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Kohlsisevil in Redding, California

38 months ago

Working at Kohls sucks. The company completely kisses customers butts. However when it comes to associates, we are treated as criminals and unequal. During over nighters, they turn off the air conditioning. I guess the associates are not human enough to receive what the customers receive? Also, we are not allowed to put our own stuff on hold. Such BS!

The LP at our store walks around like he is a BA. In reality, all LP is, is a mall cop! You have no gun, you do not carry hand cuffs, you can't touch a person. GET OVER YOURSELVES. In all fairness, the LP at my store has little man syndrome. I mean wouldn't you if you were 5ft tall, petite, your wife was significantly bigger/taller than you and you had red hair?

Kohls does not care about their associates. To them, you are not irreplaceable. LPO's are nothing but corporates little puppets. Suck ups, grow a pair.

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Lawandorder in Phoenix, Arizona

38 months ago

WOW!!! Your not sour and bitter?!?!?

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linda in Rancho Santa Margarita, California

38 months ago

AW in Sacramento, California said: Hi. Sorry about your Kohl's job. Do you know if they limit the amount of returns without a receipt . I've already done 4 this year under $50 each. We only pay cash and my husband usually throw the receipt away or misplace it. If there is a limit, does it say so anywhere? Thanks

If you return too many, you will get a corporate refund (a check in the mail), but you have to do a lot of returns without receipts to have it get that far.

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interested citizen in Panorama City, California

38 months ago

John in Forney, Texas said: I work for Kohls and have been there a long time, reaching the supervisor position and lead my district in external and internal apprehensions. I am a seasoned pro. I just can't stand when my company hires people and only trains them for a week and expect them to know what theyre doing. Last week they fired two of our best supervisors over a bad stop that would never have had a complaint. They didn't have a chance. Our DLPM just walked them to the guilliteine. Didn't back them up or anything. But theyll keep the people that arent producing and arent worth a flip.

Hi,
I have a friend that works for Kohls in Sacramento part time, and they give him almost no hours, sometimes 3 or 4 hours a week at $8 and hour, they keep hiring new people, instead of giving the faithful hardworkers decent hours so the present employees cannot survive on the crumbs of hours they give them. This seems to be unfair practice and very poor managment. Furthermore, many people are being fired for stupid minor mistakes, no warning, just fired.
I hear you loud and clear. If I were you, I would consider working elsewhere, where you are appreciated more.

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zajacchris

38 months ago

Is Kohl's a good place to work as LP? I recently got released from Kmart.

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upsetmother in Milford, Ohio

37 months ago

Flow in Sacramento, California said: I have been in the L.P end of retail for several years and it is very clear that the "guilliteine" is the common meathod of operations. Loss Prevention is a businesses in which you must think not once, twice, but three times before you act. The job is fun, but mistakes are not an option.

i was stopped while in my car in the parking lot by khols nd they are a joke they searched my car stole my items out my van that was presents now 2 moths later want to charge me for theft!! bull crap

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Lawandorder in Phoenix, Arizona

37 months ago

I always find these comments uch a good laugh. They always edit their story to the point of science fiction. They alway miss out the "facts to the whole case". Were they in Kohls to start with? Or were they driving through an Det. From Kohls just happen to stop them ?? Were police involved ( as I'm sure they were) ?? If the answer to eite is no, then Sue !!!!!!!!!!

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Lawandorder in Phoenix, Arizona

37 months ago

I always find these comments uch a good laugh. They always edit their story to the point of science fiction. They alway miss out the "facts to the whole case". Were they in Kohls to start with? Or were they driving through an Det. From Kohls just happen to stop them ?? Were police involved ( as I'm sure they were) ?? If the answer to eite is no, then Sue !!!!!!!!!!

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paint in Michigan

35 months ago

I find it funny when that people are appalled over being fired for breaking rules they agreed to when they took the job, you cant use kohls cash you didnt earn why is that a hard thing to understand. And seasonal people are you kidding me your seasonal...

But i do have one question maybe someone can answer. I have worked for Kohls a number of years as part-time and have no negative incidence to my record that i have ever been talk to about, no call offs, very few snow storm related late days. Basically i get the work done efficiently and i treat everyone respectfully customers especially. My worry is that i am gay and if my managers find out i want to know if it is kohls policy to fire me over it. I know in the state of michigan it is a perfectly legal practice to fire someone over sexual orientations. What i dont know and cant seem to find is Kohls policy on the issue that is very dear to me. I took the respect training videos i see that sexual orientation is technically covered by discrimination policies but i fear this is more out of a public relations play and not actually upheld. I was wondering if any one has any experiences with Kohls and this issue? I would write this asking perhaps corp but i dont trust corp to be honest with this subject and i can understand why they would lie to me if i voice a concern such as this. But i would like to hear from others with personal experience.

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Regret in Clarksville, Maryland

34 months ago

I was caught shoplifting at Kohls today for the first time. (It was over $100 and I am 19 years old.) The LP personnel took me to their office and I signed papers, gave information, and they took my picture. I was being really cooperative and so were they and I will be going back soon to give back prior stolen merchandise. (They said they saw me steal two other times.)

So I was set on paying whatever I need to pay but then a police officer showed up! She wrote down my information. And the LP supervisor and the officer talked and the LP supervisor said she will be pressing charges. So something will be coming in the mail telling me to go to court.

Now my main concern is if this will show up on my permanent record or if there's a way to prevent that. And also if there's a way to lift the ban from Kohls. I will not be shoplifting again. But I am set on never letting anyone find out about this, especially my parents and older sisters. What I'm afraid of is if I go out with one of them and they decide to go to Kohls, I would have to follow them. But then I would have to go in the store which means I'm trespassing. So is there a way to lift the ban?

Please help me. Thank you.

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Regret in Clarksville, Maryland

34 months ago

Regret in Clarksville, Maryland said: I was caught shoplifting at Kohls today for the first time. (It was over $100 and I am 19 years old.) The LP personnel took me to their office and I signed papers, gave information, and they took my picture. I was being really cooperative and so were they and I will be going back soon to give back prior stolen merchandise. (They said they saw me steal two other times.)

So I was set on paying whatever I need to pay but then a police officer showed up! She wrote down my information. And the LP supervisor and the officer talked and the LP supervisor said she will be pressing charges. So something will be coming in the mail telling me to go to court.

Now my main concern is if this will show up on my permanent record or if there's a way to prevent that. And also if there's a way to lift the ban from Kohls. I will not be shoplifting again. But I am set on never letting anyone find out about this, especially my parents and older sisters. What I'm afraid of is if I go out with one of them and they decide to go to Kohls, I would have to follow them. But then I would have to go in the store which means I'm trespassing. So is there a way to lift the ban?

Please help me. Thank you.

Also, will the police be calling my home??? She asked for my number and I gave my cell number but she also asked for my home number. After telling her my home number, I quietly mentioned it'd be best to call my cell... Will the police call my home? Or do they only call after if you don't act on something they send you in the mail?

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Imnasty in Cranbury, New Jersey

34 months ago

You'll be going to court for sure, they will drop the charges, if your not being charged with ORT, (Organized Retail Theft) you get charged with that your ****, if not, be willing to pay what you owe, (restitution) do it right there on the spot and be done with it, or have the charges on your record forever , which means goodbye to a well paying job in the future. Don't **** with your future.

Good Luck

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mralkrup in Lakewood, New Jersey

34 months ago

paint in Michigan said: I find it funny when that people are appalled over being fired for breaking rules they agreed to when they took the job, you cant use kohls cash you didnt earn why is that a hard thing to understand. And seasonal people are you kidding me your seasonal...

But i do have one question maybe someone can answer. I have worked for Kohls a number of years as part-time and have no negative incidence to my record that i have ever been talk to about, no call offs, very few snow storm related late days. Basically i get the work done efficiently and i treat everyone respectfully customers especially. My worry is that i am gay and if my managers find out i want to know if it is kohls policy to fire me over it. I know in the state of michigan it is a perfectly legal practice to fire someone over sexual orientations. What i dont know and cant seem to find is Kohls policy on the issue that is very dear to me. I took the respect training videos i see that sexual orientation is technically covered by discrimination policies but i fear this is more out of a public relations play and not actually upheld. I was wondering if any one has any experiences with Kohls and this issue? I would write this asking perhaps corp but i dont trust corp to be honest with this subject and i can understand why they would lie to me if i voice a concern such as this. But i would like to hear from others with personal experience.


I don't have personal experience I applaud you for your stance. But Kohl's is difficult and I wish you well on your journeys.......

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Lawandorder in Phoenix, Arizona

34 months ago

Are we still living in the dark ages ??? It is against the law, under discrimination, to treat, act or out right fire anybody under protection from the law. You can feel free to shout your status from the rooftops. They can't and shouldn't want to do anything to you. Be yourself. A fantastic employee.

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Imnasty in Cranbury, New Jersey

34 months ago

Paint,no worries, I work as an Armed Officer for a Secret Clearance facility with the DOD, we're always taking compliance classes, ABSOLUTLY no company can discriminate against you for you sexual orientation, absolutely no one. That said, they can come at you for your job performance, as you stated, your pretty much squared away, but they will try, I've seen it HAPPEN in the military, to that end, I would just let it go, you know how some people can be, and they'll change facts to suit to their objective. keep COPIES OF YOUR JOB EVALS, DOCUMENT ALL YOUR LATE DAYS AND TIME OFF, because if they try to **** with you for coming out and you have all your ducks in a row, you'll own the company, lol.

Good luck dude

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katie1979 in Fort Worth, Texas

33 months ago

paint in Michigan said: I find it funny when that people are appalled over being fired for breaking rules they agreed to when they took the job, you cant use kohls cash you didnt earn why is that a hard thing to understand. And seasonal people are you kidding me your seasonal...

But i do have one question maybe someone can answer. I have worked for Kohls a number of years as part-time and have no negative incidence to my record that i have ever been talk to about, no call offs, very few snow storm related late days. Basically i get the work done efficiently and i treat everyone respectfully customers especially. My worry is that i am gay and if my managers find out i want to know if it is kohls policy to fire me over it. I know in the state of michigan it is a perfectly legal practice to fire someone over sexual orientations. What i dont know and cant seem to find is Kohls policy on the issue that is very dear to me. I took the respect training videos i see that sexual orientation is technically covered by discrimination policies but i fear this is more out of a public relations play and not actually upheld. I was wondering if any one has any experiences with Kohls and this issue? I would write this asking perhaps corp but i dont trust corp to be honest with this subject and i can understand why they would lie to me if i voice a concern such as this. But i would like to hear from others with personal experience.

HUH? We had a store manager who was openly gay and married with two children...

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katie1979 in Fort Worth, Texas

33 months ago

katie1979 in Fort Worth, Texas said: HUH? We had a store manager who was openly gay and married with two children...

Oh, and she wasn't fired, she just moved to a different store...just for the record...

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Y-ello in Bellingham, Washington

32 months ago

Is LP allowed to touch the person/customer/suspect? Meaning are they allowed to forcefully grab the person especially disabled person?

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Lawandorder in Phoenix, Arizona

32 months ago

It depends on the store/companies policies. There are still a couple of companies out there that are "hands on".. If the shoplifter etc. is of a threatening behavior and the LP feels it might be a danger, yes they can grab for safety sake. The old adage stands... Don't steal !! It won't happen to you.

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Corry Lensey in Damascus, Maryland

31 months ago

TODAY WAS HUMILIATING! I went shopping at a kohls store in maryland today. I had my son, daughter, & their friend with me. When we entered Kohls my daughter picked up 3 candy bars, & i told her to put them down. I browsed.. & picked up a white short sleeve shirt, a red pair of pants, and a pair of pants & matching cap sleeve tank. I tried the items, left 2 in the fitting room kept 2 and came out! I kept shopping & then went to the bra dept! Went to try on 2 bras and came out with the same two. As I came out...I noticed a sloppy spanish girl go in the fitting room and look in the last one which i was in and then chose another..then come out 30 seconds later! Having worked in retail for 12 yrs..I know the drill the girl was checking to see if any tags or hangers were there. But I thought..noo couldnt be cause I know I've done nothing. So I price scan things in my basket and left the unwanted things the kids asked for by it & checked out with a total around 80 bucks! I head to the parking lot & a girl comes up to me saying I need to come with her shes LP! Pissed.. being a kohls customer for years.. I said " What! Look mam search the cart search me". She saw nada but the items i just bought. She then says "Well let me search your purse". I told her no & that she needed to review her tapes &go check next to the upstairs price scanner because thats were I left the 2 bras...& the downstairs fitting room is where the pants & shirt I put back are! She says no & she was calling the police & to stay..& I refused because for 1 I was not guilty and 2 I'm not going through that especially in front of my kids guest!! So driving home I realized that since I was in my moms van..they could try to mess with her..and they said they called the police department so i went there..waited & then they showed me me a photo of what they claimed missing & there was an extra tank i never touched added..& the candy bars my kid put down! The off. said he'd take my info let them know and..(conti

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Corry Lensey in Damascus, Maryland

31 months ago

if they chose to press charges I would have my day in court...but that I should have stayed and waited! Clearly this young (approx 19) LP girl..added an extra tank top and at least the candy bars my daughter put back! Honestly Im pretty sure they had to have found the stuff...and probably added the extra stuff because of the way I talked to her and my refusal to go further with the search just to be an azz cuz obviously they really think i stole!! How could she add an item I didnt even touch or pick up? WOW...really? I'm worried because even a charge convicted or not can affect you! By her ghetto behavior and the way she talked...I'm guessing she plays dirty, and I sure she found the stuff but will never admit it in fear of getting fired...or sued for a wrong and bad stop! smh...Insight and comments pllleeeaasseee!!! help

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Lawandorder in Phoenix, Arizona

31 months ago

As you said, you should have stayed and waited for the cops.. But you didn't. The proof rests on them, not you. They can say what they like and I'm sorry to say ( having been in the business of LP for 25 yrs. there are a lot of bad LP out there) with her being so young, and Kohls being so strick, she probably is scared to loose her job as it sounds like it was " a BAD STOP"..they have video, cameras etc. but fitting room cases are and have always been a sticky area. You should call thier Store Mgr, even though they don't technique work for them but District LP mgr. also call thier Head Office and simply state you were falsely stopped. Do not go into too much detail, as they will try to use everything you say in court. Stick to facts and basics only. If, and I say if you go to court ( I doubt it as it will cost them too much $$ and bad publicity, I can guarantee you they will settle out of court.

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Corry in Damascus, Maryland

31 months ago

Thanks... lesson learned. I didnt wait because all I could think about was my kids embarassment, the unfavorable story involving the police that their company would report to her parents and possible rumors and humiliation for them to follow! Also she said the stuff was in the cart..found nothing and then wanted to carry on to my purse, so I figured she had no right..and was going to far since Id taken nothing. OMG..I wonder what happens next I'm so worried.

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Lawandorder in Phoenix, Arizona

31 months ago

Another lesson to learn, if you ever get stopped by any company... You are an adult. It is against the law for them to talk to, contact or discuss this situation with anybody !!! If you had been a juvenile then they have to contact your guardian .. Period. If they contact anybody or even discuss with any employee outside of LP. You can sue. They are not even allowed to discuss or even contact your husband. You, as an adult, are responsible for your own actions.. If and when they contact you or you them, tape record the conversation. You tell them you are documenting it. This can be used as evidence. They will probably not admit any wrong doing at first as that will increase your pay off check. Do not worry, as you did nothing wrong. You might want to seek legal advice, but do not talk too much, as if you are not very articulate though either nerves or anything, you might inadvertently say the wrong thing and they will jump all over it to save face. You did not steal, and she had no legal reason to demand to search your bag. Only law enforcement can do that. The only thing they can do is ask if you have a weapon in it, and remove it from your reach. At no time is ever LP allowed to go into somebodies property. Hang in thier and stay strong. Make those phone calls I suggested and wait. It might take them a little time to seek thier legal dept advice.

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cassifur in Texas

31 months ago

MNM in Diamond Bar, California said:

It's very simple really... you shouldn't have spent it. Yeah, it was given to you, but you should have torn it up and threw it away as soon as he left. Or you should have at least given it to your manager and explained the situation before you used it. I guess what's done is done, but for future reference, and to anyone else that might ever come across this, if the person that did your orientation didn't properly explain to you what is acceptable behavior and what isn't as an employee of Kohl's, there are other people around that know the policies. Ask your managers, ask admin, ask LP. It may be tempting, but it's not worth losing your job because someone gives you a coupon and you use it. Bottom line= if you didn't earn it, you don't take it.

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vladmir in Middletown, Connecticut

29 months ago

Kohl's can't be too much different from other company's loss prevention. I worked loss prevention for a major retailer. My company's policy was hands-on. We were allowed to physically force you to come with us to our office and handcuff you if needed and in the office we placed you in a holding cell with a security camera. We were allowed to search everything you carried including purses and backpacks and were allowed to pat you down. Maybe it depends on the company, but law enforcement is not the only organization allowed to search your personal bags and physically force you into compliance with REASONABLE force. If it was illegal to physically force one to come back with them or search their belongings, my former company and I missed that memo.

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Lawandorder in Phoenix, Arizona

29 months ago

Don't tell me, you worked for Target... Any LP officer " can pat down and search belongings " for one of two reasons.. A) you suspect a weapon or B ) you know they are concealing your merchandise... Other than that, no fishing expeditions allowed..

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anela in Bronx, New York

28 months ago

I worked for Kohls for 2 months and being there sucked. The managers were 2 faced they acted one way in front of th e customers and when there were no customers they were mean. I got fired for using a $10 coupon a customer gave me! They said thats like stealing money from the company. they made me feel like a criminal. I had to sign all these papers like if I was still gonna keep my job. They said they were sending it to the corperation they sent me home and not even an hour later they call me and tell me im fired! I dont think they sent anything to a corperation. Kohls thinks there to good for anyone especially the E3's

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Barry in Ripon, California

26 months ago

excop in Independence, Kentucky said: The problem with loss prevention officers is that they are not at all police officers and do not have the power of arrest. Most are not trained enough to even make a decision based on what they have observed, or what they think they have observed. all it takes is one mistake and its law suit time. I think that instead of being hidden in the shadows and behind a camera,or questioning employees about other employees and putting on that (look at me im LP.)
Officer pressence is the best way to stop someone from steeling.
let people know you are there. observe and assist. Yea you need the folks on the cameras and your investigaters, but most of all you need to be known. If the bad guys say, I go there im going to get caught. Then you have succeeded.
Good luck and be careful. and remember it's not worth getting killed or suid over an item that the st, we are in factr just writes off.
do your job and be sure.

I agree with you that Loss Prevention Officers are not police officers, BUT what you are incorrect about is that LPO's do have powers of arrest(hence the term "in custody"). When we make an apprehension, we are in fact, placing that person under arrest. When a police officer responds to a call of a theft in custody, you are doing so under OUR direction. When you walk into a store(private property), you are now under the direction of Loss Prevention. I cannot tell you the number of times that I have asked a police officer to leave(and in a few instances, escorted them out of the store) because they did not want to follow our directions. Yes, I agree that attempting to prevent the theft is much more effective than making an apprehension, but some people just don't learn that they should leave and go find another target, so we then have no other alternative then to make the apprehension, and contact police to take custody of the subject.

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lp guy in ct in Somerville, Massachusetts

25 months ago

To everyone on here seeking advice. SPEAK TO AN ANTTORNEY. shoplifting laws vary extremely state to state and even county to county. about 80% of the advce given on here is by loss prevention staff who think they know the law but are in fact wrong. Ive worked lp at gap inc, burlington coat factory, bj wholesale, jcp and macys to name a few retailers. Macys/jcp/L&T cuffs people. Gap wont touch em.every company is different But lp can def search perseonel property. Ive worked lp in ct plus nyc and ny state. Everything from the charges to the civil demand criteria differs greatly by location. Get a lawyer. Any good one wont even charge you for the initial consoltation. I will help you if i can. I have 12 yr lp exp plus and am going to law school. If any lp personel are looking for where to go where they have the most freedom
.. Lord n Taylor. They get away with murder their, are full hands on, and can stop on almost anything, even counterfits. Def where you need to be if you want to have the most fun. :)0

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Nonserviam in Gulfport, Mississippi

24 months ago

I been looking into a LP/Fraud Investigator job the last 35 days. Because I have 7 years in recent related experience eg. skip tracing,arrest,surveillance,management,field reports,etc... I can't even get an interview for either of these two positions I just spoke of.

So ,what's the trick???

I have an insurance license as well. I thought that would have helped for the insurance industry.

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Gagrl in Lawrenceville, Georgia

21 months ago

lp guy in ct in Somerville, Massachusetts said: To everyone on here seeking advice. SPEAK TO AN ANTTORNEY. shoplifting laws vary extremely state to state and even county to county. about 80% of the advce given on here is by loss prevention staff who think they know the law but are in fact wrong. Ive worked lp at gap inc, burlington coat factory , bj wholesale, jcp and macys to name a few retailers. Macys/jcp/L&T cuffs people. Gap wont touch em.every company is different But lp can def search perseonel property. Ive worked lp in ct plus nyc and ny state. Everything from the charges to the civil demand criteria differs greatly by location. Get a lawyer. Any good one wont even charge you for the initial consoltation. I will help you if i can. I have 12 yr lp exp plus and am going to law school. If any lp personel are looking for where to go where they have the most freedom
.. Lord n Taylor. They get away with murder their, are full hands on, and can stop on almost anything, even counterfits. Def where you need to be if you want to have the most fun. :)0

I have a situation that's very emabaraasing. I shop kohls often, 42, mother of two. Kohls policy is not haggle free and no questions asked. I was due a credit. I called but never received it. I had two dresses and on lunch took them back, swapped them myself because their customer service takes forever. I put the dresses back that I wanted exchanged. The cost was like $78 and what I changed was like $60. They made money. I was approached by a thuggish lost prevention guy in a t shirt and jeans. I went back in tried to explain and he starts yelling to tell the truth. I tried but not going to be yelled at. He said I will call police. I said go ahead. I have nothin g to say. I had other items to match that didn't come from there. He discusses with the cop. I get taken to jail because I won't lie. He had me put bags and my purse on the table and never asked. I didn't steal and I am spent thousands.

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LP n La. in Covington, Louisiana

12 months ago

I have been with Kohl's for 6 yrs and your explanation of the events is at best is full of holes. We have very strict policies as far as apprehensions are concerned. Why did you deserve a credit? Called where? Why did you go directly in the store and put the dresses back on the rack? Why wouldn't you take the dresses to customer service? Where's your receipt? Since when is thuggish a t- shirt and jeans? LP wears whatever they want being that it's hard to not be noticed as a employee by thieves when your dressed like a store associate. LMAO sounds like someone made $78 mistake to me. Everything your saying just sounds like you are looking for an excuse for a mistake YOU made not the LP. There is absolutely no way you would take the dresses you bought back into the store and just return them to a rack without any proof that you purchased them. Who does that? Makes no sense if you were going to exchange them for items that cost less. What you didn't want your $18.00 back because it would take an extra 5 minutes? An honest person would have never done any of these things. I can see taking your dress back to the department if you were looking to exchange it with the EXACT same dress. But you said it was less money so the dresses were different, right? The Lp has video, yes cctv video tells the truth every time, of you doing something illegal which is the only reason the police took you to jail!! What would he look like in court if he had no proof of your wrong doing and took you to jail? Own up to your mistake and think of your kids next time you think about stealing $78 of food..oh wait a sec it was 2 dresses right? I'm sure the judge will understand you stealing to feed your kids...hold up he won't because you were stealing dresses not food. Oh yeah next time how about you not put Kohl's associates on blast when they were simply trying to keep prices down and wages up by stopping people from stealing away our raises. You may not be a crook but you tried to steal.

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MissALiTea in Las Vegas, Nevada

2 months ago

Regret in Clarksville, Maryland said: I was caught shoplifting at Kohls today for the first time. (It was over $100 and I am 19 years old.) The LP personnel took me to their office and I signed papers, gave information, and they took my picture. I was being really cooperative and so were they and I will be going back soon to give back prior stolen merchandise. (They said they saw me steal two other times.)

So I was set on paying whatever I need to pay but then a police officer showed up! She wrote down my information. And the LP supervisor and the officer talked and the LP supervisor said she will be pressing charges. So something will be coming in the mail telling me to go to court .

Now my main concern is if this will show up on my permanent record or if there's a way to prevent that. And also if there's a way to lift the ban from Kohls. I will not be shoplifting again. But I am set on never letting anyone find out about this, especially my parents and older sisters. What I'm afraid of is if I go out with one of them and they decide to go to Kohls, I would have to follow them. But then I would have to go in the store which means I'm trespassing. So is there a way to lift the ban?

Please help me. Thank you.

I see now that you wrote this along time ago? If you still check this website though, please answer my question (:. I was just wondering, when you were stealing from kohl's what did you do? How did you get caught pretty much? did you do it sneaky or stupid? did you go in the dressing room? did you just stick it in your pocket? details please (: i was just wondering because i steal all the time from kohl's and have never gotten caught (knock on wood) how did you? not to mention, they saw you two other times?! Just wondering, not trying to be rude. lol.

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