Massage Envy experiences...

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lola in Gorham, Maine

50 months ago

WELL SAID! We work our butts off and pay a lot on education, insurace and continuing education just to keep licensed. What is wrong with people. EIGHT DOLLARS AN HOUR! Are you kidding me? It's not even like you can work in 40 massages a week!

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lola in Gorham, Maine

50 months ago

Hank in Phoenix, Arizona said: Oh please stop deluding yourself! Massage therapist is not a medical profession at all. Anyone off the street can oil up their hands and brush against a scrote.

I bet you couldn't pay someone to "rub your scrote"

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Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia

50 months ago

Very true.Don't forget JUST MASSAGE that is another cookie cutter massage place.

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Speak out in Alexandria, Virginia

50 months ago

Excuse me but the school I went too had a more in depth class on anatomy and physiology far beyond many of the schools for nursing I've seen.We had a nurse of 30 years experience that gave these classes and most of the other nurses in my class didn't know half of what we were learning.So excuse you for lumping all the massage schools that you must of personally gone to and reviewed their class material to make such a general statement as you just did.I have known more then a few massage therapist and Rolfers that would be able to fit in with ease in many of what you call Medical personal.So please do not lump all therapist into one small group who don't get the same training because of some bad schools out there.There are many massage therapist more then qualified to work in any number of medical fields.

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MT'S AGAINST ME in Bradley Beach, New Jersey

50 months ago

Hank in Phoenix, Arizona said: Oh please stop deluding yourself! Massage therapist is not a medical profession at all. Anyone off the street can oil up their hands and brush against a scrote.

hank, completely uncalled for. yeah, those people are called prostitutes. we who take our profession seriously and spend thousands of dollars for c.e. courses, will find what you wrote utterly shameful.

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Jules in Lake Villa, Illinois

50 months ago

MEGAN in Hingham, Massachusetts said: mASSAGE ENVY THERAPISTS WORK JUST AS HARD AS ANY THERAPISTS AT ANY OTHER SPA....THE MEMBERSHIP FEES ARE SUCH A GREAT DEAL, THAT YOU SHOULD MORE APPRECIATIVE AND LEAVE A GOOD TIP, DO YOU TIP A GREAT HAIRDRESSER, A GREAT SERVER AT A RESTAURANT???

I love clinical deep tissue and all aspects of meticulous work as far as I can go medically without being an MD or even a PT. With that statement said I wouldnt even stick my hand out for a tip like I just washed your car if I was paid appropriately. Tips are not part of the medical profession, and take a away from the fact that we should be.....

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Speak Out in Alexandria, Virginia

50 months ago

First of in the medical field they are charging way above what they should simply because they believe they have to to get the amount they really want because the insurance companies want to reimburse at such a low percentage.So if I saw a doctor for 5 minutes after waiting 2 hours for him to see me then on top get a bill for $500.Do you really feel you got your moneys worth.The medical field is about profit regardless of the true cost of the treatments.Now the wear and tear on a massage therapist is a lot over time.It's like a football player you can only take so much physical abuse until you can't work any more.So tipping is a show that your work was above and beyond what the client expected.ME tries to make it into a cookie cutter operation which means you are rush to do your work and get as many bodies on the table per day as possible at the cost of the massage therapist health.As far as the membership fees for lower cost massage it's just a joke.They try to push off to other therapist so you won't expect to see your favorite therapist.They know that most leave within a few months but the reason many sign up because they found someone they really liked and expect that person to remain there when they signed up.If you told that person before they signed up the therapist they liked would be gone in a few month they probably wouldn't sign up.Plus how is it a deal if most people get massage maybe once every few month's or only on special occasions.Just look at the overall cost of what they contract has you pay and you are not saving any money and not getting what you really want.Read the contract very carefully because once you sign it you'll find it's very hard to get out of it just like with the cell phone contracts.If a place is really good you wouldn't need a contract because people would come because they like the service.Contracts at places like this are like any other place that requires them which is because they know you would walk away if your not happy.

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Newbee @ MT in West Sayville, New York

50 months ago

Hi All,
I am starting to take classes in MT this fall and was hoping you can fill me in on my potential future in the field. After reading all the coments about the Messsage Envy, it is a bit disheartening and discouraging to know that this type of competition is going to take over the field.
Can you give me some hints and hopefully some positive feedback?
Thanks

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doloresinaustin in Austin, Texas

50 months ago

I started massage 16 years ago when there were a lot less therapists and no MEs. I started working out of my home. I don't think it is that easy to do anymore. One of the reasons for MEs success is that people want to go to a "legitimate business". They want to know it is safe. They want someone to answer the phone, and they want to get an appointment that day. So my advice is get together with some classmates (make sure they are responsible), rent a small office, split the expenses and duties. ME is not offering the public that great a deal 50 min massage/$49 = 1 a min. You can match that! Attorneys don't set up sole practices, MD's, DDS, PT's -- everyone has partners. MT's can be sucessful, but most likely not by trying to go it alone. If you don't want to run a business, then look for a spa that will give you a fair deal. As a new grad I think 30% is fair - you don't have any expenses and they supply the customers. But whatever you do dont work for ME!!! Good luck!

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Newbee @ MT in West Sayville, New York

50 months ago

Thanks for your response. One more question-
I am 48 yrs. old - in good shape- and excited to help others in a hands on way. Was running my business in the dog eat dog corporate world for 20 yrs., and it is time for a change. Can you give me some advise on starting in this profession at this time in my life?

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doloresinaustin in Austin, Texas

50 months ago

Newbee @ MT in West Sayville, New York said: Thanks for your response. One more question-
I am 48 yrs. old - in good shape- and excited to help others in a hands on way. Was running my business in the dog eat dog corporate world for 20 yrs., and it is time for a change. Can you give me some advise on starting in this profession at this time in my life?

48 is absolutely NOT too old. You have the maturity and professionalism that many young therapists lack. Having run a business is a huge ++. What kind of business? My advice is pick 1 or 2 modalities you want to specialize in. I meet many MT's who say they specialize in A,B,C,D,.... I always think of the old saw "A jack of all trades, master of none." A good place to start is what type of massage do you like to get? You will have a natural affinity and be good at it. If you really just like relaxation massage - that is fine - learn to do it really well and build your client base around that. If you want to do injury rehab, learn deep tissue, NMT, incorporate bits and pieces from other modalities. (or learn some other modality that appeals to you and incorporate bits and pieces of deep tissue and NMT.) Don't consider your schooling sufficient. It is just the beginning. Take continuing ed classes, and study on your own - buy books, read. Be an expert, be professional --- you will have a huge edge.
Don't believe that this is a short lived career. Learn good body mechanics, if you feel pain, stop, figure out why, and change the way you do things. In 16 years I have never had an injury.

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Newbee @ MT in West Sayville, New York

50 months ago

I can't tell you how relieved I am at your response. Thanks for all the advise. I was in the design industry. i loved what I did but with time I went from being the designer to more administration. That's the way it goes. I lost touch (no pun intended) with what I originally loved, because- let's face it- you have to run the business as well. Anyway, it was time to move on for other reasons as well and now I am looking forward to a completely new slant on things. A more nuturing profession.
Thanks again-

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not orange blooded in Belvidere, Illinois

49 months ago

Jules in Lake Villa, Illinois said: There like a massage Wal-Mart. Places like ME, Heavenly Massage, and Massage Motu should not be dictating the pay scale for our industry. We are a medical profession no matter what anyone else says. Its becoming accepted in hospitals and hospice industries because insurance companies are finally starting to accept it as a medical procedure. I've literally chuckled in potential employers faces for trying to offer me $8 and hour.Thats about 40 cents more an hour than a McDonalds employee. The high school kid at Home Depot makes $12-15 h with no experience! You may think well how unprofessional to laugh in someones face when there offering you a job, but you know what? Im the one thats being offended. IM OFFENDED! To all the newbies if you choose the right continuing ed coarses in clinical massage, spend the money, take the time you will make $30h You DESERVE $30h to start with time, but dont ever take anything less than $20h/per massage. Even a true high end spa offers at least $20 because they charge the client about $115h. AMTA is another one im disappointed in/ There supposed to be right behind us about all this, but there not.

trust me, the high school kid at HD DOES NOT make 12-15/hour. I've been there almost seven and only make 12.oo. It took 7 years to go from 9.00 to 12.00.

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S in Dallas, Texas

49 months ago

I worked for Massage Envy for about a year. I had a two fold experience. Starting there I was green; just out of school with no real world experience, so in that regard it was great to practice and hone my talents. On the other hand, the guy that owned the franchise I worked for was, to put it lightly, evil. I left because he did not meet my ethical standards as a business owner and I have since learned that some even more shady stuff has gone down in this clinic that is sickening to think about. But I digress. To address the clients, tipping is always appreciated and I'll be honest often times expected. What Massage Envy has done is offer massage at a reduced rate for the consumer, that is great, for the consumer, but without the option of pay raise there is not much reason to stay for any longer than a year. I made $15/hr working for them but that was only if I had a client. there were many days that I had not a one. And this clinic didn't pay us any kind of minimum wage to wait around for a "walk in" appointment. So the tips kind of made up for that.

There were no incentives that I was aware of and by the end of my stent in the massage envy world I was the most senior male therapist there.

So in conclusion: great for beginners to gain experience, but not so great if you have been doing this for a while and are looking for higher pay based on your level of experience.

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S in Dallas, Texas

49 months ago

micco in Lahaina, Hawaii said: you should have just gotten all your clients info and go to their homes. why would you choose to beat your body up that way?...develop your own client base and use massage envy as a spring-board to go out on your own.

I have a co-worked that did that and the owned TRIED to slap her with a lawsuit. He had no grounds, but it is still a scary prospect. My advice to all that may try that is use caution. If clients happen to find you on facebook or twitter or myspace and send you a friend request, ow is that your fault :)

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Unhappy and Underpaid Therapist in Miami, Florida

49 months ago

I've read all these postings, and even though a few of you are in good locations, most of the ME LMT's are working in environments in which both corporate and the local owners are exploiting their therapists. I've experienced most of these issues already in the 1 1/2 year that I've been there. I am one of the best & most requested therapists there. I love working on my clients and if the economy hadn't been better, I would have left a long time ago. (don't take their clients if you signed their noncompete). However, I am trying to get out of slavery & find something else asap...I can't continue take being injured, being lied and talked down to by management, and not being paid for time I'm not booked, the list goes on & on...I'M SO OVER IT, CAN'T WAIT TO LEAVE!
ps... I wish there was a Massage Envy union.

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lmt in Schaumburg, Illinois

49 months ago

client said: The amount of money you pay to learn your PROFESSION, i.e. massage therapy, could not possibly be as much as a 4-year university degree or what a professional PHYSICAL THERAPIST pays to learn his or her profession.

Tips are unprofessional.

Tips are Gratuity for hard work and they are not unprofessional, people who do not tip are obviously not a professional. Tipping is part of the service industry in America. I hope a MT never has to massage you.

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Jules in Round Lake, Illinois

49 months ago

Maybe its just me, but I was very disappointed with the way that corporate handled Susan G Cohman day this year. Clearly they put greed first on the one day of the year it wasnt supposed to be about them or there profits but a great charity. Once again ME gets grade FAIL

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jpgr in somewhere, Texas

49 months ago

I agree with you Jules In Round Lake.
I know at my location and the others location (which are in the best locations in the city) that belong to our owners FAILED !
A big fat F.
As Donald Trump would say...."MASSAGE ENVY...YOUR FIRED"

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Jules in Round Lake, Illinois

49 months ago

Well this time we cant really tag the owners. It was corporates decision to up the price and have less of the money go to charity. Last year we had 125 massages, then had to include a rollover day for 75 more. They were offering at about $39 and $15 went to charity where as this year they charged $49 and only $10 went to charity. Our owners have 3 stores and between then made approx. just under 2mil. Now granted there wasnt a ton of profit but I think they made it up in prospects for sure. We were lit up at 70% new people. Like I said this year they got greedy and I had the most hours of anybody with a whopping 4. FAIL!!!

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jpgr in somewhere, Texas

49 months ago

WOO HOO 4...Way to go!
I had 2 that day...
Corp. you failed...Thanks alot!

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MEMT in Stoughton, Massachusetts

49 months ago

Oh no, it's not just you. The corporation screwed this one up big time!!! Greed is not becoming a corporation on the day of a charity drive. I had 3 massages usually I have 6. Not good. of course
Monday and Wednesday were fully booked with pendings. I will never work that day again!!!
Too bad ME...............

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fancyly in Keller, Texas

49 months ago

jpgr in somewhere, Texas said: I agree with you Jules In Round Lake.
I know at my location and the others location (which are in the best locations in the city) that belong to our owners FAILED !
A big fat F.
As Donald Trump would say...."MASSAGE ENVY...YOUR FIRED"

You are absolutely right!!!!!!111

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fancyly in Keller, Texas

49 months ago

fancyly in Keller, Texas said: You are absolutely right!!!!!!111

Don't work for greedy pigs!!!!!!

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eab.lmt in Portland, Oregon

49 months ago

I am not even sure where to begin here. I am a hard working, dedicated massage therapist. One who sees the ills of Massage Envy as this:
Underpaid, overworked Massage therapists.
The deterioration of the perceived cost of a quality, therapeutic massage.

I feel it is pertinent to remind our readers of your greedy, untruthful, arrogant & manipulative comments.
QUOTE “OUR WHOLE GOAL IS TO BRING MASSAGE TO THE MASSAES AND TO ALLOW ALL PEOPLE TO BENEFIT FROM A Therapeutic MASSAGE SESSION REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY MAKE A TON OF MONEY.” END QUOTE
You & I both know that you are not catering to underprivileged Americans. You are catering to a privileged sect that are too cheap to expect to pay the going rate for a massage. You & I both know you have driven the going rate for a quality, therapeutic massage way down.

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eab.lmt in Portland, Oregon

49 months ago

QUOTE “HOW COULD YOU EXPECT ANY BUSINESS TO PAY YOU MORE THAN HALF OF WHAT THEY MAKE ON A SERVICE?” “ESPECIALLY WHEN ALL YOU ARE REQUIRE TO PROVIDE IS YOUR TALENT.” END QUOTE
How can YOU believe as a corporation that you deserve the high percentage that you take from the essence of your business, your therapists. Without our “talent”, you would have no business. No-talent greedy individuals have a habit of exploiting the truly talented individuals that they need.

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eab.lmt in Portland, Oregon

49 months ago

QUOTE “...basically crapping in the hand that feeds you.” END QUOTE
Again, one of many times that you demean & belittle your “talent”. Talent that again, without which, you have no business! There are thousands of therapist making a living despite of your corporation, There is no “hand crapping” in massage. I very much wish you were not affiliated with massage therapy. Every time one of your belittled, beleaguered, over worked therapists empowers all of us & walks out of your sorry establishment, leaving you with your cheap clients & no therapist, God Bless them & I hope these words ring in your ears.

Charge a fair price for a massage & pay therapists a decent percentage. Presto! No more bad press!

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MEMT in Stoughton, Massachusetts

49 months ago

Bravo, couldn't agree more!

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eab.lmt in Portland, Oregon

49 months ago

Physical Therapists are not given an inflated wage potential as a business tactic to enroll in school. They also earn graduate degrees from accredited universities while preparing for PT licensing. Massage schools are trade school businesses that mislead potential students with inflated earning potential. If you are a passionate, talented, dedicated massage therapist whose main interest is relieving someone's pain, business tactics are most likely not a strong suit of yours. If you receive a quality massage from an individual who is not working from their own space, who does not have a receptionist, there is a HIGH likelihood that the business owner is making a HIGH percentage on your service. The therapist will be grateful for your tip to make up the difference. Their are very few forums I have found in which PT's feel they are underpaid.

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MEMT in Stoughton, Massachusetts

49 months ago

I have soooo had it with Massage Envy, I can hardly stand it! The corporation has no care in the world as far as their therapists go. All they see is $$$$$$ nothing more, nothing less. It is a shame really....

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kalvarine rita in Hajdúszoboszló, Hungary

49 months ago

Anybody from Sweden ?

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Speak All in Alexandria, Virginia

49 months ago

I believe In Arlington va look up Massage by Bo

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MT in Austin, Texas

48 months ago

I had the same feeling about Massage envy when I first started as a Massage therapist I went straight from school into a salon where I was the only MT and then from there a Chiropractor where again I was the only MT During the past summer money was getting tight and a big move was approaching so I worked at a Massage Envy in Fort Worth. The management was all about the bottom line and even tho I only got 15 an hour of massage they kept me busy and I was averaging 20 an hour in tips and I met some really great MTs. I did get burnt out after 2 months and then I moved to Austin where I was trying to avoid working at Massage Envy but again clientele builds slowly so I had to start at a Massage Envy and I can say it has been the best decision I've made in a while, the management is great there are tons of perks, the higher your return percentage is the more you get paid, the more services you offer the more you get paid, health dental and vision insurance is 1/2 paid for if you are full time (32 hours) they are way laid back and if at anytime you feel you need a break or want to go home early if you aren't booked you are allowed to. No where else will you get paid for a no show or a cancel. If you need a very steady massage income Massage Envy is the place to go. You just need to do your research on the individual company you will be working for because each owner has their own agenda.

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DOLORES in Austin, Texas

48 months ago

That is good to know. Which ME in Austin are you at?

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K.D. in Phoenix, Arizona

48 months ago

client said: Hi. I am glad I found this forum.

I have limited financial resources (otherwise I would go to a deluxe spa which includes many amenities far and above the actual massage), but if I feel any pressure whatsoever to tip in addition to paying a membership fee, then I simply will not join Massage Envy.

I am shocked and disappointed to learn that a membership-based entity would even permit you to accept tips, let alone encourage them

I am disheartened to read this comment... Therapists spend a lot of money on school to get paid very little sometimes. Often working at a job with pay per client not hourly. Tips are what make ends meet for the therapist. Are you not expected to tip a server??? Your massage therapist spends an hour or longer paying attention to your aches and pains.. your muscles & their needs. A therpist deserves tips!!

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Speak out in Fairfax, Virginia

48 months ago

Why is this same post shown over and over again

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DOLORES in Austin, Texas

48 months ago

I was wondering that too!

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Bonnie Shuman in Tremonton, Utah

48 months ago

client said: The amount of money you pay to learn your PROFESSION, i.e. massage therapy, could not possibly be as much as a 4-year university degree or what a professional PHYSICAL THERAPIST pays to learn his or her profession.

Tips are unprofessional.

Have you ever given a massage? it's a workout, and on average massage therapy schooling cost $13,000 or more. Do you tip your hair dresser? Its a service and it is very common and considered professional to accept tips. You may get charged $75 for a massage and the therapist gets pay $25. We have to pay for licensing and insurance out of our own pocket, and go to continuing education classes in order to maintain memberships in our associations otherwise you can't get insured and without insurance you can't practice.

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Another client in Dallas, Texas

48 months ago

Bonnie Shuman in Tremonton, Utah said: Have you ever given a massage? it's a workout, and on average massage therapy schooling cost $13,000 or more. Do you tip your hair dresser? Its a service and it is very common and considered professional to accept tips. You may get charged $75 for a massage and the therapist gets pay $25. We have to pay for licensing and insurance out of our own pocket, and go to continuing education classes in order to maintain memberships in our associations otherwise you can't get insured and without insurance you can't practice.

Yes I have given a massage and I agree it isn't easy. But you chose to do it. The average massage is $62 according to the AMTA. Is it my fault you chose to massage and tear up your body instead of doing something else? Really it's not worth more. If you want to be paid a professional salary and get professional benefits then go to college and do your time. Don't just to to technical school and demand that your clients pay for your lack of commitment.

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Eaner

48 months ago

Lack of commitment?! Massage school is not easy, my friend. Why don't you remember every bone and muscle in your body? Or how about the classes on the peripheral, integumentary, endocrine, venous, respiratory, urinary, digestive, arterial, reproductive...etc...systems? You're right, it IS a lack of commitment
because we Therapists didn't pay enough for our education, even though most do go on to physical therapy, nursing and so on.
You should really do your research before making yourself sound small minded and judgemental.
As for tipping, it's always nice, but that doesn't mean everyone does it. I prefer to leave that to the individual.
And as for you.....I bet when you do get on the massage table, your therapist can just "feel" the tense, contracted, constipated like state of your judgemental mind, in each and every muscle of your body.
Just saying.

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Another Client in Dallas

48 months ago

Actually I went to massage school as a hobby. It was very very easy, my friend. As was the national exam. I do remember every muscle and bone in the body, the origin, insertion, action, synergist, antagonist, etc.

I also have earned my master's degree in kinesiology and work as a corrective exercise specialist. So as you see I have indeed done my research and am a true professional, unlike you.

I bet when you do get clients on the massage table, they can just "feel" the tense, contracted, constipated like state of your judgemental mind, in each and every muscle of your body.

Just saying.

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Eaner

48 months ago

Im glad that you've done well and that massage is a "hobby" for you. For me however, it is my passion as well as my profession. I adore it.
I really don't think anyone should judge anothers commitment to anything, without knowing.
Futhermore, mrs/mr masters degree....no one holds a gun to your head for a $20 tip.....so what if some therapists want tips? Are not ethical disagreements in your profession?
Ahhh...you're probably right....how would I know? I'm just an under educated, constipated, therapist with no commitment. Darn.

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DOLORES in Austin, Texas

48 months ago

I have several comments to make regarding the above posts.
1) You should not be getting injured doing massage. I have been a full time MT for 16 years and never had an injury. Nor am I tired at the end of the day. If you are getting injured or worn out perhaps you are physically not cut out to be a MT or you are doing something wrong. Don't go by what you learned in school - if something is causing you pain DON'T DO IT. Figure out what works for you and you can have a long career.

2) As far as tips. MT's are underpaid especially at places like ME. So they do need tips. The real problem is that we have let ourselves become a low paid service industry instead of a group of professionals. I personally do not want to be compared with a hairdresser! Instead of whining about our conditions we need to be thinking about what we need to do to raise our status.

3) Massage school education in no way compares with a college degree. It is a trade school education which to the general public means it is worth nothing. $13,000 is nothing to what someone pays for a college degree. Our licensing, insurance, etc is cheap compared to what many professionals pay. Our knowledge compared to at PT or OT is minimal. Again we need to be thinking of how we can elevate our profession.

4) Finally as professionals let us be mature enough not to belittle anyone for their opinion. That does nothing for our image.

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musiclady420 in Chicago, Illinois

48 months ago

I am trying to start a union in Chicago, IL for massage therapist.If anyone is interested in looking to form a Massage Therapist Union in Chicago, IL then contact me at musiclady420@yahoo.com. And yes massage therapy is a career and should not be considered a hobby! If it is such a hobby and not a career you would not have national chains like Massage Envy or Elements being drawn into it! Hobbies are meant for craftmakers! And there are plenty of programs out there where you do massage along with an Associates Degree. So, do not give us therapists' the song and dance about it being a "Trade School" career!

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DOLORES in Austin, Texas

48 months ago

I agree massage isn't a hobby for most therapists; however, I have met people that have gone to school just because they wanted to be able to give their partner/friends a good massage. There may be legitimate programs out there where you can get an Associates degree -- but be careful, most of them are being offered by trade schools. I have seen classes in massage offered at community colleges but not associate degrees. States have requirements for associate degrees that include math, english, science, philosophy, etc. --- so if the program you are looking at doesn't include all those things, then it isn't a real associates degree and you are paying a lot of money for something that isn't going to do you any good.

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Speak out in Fairfax, Virginia

48 months ago

How many more times is this one going to be re-posted

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Speak out in Fairfax, Virginia

48 months ago

excuse me but this forums.Excuse me but something is valued by what a person will pay not by what your education is.I know waitresses who make more then many of the 4 year degrees you say get an education.I have many friends who have done just that and have found that many of the 4 year degrees that you talk so much about do not pay any where near what they were worth 10 years ago before the big crash.There are more graduates coming out of college that cannot find work in their fields and must go into other jobs which have nothing to do with their degrees.So a waitress or a good massage therapist can make as much of more then any of the 4 year degrees you keep pushing.Now education is a good thing and I am not knocking it but do not rely on just education as your way into a good paying job or you may be standing in line with the 1000's of other people applying for that same exact job.You have more people then ever all applying for the same jobs that were at one time thought to be the place to be as long as you had that degree.More and more people are waking up to find the the jobs that pay well are now the labor jobs.Plumber,electrician,air conditioning and yes massage.People are now more stressed then ever before and need that outlet form a massage that gives them that one hour of freedom from their day to day problems.

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w. e. enis in Farmington, Connecticut

48 months ago

Another Client in Dallas said: Actually I went to massage school as a hobby. It was very very easy, my friend. As was the national exam. I do remember every muscle and bone in the body, the origin, insertion, action, synergist, antagonist, etc.

I also have earned my master's degree in kinesiology and work as a corrective exercise specialist. So as you see I have indeed done my research and am a true professional, unlike you.

I bet when you do get clients on the massage table, they can just "feel" the tense, contracted, constipated like state of your judgemental mind, in each and every muscle of your body.

Just saying.[/QUOTE

Reading between the lines you kinda sound like one of those losers that suddenly becomes smarter, better and holier than thou when you go online. Leave the discussion to real people (Honestly - A $12K school "as a hobby"? Come on, you never saw the color of $12K to say something so silly.) Don't leave your room or your mother will remind you that in spite of your age you still have to help out around the house.

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DOLORES in Austin, Texas

48 months ago

Right now unemployment is about 4% for people with college degrees and 11% for people without. The lifetime difference in earnings for people with college degrees is OVER 1 MILLION DOLLARS. Those aren't figures I made up; they come from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Plumbers, electricians, etc have huge amounts of training and belong to unions. Those that aren't in unions are called handymen and don't make nearly the money. These are also skills that most people can't do. Massage doesn't fall into that category. I am not trying to say that it doesn't take skill to be a good MT - but just that there are a lot of MT's out there -- and as evidenced by this forum a lot of them are not making a good living. I am sure that there are some waitresses making a good living, most are not. I am sure there are some MT's making a good living, but most are not. PT's, OT's, make good livings. They are able to afford nice houses, nice vacations, educate their kids. They have excellent benefits - vacation, sicktime,holiday pay, retirement accounts, insurance. Is it because they are smarter or more skilled? No, it is because they have degrees. I don't see any Physical Therapy Envy or Occupational Therapy Envy chains popping up. Why? Again it is because of degrees. We will never get the respect we want and deserve without degrees. Right now anyone who can come up with the money can get their MT certificate. Degrees would weed out the lousy therapists and the "hobby" therapists - so unless some one falls into one of those categories, I cannot understand why anyone would be opposed to us becoming a really respected profession with standing in the community and good pay and good benefits.

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Speak out in Fairfax, Virginia

48 months ago

The Project on Student Debt estimates that 206,000 U.S. college students graduated with more than $40,000 in student loan debt in 2008. Using 2008 dollars as a baseline, that represents a ninefold increase over the number of students graduating with that amount of debt in 1996.Most college students don't think much about all of the debt that they are accumulating while they are in school.But once they get out, the sudden realization that they have gotten themselves into student loan payments that they cannot possibly handle can be completely demoralizing.The New York Times recently profiled Cortney Munna - a recent college graduate who has not been able to get a "good job" and who now finds herself in student loan hell. She recently told the New York Times that she would be more than glad to give back her education if she could just get out of all this debt...."I don’t want to spend the rest of my life slaving away to pay for an education I got for four years and would happily give back."In recent years, millions of young college graduates have found that the "great education" that they thought they were getting actually doesn't get them very far at all in the real world.In fact, they often find themselves taking jobs where they work right next to other people their age who never even went to college.
So a lot of young college graduates find themselves wishing that they could just "return" their education and get all that money back.

But there is no walking away from student loan debt.

The truth is that federal bankruptcy law makes it nearly impossible to discharge student loan debts.

Basically, once you get into student loan hell there is no escape.

So now we have hundreds of thousands of college graduates that can't get good jobs and that have brutal student loan payments that they can't possibly handle.

No wonder so many of them seem so angry and depressed.

But the funny thing is that so many that are still in college are so unbelievably optimi

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