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Corey in Glendale, Arizona

48 months ago

client said: Hi. I am glad I found this forum.

I have limited financial resources (otherwise I would go to a deluxe spa which includes many amenities far and above the actual massage), but if I feel any pressure whatsoever to tip in addition to paying a membership fee, then I simply will not join Massage Envy.

I am shocked and disappointed to learn that a membership-based entity would even permit you to accept tips, let alone encourage them

Massage therapy is a service industry and as such tipping is not only customary but encouraged. I would hate to think that you wouldn't tip while dining. Massage is actually alot more customer based service than that. I would love to discuss this further if you like.

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KAT in Seminole, Florida

48 months ago

It is better when a massage specialist rents a booth and keeps her/his money made.

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Sonia in Cabot, Arkansas

48 months ago

DadMike in Maryland said: I get what he's saying; I wouldn't say it's good to BAN anyone from further ed, which I hope isn't what he really meant; but rather ban them from medical practices until they earn the full degree, maybe a full BA would be good, that's the entry level standard for most skilled medical positions, (2-yr nurses get zero respect) and obtain the appopriate license to do so. Many professions already do this to maintain the status and income level of those with greater skills.

There is no way this would work with the currently licensing systems in place for massage. To separate MT’s by a level of educational requirements would have to start with the Fed, then fall to local and state government. Well all know how wonderful the govt is at running its other pork programs so this is not very realistic. Unlike nurses with a separation in RNs and LPNs there are not enough guidelines drafted to supply categories on different levels for MT’s. But I do completely agree with Hanna that it’s not a matter of “IF”, but a matter of “WHEN” massage will be regulated and classed under Medical. Think about it who runs health coverage in America?? INSURANCE Companies! You get the health care they approve, not what you need. When Massage goes medical it will have regulations placed on it in order to meet the modifiers and CPT codes for Major Medical to approve and pay. So there will be some regulation come down the road on its own.

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John Larkin in Denver, Colorado

48 months ago

Let's not forget a couple things. One, it is the best interest of the insurance companies not to divide us into trained and untrained so they can say that no massage therapist has any ability and they get to keep their money. and second, the only one looking after the consumer is the individual massage therapist.
Companies like massage envy and Hartford make their money by keeping it. Any other view would be naive and idealistic. That is why the same pay, within a couple dollars, is offered to a person right out of school and a therapist with 20 years experience.

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KAT in Seminole, Florida

48 months ago

Owner/Clinic Administrator in Atlanta, Georgia said: I'm saddened to see so many massage therapists who feel so negatively about what Massage Envy is trying to accomplish. Our whole goal is to bring massage to the masses and to allow all people to benefit from a therapeutic massage session regardless of whether or not they make a ton of money. How could you expect any business to pay you more than half of what they make on a service? Especially when all you are require to provide is your talent. The Massage Envy's all over the nation are dolling out big bucks to provide you with a safe and professional environment to practice your trade in and you are basically crapping in the hand that feeds you. Not only that, but tell me one other company that goes out of it's way to provide continuing education classes for it's therapists, health insurance at no cost to the employee, and a life insurance policy to be paid out to your loved ones if anything were to happen to you? I find these comments selfish and unwarranted. But luckily for me, and the other owners and operators out there who are interested and extremely invested in bringing this concept to everyone, there are still therapists out there who do work at massage envy and value every client that they have the pleasure of touching. It's not always about the money per massage but the money overall and the abundance of people you get to help. I would love to see a site bashing the people who organize the legal aide branches throughout the country and doctors without borders, I doubt I would see any of their employees complaining about not being paid enough money to pay back their minimum of 8 YEARS of education.

Massage Envy is bringing the business down.A massage therapist works hard,learns as much about the body as most nurses.She/He should expet $50-$60 a hour ,not $15-$20.Cheap labor is what corporate does.That is why we need unions to prevent places like this from making us min wage workers.

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Tony in Beaverton, Oregon

48 months ago

KAT in Seminole, Florida said: Massage Envy is bringing the business down.A massage therapist works hard,learns as much about the body as most nurses.She/He should expet $50-$60 a hour ,not $15-$20.Cheap labor is what corporate does.That is why we need unions to prevent places like this from making us min wage workers.

What you need is not unions but INDIVIDUALS who won't accept low wages. Union representatives are the same greedy, corrupt individuals who run companies like ME. They take as much money and only look after their own self-interests at the expense of both the company and the workers.

If NO ONE WOULD ACCEPT the crappy conditions and low pay at ME then it would be forced to raise standards or go out of business. Low entry requirements keep low-quality workers in the field working at ME because they can't do any better for themselves. Unions will only prey upon that weakness.

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Tell All in Alexandria, Virginia

48 months ago

Tell you what.You can work in the medical field with all the insurance and bureaucracy I'm more then happy to stay working at the Spa's.The more you get involved with the medical field the more problems you will find that goes with it.Oh if you think you will get any more money you are very wrong.Once you involve the insurance companies you'll find out your pay will be lower.Ask any doctor and see why many or opting out of many insurance plans.

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Tony in Beaverton, Oregon

48 months ago

Tell All in Alexandria, Virginia said: Tell you what.You can work in the medical field with all the insurance and bureaucracy I'm more then happy to stay working at the Spa's.The more you get involved with the medical field the more problems you will find that goes with it.Oh if you think you will get any more money you are very wrong.Once you involve the insurance companies you'll find out your pay will be lower.Ask any doctor and see why many or opting out of many insurance plans.

There's a lot to be said for your plan. Wish I had done this from the beginning. I have found that people are willing to pay big $$ out of pocket for spa services but not medical! Not sure what that says about our priorities but it's not for me to judge. Not only is the pay lower with insurance but you have to wait 30-60 days to get paid.

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LMT in Utah in Vernal, Utah

48 months ago

I agree. Don't work anywhere where you are put in the position of being highly underpaid, and working to the point where your body breaks down. Unions will not end this, just boycott them. It is common sense. When I looked at Massage Envy, and the way that they were paying their therapists, I snorted, and moved on. "Well, I won't be working there!" Don't allow people to take advantage of you.
I am sure people would just love for me to work on them for an hour and a half, and only have to pay me 10 bucks and no tip. Well, guess what, I would just love to walk into Bebe clothes, and pay 10 bucks for 200 dollars of clothing. Just because I would like that doesn't mean it is going to happen. Charge what you are worth. Don't compromise. That is all there is to it.

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LMT in Utah in Vernal, Utah

48 months ago

Yep. We tried to do insurance work at the chiropractor clinic that I worked at for a year. He got paid(most of the time-not always). We didn't. No matter how many doctors ordered it, no matter which code we put it under. The chiropractor tried to reimburse us, but we still ended up losing a TON of money. Under current laws in Utah at least, it is very difficult to submit insurance claims for massage. We gave up on it.

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TB in Fountain Valley, California

48 months ago

I'am new to this forum and I have been reading the comments about Massage Envy and what is doing to our industry. I currently work for Massage Envy as a therapist. I know this job sucks but I'am glad to have a job at least and they keep me busy. I'am worried because today I was talking to a newly hired MT co-worker of mine and he said that when he was interviewed by one of the owners the owner told him that ME currently has over 850 Massage Envys nationwide and they have ''licenses'' to open over 500 MORE!! Has anyone else heard this? I'am not happy about this!

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DadMike in Maryland

48 months ago

KAT in Seminole, Florida said: Massage Envy is bringing the business down.A massage therapist works hard,learns as much about the body as most nurses.She/He should expet $50-$60 a hour ,not $15-$20.Cheap labor is what corporate does.That is why we need unions to prevent places like this from making us min wage workers.

Here's why higher standards would help increase MT pay- most states only require 600 hours or so of ed to be a licensed MT, if they have any credentials at all- that's less than 1 year of schooling; the BOTTOM RUN nurse needs at least TWICE that much education; most hospitals and medical employers want someone with a 4-year degree, or over 4 TIMES the amount of ed needed to be an MT; and nurses also engage in hard, physical labor.

If you look at labor market based on education, 15-20 + tips is GOOD MONEY for someone with a HS diploma and less than 1 year of training.
And Massage Envy and similar chains know this, and are making their money off of it. If it wasn't true, no one would accept their wages.

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gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii

48 months ago

Will you guys STOP ALL THE B/S already. I am innundated with these emails.
JUST GET YOUR OWN CLIENTS. If you are licensed. All it takes is for several
MTs to get together and rent a space in your town. Charge what you like and split the rent with the other therapists. The rent CAN'T BE THAT HIGH that several MT's can't pay several hundred a month a piece. You would make as much or more money and work less hours. DO THE MATH> Even 3 massages a day at $40 bucks a day is $120 per day +tips. BE YOUR OWN BOSS. IF YOU ARE GOOD AT WHAT YOU DO YOU WILL SUCCEED AND PEOPLE WILL BE LOYAL TO YOU. ITS LIKE REAL ESTATE SALES OR ANYTHING ELSE. STOP WHINNING AT GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE. THEY ARE ALREADY GETTING COMPLAINTS ABOUT PRESSURE TO SIGN MEMBERSHIPS, ETC. ETC. THERE TIME WILL COME. IN THE MEANWHILE MOVE ON.

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LMT in Utah in Vernal, Utah

48 months ago

Yes, thank you!

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Jules in Mchenry, Illinois

48 months ago

I had no idea my thoughts weather you agree or not would start such a wildfire but I like it! Physical therapists and chiropractors went through a phase too where where the AMA did not consider them a part of the medical industry until science (and a lawsuit against the AMA) started to back them up with statistical evidence of health improvement. Massage therapy is now going through the same positive phase with science but Im sorry I just dont feel that we will ever truly be accepted by the AMA with such low schooling hours, and were definitely never going to be taken seriously standing next to a therapists doing seaweed wraps and facials. I know I just offended a lot of people but I am NOT looking down my nose at you. Simply saying that theres to wide a gap in the intention of our touch. I want to see this industry advance itself and in its current state I see corporate takeover of our schools and jobs without even a glance in the direction of improvement. What Id love to be able to say is that if we were recognized we would no longer be treated like labor monkeys but I have never ignored how nurses are overloaded with very physical and stressful amounts of work. Im not sure if there really is a winning situation.

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TB in Fountain Valley, California

48 months ago

I recently saw an article about Massage Envy. They are so sucessfull that will be opening up Massage Envys in Hawaii!!

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Jules in Mchenry, Illinois

48 months ago

This is exactly what I meant thank you for further explaining dadmike. You can take psychology courses but that doesnt make you a psychologist until youve completed all of the schooling. You cant ban anyone from learning but what you can do is apply that credit towards the education you need that would qualify you to use it in the workforce

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KAT in Seminole, Florida

48 months ago

Owner/Clinic Administrator in Atlanta, Georgia said: I'm saddened to see so many massage therapists who feel so negatively about what Massage Envy is trying to accomplish. Our whole goal is to bring massage to the masses and to allow all people to benefit from a therapeutic massage session regardless of whether or not they make a ton of money. How could you expect any business to pay you more than half of what they make on a service? Especially when all you are require to provide is your talent. The Massage Envy's all over the nation are dolling out big bucks to provide you with a safe and professional environment to practice your trade in and you are basically crapping in the hand that feeds you. Not only that, but tell me one other company that goes out of it's way to provide continuing education classes for it's therapists, health insurance at no cost to the employee, and a life insurance policy to be paid out to your loved ones if anything were to happen to you? I find these comments selfish and unwarranted. But luckily for me, and the other owners and operators out there who are interested and extremely invested in bringing this concept to everyone, there are still therapists out there who do work at massage envy and value every client that they have the pleasure of touching. It's not always about the money per massage but the money overall and the abundance of people you get to help. I would love to see a site bashing the people who organize the legal aide branches throughout the country and doctors without borders, I doubt I would see any of their employees complaining about not being paid enough money to pay back their minimum of 8 YEARS of education.

You are like the fast food industry.Cheap prices and low pay.This company will ruin the industry.At your pay rates we should just drop all massage qualifications and let untrained people do the job for $15 a hour.The same goes for the CNA field where people must be certified for low pay.

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DadMike in Maryland

48 months ago

gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii said: Will you guys STOP ALL THE B/S already. I am innundated with these emails.
JUST GET YOUR OWN CLIENTS. If you are licensed. All it takes is for several
MTs to get together and rent a space in your town. Charge what you like and split the rent with the other therapists. The rent CAN'T BE THAT HIGH that several MT's can't pay several hundred a month a piece. You would make as much or more money and work less hours. DO THE MATH> Even 3 massages a day at $40 bucks a day is $120 per day +tips. BE YOUR OWN BOSS. IF YOU ARE GOOD AT WHAT YOU DO YOU WILL SUCCEED AND PEOPLE WILL BE LOYAL TO YOU. ITS LIKE REAL ESTATE SALES OR ANYTHING ELSE. STOP WHINNING AT GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE. THEY ARE ALREADY GETTING COMPLAINTS ABOUT PRESSURE TO SIGN MEMBERSHIPS, ETC. ETC. THERE TIME WILL COME. IN THE MEANWHILE MOVE ON.

120 a day = 15 an hour, plus tips; then you're deducting self-employment tax (you have to double you Social Security tax, since normally an employer matches that), business fees and taxes, licensing fees, utilities, rent, supplies, plus schedule yourself, do your own accounting, and still not health insurance or leave time.
You're going to have to up your prices or do ALOT more massage per day to make a living with that set up.
And other MTs HAVE done this successfully. It's just not as easy as what your spelled out.
And if you go into business yourself, good math skills will help alot, too!!

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DadMike in Maryland

48 months ago

PS- you also must assume all your partners are nice, eager sharers like yourself, and won't try to steal your clients, under report tips resulting in audit of whole business, etc.

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gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii

48 months ago

Your an idiot!!! I was an Assistant Vice President for one of the largest banks in the country and am now in early retirement, starting another career. What business fees and licensing fees are you talking about fool. You just pay rent. In most states you just need an establishment license period. Each MT is an independent contractor like a Real Estate Agent. They pay there own insurance etc.
WHICH IS ALL TAX WRITE OFFS, not like Massage Envy where there are no WRITE-OFFS.
Are you part of the Massage Envy team is that why your against this???? Its like all Realtors giving up because CENTURY 21 started. Or how alot of Beauty Parlors operate as well GET REAL. ITs POSSIBLE AND YOU KNOW IT!!!

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gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii

48 months ago

Why would they steal your clients idiot??? If all they have to do is pay a portion of rent (their share) per month. People are going to choose the therapist they want to go to just like a hairdresser. Haven't you heard some beauty parlors charge $200-250 per month to rent a chair. All tax deductible. I think you can easily pay that if you are making several thousand per month. I THINK YOU ARE THE ONE WHO NEEDS THE MATH LESSON. I HAVE BEEN SELF EMPLOYED IN FINANCIAL ADVISORY AND MORTGAGE SALES THE WRITE OFFS ARE FANTASTIC WHEN YOU ARE SELF EMPLOYED. You can only do so many massages per day anyway. It doesn't work out to $15 an hour its, whatever you charge plus tips. You keep it all. All you need is people who want to work together. I work in a similar place now and we all get along. The scheduling is Cake; you just open the book and schedule appointments. It doesn't take a rocket scientist. Very little overhead. AGAIN, YOU MUST BE FROM MASSAGE ENVY

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gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii

48 months ago

To Jules. Take your schooling and Shove IT!! I can't tell you how many of you Ivy League fools I blew past getting promotions because BASIC COMMON SENSE WAS SERIOUSLY LACKING!!!! Some of the richest people in the world who started businesses all over this country had no education. TAKE A LOOK AT THE FOREIGN BORN WHO COME HERE AND OPEN BUSINESSES. YOU KEEP YOUR EDUCATION AND KEEP APPLYING FOR JOBS THAT WON'T BE THERE FOR YOU. I HAVE FRIENDS WHO HAVE CHILDREN WHO JUST GRADUATED FROM EXPENSIVE COLLEGES WITH MARKETING DEGREES ETC. ETC. WHO CAN'T FIND JOBS. ONE WENT TO AUSTRALIA. LOTS OF LUCK TO YOU. YOU BETTER WAKE UP AND REALIZE THAT INDEPENDENT ENTERPRISE IN THIS COUNTRY IS WHAT WILL RULE. GOOD LUCK TO ALL YOU MTS OUT THERE. GIVE IT A SHOT. THE WORST THAT CAN HAPPEN IS YOU END UP BACK AT MASSAGE ENVY.

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Jules in Mchenry, Illinois

48 months ago

Yeah take my schooling and shove it but you couldnt not brag about all of your titles because its totally well known that assistant vice presidents are retards companies hire off the street. By the way what your taking about is the exception not the rule with independent facilities. Immigrants who open a business here dont have to pay taxes for the first 7 years plus get all the write offs and they still struggle. I know plenty of American small business owners who are still struggling after several years. Plus were not opening a gas station. Its the marketing thats very expensive and it still doesnt guarantee clients. Starting your own business is not exactly realistic when you already have a family that needs health insurance and bills paid. It happens over a very long period of time as you start to accrue clients on the side. Our job doesnt involve crunching numbers and bs on the computer all day Its working on and fixing medical problems. Theres no possibility that you could physically hurt somebody sitting behind your desk so education for us IS important. Get off you high horse because your taking about apples and oranges

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Sonia in Cabot, Arkansas

48 months ago

gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii said: To Jules. Take your schooling and Shove IT!! I can't tell you how many of you Ivy League fools I blew past getting promotions because BASIC COMMON SENSE WAS SERIOUSLY LACKING!!!! Some of the richest people in the world who started businesses all over this country had no education. TAKE A LOOK AT THE FOREIGN BORN WHO COME HERE AND OPEN BUSINESSES. YOU KEEP YOUR EDUCATION AND KEEP APPLYING FOR JOBS THAT WON'T BE THERE FOR YOU. I HAVE FRIENDS WHO HAVE CHILDREN WHO JUST GRADUATED FROM EXPENSIVE COLLEGES WITH MARKETING DEGREES ETC. ETC. WHO CAN'T FIND JOBS. ONE WENT TO AUSTRALIA. LOTS OF LUCK TO YOU. YOU BETTER WAKE UP AND REALIZE THAT INDEPENDENT ENTERPRISE IN THIS COUNTRY IS WHAT WILL RULE. GOOD LUCK TO ALL YOU MTS OUT THERE. GIVE IT A SHOT. THE WORST THAT CAN HAPPEN IS YOU END UP BACK AT MASSAGE ENVY.

Man I’m not sure who or why you were hired, but you are clueless to the Massage Business or make that Business in general. DadMike is correct and so is Jules. I would bail on this forum if I were you, your making NO sense at all and if your unaware of the cost, fees, and other business responsibilities to owning and operating a company I sure hope you don’t try it on your own. This is FREE advice I’m saving you a ton of cash here FYI!!

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Sonia in Cabot, Arkansas

48 months ago

gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii said: Your an idiot!!! I was an Assistant Vice President for one of the largest banks in the country and am now in early retirement, starting another career. What business fees and licensing fees are you talking about fool. You just pay rent. In most states you just need an establishment license period. Each MT is an independent contractor like a Real Estate Agent. They pay there own insurance etc.
WHICH IS ALL TAX WRITE OFFS, not like Massage Envy where there are no WRITE-OFFS.
Are you part of the Massage Envy team is that why your against this???? Its like all Realtors giving up because CENTURY 21 started. Or how alot of Beauty Parlors operate as well GET REAL. ITs POSSIBLE AND YOU KNOW IT!!!

This might be true for you coconut stand, but in the “real world” there are a few more things to consider when operating a “REAL” business. Lord have mercy before you start calling everyone “Idiots or telling them to shove it” you might have someone with an education great than the University of Phoenix ONLINE help you with a business plan. And before you think I work for Envy I can tell you I DON’T, they are hurting the industry but so are hot heads speaking lack of knowledge. Oh and early retirement is not the same as being fired...........

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DadMike in Maryland

48 months ago

gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii said: Your an idiot!!! I was an Assistant Vice President for one of the largest banks in the country and am now in early retirement, starting another career. What business fees and licensing fees are you talking about fool. You just pay rent. In most states you just need an establishment license period. Each MT is an independent contractor like a Real Estate Agent. They pay there own insurance etc.
WHICH IS ALL TAX WRITE OFFS, not like Massage Envy where there are no WRITE-OFFS.
Are you part of the Massage Envy team is that why your against this???? Its like all Realtors giving up because CENTURY 21 started. Or how alot of Beauty Parlors operate as well GET REAL. ITs POSSIBLE AND YOU KNOW IT!!!

Jeez, do a bit of research before you go all shrill.
Different states, different standards- Maryland, you need to pay license fees to set up business; you need to maintain a massage license; you need zoning approvals for certain types of business; you need laundry service- if you contract, it's an expense; in house, you will need approval for industrial-scale laundry or face fines due to Chesapeake Bay run-off; you need supplies; you pay taxes if you're legit, and you may need an accountant if keeping books is not your thing, esp. for deductions. Insurance in case you're sued, too.
Hawaii may be lax on their rules- probably better off that way, but that's not how many states are.
And you don't think people won't compete with each other to make more money?
I'm not saying don't do it- I'm just saying you're going to have to work harder to make a profit than the oversimplified proposal you made.
Now- if you just show up and get a portion of your fee after "expense" deduction, you're probably not an equal partner. Who actually pays the rent? Whose name is lease under? Did you all incorporate to reduce
liabilities? Big difference working for a corporation vs. being independent.

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DadMike in Maryland

48 months ago

gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii said: To Jules. Take your schooling and Shove IT!! I can't tell you how many of you Ivy League fools I blew past getting promotions because BASIC COMMON SENSE WAS SERIOUSLY LACKING!!!! Some of the richest people in the world who started businesses all over this country had no education. TAKE A LOOK AT THE FOREIGN BORN WHO COME HERE AND OPEN BUSINESSES. YOU KEEP YOUR EDUCATION AND KEEP APPLYING FOR JOBS THAT WON'T BE THERE FOR YOU. I HAVE FRIENDS WHO HAVE CHILDREN WHO JUST GRADUATED FROM EXPENSIVE COLLEGES WITH MARKETING DEGREES ETC. ETC. WHO CAN'T FIND JOBS. ONE WENT TO AUSTRALIA. LOTS OF LUCK TO YOU. YOU BETTER WAKE UP AND REALIZE THAT INDEPENDENT ENTERPRISE IN THIS COUNTRY IS WHAT WILL RULE. GOOD LUCK TO ALL YOU MTS OUT THERE. GIVE IT A SHOT. THE WORST THAT CAN HAPPEN IS YOU END UP BACK AT MASSAGE ENVY.

And my degree and license have guaranteed my steady employment for the last 20 years, and I'm in one of the few professions in my the DC/MD area that has no shortage of openings for qualified applicants. I'll never make a ton of money at what I do, but I'll never be unemployed, either. Increasing skills and credentials DOES open doors- you just need to do the research to make sure what you pursue for skills/degrees is marketable before you invest in the expense, if need to make a living in it.

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DadMike in Maryland

48 months ago

gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii said: Why would they steal your clients idiot??? If all they have to do is pay a portion of rent (their share) per month. People are going to choose the therapist they want to go to just like a hairdresser. Haven't you heard some beauty parlors charge $200-250 per month to rent a chair. All tax deductible. I think you can easily pay that if you are making several thousand per month. I THINK YOU ARE THE ONE WHO NEEDS THE MATH LESSON. I HAVE BEEN SELF EMPLOYED IN FINANCIAL ADVISORY AND MORTGAGE SALES THE WRITE OFFS ARE FANTASTIC WHEN YOU ARE SELF EMPLOYED. You can only do so many massages per day anyway. It doesn't work out to $15 an hour its, whatever you charge plus tips. You keep it all. All you need is people who want to work together. I work in a similar place now and we all get along. The scheduling is Cake; you just open the book and schedule appointments. It doesn't take a rocket scientist. Very little overhead. AGAIN, YOU MUST BE FROM MASSAGE ENVY

If your write-offs are TOO fantastic, it means you're losing money.

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dolores in Austin, Texas

48 months ago

John Larkin in Denver CO -- I am sure I know you. did you wife used to own the shop at Mexico and Chambers?

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gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii

48 months ago

ITS NOT A MAJOR CORPORATION YOU RETARD. YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY FROM MASSAGE EVNY. THEY ARE ALL OVER THIS FORUM TRYING TO DISCOURAGE ANY COMPETITION.

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Jules in Mchenry, Illinois

48 months ago

LOL BURN! Totally agree with Sonia. Its pretty sad when you write "Bank"on the outside of a cardboard box and still only nominate yourself for vice president. Kona If you want to keep babbling nonsense go twitter with Charlie Sheen so you can be "winning" on somebody elses forum because your losing on this one.

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gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii

48 months ago

Oh and by the way. Yeah I guess I must be doing something wrong.
I'll think of you guys while I watch the Hawaii sunset this evening and go to my house that I built brand new here in Hawaii to plant my avocado tree that needs to come out of the pot. I will think of you SUCCESS STORIES in Maryland trucking to work every day (oh and don't forget to wear your bullet proof vests when you go into Baltimore at night and don't forget to stay out of the seafood restaurants you might get sick. IN THE SERVICE INDUSTRY IF YOU PROVIDE QUALITY SERVICE, AN ATMOSPHERE THAT PEOPLE ENJOY COMING TO, AND QUALITY WORK (WHICH IF YOU HAD THE PROPER TRAINING, YOU SHOULD HAVE), YOU WILL SUCCEED. JUST LIKE ANY RESTAURANT OR REAL ESTATE OFFICE OR HAIRDRESSING ESTABLISHMENT. PERIOD, END OF STORY. YOU ARE MAKING A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLESHILL. MASSAGE THERAPY HAS THE LEAST AMOUNT OF OVERHEAD THERE IS.

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Jules in Mchenry, Illinois

48 months ago

Oh by training did you mean EDUCATION?! and learn how to spell you ass. By the way the 3/4 of Hawaii that isnt a resort and nice homes is a dump so why dont you go give those minimum wage people the same advice about opening there own business because apparently its a cake walk... and wear your bullet proof vest

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gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii

48 months ago

don't you mean THEIR OWN BUSINESS. Thought you could spell?

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skaye84 in Collinsville, Illinois

48 months ago

It is a good opportunity for therapists to form a co-op of sorts to share the expenses of starting a business. But the initial year or so you are not AT ALL guaranteed those 3 clients per day EACH DAY! There is a place for each individual that really wants to be in this field. IF you have prior business AND marketing experience & skills, then you might be a good fit for your own private practice. It takes alot of knowledge to get all those tax write off's & I agree if they are "Too Fantastic" then you're probably cheating somewhere (which will backfire one day) But if you have a family that needs provided for in the present, Massage Envy is providing a job for those therapist. & yes I do work for M.E., so save me all the skewed math equations trying to figure out what I make. I make enough to support my family & for me that's my priority.

As for education, anyone who says "shove it" to education reveals their own ignorance. I feel that one of the things holding back further education requirements is that our field does not fit the traditional 4 yr university structure that typically earns you those credentials. & the programs that have tried to pop up in community college atmospheres have too much interference by administrative powers that do not understand anything about our craft or the needs of our educations. The CEU model that has worked in the past is now extremely off track, because anyone & everyone can "create" their own modality & charge a ridiculous fee for a certification that is not recognized by any other educator or school.

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gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii

48 months ago

All I can say is there are no guarantees when you open a business. That's just a fact of life. It's like saying I want to open a restaurant but what if noone comes in the door? Our shop is currently booked for 3+ weeks out. We are turning people away because Therapists don't want to work Saturday mornings. THERE IS A NEED. That's why Massage Envy started. They see this need. It's mostly BABY BOOMERS. They need massage monthly to stay active; and believe me these older folks know when they are getting a good massage and when they are not!!

They have so many issues that require massage. Golfers Elbow, Tennis Elbow, etc. etc.

Don't let fear hold you back and don't listen to these negative Nancy's about having to get permission to have a commercial laundry or whatever. Do your sheets at home, no problem. Believe it or not, most people prefer a small shop with the right atmosphere and people that they come to know and trust to make them feel better after a massage. Also, when you come to know your clients well, like we do, if you are in a State where there is snow, etc. and you have an elderly client that doesn't want to venture out, you can offer to go to them. Charge a little more, but offer that personal service that Massage Envy does not. It makes all the difference.

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Jules in Mchenry, Illinois

48 months ago

Wow Hawaii I bet none of the therapists on here ever thought about an out call before! You really are just an abundance of original ideas. Also the majority of clients are NOT baby boomers. Well of coarse we should just wash the sheets at our house because the water is free there and every apartment comes with a washer and dryer right? Since your such a business guru please explain to the nice people what an economic depression is and how your good old friend the bank has treated small businesses since 2009? Then explain to them why clients stop coming because they just got laid off or took a pay cut and massage is not a necessity over the light bill. Please enlighten us all!

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Raena Hernandez in Atlanta, Georgia

48 months ago

The negativity and selfishness from most of you is disgustingly staggering. Its no wonder that you hate your jobs, payscale, tip amounts, etc. because you aren't getting what you think you deserve. Allow me to enlighten you, If I walked in to your establishment, if it be your own or a massage envy, and saw that kind of attitude that I'm positive just oozes from you from every orifice, I'd turn around and walk out making sure to let everyone I know about it and how uncomfortable I felt. You wonder why you get fired or don't get pay raises, hmmm, well, try changing your attitude. The smallest change can make an extraordinary impact and some times its better to just suck it up than lose your job security. If you still get fired or still don't get a raise, well, I apologize, but then there was obviously something wrong that someone didn't think you deserved your position or more money. Don't think about things that negatively impact your work, think about how many don't have a job and would kill to be in your shoes. Be glad you make enough money to feed yourself and your loved ones and provide them shelter because there are too many that go without and are struggling to even get a job with McDonalds.

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Raena Hernandez in Atlanta, Georgia

48 months ago

jpgr in Houston, Texas said: I was not at all trying to be sarcastic .....I think your post was excellent.

My apologies. Thank you. :)

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DadMike in Maryland

48 months ago

gpost9 in Kailua Kona, Hawaii said: ITS NOT A MAJOR CORPORATION YOU RETARD. YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY FROM MASSAGE EVNY. THEY ARE ALL OVER THIS FORUM TRYING TO DISCOURAGE ANY COMPETITION.

You respond quite poorly to any criticism, and really aren't reading what has been posted.
An incorporation can be ANY size; banks can also be any size- there are huge mega-corps, and tiny single-branch locals; but they can still incorporate. Maybe your prior bank was tiny, and you do have small business experience.
I've had a small event-oriented retail business on the side, and I incorporated- it's easy in Maryland, and it protects you from certain legal liabilities. If you have a small group practice, incorporation could be very beneficial, depending upon your local laws and regs.
Out-call is a great way to reduce overhead; but you have to be very careful with that-- way too many prostitutes have used this as a thinly disguised veil to their business, so you'd have to screen customers carefully for the therapist's safety.
None of this is said to discourage anyone; rather the opposite. If people read this and truly believed it was easy as you say it is, they'll quickly run into reality and are more likely to fail.
And if you really are as sloppy in your practices as you are posting, your business will go under as well, if for nothing more than tax violation reasons and disputes over expenses.

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Sonia in Cabot, Arkansas

48 months ago

As much as I appreciate everyone’s opinion on this forum why don’t we try something different. Most of us seem to agree the Envy is NOT the best solution for all parties involved. So why don’t we focus on what each of us can do to change the industry in the positive? I would think that between all the different individuals experiences, educations, geographic locations where we reside, surely we can find some common ground and possibly develop a program that everyone can benefit from. Would anyone be willing to at least attempt to do this with me???

We know there are at least several groups that we need to address to even star this. One being the end user or consumer, without them we have no one to purchase our services. Second is the MT, without them we have no one to provide the service even if the consumer would like to purchase. Third we need a business owner, since most MT’s don’t have the financial assets starting out to open a business. I would think we would be best served if we can come up with one common brand name that the community recognizes as reliable provider and has a solid reputation in the community? We want to make sure the price point is attractive enough where people even in the economy would purchase our goods, yet is high enough that the MT can earn enough income to justify the time and effort spend. We would want to minimize the number of massages performed per day so the MT’s are not physically stressing their bodies.

I’m sure if we put a little energy toward the positive we can come to some common ground and build a better model. Are you willing to try?

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dolores in Austin, Texas

48 months ago

Brilliant Sonia! Yes, I am with you all the way. I will put some thought into this and post soon.

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Jules in Woodstock, Illinois

48 months ago

I feel a little bit like a broken record but I truly believe this is the way for the industry to breakthrough. Open a clinic for medical massage only so that you can ACCEPT insurance! Literally think about the amount of people that would rather use insurance for massage versus paying it all out of pocket like Envy. This is possible if you have a medical massage certification or even a script for massage from a doc. Im telling you insurance is the key. We would end up leaps and bounds ahead of Envy because they will always only be considered a service industry. Im also aware of the argument that you wont get your money for up to 6 months or the insurance will refuse to pay at all. If you submit your paperwork in the correct order with the right codes and very detailed SOAPs there should be no problem. Ive worked with therapists who do it all the time but you have to follow the guidelines insurance sets. 15 minutes per extremity. Working ONLY on the areas affected. You skate around the time by finding other areas of pain such as the compensated. You bill more you get payed more and you help more people stay away from surgery

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musiclady420 in Chicago, Illinois

48 months ago

Hanna in Coco, Costa Rica said: This is exactly why I feel the industry is headed toward medical services as well as needs to. As you increase the educational standards and requirements you will weed out those who only see massage as and easy way of making $$$. It's sad but a recient student told me the school recruited her with promises of $60-$80 massages. Not I'm not saying you can't earn that, but 95% will not! So with all the schools jumping on the tuition band wagon this is where we are. ME has just learned to take advantage of those who didnt do their homework.

As for myself I love who I work for and with. Massage Advantage created the opportunity where I work my hours of massage, then transition into front desk or help with rehab. I have a whole new set of skills, earn extra pay and still have free heath services. As for the future, well I happen to know they recruit from offices and I'm looking to be a coach helping other MTs when my massage days are over. I like many of you have put in my time and am about to "retire" from full time massage. Good blessing to all of you... H

You also live in Costa Rica! Can I come and live with you?

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healthfulhands in Chicago, Illinois

48 months ago

Jules in Mchenry, Illinois said: Its really unfortunate that this person didnt read my point. My ME also offers health insurance if id like to pay $429 a month (before physical). They basically just picked out some company and said if you want to buy your own insurance here you go. The reason I harp on this issue so much is because you have no idea how physical the job really is unless your a therapist. You finally get in the car to go home and your like holy sh*t every muscle in my body aches, Im exhausted. People push themselves to do 7 and 8 hour days because of the low hourly wage but bills have to get payed. Im not kidding when I say 3/4 of the therapists I work with have some kind of dysfunction or injury. What do you think is going to happen to them the day xyz muscle pulls a disc out of place or tendon injury occurs. You dont have disability to fall back on, you dont have insurance to go see a chiro. How are you going to pay your bills for the next few weeks you have to take off?

My health insurance is BCBS of Illinois/PPO and I pay about $118.00 per check(semi-monthly). The owners pick up about $143.00 of it. And I had asked the owners of the Naperville East/South ME that I work at and they said that ME Corporate already has insurance but it is really expensive and doesn't cover everything. Unfortunately, they are running into the problem that each insurance company goes by each state and not nationwide. Sounds like your franchisees just suck and don't want to pay anything to your insurance. Well, if you don't mind the drive switch to one of the clinics in Naperville. And please don't get me wrong we have our problems too, and there are even things I don't like but as I stated before you will get things you don't like about any job.

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healthfulhands in Chicago, Illinois

48 months ago

Dadmike has a point about the higher education standards. But as the industry stands right now there is no difference between the therapist who goes to school as I did in a trade school(Everest to be exact)to the therapist who goes and gets an Associates and then continues to learn the techniques later. I know at least 3 therapists who went to a regular college, got an assocaites along with the massage credentials, paid double what I paid, and still makes no more money than I do.

This is why there should be a national union, like IBEW is for electricians, so there are set standards of wages and other compensation for your education. One woman I work with has a masters in Speech Therapy!?!?!? Yet, as a MT she still makes the same money I do. I'm sorry but I have, under another name, put up an email account to make a union for MT's to contact me to start one. And no one(not even any of you on here)has replied........so maybe all the therapists who complain on here should do less belly-aching and more proactive work! I have contacted the state union boards here in Illinois, talked to my coworkers, talked on here; and when it comes down to it everyone backs away from the idea because no one wants to risk their job! And as I have told so many people-"If we all band together instead of squabbling amongst ourselves and do this as a group then they can't fire all of us!" So, as talented as a therpist I am with a high request rate averaging about 70% per year, I am switching careers! I hear all this complaining from everyone but no one wants to do anything about it.

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Jules in Woodstock, Illinois

48 months ago

Actually I have contacted the union bards by email a few times but apparently it must not sound very appealing because nobody has responded.
@healthfulhands Im glad to hear your owners are semi cool, at least about the insurance but mine... Ill put it to you this way. You know how crappy the front desk gets paid and one of the sales team was up for review to get a dollar raise. The owners after just having said this was the most productive xmas yet and sales are up blah blah percent said they just werent making enough to give her the raise. The real slap in the face for her was that they both just came back tan from a 2 week vacation. Also we have a therapist who has multiple health probs including sever asthma, diabetes and high blood pressure so she has to go all the way to the free Cook County hospital to see docs and get meds. Not sure what Im expecting from 2 lawyers who did not invest in this franchise to make people feel nice

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Flyrightby in Indianapolis, Indiana

47 months ago

jo said: what the heck are you insinuating??!!!

a happy ending a massage envy!

that would sure give 'em sumthing to think about!!!

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the whole "happy ending" thing happens far more frequently than what may be thought in the massage business. I say that because I got my first massage a week ago and it involved that kind of contact. I went in and signed up for the monthly massage at Massage Envy for pain reasons. My shoulders and lower back have tension and pain and after an MRI that showed no apparent reasons for discomfort, my doctor told me I could take medication as needed or try to see if massage therapy might help. I chose to try massage over pain meds and even though I've only been twice, I am feeling a tremendous difference in the way I feel....
Now, back to the happy ending issue.. Until my first visit, I thought that these things were myth. I will say that I had absolutely no intentions going in that I would have anything like that done, it just seemed to happen that way. During my massage, I started to get an erection.. I was pretty embarrased by the whole thing and actually wanted to end the session there.. My therapist, probably noticing my face turning red told me that it was ok, normal for that to happen due to increased circulation and not to worry, just try to relax. I did and she continued. It got to a point where it was pretty uncomfortable... She came right out and asked me if she could "help me out"... I asked her what she meant and she basically said that she wanted me to relax and if it was ok that she would massage my penis..
So I did, she took a few minutes and the deed was done and the massage continued. Was it a bad thing? No.. In my opinion, she saw a problem and took care of it.. Would I do it again? Probably not, I am going to massage to treat my pain.. Will I ever ask for that? Absolutely not...
So, it happens.. I don't have a problem with it at all...

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DadMike in Maryland

47 months ago

Flyrightby in Indianapolis, Indiana said: I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the whole "happy ending" thing happens far more frequently than what may be thought in the massage business. .

Yikes!! In order to AVOID this is a HUGE reason I joined Massage Envy!! Prostitutes disguised as MTs are HUGE problem, and after 1 experience in which I refused to be "released" and left, at a shop that LOOKED LEGIT, I felt much safer at a very generic looking chain. You may be OK with it, but that MT should be reported and fired! There are plenty of ads in the paper for those looking for 'hos; I don't want "undercover 'hos" ruining a legit place.

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