Massage Envy experiences...

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Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia

57 months ago

True and you can also like so many others with your college degree get laid off or company sold.When the last time you saw a plumber standing in unemployment line.People like you with degrees are very numerous because of all the high end jobs being laid off.If your company can pay someone else in India a 1/4 they will. Unlike skilled labor which they can't send over sea because someone has to do the hands on work.It's nice to have a degree but don't count on it to get you a job in this market since there are 500 people with your skill level looking too that were laid off.

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DOLORES in Austin, Texas

57 months ago

Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia said: True and you can also like so many others with your college degree get laid off or company sold.When the last time you saw a plumber standing in unemployment line.People like you with degrees are very numerous because of all the high end jobs being laid off.If your company can pay someone else in India a 1/4 they will. Unlike skilled labor which they can't send over sea because someone has to do the hands on work.It's nice to have a degree but don't count on it to get you a job in this market since there are 500 people with your skill level looking too that were laid off.

That's true, but those are the people that come and get massages. so as they get layed off they stop or cut way back on their massages. So we don't make any money either.

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DadMike in Maryland

57 months ago

Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia-True and you can also like so many others with your college degree get laid off or company sold.When the last time you saw a plumber standing in unemployment line.People like you with degrees are very numerous because of all the high end jobs being laid off.If your company can pay someone else in India a 1/4 they will. Unlike skilled labor which they can't send over sea because someone has to do the hands on work.It's nice to have a degree but don't count on it to get you a job in this market since there are 500 people with your skill level looking too that were laid off.

If you lose your MT job, is it better to compete with 1000 500-hr cert grads that are willing to take 15 a massage, or 150 BA in MT who insist on starting at 30 or 40?
Truth- it is CRUCIAL to pick skill-specific degree; general BA (Business, English, etc) does not = Good job; Direct-hands on is IMPORTANT- one reason I picked social work! I'm in no danger of losing my job; that's also why an MT DEGREE could be valuable.
Experienced plumbers don't lack work due to high training levels needed- in MD, they need 7,800 hours to just pass 1st tier of licensing, out of 3-4 tiers! Possible entry-level plumbers are hurting- Experienced, credentialed people drive plumber salary- based on this site, just the opposite of MT now due to chains.
Chains are ALREADY offering salaries that are consistent with average non-college income, which, sadly is poverty level. If you want to raise chain and spa and chiropractor MT salaries, one very good approach would be to raise credentials to be equal or close to PT or OT-- PTs and OTs are not unemployed, either!
The unemployment rate for college grads is bad- 9%!; the unemployment rate for non-college grads is downright riot-in-streets-scary- 22.5%!!!! It does pay to get a degree! But Obama and Congress better do something soon- economy is kicking everyone's behind!!

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Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia

57 months ago

So your a social worker.Your a better man then me.Couldn't handle the heart ache
too many sad stories.I have a degree in Police Science which could open many other doors but I really don't enjoy that work I found out. So I'll stick to the work that I feel I can make a difference. I went to a very good Massage School with very high standards in Baltimore way back in the 90's.

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dbmassage in San Diego, California

57 months ago

Yes, you'd be surprised at how many massage therapists already have college degrees. I have one in Psychology with a minor in Biology. Others I work with have Biology degrees, teaching degrees, are in acupuncture school. I even worked with a Chemical engineer.

One of the best advantages of this career is that you can treat people privately. They don't need a referral to come see you for a massage. And I am sorry, but Western medicine hasn't quite caught up with the benefits of massage therapy, and that's not all bad. The client's know the benefits, though. They will come see you whether doctors believe in it or not. They use massage for many different reasons. Some for muscular pain, others emotional stress, others maintenance.

If you are good at what you do, your client's will stick with you. They won't care about your credentials so much. Yea, that you are licensed. No matter how many credentials you have...can you get in there and do massage for sometimes up to 8 hours? Do you have the ability to connect with each client? Sure you may know all the muscle attachments, and have paper to prove it but do you have the stamina and patience to do this day in and day out. This career takes a special kind of person, and when a client finds the therapist that works best for them, they will remain loyal.

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massochic in Fort Worth, Texas

57 months ago

AMEN TO THAT!!! I worked there [until recenetly] and left because I was given an arrogant and rather condescending speech about "professionalism" based solely on the fact that I was trying to protect my hands from their crappy massage lotions that they provided us with. I had been there for a # of years and was basically suspended (mind you, NOT for breaking any laws or going against any professional code of ethics) and the speech was given to me by a member of management who, just mere days before, had made an openly sexual comment directly to me (and I quote), "I am SO jealous that you get to be rubbing on this next client of yours!" Does THAT sound like professionalism to anyone??? I don't "rub" on people, I am a LICENSED MASSAGE THERAPIST. It's all about greed and hypocrisy. The pay scale typically starts at $15 per hour + 100% of any tips you make and then each year you get another dollar added to your base pay until you cap out (I capped out at $18/hr) I just wish I could be a fly on the wall when it all comes tumbling down, LOL!!!

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massochic in Fort Worth, Texas

57 months ago

Eric in Toronto, Ontario said: I'm curious about people's experience with Massage Envy. I hear a lot of negative comments especially with regards their pay scale. Has any therapist found working at Massage Envy to be a positive experience? Are you able to accept tips at Massage Envy? Are there other perks in working there in terms of professional development or benefits?

I have been an LMT for 5+ years, working the previous 3 at ME. It was not too bad until recently. I think it has a lot to do with management. When you put someone in a position of authority who is barely old enough to be able to wipe their own rear ends, it does not make for high workplace morale, especially when they are so bloody arrogant that they think they are above the law and exempt from practicing & enforcing the code of ethics along with the rest of us by setting the example as our appointed leaders. For that very reason, I did NOT have very good experience or reason for staying and I have left. For what they pay us, it wasn't worth the effort and we had to really work a lot of hours to make anything because not everyone tips, even those who did were often very stingy. Most folks don't realize that tips are basically half our income.

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massochic in Fort Worth, Texas

57 months ago

fotochic97 in Dunedin, Florida said: When you really look at what the members are paying and then the tips they pay out, they really aren't paying any less for a massage. They get more like a 40 minute massage realistically and pay $49 if they're a member for an hour plus 10-15 dollars in tips. That's about $65 for a 40 minute massage. Sounds like people are getting ripped off to me and they don't even know it.

In FW it is typically 50 minutes of massage for $49 per month and every massage after that is $39 for 50 minutes just for that month, then the cycle starts all over the following month. Myself, I am now doing strictly housecalls (from a client base I had before I worked at ME) and by referral only. I charge $50/hr AND I work for the entire 60 minutes. So basically, they can pay me a buck more an hour, I will come to their homes (so there is no drive time for them) and they get 10 extra minutes that massage envy doesn't give. Another footnote is that massage therapists who work at massage envy and are willing to do what is listed as a 2 hour massage (except it is actually only an actual hour and 50 minutes) are not actually getting paid for the full 2 hours.In fact, they are working 10 extra minutes for free, but the massage envy franchise owner is making the money for that extra 10 minutes of "free" therapist time. Again, it is all about greed. And before I am accused of being greedy myself, I did go into this profession with the intention of being therapeutic and I enjoy what I do, however, I also realize that I could have stayed in a corporate job and make the same base pay that I am making now. Tips are not required, but, as a service industry job, they are much appreciated, especially if you have done an excellent job. Massage is a very physically strenuous job and it does take its toll even if you do not develop any of the repetitive injuries we are at risk for. Not to mention that we tend to become very warm as we are constantly moving

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massochic in Fort Worth, Texas

57 months ago

LMP in Tacoma, Washington said: Where are you so I can work for you? Not all owners are like that... Trust me!!!! I have learned that owners are all different. There are bad and good... But those bad make them all look really bad.

I agree! The ME franchise I worked for offered us NONE of this! Each one must be completely different because when any of us [at the location I worked] asked about health benefits or anything of that nature, we were basically told that we are strictly on our own with that.

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massochic in Fort Worth, Texas

57 months ago

1st time here in West Jordan, Utah said: How strange to run across this site just as I have had it with ME. 2-1/2 years feeling that I am doing a great job; until-the place got a new owner. ME has it set rules that all follow but it is the OWNERS that make or break a place. The old owners were great, I as a therapist felt valued and "taken care" of, they realized that the "back" office is just as important as the front. I was happy working there (and made more money part time then I ever did sitting behind a desk full-time). The new owner had a meeting with us when he took over, he looked at us and said; "you are a dime a dozen", and has treated us as such ever since then. They have hired so many therapist that some days there are more of us then rooms. I thought/hoped ME would be a respected place of business, you know the kind that took care of their employees and the employees took care of them. The longer you were there you got something called "sonority" but I find the negative statements here are true and it is time to move on. Union? to bad it would have to come to that and if it does I would place that blame on Massage Envy and what seems to be the nation wide way they choose to treat their therapists.
Thanks it helps to be able to vent.

You are right and how unfortunate, also, that many of the OWNERS don't even know [much less understand] the laws that govern our profession. There are a lot of LMT's out there looking for a starting point and that's terrific, but I, too, was noticing a higher turnover and they were hiring so many therapists that the rets of us who should have had "tenure" were being shoved out the door. Hours were being ripped right out from under us and I was even told recently [before I got fed up and walked away] that I could no longer work boht days of the weekend because there were newer therapists who needed to be able to have that opportunity. Many of my established clients were only available to see me on weekends

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massochic in Fort Worth, Texas

57 months ago

jpgr in somewhere, Texas said: Let me start out by saying ...I love being a massage therapist and enjoy working for Massage Envy..WE HAD... some great owners who I feel appreciated us and knew with out us (therapist) they had nothing...we now have some new owners..do not know much about them, but there is a certainly a change....At my location the CA is pushing out many talented therapist due to the lack of respect...I am finding moral is low....especially after a letter ending with "I would be pleased to povide Massage Heights a reference on your behalf"...written by our CA.
I APPRECIATE you owners and CA's out there who do treat your Therapist and front desk like humans...Please pass it on to the other owner and CA's... Remember...the simple golden rule...It works!

Lets' not forget that, just as so many companies seem to be on this bandwagon, Massage Envy "high up's" seem to be able to make up ghost "policies" on the spot even if merely to serve their own selfish and relentless purpose [which tends to be nothing more than to shove a talented, loyal and long standing therapist out the door]. It seems that gone are the days of actual written policies, one's that are clearly outlined & concisely stated in black and white and something that each therapist can understand and adhere to. Ones that, when a therapist asks to see it in writing, it can be quickly pointed out, not just responded to with, "Well, it is merely implied"! What kind of crap is THAT?!?!

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massochic in Fort Worth, Texas

57 months ago

client said: The amount of money you pay to learn your PROFESSION, i.e. massage therapy, could not possibly be as much as a 4-year university degree or what a professional PHYSICAL THERAPIST pays to learn his or her profession.

Tips are unprofessional.

Do you understand what TIPS stands for? It is actually an acronym which stands for "To Insure Proper Service". We ARE a service based industry and while it is true that "TIPS" are not a [legally]required part of the whole massage experience, they are very much appreciated. Many businesses actually pay their employess less than the minimum hourly wage [and in some parts of the country this translates to $1.45/hr] based solely on the fact that their employees are allowed to accept tips. And for many of us, that equates to roughly half our income.

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Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia

57 months ago

Well said.I agree completely.You can have all the extra diplomas you want but if you do not have the hands on skill to make them work they are useless.How many times have you seen someone with very high marks in some field who can do great in the grade department on paper but when they have to apply it well they fall short.Bottom line you have to be able to translate your skill in a practical mannerto the client with deeds and not words.Do you want the surgeon with 100 degrees under his belt or a surgeon who has done 5,000 operations with great success.Some people are good test takers and good poor doers.Others are lousy test takers but instinctively just know the right method to know what needs to be done to get the desired results.I'm good at what I do but with written test I always pass but not always with the grades I might of wanted.Bottom line some of us are hardwired a different way and just know what the body needs but not always why.Look at Edger Cayce who was able to discern a persons health problems but couldn't truly answer how but his clients got better. Some knowledge skills are within us and all the books in the world won't help some people in their given field be where they feel they should be.Why can you find two people went to the same classes and studied same material and one is hands above the other.

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DadMike in Maryland

57 months ago

Degrees don't equal skill, though extra training can improve the skills and knowledge of those that aren't "naturals"; credentials help in raising pay and working conditions for the average professional in a field; there will always be standouts that excel, and graduates that do poorly, in any field, irregardless of their education.
If the concern is that ME and other chains pay so poorly, including many spas and chiros from what I've seen, one good way to combat that is to up credentials, maybe unionize. Not everyone is skilled as an MT can be skilled as an business person- massage and business are two seperate skills!- so there will always be a need for jobs for MTs that are not self-employment based. It's much easier to up basic pay and working conditions if you can market yourself as a college-educated medical professional.
This is why OTs and PTs can expect fresh from school salaries over 40-50grand or more, and ME and similar chains offer 15 per massage. Keep in mind- I'm not saying MTs aren't skilled- I'm saying that due to the lack of legal, college level credentials IN MASSAGE- an English, etc. degree doesn't matter to ME or a chiro!- it can be very, very difficult for a non-entrepenuerial MT to get a decent wage.

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aspiringLMT in Baltimore, Maryland

57 months ago

Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia said: So your a social worker.Your a better man then me.Couldn't handle the heart ache
too many sad stories.I have a degree in Police Science which could open many other doors but I really don't enjoy that work I found out. So I'll stick to the work that I feel I can make a difference. I went to a very good Massage School with very high standards in Baltimore way back in the 90's.

Speakout, did you attend BSOM? I'm currently looking into dual licensure of massage therapy and esthetics. Baltimore School of Massage is the only center that offers both programs that I know of now, but I still have some research to do on other local schools.

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DadMike in Maryland

57 months ago

One more arugment for strong credentials:
In states w/o strong laws regarding who can practice as an MT, ANYONE can set up shop. I could purchase a table, some oils, put out an ad at a health food store and in the local alt paper, read a book on a few techniques, and charge 60 an hour out-call, under the table. There is the risk of being mistaken for prostitute front, but as a man that is less likely for me.
Would I be as good as a fully trained MT? Of course not! Could I give an inexpensive back rub, some general friedly diet and exercise tips, and give someone some quality listening- sure! And, fair or not, that is all alot of people expect.
And that's a big part of the ME-chain-salary problem. When anyone can pretend to be an MT, use the title, and do a good fascimile of MT- and you all know there is a LARGE contingent out there that does exactly that- a profession as a whole can have a hard time getting respect, and the earnings that professional respect can bring.

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Matt in Gilbert, Arizona

57 months ago

There are a lot of MEs and obviously even more MTs that work there. I'm certain the skill level and job happiness of any given MT varies so greatly it's impossible to make a statement about them all. I'll say this though, I've been visiting Phoenix, Tempe, and Gilbert Mass Envy's for years and a vast majority of the massages have been excellent.

I've gone to high end spas, most recent being MGM hotel/casino in Vegas. Those places have better experiences over all given the quality of the location itself but the actual massage is very similar in quality.

In fact, I'd take my current regular MT at ME over any other I've ever had. The ME hater theory on that would be that she is gearing up to leave at any moment and take her following with her? I'll see . . .

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Speak Out in Alexandria, Virginia

57 months ago

Yeah chances are she will be leaving if she is a a good therapist because no one worth their salt in massage is going to stay for $15 an hour.The wear and tear on the body is something you have to make sure you make enough to not over tax it and $15 an hour is not even close to make a living for the amount of hours you would have to do.So get your therapist e-mail and number and expect to see here somewhere else soon.Massage Envy is not known for worker retention.

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skaye84 in Edwardsville, Illinois

57 months ago

Speak Out in Alexandria, Virginia said: Yeah chances are she will be leaving if she is a a good therapist because no one worth their salt in massage is going to stay for $15 an hour.The wear and tear on the body is something you have to make sure you make enough to not over tax it and $15 an hour is not even close to make a living for the amount of hours you would have to do.So get your therapist e-mail and number and expect to see here somewhere else soon.Massage Envy is not known for worker retention.

I haven't responded in a while...but now you went & got insulting. Again as a M.E. therapist for the past 4+ years, I am a exception to what you would put forth as the rule. I have a very good education & 7 years of experience. I have a steady client base that would attest to my skill level. Massage therapist have the power to make M.E. a good employer. If we would approach management in a professional united manner, the working conditions can be drastically improved. As already established the quality of the work environment is VERY dependent on the owners & managers of each individual clinic. However, there are several avenues for therapist to have their concerns heard. Unfortunately, if not stated through the proper channels nothing will ever change. However, I am bound to correct your statement that "any therapist worth their salt" would not work for M.E. We are here to serve our clients just as independent contractors have done for years. I just don't want the risk of running my own business. (unlike independent contractors I'm guaranteed a paycheck every 2 wks & there is little variance as to how much is on that check) That does not make me less of a healer!! It is an honor to serve a broader demographic of the public who now have access to massage's healing benefits. & I don't have to constantly be worrying about $ which seems to be the primary concern of independent therapists.

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Amy in Portland, Oregon

57 months ago

client said: Hi. I am glad I found this forum.

I have limited financial resources (otherwise I would go to a deluxe spa which includes many amenities far and above the actual massage), but if I feel any pressure whatsoever to tip in addition to paying a membership fee, then I simply will not join Massage Envy.

I am shocked and disappointed to learn that a membership-based entity would even permit you to accept tips, let alone encourage them

Massage therapists work very hard, and when we are paid at most maybe 17 dollars for an hour massage (and are physically unable to work 40 hours a week) the tip really helps us pay our bills. Not to mention the physical ailments that come from giving the massage. I love my job, but if I didn't recieve tips I would be making less that minimum wage.

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Speak Out in Alexandria, Virginia

57 months ago

Feel free to get more credentials if you like but I for one have no desire to part
of the medical profession in the manner it is run.I see more harm then good with
drugs being the main push for any problem that comes before them. I do not wish to be part of the medical insurance plans that pay very little for our hard work.I know many Chiropractors and other professions who are opting out of the insurance
payment system.The many Rolfers I know would have nothing to do with the insurance companies.You people who want to be more intertwined with the medical field feel free but I want to be left out.If you want a separate field for just medical massage I have no problem with that just like most doctors will specialize in a specific field of study you can go to work in the hospitals if you wish but leave those of us who choose to stay in the Spa's and gyms to what we feel comfortable in.I see more and more doctors I know leave the field because the are sick of the way they have to practice medicine with pills and not the true healing of having the body helped along to heal itself.

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dbmassage in San Diego, California

57 months ago

I agree with being separate from the medical field. I went to school with a physical therapist who was getting a massage license because by the time she completed all the paperwork required for the insurance companies, she felt it wasn't worth the pay. So she was in massage therapy school of all places. She once said to our class to be very careful, and try your best to not take insurance.

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Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia

57 months ago

Yep I had a PT and a Sports Doctor said she was tired of dealing with all the insurance run around.I ask her but you make so much more as a doctor and she said she was tired of all the extra work work involved with getting paid which can take weeks to month's.So I'll say it again if any of you want the extra education to work in medical field that fine just leave the rest of us out of it.

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DOLORES in Austin, Texas

57 months ago

I dont think getting a degree necessarily has to make us part of the medical community. What it would do is provide uniformity in our knowledge, more respect as a profession, and better pay.

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DadMike in Maryland

57 months ago

Insurance is a DRAG! You need to be part of a big group that has a whole billing department to benefit from it. As a private practioner it SUCKS! Social workers can't do private practice anymore unless they refuse insurance, too. But they still do therapy in groups and hospitals.
But- to dismiss Western med as whole is just as judgemental as to dismiss alternative med as whole- If I'm infected, I want antibiotics! acupuncture, massage, herbs have their place alongside pills and surgery; avg. life expecetency has increased from about 60s in 1940s to 80s now- that is Western medicine, y'all! And a good Western dr. will acknowledge exercise, nutrition, and other holisitic and preventive approaches as well as pills and surgeries.
State of MD does have 2-tiered system- 500 hrs to be spa/back rub type MT, 1000 hours to work in medical practice. So MTs could have a tiered system as suggested.
Keep in mind: AA degree (abt. 1000 hours) is still to little to be taken as a serious medical profession; even a BA is on the low end, but equivalent to full-trained nurses; RNs can go for 2yrs, but have a hard time with respect and jobs thereafter.
If MTs are OK with being viewed as luxury service w/tips for rich women at spas, occasional treatment fo New-age flakes, and fronts for prostitution- and, really, if you're serious you know that is the predominant view of the industry by public- by all means keep credentials low! That is why ME thrives at paying only 15 per massage- if some rich chick can get a massage for 120 bucks at some hair/nail salon spa, why can't a working stiff like me get one for 60 at ME!? And that's the thinking that keeps ME and other chain in business, and starting MT salaries so low.
If MTs want to be seen as serious medical professionals- up your credentials!
PS- PTs usually work in group practice and start at min of 45grand a year; avg. salary 60-70grand per year; that PT must not of done research to think they would go into private practice!

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DadMike in Maryland

57 months ago

Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia said: Well said.I agree completely.You can have all the extra diplomas you want but if you do not have the hands on skill to make them work they are useless.How many times have you seen someone with very high marks in some field who can do great in the grade department on paper but when they have to apply it well they fall short.Bottom line you have to be able to translate your skill in a practical mannerto the client with deeds and not words.Do you want the surgeon with 100 degrees under his belt or a surgeon who has done 5,000 operations with great success.Some people are good test takers and good poor doers.Others are lousy test takers but instinctively just know the right method to know what needs to be done to get the desired results.I'm good at what I do but with written test I always pass but not always with the grades I might of wanted.Bottom line some of us are hardwired a different way and just know what the body needs but not always why.Look at Edger Cayce who was able to discern a persons health problems but couldn't truly answer how but his clients got better. Some knowledge skills are within us and all the books in the world won't help some people in their given field be where they feel they should be.Why can you find two people went to the same classes and studied same material and one is hands above the other.

One quick observation- how many of you want surgery from someone WITHOUT a degree of license????

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Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia

57 months ago

First I said if you can read so you want the doctor with a 100 degrees not no degree.I have met many doctors with many degrees but that does not make them a good doctor.It just mean that are a good test takers.I have met doctors from schools who were not considered of the highest compared to like shall we say Harvard but when they came into an operating room they were hands above people who went to a school such as Harvard,Yale or Oxford.The point I was trying to make and you must of missed it was you can have an education but the education in of itself does not always equal quality of service.You could have two doctors one from Harvard one from Maryland University.The one from Maryland may have an instinct as to what needs to be done while the other doctor follows A-Z and missed the mark.Like I said education is helpful but it just shows ability to learn.Education is always good to have but don't think the more education the better it will make you.If you don't have the the hands on still you don't have it.Some doctors are great teachers but lousy surgeons.So do you want the guy who is a great test takers with many extra degrees but he is a lousy surgeon because he just doesn't have the touch as someone with a degree as a doctor but not as many diploma's on his wall.So I put this to you ,"those who can do those who can't teach and those who can't teach administrate", as the old saying goes.Now remember this is an old saying it does not means this is true all the time but in many areas it can be held to come true on more then a few times.If you want to be part of the medical field feel free to do so but as I said do not drag the rest of us in there with you.I can not say this strongly enough once you are part of the medical field you are going to have to go through all their red take on a daily basis.More then a few therapist have told me of working for hospitals and all the red take that goes with it and have left.

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Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia

57 months ago

First I said if you can read so you want the doctor with a 100 degrees not no degree.I have met many doctors with many degrees but that does not make them a good doctor.It just mean that are a good test takers.I have met doctors from schools who were not considered of the highest compared to like shall we say Harvard but when they came into an operating room they were hands above people who went to a school such as Harvard,Yale or Oxford.The point I was trying to make and you must of missed it was you can have an education but the education in of itself does not always equal quality of service.You could have two doctors one from Harvard one from Maryland University.The one from Maryland may have an instinct as to what needs to be done while the other doctor follows A-Z and missed the mark.Like I said education is helpful but it just shows ability to learn.Education is always good to have but don't think the more education the better it will make you.If you don't have the the hands on still you don't have it.Some doctors are great teachers but lousy surgeons.So do you want the guy who is a great test takers with many extra degrees but he is a lousy surgeon because he just doesn't have the touch as someone with a degree as a doctor but not as many diploma's on his wall.So I put this to you ,"those who can do those who can't teach and those who can't teach administrate", as the old saying goes.Now remember this is an old saying it does not means this is true all the time but in many areas it can be held to come true on more then a few times.If you want to be part of the medical field feel free to do so but as I said do not drag the rest of us in there with you.I can not say this strongly enough once you are part of the medical field you are going to have to go through all their red take on a daily basis.More then a few therapist have told me of working for hospitals and all the red take that goes with it and have left.

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skaye84 in Edwardsville, Illinois

57 months ago

DOLORES in Austin, Texas said: I dont think getting a degree necessarily has to make us part of the medical community. What it would do is provide uniformity in our knowledge, more respect as a profession, and better pay.

I absolutely agree that the education required needs to be raised. However, the lack of uniformity comes from the missing accreditations. Every school is calling their programs something different. In our area, Sanford Brown (a technical school NOT a massage school) is now offering an "Associates Degree" at an outrageous price tag under the advertisement of providing a "real" degree. However the curriculum is FAR below that of the actual massage schools in the area. Therefore S.B. graduates "real" degree is a joke to the rest of us, who based upon their students performance in the work field know beyond the shadow of a doubt that they're education means NOTHING because it came from people & an institution that lack the knowledge & experience in our field. We need to raise the bar on the quality of instructors & program directors as well as the number of hours required for basic entry into our field. When i first graduated, the entire massage field was on the front lines of legislation pushing for licensing in every state. Now we have achieved 500 hrs in most states. Good for us...but why have we become complacent? How do we resume the push to legislate a higher requirement? As therapist, we control the destiny of our profession if only we could stop whimpering & fighting w/ each other about the details.

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DadMike in Maryland

57 months ago

I fully agree with Dolores, Skaye84, and even what SpeakOut is saying, too. From a consumer standpoint, I would benefit dramatically from knowing that in general every MT would have a certain pool of knowledge and supervised practice, and that the knowledge met a national accredited standard, and unlicensed people were prosecuted. Then, I could talk about going for a massage with my co-workers or family, I would not have to explain "It's legit! It's a chain in a strip mall, for goodness sakes!" like I do now.
SpeakOut is right in that not every MT will want to be a medical practioner, and for people such as myself w/o medical issues, as many MT customers are, having the choice between a lower-level certified spa MT and a higher-level certified medical MT would make a lot of sense. Having education does not equal skill- people still have to shop around for MDs and other services- but at least there is SOME standard so that a consumer can have some assurance of legitimacy.
And boosting entry-level credentials all around tends to raise salaries and respect- it imparts more skill to those that are not naturally talented, and eliminates over-competition- not as many people can enter field due to increased commitment of time and expense.
As a way to reduce conflict- in my State when credentials are increased for my profession, they allowed existing professionals to "grandfather" in; when my state started to license addictions counselors, all existing social workers and psychologists with a certain number of years of experience were allowed to pay a fee to "grandfather" into the new license for a period of a year w/o the exam or specialized training new entrants were required to have.

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DOLORES in Austin, Texas

57 months ago

I worked for a massage school in CO for awhile. They saturated TV with ads and a good number of the students came from low paying retail positions. They saw massage as a way to make a great living with very little effort (as promised in the commercials). They got out, worked at ME for a year or so, and then quit the industry. They paid $14K for a degree that was now useless and many of them still owed. So what could they do now - only go back to low paying retail jobs. It is obvious that a degree does not impart hands on skill. That is true in any profession. What it would do is eliminate a lot of people who really aren't suited for the profession, provide us with respect and the ability to earn a good living.

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DOLORES in Austin, Texas

57 months ago

I know very few therapists that are really making a good living. Those working for chains like ME don't seem satisfied (as evidenced by this forum). Not everyone has good entrepreneurial skills. How many of those working on their own are really making a good living and not at least partially being supported by a spouse or partner? Are they including the cost of benefits? Take whatever you are making and then subtract 40% (the average cost of benefits) and that is your real salary. Are they paying taxes or working under the table? If you aren't paying taxes then you aren't paying into social security. That may not seem important now, but we all get old, and when you do, you won't have any retirement. There seems to be a lot of debate about how we should be able to make a good living without a degree - but I think the evidence shows that the majority don't. I don't want to be part of the medical community, but I want even less to be a low paid, not respected, service industry employee. I don't think a degree means we have to become part of the medical community. It helps raise our pay, get us benefits, and respect. It legitimizes our career, keeps out the prostitutes, and provides us with growth opportunites. It keeps us from being exploited by chains like ME.

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DadMike in Maryland

57 months ago

DOLORES in Austin, Texas said: I know very few therapists that are really making a good living. Those working for chains like ME don't seem satisfied (as evidenced by this forum). Not everyone has good entrepreneurial skills. How many of those working on their own are really making a good living and not at least partially being supported by a spouse or partner? Are they including the cost of benefits? Take whatever you are making and then subtract 40% (the average cost of benefits) and that is your real salary. Are they paying taxes or working under the table? If you aren't paying taxes then you aren't paying into social security. That may not seem important now, but we all get old, and when you do, you won't have any retirement. There seems to be a lot of debate about how we should be able to make a good living without a degree - but I think the evidence shows that the majority don't. I don't want to be part of the medical community, but I want even less to be a low paid, not respected, service industry employee. I don't think a degree means we have to become part of the medical community. It helps raise our pay, get us benefits, and respect. It legitimizes our career, keeps out the prostitutes, and provides us with growth opportunites. It keeps us from being exploited by chains like ME.

And it would improve the customer experience tremendously! It would make finding a competent, legit MT so much easier- I take no joy in knowing that my MT at ME may be underpaid; but I've had such bad experiences, and expensive bad experiences, in looking for MTs- including surprise hooker at seemingly legit spa- horrible experience!- that I'm really too worn out and scared to shop around. If national accreditation occurred in the industry- it would be a blessing to both customer and MT all around!! And I would feel far more confident to explore different MTs again.

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DOLORES in Austin, Texas

57 months ago

I have a friend who went for a massage in an unlicensed state and the (supposed) therapist rubbed her back for about 5 minutes then got out a hand held massager (the kind you buy at Walgreens for $29.95) and used it for the rest of the massage. She got charged $60 for this experience! It took a lot of effort to convince her to try massage again.

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DOLORES in Austin, Texas

57 months ago

Massage school instructors make $50-60K a year, with great benefits. School recruiters make even more. When recruiters are making this kind of salary and getting big bonuses for filling quotas they probably don't have a lot of concern as to whether the applicant is really suited for a career in massage. Real degrees in massage would cut out all the unscrupulous schools that also exploiting therapists.

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DadMike in Maryland

57 months ago

DOLORES in Austin, Texas said: Massage school instructors make $50-60K a year, with great benefits. School recruiters make even more. When recruiters are making this kind of salary and getting big bonuses for filling quotas they probably don't have a lot of concern as to whether the applicant is really suited for a career in massage. Real degrees in massage would cut out all the unscrupulous schools that also exploiting therapists.

I fully agree! Sadly, many MTs take great offense to these ideas...I'm really not sure why...if you've checked some other Indeed sites about Massage Envy, it's gotten quite wacky. The real reason ME can pay so little is profit-minded non-accredited schools that crank out MT grads with false promises and questionable training- maybe really good, maybe bad- without national accreditation, who knows? I wish you the best of luck in pushing these ideas-- I'm not an MT, I'm a social worker, another misunderstood and underpaid profession!. I truly despise fly-by-night non-accredited schools that will take your 10-20grand and really give you very little to nothing in return! There is nothing lower than taking advantage of people that want to better themselves.

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nationally certified 10-yr exp MT in Pittstown, New Jersey

57 months ago

client said: Hi. I am glad I found this forum.

I have limited financial resources (otherwise I would go to a deluxe spa which includes many amenities far and above the actual massage), but if I feel any pressure whatsoever to tip in addition to paying a membership fee, then I simply will not join Massage Envy.

I am shocked and disappointed to learn that a membership-based entity would even permit you to accept tips, let alone encourage them

You have GOT to be KIDDING me.
"Limited financial resources" or not, tipping is NEVER a "bad" thing.
Do you tip when you eat out?
Do you tip when you get your hair cut, nails done, etc?

If not, then you are an ignorant person!

Tipping is SEPARATE from any salary the person may or may not receive.

Did you know that if there are no people in the appointment book that the therapist does NOT get paid?

If you have "limited resources", then save up a bit to make sure you have 15-20% of the service price reserved for a tip.

It's only common courtesy. Period.

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nationally certified 10-yr exp MT in Pittstown, New Jersey

57 months ago

client said: The amount of money you pay to learn your PROFESSION, i.e. massage therapy, could not possibly be as much as a 4-year university degree or what a professional PHYSICAL THERAPIST pays to learn his or her profession.

Tips are unprofessional.

I had over 700 hours of instruction in anatomy, physiology, technique, and clinic, plus over 50 hours of continuing education - per year. I have worked with chiropractors as well as salons/spas.

DO NOT COMPARE a physical therapist to a massage therapist.
I think PHYSICAL THERAPISTS are hacks.
Why would you push/exercise an injured muscle to "heal" it? Duh.

A colleague of mine was a physical therapist until she saw the ridiculousness of it and became a nationally certified massage therapist.

There is no place where tips should be inappropriate - except in a hospital on your death bed. Tipping is a form of gratitude and respect for a job well done, and should be thought of as such.

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DadMike in Maryland

57 months ago

If I'm injured, I want a PT, as they are more holistic in a MEDICAL way- stretches, exercises, massage, referral to MD for meds, training to read x-rays and MRIs correctly, ability to notice potentially fatal blood clots, etc.
If I'm generally sore, have a pulled muscle, generally need to replenish my energy, I will see an MT- NOT a PT. PTs are trained for one thing, MTs another.
1000 hours or less of training, wide variety of quality- no national accreditation!, MTs cannot currently make serious claim to be medical practioners- never will, unless the credentials are raised. I know MTs go on for more training, but they are held back by the lack of national accreditation; that's why ME offers 15 per massage irregardless of amount of training or experience.
As a social worker, I needed 3000 hours of training at accredited universities, then an exam to practice supervised, then 2 full-time working years of supervision by a psychiatrist or clinical social worker- 40 hours a week, 52 a year, minus 2 for vacation- 4000 additional hours, then another exam- then I could be a full clinical social worker. Total training- 7000 hours, including a BA and MSW, and 2 separate license exams.
700 hours is a good start, and I'm sure it was expensive, 10-15 grand; but my social work ed cost 40,000 grand in tuition alone at State schools, and that was 20 years ago. 700 hours in only a start if you want respect from other medical professionals, and you won't earn respect by bashing another profession. And EVERY profession needs CEUs.
People that pretend MT is more than it is, and pretend that the ed is adequate for medical practice, cause great harm to the profession by sapping support for the upping of credentials. If MTs want to go mainstream and up salaries, the whole hippie-prostitute-New Agey/luxury spa service image has to change- and that means upping credentials!
PS- People should tip- MTs deserve it; I always tip 20% or more!!

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nationally certified 10-yr exp MT in Pittstown, New Jersey

57 months ago

Used & Abused MT in Westminster, Maryland said: Speaking of AMTA; I just recently have been enlightened to the fact that Massage Envy among other scoundrals were at the AMTA conference in Middleboro last week!!!! AMTA welcomes these greedy, disrespectful, unconcious people to set up; employ; and advertise at their yearly conference???????? I personally...among other MT's are canceling our insurance through AMTA pronto!!!!!!!!

Check out ABMP/ASCP for your insurance. =)

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fed up in Stoughton, Massachusetts

57 months ago

dadmike,
The last thing I would have for my injuries is a PT. Now I'm not knocking the profession here, but... PT's are overworked. The last place I went to there was one PT seeing 15 patients an hour. Granted there were 3 PTA's under her, but I had to beg her to give my back a massage, which she did for 3 min. I had a bulging disk @ L4/L5. I was sent by a physician. He wanted to give me oxycontin for the pain, and Flexerall for tight muscles. I was given electrical stimulation by the PT(A). Also exercise to strengthen the back muscles. This increased the tightness of the muscles after a while (I went for 4 months). If I took all the medicine the doc gave me, I'd probably be a heroin addict by now.

Another time I went to the Doc for pain in my shoulder, I was referred to a PT for eval. He saw me performed some tests and was given electrical stim, and exercise. This lasted for 6 months. There was no change. Soooo I went back to the doc and was sent to a sports medicine doc. He took an x-ray and found out I had arthritis in my shoulder.

I will NEVER go to another PT again. IMHO they're useless!

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fed up in Stoughton, Massachusetts

57 months ago

nationally certified 10-yr exp MT in Pittstown, New Jersey said: Check out ABMP/ASCP for your insurance. =)

Friend, unfortunately they've all sold out to the franchises. I have ABMP and I work at an ME. I get $50 off my annual membership.
On another note, I did take that insurance because they cover hot stone and massage cupping with no extra rider! See, I'm one of those LMT's that have a state license and years of experience and continually go to school. Oh, yeah, I'm also one of those hippie, new age yoga teachers too....

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DadMike in Maryland

57 months ago

fed up in Stoughton, Massachusetts said: dadmike,
The last thing I would have for my injuries is a PT. Now I'm not knocking the profession here, but... PT's are overworked. The last place I went to there was one PT seeing 15 patients an hour. Granted there were 3 PTA's under her, but I had to beg her to give my back a massage, which she did for 3 min. I had a bulging disk @ L4/L5. I was sent by a physician. He wanted to give me oxycontin for the pain, and Flexerall for tight muscles. I was given electrical stimulation by the PT(A). Also exercise to strengthen the back muscles. This increased the tightness of the muscles after a while (I went for 4 months). If I took all the medicine the doc gave me, I'd probably be a heroin addict by now.

Another time I went to the Doc for pain in my shoulder, I was referred to a PT for eval. He saw me performed some tests and was given electrical stim, and exercise. This lasted for 6 months. There was no change. Soooo I went back to the doc and was sent to a sports medicine doc. He took an x-ray and found out I had arthritis in my shoulder.

I will NEVER go to another PT again. IMHO they're useless!

Honestly, if I was injured, I would start with a doc, too. Many PTs are good, many are not! But notice you never mentioned "MT"..and maybe if MTs had more training, they could compete directly with PTs, and an medically trained and certified MT may have caught on to the arthritis and bulging disc problem. It would be NICE to have a competitive profession- if injured now, I would still go to doc and see PT if recommended, as most PTs are more firmly connected to the medical system- which is the system that gave you proper treatment. If more MTs were connected that way, my doc would probably recommend them.

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fed up in Stoughton, Massachusetts

57 months ago

DadMike,
I did go to the Doc first (that's the only way my insurance would pay for the pt), they're the ones that sent me to the PT's in the first place. In the second instance, I had to go back to the doc to ask him to send me to someone else.
In either case I did not have the choice to go to an MT. It was either PT or nothing. Hey, all I wanted to do was to get better.
Still not any better and the first incident was in 1987.

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Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia

57 months ago

Glad to hear there some of us still out there.I graduate in the 90's so I know what you mean.The atmosphere of doing massage for healing has been replaced with these companies just looking to make massage a franchise like a McDonald's.

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Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia

57 months ago

Hey look into PRP-Platelet Rich Plasma for your shoulder.It may help.Been around since the 70's in dentistry now many people are getting PRP shots to help with many ligament and tendon damage instead of running into surgery.I believe a few Chicago football players use it for a bad shoulder and one for bad knee and are now playing again.Look into it and see if they can help with your shoulder problem.A friend had 5 shots on his knee which use to buckle on him even after he had the ACL repaired 10 years ago and now he has now problems.I hope this help .

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fed up in Stoughton, Massachusetts

57 months ago

Speak out,
Thank you! I will look into that, for sure. Have an awesome day!

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jpgr in Houston, Texas

57 months ago

Are any Massage Envy's open on the 4th of July?

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DadMike in Maryland

57 months ago

fed up in Stoughton, Massachusetts said: DadMike,
I did go to the Doc first (that's the only way my insurance would pay for the pt), they're the ones that sent me to the PT's in the first place. In the second instance, I had to go back to the doc to ask him to send me to someone else.
In either case I did not have the choice to go to an MT. It was either PT or nothing. Hey, all I wanted to do was to get better.
Still not any better and the first incident was in 1987.

That's why MTs need to up credentials- so docs WILL refer to MTs! And not to say PTs are bad- my wife has had excellent experiences with PTs for a chronic back condition- but I've heard bad stories, too. Just as with everything else, no one approach can cure everything!
Sadly, some things have no cure- sorry to hear you're still hurting, and hope that something will be found for you.

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dbmassage in San Diego, California

57 months ago

OK, so I am related to a recently retired doctor and a nurse, and they both admit there is a problem even with medical education. Even MD's don't receive adequate training in muscle injury, nutrition repair, and in alternative education. One of my client's is currently in medical school, and is going to practice OBGYN. I volunteer at the same hospital she is doing her residency as a doula. There is a big difference between the medical floor and the midwife floor in how patients are cared for. My client is trying to learn how the midwives approach patient care/birthing because she doesn't really feel she is getting an adequate picture of how things can be done. There is something that is taken away somehow when everything becomes so medical. I am not saying that medicine is bad. I think the approach to patient care should be addressed. Not everyone responds to every medical treatment well. That is why people seek out alternative treatments. Medical schools need to implement more training in muscle injury/repair, nutrition, and alternative ways of healing.

Also it is only recently that drug companies started running tests to find adequate dosages for women. Prior to this it was assumed that women and men both receive the same dosages, when it is obvious that we have different levels of things like hormones, and could possibly respond differently to medication.

So, I have jumbled information here, but my main point is that all medical fields are in need of reevaluating their education, and that none of us should be so narrow minded to think that we can heal a person with just our hands. It is important for us to refer out and encourage our client's to never stop searching for what makes them feel better. For some it is PT, others acupuncture, others MT, others a muscle relaxer.

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