Massage Envy experiences...

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lizbtrfli in Lala land, California

61 months ago

Eric in Toronto, Ontario said: I'm curious about people's experience with Massage Envy. I hear a lot of negative comments especially with regards their pay scale. Has any therapist found working at Massage Envy to be a positive experience? Are you able to accept tips at Massage Envy? Are there other perks in working there in terms of professional development or benefits?

I just quite Massage Envy a week ago. The pay is poor...It is NOT a very theraputic enviroment. It seems to be a great business but as far as good for the therapists- not so much.
It's like a sweat shop---pumping in as much business as possible--with five mins. between clients. Your clients has to get dressed, you need to greet them with water, walk them out, change out the sheets and room, get your next client---all under five mins. or they are not pleased. God forbid you the therapist need to go to the bathroom or get a quick drink of water. Most owners are not therapist--they are business people. They have no idea what it's like to massage under those conditions, nor do they care as long as their money comes in. It is HORRIBLE to rush someone that just had a massage up and out the door--dangerous...Things like that don't matter at Massage Envy. I don't know...To me, Massage Envy takes all the beauty out of massage and it's benifits and makes it cookie cutter, corporate.

DadMike in Baltimore, Maryland

61 months ago

PBR in Vancouver, Washington said: Rolinda is dead on, JustMe. It's so sad the way MTs with independent thought processes are treated on every forum I've ever seen, not just this one.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous that our fascist government demands a license for something as harmless as massage. It's just a way to re-distribute our money to the schools and create jobs for worthless bureaucrats who can't make it in the real world producing a worthwhile product. If you have a natural talent for it and customers pay you good money, then GO FOR IT! Ignore the rest. I've never had a single person ask or care if I have a license. Licensing is a joke in most states (not so much in Canada).

I'm not saying you have sex with your clients, but it should be legal. It's none of the government's business what consenting adults do in behind closed doors.

JustMe is doing well because her rates are reasonable- 90 dollars for ninety mintues is a good a rate! That's about what I would pay, including tip, for 90 minutes at Massage Envy. If its done from her home, and she feels safe, she can make good money without doing sex.
BUT- Licenses, if done well, would be nothing but a benefit to the profession. But you should'nt be able to get one with only a few months of school. Most licensure laws aren't pushed by Govt- they are pushed by professional groups to limit the amount of practioners to keep competition down, and assure a more uniform standard. I'm a licensed social worker- and to get a license in my state is TOUGH! 4-6 YEARS of college, several years of work experience, and a test; licenses are tiered- bachelor level, entry level Masters, full clinical- and so our wages are much higher than stated that don't require a license to do social work. If massage had a tiered system, you would see wages go up for all, esp the more experienced masseuse.
Also- if done well, it would eliminate the prostitute stereotype, which hurts and endangers all masseuse.

PBR in Vancouver, Washington

61 months ago

You're right, DadMike. Licenses are necessary for fields that require a significant amount of education. That's one of the many reasons I don't think it's necessary or beneficial for massage as it stands in the US today: most massage programs are only 6 months, including mine.

Right now massage licenses ARE pushed by the government for raising revenue. Certifications - not licenses - are pushed by private industry. In all the years I've massaged not a single client has asked me about either! I've never had an inspector visit me or ask for a license, even though they're displayed prominently at all times.

This isn't the case for social workers, I know.

Oregon might eliminate the Board of Massage because it isn't generating enough revenue. That speaks volumes for the reason massage licenses are issued in the first place.

WE NEED A TIERED SYSTEM, PERIOD!

Mike in Jacksonville, Florida

61 months ago

Yep it is common knowledge. Massage Envy is the worst place to work in this city. Every therapist is just in transition. They are planning on quitting and looking for jobs. I have heard of pay as low as 7.75/hr. Now that is down right an insult. They are clearly taking advantage. Especially here in FL where people already know the true cost and know to go to a school for reduced pricing. It always kills me how 75% of this population claim to be Christians but are so evil. This is a malitious plot to use people and get rich. It has nothing to do with providing care for the masses.I hate unions but something has to be done.For those who don't think this is a problem how would you like if someone came in and ruined your field. Look what illegal immigration has done to construction.

Sheika in Greensboro, North Carolina

61 months ago

After reading the most recent of many of these posts I must say that the overall take on working at massage envy sucks. In general it's not really all that bad considering that it is one of the few places on this area that therapists have to work with at least some consistent clientele. Working independently is more difficult in this area unless you have been in the market long term. I do think however that ME could at least provide health and dental benefits. The work is demanding and with having very little te between clients makes it thatuch more so. I have been a therapist for 7 yrs now and am considering trying to find a job in another field or elsewhere, which is a challenge nowadays. I am having a frustrating week due to a slow appt book!

Laura in Dallas, Texas

61 months ago

Why I choose to work at Massage Envy, though I know that I can make far more per hr:

1) I don't have to deal with the time that it takes to run my own business.
2) I don't have to invest in advertising
3) I have strong legal protection and management to deal with clients who are inappropriate.
4) I don't have to handle phone calls or scheduling
5) I don't have to spend $ on supplies or laundry
6) I don't have to take the time to do laundry
7) I never have to cross-sell products or other services - just inform and educate about massage
8) I am *always* booked at least 90% of my available hours.

When I am not doing massage, my time is my own. I work with several other amazing therapists; we trade out massages, share techniques, & consult each other on approaches for specific client issues.

The owner of our franchise offers paid vacation to people who work full time (which he defines for a therapist as 26 or more booked hours a week - very reasonable.) He also has arranged for discounted training in techniques he needs more of his staff to do.

Yes, I make less per hour (including tips I average just under $30/hr) - but unlike independent therapists I know, I can predict to within $50 how much I will make every week.

As for greedy - I know massage therapists traditionally are not good with accounting, but I've worked on the management side as well. I can assure you that the franchises don't make as much profit as you think. They make only a dollar or two on each massage (depending on their rent and utility bills) and, like gyms, rely on people who sign up but never come in for most of their income. (If everyone who purchased a membership actually used it, Massage Envy would go out of business.)

I'd be happy to work at a spa for more money if I were allowed to work the shift-length and frequency I need (I am limited by arthritis) I never had to cross-sell, and I were guaranteed 24 *booked* hours weekly

PBR in Vancouver, Washington

61 months ago

Bravo, Laura! Most independent therapists (who aren't as honest as me!) won't admit these facts:

Independent therapists take home half of the fee after expenses.

Independent therapists work twice as many hours on the business.

Independent therapists are exposed to 100% of the business liability.

A CPA friend confirmed these facts, and they match up with my own analysis of the 5 other therapists that work in my spa.

Working at a franchise covers all of the problems and ends up paying about the same amount. The average price is $62 a massage according to the AMTA, so you'd take home $30. And work twice as many hours on the business.

The problem is employees who put up with bad owners.

What are some things you can do to improve a situation with bad owners? Any input? Any success stories?

PBR in Vancouver, Washington

61 months ago

Well, alrighty then! I'll start.

Do any of you who want a union really know what it takes to create one? Probably not. To start, you must have several hundred employees in an one geographic area and at least $10,000 to retain a lawyer and begin the paperwork. It gets worse from there.

So what are some other things you can do instead? I've only worked for myself as a massage practitioner, but I do have experience with unhappy employees in my old job. Here's what we did.

The unhappy employees got together and decided on a team leader, the employee who was most respected by the boss. Each one of us came to a meeting with a list of complaints, and 3 solutions to each complaint. It's easy to complain, not so easy to come up with a solution.

We discussed the list and narrowed it down to the Top 10 Complaints, with Top 3 Solutions to each compliant. The leader set up a meeting with the boss and asked a neutral party trained in negotiations to sit in and mediate.

Long story short, it worked. It's free and relatively simple. It holds the employer responsible without bringing in expensive lawyers and even more hostility to the mix.

What do you think?

dolores in Austin, Texas

61 months ago

I'm not sure that the info on what it takes to form a union is correct. Google "what does it take to form a union" and you will come up with a lot of union resourses you can talk to and get a definitive answer -- at least that much will not cost you!

DadMike in Baltimore, Maryland

61 months ago

The massage profession will always have problems with cost-cutting chains like Massage Envy now that the "genie is out". The only realistic solution I see- and it won't be easy-- raise credentials to get licensed; make it a minimum 4-year degree including practicum, like an RN; add more training and credentials for those that wish to get a 6-year degree or more; and form a vigorous association that will petition to enforce licensing laws; this will drastically reduce competition, make therapists rare assets to compete over, and get rid of any stigma from the hookers-who-pose-as-massage.

PBR in Vancouver, Washington

61 months ago

dolores in Austin, Texas said: I'm not sure that the info on what it takes to form a union is correct. Google "what does it take to form a union" and you will come up with a lot of union resourses you can talk to and get a definitive answer -- at least that much will not cost you!

I have in fact done the research but see that my efforts are in vain. So I'll stop now.

I see why so many before me have stopped posting.

You all are a bunch of morons at best.

skaye84 in Edwardsville, Illinois

61 months ago

PBR in Vancouver, Washington

Thank you for your productive comments (sry haven't been around to respond) I hope the other Massage Envy employees take your advice as to the unified professional manner in which to approach their owners/managers. Most Massage Envy's have already put in place a "lead therapist" position. This is a sanctioned by management representative that is meant to address therapist issues to management. Those therapist that are placed in these positions should take the responsibility seriously & make a proper representation of the true needs of their therapist. We may not immediately be able to secure more pay, but improving working conditions we CAN DO! I hope therapist can step up to the plate & empower the changes that need to occur in some of these badly run clinics. Thanks again for your positive comments!

NiceCoyote in Los Angeles, California

61 months ago

Oilylady! in Los Angeles, California said: I suffer from neck problems myself, so I know what people need when they complain about their neck. I am not afraid to get in there.

Hello OilyLady, I just love your name, and if you're in and around the Burbank area and looking for work, you might look this way. You may be pleasantly surprised. Our facility is always looking for talented Therapists.
Let me know if you're interested.

Michelle in Highland, California

61 months ago

Eric in Toronto, Ontario said: I'm curious about people's experience with Massage Envy. I hear a lot of negative comments especially with regards their pay scale. Has any therapist found working at Massage Envy to be a positive experience? Are you able to accept tips at Massage Envy? Are there other perks in working there in terms of professional development or benefits?

I worked for Massage Envy for almost a year in Southern California. I will tell you this, as a customer its great. Its a reasonable way to get a massage. As an employee, its good practice if your looking to move forward into a spa setting. Its not intended for a long term career. For how much strain you put on your body to give a massage, the pay is not even close to reasonable.Yes you keep 100% of your tips, but if the customer leaves a tip for you on their credit card it gets taxed because they add you credit card tips to your paycheck. At the location I worked at the were no health benefits, they did have Aflac Insurance but it was more of an Accident Insurance. As an employee, you can "trade" with another therapist for a massage, as long as both therapist were on their own time you could come in Massage Envy and trade massages using there supplies & tables. Often times it was hard to match schedules. You also were given a 50% discount (just for you only) if you wanted to come in and pay to get a massage. Overall, my experience with Massage Envy was the same as anyones at a job. It was stressful at times, you laughed alot at times, and there were times you wanted to tell everyone off. Hope this helps!

anon in San Diego, California

60 months ago

massagepoohbah in Toronto, Ontario said: In what way do they take advantage of MTs? What would make them a better organization?

I work at a Massage Envy in San Diego,Ca. MTs at this location are only paid per massage and are expected to do massage chores, such as laundry, on our breaks and before or after our shifts.If any MTs don't assist in getting those chores done,it counts against us in our work performance and will affect any possible pay increases.The sales people are paid per hour,but they never help with the laundry. If jobs weren't so scarce, then I definitely would be working somewhere else.I hope the labor board starts investigating Massage Envy!

sheika in High Point, North Carolina

60 months ago

anon in San Diego, California said: I work at a Massage Envy in San Diego,Ca. MTs at this location are only paid per massage and are expected to do massage chores, such as laundry, on our breaks and before or after our shifts.If any MTs don't assist in getting those chores done,it counts against us in our work performance and will affect any possible pay increases.The sales people are paid per hour,but they never help with the laundry. If jobs weren't so scarce, then I definitely would be working somewhere else.I hope the labor board starts investigating Massage Envy!

it is not legal to have to do work like "chores" when you are not paid hourly. its up to you to discretely notify the labor board if you want the abuse stopped. the massage envy that I work at if there arent appointments, we are not expected or forced to hang out in the bldg--we are free to go and often times can request that we be called if an appt comes in.

Grateful in Garland, Texas

60 months ago

Bravo to Laura. You are telling the truth, with regards to the definite advantages to working for a franchise. As a guy who has practiced since 1996, I have had difficulties generating consistent income as an ethical massage therapist in the 90's+. Massage Envy is a godsend, and the one where I work is wonderful to therapists. One has to remember to stop making generalizations about franchises and find a Massage Envy that does take care of their people. In addition, if you have never worked at a franchise, stop "envying" with prejudgements! and experience the wonderful benefits they have to offer. Massage Envy has helped me further my career as well as try out new techniques/certifications in neuromuscular therapy with my many clients who request me; they are realizing that massage is necessary for their quality of life! Practicing orthopedic and neuromuscular techniques on numerous clients have improved my skill set, palpation and confidence, as well. I not only garner CEU credits; I apply what I have learned on a daily basis on my clients. How many clients do independent therapists cultivate their technique on a daily basis? How many independent therapists focus on treatment and education to their clients rather than worrying about retention and up-selling products to get their quota for the month? My clients love the fact that I am focused on their long-term health; they love the education I provide them so that their massage sessions support their response to the daily challenges they face. I can do this, because I work enough hours weekly for insurance benefits, I have a network of therapists with whom I trade massages, the cameraderie with them results in learning new techniques, flexible hours means time for vacation and advanced massage therapy classes and certifications and TIME for SELF, and a slew of other advantages Laura had just mentioned. I have been an independent contractor, so I know what one goes through. Massage Envy is the right choice for me..

Grateful in Garland, Texas

60 months ago

anon in San Diego, California said: I work at a Massage Envy in San Diego,Ca. MTs at this location are only paid per massage and are expected to do massage chores, such as laundry, on our breaks and before or after our shifts.If any MTs don't assist in getting those chores done,it counts against us in our work performance and will affect any possible pay increases.The sales people are paid per hour,but they never help with the laundry. If jobs weren't so scarce, then I definitely would be working somewhere else.I hope the labor board starts investigating Massage Envy!

Do not work for that Massage Envy then. Just as there are many different people, remember that there are great Massage Envys that treat their people well with ethical practices.

Grateful in Garland, Texas

60 months ago

PBR in Vancouver, Washington said: Well, alrighty then! I'll start.

Do any of you who want a union really know what it takes to create one? Probably not. To start, you must have several hundred employees in an one geographic area and at least $10,000 to retain a lawyer and begin the paperwork. It gets worse from there.

So what are some other things you can do instead? I've only worked for myself as a massage practitioner, but I do have experience with unhappy employees in my old job. Here's what we did.

The unhappy employees got together and decided on a team leader, the employee who was most respected by the boss. Each one of us came to a meeting with a list of complaints, and 3 solutions to each complaint. It's easy to complain, not so easy to come up with a solution.

We discussed the list and narrowed it down to the Top 10 Complaints, with Top 3 Solutions to each compliant. The leader set up a meeting with the boss and asked a neutral party trained in negotiations to sit in and mediate.

Long story short, it worked. It's free and relatively simple. It holds the employer responsible without bringing in expensive lawyers and even more hostility to the mix.

What do you think?

I think that is a great idea PBR! at least for the meantime....however,....

If enough franchises do get greedy though, it may be necessary for MT's to form a critical mass that will try to stop the abuse. The profession often attracts peaceful and patient types, but as a certain quote goes...."Beware the fury of a patient man!" As a whole, we may have to be not only assertive, but aggressive, in promoting the progress and respect of our profession.

Gain A Wealth of Health Massage in Deltona, Florida

60 months ago

I'm a Licensed Massage Therapist and even teachers were telling us to stay away from Massage Envy because of the way they do business. I was considering working for them because there just isn't much else to choose from but after reading this forum I will have to decline. I am extremely offended that many people don't understand the labor intensive, dis-ease awareness and knowledge that is now the standard in order to become a Nationally Certified Massage Therapist and Bodyworker. The time seems short to become an LMT but the course work and the time put into training is the equivalent to a 2 year degree. I'm saddened that many think that it is just a luxury and that we should be paid as if we never went to school. As if we didn't pay for our education and we are just a day laborer. It's insulting. My $12,000 education means more than the money I put into it or the money I could make from it. Would you consider that it would take 1200 hours at 10 an hour just to pay that off. That's not including cleaning supplies, tables, chairs, stools, oils, lotions, sheets, face covers, licensing, permits, insurance. Then we can think about how to cover living expenses. The healing aspects and the toll it takes on our bodies should be taken into consideration as the average therapist lasts 2 years working 40 hours a week and if they are out of the game it's usually because they've been hurt and they don't have workers comp to fall back on. This is why the fee is set at $60 an hour on average for a basic Swedish Massage. I have no opinion of Massage Envy but I will say that $15 an hour is not worth my time as I made $13 an hour as a receptionist and could have saved myself a small fortune. Again it's not all about the money but we need it to survive and I'd prefer to put my time and energy into healing people rather than trying to figure out how to pay my light bill because I'm still not making the money I deserve because a corporation has turned my industry into a Massage Mart.

Dick weed in High Point, North Carolina

60 months ago

F?ck massage envy they don't give a f!ck about the good therapists which is why they continue to hire fresh blood although us seasoned therPists have been here all the while. I'm tired of new hires when those of us have been here a while don't have enough to keep us busy! I will most likely have to go get on food stamps because of this sh@t!

someone in Carrollton, Texas

60 months ago

I currently work for ME. I am aggressively trying to find another job doing massage. ME does not appreciate their employees and it is as many therapists have mentioned, they are GREEDY! I was at least paying my bills up until a couple of months ago when they hired several new employees. Now I am barely making it because instead of keeping us busy who have been there longer, they are booking the new hires the same as us if not more. I have several applications out but no word yet. I would love to work for a place who appreciates their employees. If anyone knows of a place please let me know.

Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia

60 months ago

Bottom line is you cannot make a living doing massage at what Massage Envy pays their workers.If you look at the amount of hours you put in to a day making the $15 an hour that comes to $90 for 6 massages.The wear and tear of 6 hours of massage on a body in a day is a lot to recover from and then have to do it again the next day with little to no break in between.Bottom line if you work somewhere without the time to recharge and the money to pay your bills you will not last long in this field.Massage Envy main goal is to get people to sign on the bottom line and join not to give a quality massage.

It all comes down to volume and the lower charges for the members allows them to make up that cost lost on a client and make it up in quantity served.If they want to improve their image it's simple.Give health insurance and I mean good health insurance no more then $30 deductible.Considering how many are part of the franchise that shouldn't be a problem to cut a deal with the insurance companies with the volume of employees you have shouldn't be a problem.The second thing a minimum of 30 minutes between massages to have time to get room ready for next client and to rest anything less and you are causing physical harm to your employee over time that could of been avoided.Your employees shouldn't receive anything less then $25 an hour and I'm talking with the full medical insurance.Bottom line is that your turn over rate is off the charts.I have heard more then a few client complain about how they were pressured into joining massage Envy and the person they liked is no longer even working there.They feel very cheated.If you truly want to get rid of your bad image change the way you do business.

sheika in High Point, North Carolina

60 months ago

someone in Carrollton, Texas said: I currently work for ME. I am aggressively trying to find another job doing massage. ME does not appreciate their employees and it is as many therapists have mentioned, they are GREEDY! I was at least paying my bills up until a couple of months ago when they hired several new employees. Now I am barely making it because instead of keeping us busy who have been there longer, they are booking the new hires the same as us if not more. I have several applications out but no word yet. I would love to work for a place who appreciates their employees. If anyone knows of a place please let me know.

yeah, I understand exactly how u feel. They are continually hiring new people at our clinic which is screwing over us that have been there a while. For the past month it has really slowed down and my checks are less because of lack of clients and the fact they keep hiring newbies. Another thing I dont understand (Poor management) is allowing people to be on the schedule during times where its been slow like on days when those of us that have been there and have always worked those hours arent staying booked!!! Im at the end of my rope here. not to mention coworkers who have slided into the sea of conplacency and dont really give a rats ass that they are being screwed and have no motivation to get out. I have been looking for a job and will probably get a non massage related job and work for myself part time for xtra $$$.

sheika in High Point, North Carolina

60 months ago

I think its time to realize that if whatever is not working and u want more, u can have more and learn to attract that which matches ur goals and vibration. sometimes experiences that we have are in contrast to what we are really meant to have, and we have to experience the contrast to be able to see what it is we dream of for ourselves.

sheika in High Point, North Carolina

60 months ago

I think its time to realize that if whatever is not working and u want more, u can have more and learn to attract that which matches ur goals and vibration. sometimes experiences that we have are in contrast to what we are really meant to have, and we have to experience the contrast to be able to see what it is we dream of for ourselves.

marthar in Kings Park, New York

60 months ago

The pay is poor.
The treatment is inconsiderate.
I was promised medical and dental insurance...
We never recieved any benefits, even a year and a half later.
No paid sick days or vacation time.
They also promised monthly opportunities for continuing education...Not one class was provided in that year and a half.
Additionally, We were told that we would be paid bonuses for having repeat customers and for having greater numbers of people sign up for their gimmick membership...
Neither I nor any of my fellow therapists have ever recieved any of these bonuses.
After working here for a few months working there I thought that I should not be a massage therapist any more.
It was depressing to be used like a tool.

DadMike in Maryland

60 months ago

I may inspire hate mail, as I have at other sites, but what ME and other chains offer is: easy to access customer satisfaction at reasonable rates for the average customer w/o serious medical concerns. Massage can be difficult to navigate- so many people are untrained, it is used as a prostitution front, the quality of training varies WIDELY- most states only require 500 hours to begin practice as an MT; there is no central referral center that I know of; you have to rely on word of mouth, lucky encounter in gym, gambling with ads hoping they are legit, etc.; spas often want 120+ around here for massage, and quality is not assured; chiropractors, same way. Falsely or not, clean upscale-looking chains in strip malls offer an appearance of safety, and the low price makes it reasonable to try it. ME and other chains have a ready supply of new grads that, for the equivalent of an associates degree, or likely far less, they can pop into their stores. And for whatever reason, MTs go there and work there- even if they don't stay long, ME not only stays in business but is expanding, and ME can feel comfortable offering even experienced people entry level pay, knowing their business model is going well. Most people going to ME just want a simple, relaxing massage- and most MTs there do it well. Other chains offering 20 per massage may be the best hope for ME not totally lowering wages; otherwise MTs as a whole are going to have to up credentials- if you Google avg. wage for Assoc. degree, about 1000 hours, it is 38,000 per year. Some college (500 hrs?) is about 36,000.

DadMike in Maryland

60 months ago

It's not a reflection on ME- it is a reflection on the lack of entry-level training that makes MT look like a less than serious profession to anyone else with a college degree, the fact that credentials aren't enforced, and the scarcity of people willing to seek massage due to stigma that keep places like ME up and running. Even my mother-in-law, who goes to an energy healer and is a holistic nurse, thought I was looking at porno when I said I was posting on a massage web site.
If MTs as a whole want to fight off chains, I strongly suggest having your professional organizations up credentials to at least a BA, and have local license boards vigorously prosecute unlicensed and illegal massage-prostitute-fronts. Otherwise, per the ads I see in Baltimore, OTs and PTs have the serious medical market cornered around here, leaving MTs to focus on casual consumer, luxury market, and the few holisitic-devoted-alt. medicine fans. And there are way too many massage ads here in City Paper and Craigs list that emphasize bra size when they advertise massage-so accessing the casual marked is risky.
Some one posted earlier that 20grand to make 24grand per year as an MT is a better investment than 95grand to make 75000 grand on an OT or PT; REALLY??? what kind of housing, transist, education, and ANYTHING else you can really afford at 24grand a year; even the math was flawed- you'd recoup the difference in educational expenses for an OT in less than 2 years!
If MTs want MT to become a well-respected, well-paid career, the profession as a whole needs to clean house and up standards. ME is a symptom of credential and educational weakness in the current MT system that allows chains to set standards of pay irregardless of MT experience or training; its not an evil in itself; even if ME goes away, look at all the copy-cat chains popping up. You have to cure the disease before the symptom will go away!!

DadMike in Maryland

60 months ago

One further idea- a large portion of professions require a new graduate to practice under the direct supervision of a fully licensed practiioner for YEARS before they can go on their own; in MD, a social worker can be a Licensed Gradaute after their MSW, but must be superivsed for 2 years at work then pass exam to become a Licensed Certified Clinical Social Worker, with big raise in pay and oppurtunity. If massage had the equivalent of a BA, then an entry-level cert, then requirement for 2 years to be supervised by an advanced-certified MT, that would really up credentials and therefore pay and respectibility. It also helps the advanced people- in social work, some people make entire careers over supervision fees for private practioners.

Nina in Lawrenceville, Georgia

60 months ago

I suppose as a owner/operator, my comments would be the same. True fact, I decided to become a massage therapist because of what massage did for me, and I wanted to become a massage therapist. $15.00 per massage is outrageous, and although right out of school, I worked for that, plus tips, but it isn't nearly enough to run a household, no benefits, etc. Under few circumstances will I work for that again. I do want to to use my experience, knowledge and training to provide stellar massages. In the end, Massage Envy is a great start for someone right out of school to get the experience. I interviewed 1 year out of school at 2 different ME, and decided not to take either job. There are much better massage studios out there to work for. The concept is great though to provide massage to the masses for a lower price, but $15.00 for a massage - don't think so.... I don't believe that making anything less than 50% is worth it. That is why many therapist market themselves and make triple or more....

KristenC in Ar in Little Rock, Arkansas

60 months ago

We are looking for CMTs in a number of areas:

MN: Albertville, Prior Lake, Champlin, and Long Lake
IL: Normal, Washington, Carlyle, and Greenville
TX: Pampa
CO: Lakewood and Westminster

(compensation $20 p/hr of massage, +$10 p/hr of massage in bonuses and 100% tips)
Massage Advantage
Let me know if you live in any of these areas and you are interested.....

fotochic97 in Dunedin, Florida

60 months ago

I worked at Massage Envy for 10 months and got tired real fast of the way we are treated. Something's gotta give there because I really believe that the business owners are making a ton of money of the blood sweat and tears of the therapists. Injuries happen often. There's so much hostility from the front staff and the manager/owner of the franchise. It's a like it or leave it environment. I quit because my "boss" (owner's daughter) started to yell at me in front of people because they screwed up my schedule once again. If you bend over backwards to help them they start taking advantage of you and use bullying tactics to keep you working your butt off. If you start getting hurt and need to cut back hours to heal, you get berated or just not scheduled massages at all in spite. This could be a worse case senario because I think my clinic was worse than the usual massage envy but they aren't far behind. They work you to the bone, spit you out when you're broken and hire someone new to replace you. Does this sound like what you went to school for?

fotochic97 in Dunedin, Florida

60 months ago

When you really look at what the members are paying and then the tips they pay out, they really aren't paying any less for a massage. They get more like a 40 minute massage realistically and pay $49 if they're a member for an hour plus 10-15 dollars in tips. That's about $65 for a 40 minute massage. Sounds like people are getting ripped off to me and they don't even know it.

fotochic97 in Dunedin, Florida

60 months ago

No amount of work at envy will get you to be able to pay any loans back. Therapists at Envy make less than the lowest percentile in the massage industry less than 10% of the average therapist. We make less than 25k per year. I did not go into massage to go back into welfare. I want to be a healer and I need to heal myself also to be able to give back. You can't let yourself run into the ground or you won't be a therapist for more than 5 years.

fotochic97 in Dunedin, Florida

60 months ago

I worked for Envy and I don't believe that they as a company should push tipping on the client, However, they make it so the therapist relies on the tip as HALF their income because they are not being adequately paid working there.

It's not right on either end and ME is doing as little as possibly to make as much money from therapist and client. Their bottom line is their focus...massage therapy isn't about a bottom line...somethings gotta give

anon in San Diego, California

60 months ago

lady luv in Atlanta, Georgia said: Massage is just as much of a profession as physical therapy. we have to have a lisence, we have to take CE classes and I had to pay $12000 to go to school which is almost as much as going to my state university for 4 years. We work very hard to help people and we're tired of being unappreciated and treated like we're less important then other practitioners. Why don't you try it. Why don't you go to school and bust your butt and give 30 massages a week and deal with people who want to soak up the benefits without giving you your just due. I have to make a living to, I have to pay my bills and take care of my health just like anyone else. If I get carpal tunnel from doing this work I need to make enough money to pay my medical expenses. DO THE WORK AND THEN JUDGE US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I went to massage therapy school in San Diego, Ca. It was $14,500.I also work for a Massage Envy;massage therapists working for Massage Envy are over-worked,not appreciated, and very underpaid.I have passed the National,but jobs are scarce.Massage Envy has made mistakes on every pay check I have received. That is a big hassle since it is very hard-earned money.I hope the economy improves, so we can have more options for openings elsewhere.

fedup in Stoughton, Massachusetts

60 months ago

agreed.... wow, look at greed...............hmmmmm.............................................

Speak Out in Alexandria, Virginia

60 months ago

Yes I would love some of the PT's I've met to do 30 DT massages a week and see that
our work in many ways is harder then theirs.I have heard more then a few clients complain that their PT don't do enough hands on work and rely more on electric stem
too much.That's not saying all PT but the one's I've have heard of.Bottom line is don't say that massage is less valuable then PT because they both have their place.I went to massage school with a PT who found out that massage was not what he expected.It all comes down to the quality of the massage school and the teachers their.Next time you want to talk down about a massage therapist then I suggest you go and do the work we do for a year then report back.

DadMike in Maryland

60 months ago

It's about credentials! 14grand is alot of money, but the avg. state school BA costs about 40,000 grand. Most states, if they have any standards, only require 500 hours of training to qualify for an MT certificate or license. BA is a min. of 2,000 hours training. OTs and PTs are paid more and taken more seriously because they have standard, accredited, legally recognized college degrees which carry respect in the medical community. Despite the training MTs can get, I really haven't heard of an accredited college degree in MT- if that came about, MTs could really up their salaries at chains and get medical jobs more easily with better pay.
This is not to diss MTs- many of you go on to get better training and are quite skilled; for a general massage I go to an MT, not a PT- but a PT has medical training far and above the average MT as part of the BASIC requirements of their degree; an MT COULD get more training, but it's optional, and there is no legally recognized title such as "Licensed Orthpaedic MT" that require that level of training for an MT- in MD, you need 1000 hours to do medical massage, vs 500 hours to do general massage, but even then a PT has 1000 hour advantage straight from school!
The salary differential and lack of respect from many members in the medical community as a serious medical treatment- my doc's opinion of massage is that it's good for general sress relief, muscle tone, and sense of well-being, but he does not view it as a serious medical treatment.
If MTs want full respect from medical community, you all should band together via prof. organizations and up the starting standard for an MT to at least a BA.

DOLORES in Austin, Texas

60 months ago

I agree with dadmike entirely. I have been a MT for 16 years and have watched the industry change (mostly go downhill). Massage training and standards are all over the place -- Good schools, bad schools, 1000 hours, 500 hours, 300 hours - no training. Our training is NOT equivalent to a collage degree. PT's and OT's have masters degrees. That is 6 years of college. Six years of classroom learning (not clinic or lab time). We have trade school degrees --- which are not considered valuable by the medical community or even the general population for the most part. I think a lot of MT's probably know as much as PT's, but then there are probably just as many who don't know anything. We need recognized degrees and standards if we expect to get respect (and decent salaries). Trade school degrees are generally associated with service industries and service industries do not get paid well. Our lack of standards and degrees have left of wide open for places like ME to get a foothold. While this forum is a great place to vent your frustration, ME is not going to go away. It is a growing business and is making money - so don't think it is going to disappear anytime soon. The only way to get the respect we deserve is to get a really strong professional organization and up our standards.

Dickca et in Greensboro, North Carolina

60 months ago

I agree totally with all the posts saying that credentials are necessary to get the
respect and pay we deserve! A bachelors degree minimum! It would put us more
in alignment with the rest of the medical profession and we would be paid properly!
That would definitely put a hurting on ME and mAke it easier for therapists to find decent
jobs with benefits! I recently interviewed at MD 's office and they didn't want to

offer me a salary plus benefits! They hired someone who is a contractor which is no better
than ME! I think for me it would be best to go to grad school and/or pursue full time emplo
ent doing something else while still doing massage indepently on the side!
As much as I would love to do this full time I haven't found a situation yet that is consistently and
abundantly supporting me!

Monica in Cleveland, Ohio

60 months ago

I agree...we need respect and more cretidation as massage therapists....I work another full-time job, and am pursuing my master's degree in Public Health...I hope to help establish more focus on the importance of Integrative Medicine, and massage therapy is the forefront. We are healers and our art will continue to become more and more appreciated and respected as integrative medicine becomes more stremlined in our healthcare communites.....we must band together as LMT's! Massage envy, screw em....we are therapists/healers....

dicka et in Greensboro, North Carolina

60 months ago

abosutely monica. we are healers and if we cant sustain ourselves properly, how does that help anyone???

dbmassage in San Diego, California

60 months ago

I don't agree that more education would increase pay. Look at all the business owners who are making money off of us, and I KNOW they don't have MBA's because they steal tips, bounce paychecks, and miscalculate my pay. People will always try to get cheap labor in any industry. Good thing that Massage therapists can take private clients and earn the money they deserve. I know my client's appreciate that they don't have to deal with an underpaid receptionist, and they are happy to know I get all the money.

Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia

60 months ago

That's true education does not always equal more pay.I know waitresses that make more then most of you out there with a MBA.I have a friend that was making great money as a nail tech.$25 50% $12.50 x 20=250+ tips can make $350 a day depending where they work.Now education is good to a point.How many right now are leaving school with $40,000-$90,000 in student loans.I just saw an article recently about these people are paying these loans off for the next 10-15 years with heavy interest.As far as more schooling for massage they offer an Associated Degree in Massage now in some schools.I myself have no desire to be associated with the medical profession as they are now.I see too many people who are simply sent away with a new prescription whenever they have any problem instead of looking to what caused it in the first place.They spend more time cover up the symptoms then finding the cause.

DadMike in Maryland

60 months ago

dbmassage in San Diego, California said: I don't agree that more education would increase pay. Look at all the business owners who are making money off of us, and I KNOW they don't have MBA's because they steal tips, bounce paychecks, and miscalculate my pay. People will always try to get cheap labor in any industry. Good thing that Massage therapists can take private clients and earn the money they deserve. I know my client's appreciate that they don't have to deal with an underpaid receptionist, and they are happy to know I get all the money.

Absolutely correct- degrees do NOT gaurentee a higher salary- but they do increase the liklihood due to the decrease in competition (less people can afford degree) and the ability to prove a standardized skill and knowledge set. To ensure the higher income, people w/o cert or license also need to be prosecuted virgously as FELONS. That is what Maryland does in my field, social work, and it makes a big difference.
It is no small thing that MT is so often, and unfairly, associated with prostitution- and the less respect a profession gets, the less you will be paid. And it makes it potentially dangerous for a private practioner- look at massage ads in Baltimore City paper; the ALL say "strictly non-sexual", even if they state bra size!- what if the customer you book really wanted something illegal and gets angry if they don't get it?
ME is able to set the standard so low, as are other chains, because the avg. salary for a person with a HS diploma and some college is about 38,000 a year- AVERAGE- which means alot are below that!! You need both business skill, practical skill, AND good credentials to maximize the potential for a good income. Credentials help even the playing field for those starting out.

DadMike in Maryland

60 months ago

Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia said: That's true education does not always equal more pay.I know waitresses that make more then most of you out there with a MBA.I have a friend that was making great money as a nail tech.$25 50% $12.50 x 20=250+ tips can make $350 a day depending where they work.Now education is good to a point.How many right now are leaving school with $40,000-$90,000 in student loans.I just saw an article recently about these people are paying these loans off for the next 10-15 years with heavy interest.As far as more schooling for massage they offer an Associated Degree in Massage now in some schools.I myself have no desire to be associated with the medical profession as they are now.I see too many people who are simply sent away with a new prescription whenever they have any problem instead of looking to what caused it in the first place.They spend more time cover up the symptoms then finding the cause.

Degree does not always = money, BUT- working conditions can greatly improve. I had 36grand in loans when I got out with my MSW, but- now paid off, I make bit less than daily salary above- (Average salary for a BA is around 50grand a year, for a Masters around 62grand, per Google); but that is rain or shine, busy or slow, plus a pension, full Blue Cross, 5 weeks of leave per year, not counting the 12 sick days I earn that accumulate w/o a cap- people can retire up to 3 years early due to saved sick leave!; no self-employment tax; and I am one of thousands of degreed employees at my department, all of whom have similar benefits and salaries; other employers offer similar packages to people with my degree- Don't knock college degrees! You can make good money, as much or more sometimes, in construction, welding, private MT practice!- I know skilled tile layers that make 100grand a year! journeymen plumbers and HVAC guys can clear 80grand a year! but if they get hurt, or get sick, they are done. And they put their bodies at risk.

DOLORES in Austin, Texas

60 months ago

DadMike in Maryland said: Degree does not always = money, BUT- working conditions can greatly improve. I had 36grand in loans when I got out with my MSW, but- now paid off, I make bit less than daily salary above- (Average salary for a BA is around 50grand a year, for a Masters around 62grand, per Google); but that is rain or shine, busy or slow, plus a pension, full Blue Cross, 5 weeks of leave per year, not counting the 12 sick days I earn that accumulate w/o a cap- people can retire up to 3 years early due to saved sick leave!; no self-employment tax; and I am one of thousands of degreed employees at my department, all of whom have similar benefits and salaries; other employers offer similar packages to people with my degree- Don't knock college degrees! You can make good money, as much or more sometimes, in construction, welding, private MT practice!- I know skilled tile layers that make 100grand a year! journeymen plumbers and HVAC guys can clear 80grand a year! but if they get hurt, or get sick, they are done. And they put their bodies at risk.

Those are good points. Yes, some hairdressers and nail techs and others make good money --- but usually not consistently. Every one I know in those professions have really great days and just as many bad days. None of the ones I know have any benefits. Most companies benefits equal 40% (or sometimes more) of a person's salary. Figure out how much it would cost you to have insurance (medical, dental, workman's comp), figure your gross salary for a year and then subtract 2 weeks vacation, 5 sick days, 6 holidays. Many companies offer matching retirement plans and other benefits. Start subtracting all that and you will find that whether you work for ME or yourself, you are not really earning what you think you are. I always wanted my practice to be professional. I wanted it to be a real business and that is how I ran it for 15 years. That meant I paid taxes on what I earned. Less money for me.

DadMike in Maryland

60 months ago

Another thought- Unions can be very helpful, too. While a degree can aid in salary, professional respect, and enforcing a set skill of knowledge, unions can step in with alot of protections. My experience with unions- not so helpful in workplace rule disputes, but helpful in ensuring you get your workman's comp if injured, and helpful in setting up good bennies to begin with. And some unions offer insurance, 401k plans, etc., for professions that have alot of free-lancers.

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