegal.

And do not forget to bring a the essential "brown paper bag," for when you hyperventilate from stress. Just grab the bag, pull it over you nose and mouth and breath.

As a career paralegal, I can honestly say that the stress is what you make it. Here are a few of the ground rules for finding a good job or being a good paralegal (depending on your drive and/or level of experience):

1) Paralegals can either be simply "gophers" ("Gopher this!" "Now gopher that!") or they can contribute fully to the tasks and clients' wellbeings. Usually, this varies from firm to firm, and occasionally it varies from attorney to attorney. Find out through all available research, including networking, which type of attitude your manager will have about assists from a non-JD. Then determine whether you can work in that environment.

2) Yes, there's undoubtably stress. If the stress level is getting you to seek prescription or recreational substances, then this profession might not be for you. The stress you feel should be about double on the attorney, because as one attorney told me once, "In Law Firms, [stuff] rolls uphill." If the paralegal(s) make mistakes, the Attorney can be fired or disbarred for the gaffs. Again, communication, research and a feel for interpersoanl communication are the key. The Attorney(s) need to know that whatever they're feeling, you're feeling too. If, when they show their stress, it sometimes help if you're able to show yours a little. If they are rocks, then it may help if you're one too. Seldom is the time when the attorney is a ball of nerves, and needs you to be his/her "rock," and NEVER have I seen a time when the attorney's made of steel, and wants to spend more of his/her waking hours picking you up off the floor. Again, choose your firm and manager wisely.

Next post, I'll get to the question above.

Next post, I'll get to the question above.

On that note, back to the question at hand: "choosing" your attorney is getting harder and harder, considering the economy. I am not surprised that our market is more saturated now, but I am surprised at the firms, mine included, who are retaining all their attorneys and dropping their experienced Paralegals, who usually have double the experience at half the pay as the attorney-in-question. The Department of Labor (for what they're worth) still count us in the top-need and top-growing occupations. Could they be THAT wrong, or is the market simply masking the need right now?

In the Boston area, good Paralegals are always in demand, but we're over-saturated with lawyers, and that's the difference. I'm sure it's the same in most of the big cities. I usually commute to Boston (1.5 hours, at least, each way) to work. For the suburbs and rural areas, and even in the minor cities like my hometown of Lowell, ALL legal jobs are scarcer and scarcer.

Bruin30 in Lowell, Massachusetts said: The stress you feel should be about double on the attorney, because as one attorney told me once, "In Law Firms, [stuff] rolls uphill." If the paralegal(s) make mistakes, the Attorney can be fired or disbarred for the gaffes.....

Not necessarily, if the attorney is a partner. The buck supposedly stops at the attorney-partner's desk (unless you worked for an attorney for whom I worked, who said it stops at the paralegal's desk), but attorney-partner can make you pay by canning you. Or attorney-partner can can you because the individual feels your relationship is stressful.

Bruin30 in Lowell, Massachusetts said: The Attorney(s) need to know that whatever they're feeling, you're feeling too.

Come on. Attorneys don't care about you. Attorneys don't give a good goddam whether you are stressed. They only want the work done. My experience, from more than eleven years in law across litigation, WC, estate planning, probate and elder law, is if you let on you're stressed attorneys use it as an opportunity to heap more stress-abuse on you.

I agree with you about communication. But it's difficult or impossible if the individual is underlying belligerent and aloof, and if you and that individual have little in common outside of the office.

Bruin30 in Lowell, Massachusetts said: In the Boston area, good Paralegals are always in demand, but we're over-saturated with lawyers, and that's the difference. I'm sure it's the same in most of the big cities.

Denver is a big city and it's not true here. Based on nearly fifteen years, on and off, of watching ads and, off and on, for looking for jobs, Denver has had few paralegal openings. Competition is keen for these jobs because of the large number of good, experienced paralegals and entry paralegals seeking them.

Come on. Attorneys don't care about you. Attorneys don't give a good goddam whether you are stressed. They only want the work done. My experience, from more than eleven years in law across litigation, WC, estate planning, probate and elder law, is if you let on you're stressed attorneys use it as an opportunity to heap more stress-abuse on you.

Practically speaking, I agree with you 100%. However, sometimes making it through the day is all about appearances. If they perceive that you're with them, they'll tend to take care of you, however minimally, whether they actually give a good goddam or not.

Attorneys are trained arguers & politicians. The political game and sometimes even the narcissism are ingrained. Try to remember remember that it's all about THEIR perception, not ours. "What's in it for me/my client" is any lawyer's motto--and that doesn't stop upon leaving the courtroom.

I agree with you about communication. But it's difficult or impossible if the individual is underlying belligerent and aloof, and if you and that individual have little in common outside of the office.

Yup: Time to look for a new job. Belligerent & aloof is a BAD combination. Again, I think it's the economy that's holding many of us in bad sitautions.

Based on nearly fifteen years, on and off, of watching ads and, off and on, for looking for jobs, Denver has had few paralegal openings. Competition is keen for these jobs because of the large number of good, experienced paralegals and entry paralegals seeking them.

I'm assuming for a moment that your belligerent & aloof supervisor has impeded you from being able to seek, join, and thereby use a decent network-- like a "Denver Bar Association Paralegal Committee" or a "Greater Denver Litigation Paralegal" group? I'm making those up, of course, but is there something-- anything-- of the like, and if so, then would you be prevented from joining because of your supervisor's attitude toward you and your role?

For one thing, I never had time for paralegal associations. I typically worked a 7 a.m. or earlier to 5 p.m. and sometimes later workday. I took off very little time for lunch. Law and paralegal stress were the last things I would want to think about or discuss after a long and stressful day.

Those things aside, it would serve no purpose. It wouldn't change my situation or, more importantly, that individual's attitude. It will not change abruptness or belligerence, nor will it ease stress.

So many people believe that changing jobs is the panacea to a bad employer situation. Not necessarily. Sometimes one is better off staying put. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. It's also better, sometimes, just to hold on to a job for as long as possible. Sometimes one has no choice but to hold on to that job.

Attorneys, by and large, and particularly litigators, are a tough and malevolent lot. Best advice, based on my experience, is do not work in the legal industry. Second best advice is do not work in litigation.

Attorneys are trained arguers & politicians. The political game and sometimes even the narcissism are ingrained.

Meaning - if you're working for an attorney who doesn't like you, then don't plan on being there very long.

I did litigation in Manhattan and tried to get away from it.I wanted to and attempted to get into firms that did either real estate law, intellectual prop, or estate planning/trusts. It was totally impossible to find jobs in those areas in late 90s and on - unless you have a friend,relative or significant other in those areas.Isn't that nepotism in a way? So what does that mean - I should have found an lawyer boyfriend in areas to further my career? That's kind of sad.My days were just like yours - also long, money and treatment was crappy.Amazing health insurance, pension, benefits, etc. None of that pays the rent or bills so it was useless.I was so miserable I tried to change employers and each new one seemed to be worse than the previous one or just worse "in a different way". There were litigation para or secretary jobs galore compared to the other areas.Paras seemed happier in non-litigation areas.

Mary inTampa in Tampa, Florida said: Attorneys are trained arguers & politicians. The political game and sometimes even the narcissism are ingrained.

Meaning - if you're working for an attorney who doesn't like you, then don't plan on being there very long.

Litigation attorneys in particular bring that confrontational attitude with them outside of the courtroom.It was my observation that yes, the narcissism and hostility are totally ingrained.No matter how good you work, it's never enough.Implacable personality psychosis.I guess based on that, nobody liked me enough to keep me very long.If great work, dedication and a good attitude are not enough for the boss to like you - then what are you supposed to do - bed the guy? Granted I know a select (and hardy)few were doing that where I temped.What happens when he grows tired of her or they break up? Does she get that great reference? What does he tell the next guy calling him? How is that different from the streetwalker? I thought we were past that politically in the workplace.I suspect in some places this still goes on..based on talk I overheard as a temp.You hear a lot like that.

As far as for-or-against perceptions go, I was always with that individual. He knew I put in a lot of hours. E.g. I became ill unexpectedly. I was in the hospital two days and was home two days. First day back I put in twelve hours straight. Next day I put in eighteen hours. He gave me an extra personal day. I should think putting in such hours would prove I was with him. The individual did say I was loyal and an excellent employee the day he canned me. So much for him giving a good goddam about me.

He wasn't aware fully of the other lengths I would go to do things or get things for him. I tried to tell him but he refused to listen. He only cared about getting the work.

I think the problem with litigators is they deal with contention. Some of them let it spill over to dealings with their legal assistants. They assume, and, hence, perceive, their legal assistants are "against" them if they do not immediately and affirmatively respond to them. They become even more demanding, and abrupt, in those situations.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: For one thing, I never had time for paralegal associations. I typically worked a 7 a.m. or earlier to 5 p.m. and sometimes later workday. I took off very little time for lunch. Law and paralegal stress were the last things I would want to think about or discuss after a long and stressful day.

Man - really - you got used, big time. Even billalbe hour paralegals in the BIG firms do not work those hours.

Of course the attorney does not care if paralegal stressed. Correct- Not their problem. They just want the work done. Absolutely true.

Yeah , yeah- I get the "it's all about how you react to the stress"
Depends upon the personal circumstances - if circumstances are not good- you are limited in abilities to deal wiath stress. ANd that is how the cookie crumbles.

Cindy, can you come over to this thread a moment and comment on Widener?

Thanks.

www.indeed.com/forum/job/paralegal/Paralegal-questions/t95206

Bruin30 in Lowell, Massachusetts said: As a career paralegal, I can honestly say that the stress is what you make it....... Find out through all available research, including networking, which type of attitude your manager will have about assists from a non-JD. Then determine whether you can work in that environment... Stress... and NEVER have I seen a time when the attorney's made of steel, and wants to spend more of his/her waking hours picking you up off the floor. Again, choose your firm and manager wisely.

And then their is the stress level that broke the camel's back.
Every place is different, as every boss is different. Point- The attorneys will push and push to get more work out of you. And if that is an every day thing- it is a "workhorse" farm.

Choose your firm and manager wisely - and research the firm and attorneys through networking,etc- Are you sure you are a seasoned paralegal or just someone who reads articles????

Bruin30 in Lowell, Massachusetts said: As a career paralegal, .. ....
1) Paralegals can either be simply "gophers" ("Gopher this!" "Now gopher that!") or they can contribute fully to the tasks and clients' wellbeings.... ...

Paralegal "gopher" - Where do you come up with this. Yeah- their are different types of paralegal jobs, which have all sorts of different duties to be performed. SOme substantial, some less.

I still think you read articles. Wht areas of law do you work in?

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: Paralegal "gopher" - Where do you come up with this. Yeah- their are different types of paralegal jobs, which have all sorts of different duties to be performed. SOme substantial, some less.

I still think you read articles. Wht areas of law do you work in?

"gopher"- sounds like the secretary.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: "gopher"- sounds like the secretary.

But then again- yeah . I can see how some paralegal job descriptions would akin to the "gopher" anology.

Getting through the day is sometimes about appearances. That is funny.

Yeah, sure - more like the physical appearance of documents being produced- appearance of x number of billable hours.

DLP- I guess that is where the Paralegal Magic skills come in handy.

Mary inTampa in Tampa, Florida said: Attorneys are trained arguers & politicians.

Absolutely true. How else can they "argue" a case.

Grant013 in New York, New York said:

No matter how good you work, it's never enough.Implacable personality psychosis.I guess based on that, nobody liked me enough to keep me very long.If great work, dedication and a good attitude are not enough for the boss to like you - then what are you supposed to do ...

I hear you Gant NY, NY. As to your comment, "nobody liked me enough to keep me very long" - Are you referring to permanent position or temp assignments?

Grant013 in New York, New York said:

I did litigation in Manhattan and tried to get away from it.I wanted to and attempted to get into firms that did either real estate law, intellectual prop, or estate planning/trusts. ..It was totally impossible...I was so miserable I tried to change employers and each new one seemed to be worse than the previous one or just worse "in a different way". ....

Geez- I had similar things going on with me when I was a working paralegal in litigtion- very uncanny. I changed employers, a lot.
My Paralegal career of 10 years never panned out. I just "failed to launch" ha.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Cindy, can you come over to this thread a moment and comment on Widener?

Thanks.

www.indeed.com/forum/job/paralegal/Paralegal-questions/t95206

Cool- I put my comments in. Thanks.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: And then their is the stress level that broke the camel's back.
Every place is different, as every boss is different. Point- The attorneys will push and push to get more work out of you. And if that is an every day thing- it is a "workhorse" farm.....

Really- I should have been able to deal with my last job better-only 9-5. Unfortunately, at that time I was lacking necessary tools in my shed to cope. Moreover - I feared getting fired if I slowed down and just worked a normal, productive pace. When I did one week, he was in my office - need more work [slave] [And then he cracked his whip] -

And then came the fear that if I did not keep up with this insane pace- I would be called in and terminated.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: I guess that is where the Paralegal Magic skills come in handy.

Yes. But, sadly, I missed school the day Carnac lectured our paralegal class. Also missed him when he put on a CLE.

Correction: I also missed class the day David Copperfield lectured.

My last attorney complained I never learned how to read his mind. As I wrote, above, I missed Carnac's lecture and CLE.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Correction: I also missed class the day David Copperfield lectured.

My last attorney complained I never learned how to read his mind. As I wrote, above, I missed Carnac's lecture and CLE.

Yeah - David Copperfield.
Unfortuantley, he was not a guest lecturer at my school.

Copperfield should lecture at every paralegal school!

Yuri Geller, the guy who could bend spoons with his mind, would be good too.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Copperfield should lecture at every paralegal school!

Yuri Geller, the guy who could bend spoons with his mind, would be good too.

I like to learn out to pull documents out of my buttocks.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: I like to learn out to pull documents out of my buttocks.

CORRECTION: learn how to pull documents out of my buttock

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: I hear you Gant NY, NY. As to your comment, "nobody liked me enough to keep me very long" - Are you referring to permanent position or temp assignments?

permanent. in the temp jobs they always wanted to make me perm but I was the one who chose not to work there, based on what I observed in the workplace.

Grant013 in New York, New York said: permanent. in the temp jobs they always wanted to make me perm but I was the one who chose not to work there, based on what I observed in the workplace.

Wow- seems there are a lot of similarities in our Paralegal career.

"nobody liked me enough to keep me very long" Are you referring to terminations, not related to incompetence? I had lots of experience in terminations myself.

Obviously terminations not related to incompetence. It's all water under the bridge - that was a lifetime ago.Here's a funny story:One temp to perm job was at a fortune 500 top 10 Manhattan law firm.People were dying to work there as paralegals.I was hired for - of course the temp agency never told me - for an insane chairman of real estate.I was this "classic manic bi-polar with major anger issues" man's personal assistant,gopher, and verbal abuse "whipping girl". I was told he was my first priority.Do whatever Herb wants I was told.He was the "god" in that firm, the rain maker.3 months of his potty mouth, screaming and erratic temper tantrums and I knew I was ready to jump off a building.I could not sleep, eat, was a nervous wreck.the money was crap too.Where's the guy on this board who said "It's how you handle the stress" - I'd like to see him try to handle that every day. This Satan of real estate dept dropped dead of heart attack year after I quit.All of Manhattan was talking.Not too many people shed tears for a man who was once sued by a male para whom he hit.Fortune 500? Large firm? You couldn't pay me enough today to work for any of them.They are like the current Wall Street and Sub-prime mortgage situation: rainmakers have unlimited power.

The higher they climb the harder they fall.I feel no sympathy whatsoever for any of these fortune 500 lawyers - especially in litigation and real estate.If one of them asked me for a dollar on the street because he became rightfully and justifiably homeless after losing HIS job or pulling something similar to Madoff - I would laugh in that lawyer's face.I would remind him of how he treated me when I was his paralegal.That's karma.

Grant013 in New York, New York said: Obviously terminations not related to incompetence....

Here, here. No, they are not.

I like your "Satan" crack, Tanya.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: CORRECTION: learn how to pull documents out of my buttock

That's EASY. Client documents, something you know is really important, make several copies and keep them in a folder at your desk; or put in several differen parts of the file; also make a subfile for something, along with putting where it goes. If it' a pleading, have several copies indexed immediately; pre-trial stuff, scan it and attach it to an Outlook entry.

Mary in Tampa, Florida said: That's EASY. Client documents, something you know is really important, make several copies and keep them in a folder at your desk; or put in several different parts of the file; also make a subfile for something, along with putting where it goes. If it's a pleading, have several copies indexed immediately; pre-trial stuff, scan it and attach it to an Outlook entry.

Or simply keep up as much as possible with your filing. You'll always know where the document is if you have indexed it into its appropriate subfile. Important for pleadings and discovery.

Alternatively, keep all your unfiled items in ONE place, such as your inbox or an unfiled items basket.

Mary in Tampa, Florida said: That's EASY. Client documents, something you know is really important, make several copies and keep them in a folder at your desk; or put in several differen parts of the file; also make a subfile for something, along with putting where it goes. If it' a pleading, have several copies indexed immediately; pre-trial stuff, scan it and attach it to an Outlook entry.

Actually , I was referring to the magic tallent of pulling them out of buttock when whip cracked for more work. i.e. magical production

Perception of doing work:

Sure, just keep documents spread all over your desk and be at the computer- it appears that you are working.

Problem: (1)where are the documents, (2) where are the billable hours required to meet.

YOu cannot to set up a perception of doing work. Not in a law firm. YOu are either producing enough to satisfy firm's needs or you are not.

Grant013 in New York, New York said: Obviously terminations not related to incompetence. ..... for an insane chairman of real estate.....I was told he was my first priority.Do whatever Herb wants I was told.He was the "god" in that firm......knew I was ready to jump off a building.I could not sleep, eat, was a nervous wreck....

My point being- (1) Herb, was insane. (2)Morover- "some" attorneys are just one step away from falling apart. And those are the ones that lay it on the paralegals. There type of stress.....beyond what they cause you...and it is not becasue we are females.

It is stress that cannot be managed for long lengths of time.

DLP- more Snaps.

Point - if you say, I'm working on it- are they going to lose it.
THrow an anxiety freak out. OH- I have seen that one. Yeah, they are such rocks, so together- push their buttons and they attact in anxiety craziness, ususally yelling- like they are insane.

Yeah - Briun,in Lowell- answer to that.

YOu work in Lowell - a satellite of the big firms???