Massage Envy experiences...

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Ben in Aurora, Colorado

42 months ago

Most of the comments I've read on this site are very negative, granted that's how it works, only complainers take the time to post. People wouldn't work for ME if they treated employees so poorly and clients wouldn't go to ME if they didn't see value in the product. No doubt ME is not known for great massages, but rather a good value for those who can't afford or find better. The lower margins both for the owner and the employees are in theory offset by less down time.

If you are ok with part-time work, doing your own marketing, having an inconsistent schedule, managing overhead costs, etc, then going off on your own may be a better option. However, if your weekly check is more important than your hourly income, then ME offers a stable, low risk job. That said, if you plan to make massage your long-term career, the only option is to become an owner if you need to be the family breadwinner.

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Monica in Euclid, Ohio

42 months ago

Nice. Work While Sick...Can't wait to get my next Massage at Envy...and come home with a flu. Preventative Medicine? Hmm...'Come to Massage Envy and Get a FREE Cold!'

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Ben in Aurora, Colorado

42 months ago

I certainly wouldn't want a massage from someone who was really sick, but my guess is the person who made that comment didn't win the no absence award in high school. It's no coincidence that successful people are rarely sick while others are always sick and never work unpaid overtime. Hmm...

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jpgr in Houston, Texas

42 months ago

Monica in Euclid, Ohio said: Nice. Work While Sick...Can't wait to get my next Massage at Envy...and come home with a flu. Preventative Medicine? Hmm...'Come to Massage Envy and Get a FREE Cold!'

SAD, but true.
Just pop in a cough drop and get to work.

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LMT in Toledo, Ohio

42 months ago

Actually, I did win a perfect attendance award in school. The whole time I worked at Envy I missed 1 day, when I had the flu. And I went back the next day still sick but better. I worked extra days for people when they needed off for their kid's BS event, or so thy could go out of town with their husband. I worked 6 days a week for a while, and worked 17 days in a row at one point. Don't question my work ethic. I supported 2 people on the ME income, and less before I got out of school.

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mmatchem in Evansville, Indiana

42 months ago

Nason in Ellicott City, Maryland said: I started working at Massage Envy 8 months ago. I work their part-time and have a full time job somewhere else. I call the work that I do drive-thru massages because you barely have time enough to do a full body massage much less really help someone with their muscles. My day job treats their employees very well. I am shocked at how poorly Massage Envy treats their Massage Therapists. They pay their therapists a very, very low wage with no benefits. I know the Massage Envy that I work at packs people in on a daily basis so they can afford to pay their therapists a better wage. I am staying their for a year or two to get experience and then moving on to another place. My advice to anyone trying to decide whether or not to pursue Massage as a professional career would be that it is great part-time work but it is not a business that you would want to be doing full-time. You pay a lot of money to go to school and if you get stuck working at Massage Envy you probably wouldn't be able to pay your rent much less anything else. Choose another career.

I worked for massage envy in chesterfield missouri i agree that the pay was low however because i was a very good therapist right out of school i didnt mind the low pay because each client i had understood the job i was doing and rewarded me in tips and it made up the difference from 20 dollars a massage to 40 to 60 dollars a massage after the tip. so I guess its about being professional and doing your job exceptionally with great customer service. location also plays a major part how your clients tip you.

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Ex Massage Envy Therapist in Evansville, Indiana

42 months ago

I worked for massage envy in chesterfield missouri and being right out of school i thought it was a cool place to work. although the pay was only 20 a massage my tips would between 20-60 dollars a massage so the pay worked out for me. Location plays a part in your tips as when you go to a expensive place to dine. also you tip according to your service. Excellent customer service along with professionalism and knowledge plays a part. you can build your business at massage envy if you are a business thinker. Most people who get regular massages understand the importance of tipping and dont mind at all but again that amount really depends up on the therapist "if you go to mc donalds youre not expected to leave a tip" what kind of business are you running even if you work for ME?

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LMT in Toledo, Ohio

42 months ago

If the insurance companies start seeing us as legitimately medical practitioners (I'm in OH and massage is governed ny the Ohio State Medical Board; we get a Limited Practitioner's License from them after 750 hours of heavily regulated curriculum [anatomy equivalent to a pre-med student, Kellogg methods for massage theory, Ethics, 45 hours of in-school clinic time, 15 hrs of out-of-school supervised clinic time]), then we will be hired by hospitals and long-term care facilities as part of the Physical Medicine dept and work right alongside PTs and OTs. This means the hospital billing dept would worry about coding and such, and we'd get salaries, plus great insurance, 401K, paid time off, tuition reimbursement, paid CEUs, etc.
I am currently in nursing school because I know I will never afford my own health insurance, or be able to retire, on MT pay. I'm sick of running specials to get clients in the door and cutting my own pay by doing so. But if the above options were available, I'd quit school in a heartbeat.

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DadMike in Maryland

42 months ago

LMT in Toledo, Ohio said: If the insurance companies start seeing us as legitimately medical practitioners (I'm in OH and massage is governed ny the Ohio State Medical Board; we get a Limited Practitioner's License from them after 750 hours of heavily regulated curriculum [anatomy equivalent to a pre-med student, Kellogg methods for massage theory, Ethics, 45 hours of in-school clinic time, 15 hrs of out-of-school supervised clinic time]), then we will be hired by hospitals and long-term care facilities as part of the Physical Medicine dept and work right alongside PTs and OTs. This means the hospital billing dept would worry about coding and such, and we'd get salaries, plus great insurance, 401K, paid time off, tuition reimbursement, paid CEUs, etc.
I am currently in nursing school because I know I will never afford my own health insurance, or be able to retire, on MT pay. I'm sick of running specials to get clients in the door and cutting my own pay by doing so. But if the above options were available, I'd quit school in a heartbeat.

That why MTs have to up their education standards. A PT needs a BA- standard is 120 CREDIT hours, or apx. 3 hours a week classroom time per a semester- if a 10 week semester (can vary), 30 classroom hours per credit, or 3600 hours of classroom time.
Then-- they need a Master's degree, apx. 36 credit hours for most PT programs- that's 1080 hours, on top of the 3600, for 4080 hours of classroom time.
And curriculum is heavily regulated, and you need a license.
Compare that to 750 hours of education, and you can see why insurance prefers to pay PTs.
And remember this-- pre-med is PRE-med; pre-med students aren't allowed to practice medicine. Their anatomy training is entry-level.
This is not to bash MT- but to bring the point that if MTs want to be treated like medical professionals, and not para-professionals, they need to up their standards to true professional ones.

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Angrymassagecat in Springdale, Arkansas

41 months ago

Um, I've worked at massage envy in Rogers AR for three years now. They start us off at $15 dollars a massage, they don't pay ceu's they don't pay for massage insurance and they don't even allow the male therapists to practice the same modalities that they do as the females like: lomi lomi

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Dude in Portland, Oregon

41 months ago

Angrymassagecat in Springdale, Arkansas said: Um, I've worked at massage envy in Rogers AR for three years now. They start us off at $15 dollars a massage, they don't pay ceu's they don't pay for massage insurance and they don't even allow the male therapists to practice the same modalities that they do as the females like: lomi lomi

This is because employers do not value massage therapists because they're disposable. Like DadMike said school is so easy that anyone can graduate. National exams are laughable. MTs are a dime a dozen so there's no reason for employers like ME to pay decent money, offer benefits or treat you with respect. If you want any of that you must do your own thing but even then it's luck of the draw.

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LMT in Toledo, Ohio

41 months ago

The NCBTMB exam may be "easy", but in OH they don't even recognize it. We have a 2-part exam; 2 hrs 20 min written (pencil-and-paper, not computerized) anatomy and physiology, then a 20 min break, then 2 hr 20 min Kellogg/theory. It's given once in June and once in December and you must travel to Columbus to take it. Then after 6 weeks, when the Board has met, you get your scores in the mail. About 2 weeks later you receive your actual license in the mail. The fee for taking the exam is about $350 and you go through an extensive background check and must have notorized letters of reference when you apply. The pass rate is something like 63%. It was by no means an easy exam. The English Subject GRE is the only test I have ever taken that was harder.

Perhaps in some states that hold either no licensing requirements or very little, they are a dime a dozen, but here, if you have made it through MT school and passed your boards, you are a cut above most. At least on paper. So many LMT's get through school and Boards, then lose their Passion for it and don't get CEU's, don't pursue it as a career for long....and the lack of respect for the profession and the inability to support oneself on LMT pay is a major reason.

Dude in Portland, Oregon said: This is because employers do not value massage therapists because they're disposable. Like DadMike said school is so easy that anyone can graduate. National exams are laughable. MTs are a dime a dozen so there's no reason for employers like ME to pay decent money, offer benefits or treat you with respect. If you want any of that you must do your own thing but even then it's luck of the draw.

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DadMike in Maryland

41 months ago

LMT in Toledo, Ohio said: The NCBTMB exam may be "easy", but in OH they don't even recognize it. We have a 2-part exam; 2 hrs 20 min written (pencil-and-paper, not computerized) anatomy and physiology, then a 20 min break, then 2 hr 20 min Kellogg/theory. It's given once in June and once in December and you must travel to Columbus to take it. Then after 6 weeks, when the Board has met, you get your scores in the mail. About 2 weeks later you receive your actual license in the mail. The fee for taking the exam is about $350 and you go through an extensive background check and must have notorized letters of reference when you apply. The pass rate is something like 63%. It was by no means an easy exam. The English Subject GRE is the only test I have ever taken that was harder.

Perhaps in some states that hold either no licensing requirements or very little, they are a dime a dozen, but here, if you have made it through MT school and passed your boards, you are a cut above most. At least on paper. So many LMT's get through school and Boards, then lose their Passion for it and don't get CEU's, don't pursue it as a career for long....and the lack of respect for the profession and the inability to support oneself on LMT pay is a major reason.

Those standards are pretty common for ALL licensed professionals. Exam fees, reference letters, waits for test results- no different for doctors, social workers, even barbers, etc. The big difference-- education prior to taking test. That's where MTs become cheap labor-- most states only require less than 9 months of schooling to qualify to take the exam. Compare that to a minimum of 6 years for PTs, a profession often compared to MTs, or even the 2 yrs for an entry-level nurse (also paid poorly), and you can see why massage chains believe MTs are easily replaceable.

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Gloria in Kailua Kona, Hawaii

41 months ago

Just curious. I am surprised at all the Massage Envy Locations popping up in New York State. New York requires 1,000 hours to be licensed. I notified Albany to check into their locations to insure that the therapists infact are licensed in the State of New York and not some other state. It just seems unlikely that they would be able to acquire that many licensees all of a sudden. It is much more training etc. etc.

Does anyone know if the Therapists in New York get paid more than those in other states given they require almost twice as much education and training?

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Anon in Sewell, New Jersey

41 months ago

me in Calhan, Colorado said: I paid 20,000 dollars for my degree in massage therapy.

Seems like slot. But that's in no way what it costs to be a PT. At the very cheap end it can be around 100K (undergrad and grad - no living expenses included) and take 6 yrs of full time effort to complete. It's more likely that it will cost $150K-$200K.

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DadMike in Maryland

41 months ago

Anon in Sewell, New Jersey said: Seems like slot. But that's in no way what it costs to be a PT. At the very cheap end it can be around 100K (undergrad and grad - no living expenses included) and take 6 yrs of full time effort to complete. It's more likely that it will cost $150K-$200K.

I paid over 60,000 for school (undergrad and grad) in the early 90s; 20grand for less than a year of school-- someone is running a serious scam.
Not surprised, though- that's why I didn't go to culinary school- 40grand for an associates, and I knew several grads working as line cooks for barely above min wage.

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LMT in Toledo, Ohio

41 months ago

My program was 15 months full-time, and cost about $14,000

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wolf in Atlanta, Georgia

40 months ago

Dear Owner/Clinic Administer in Atlanta GA.
ARE YOU MAD! AND YOU ARE RIGHT OUT LIING! I work for 2 MEs in Atlanta and have looked into the others NOT A ONE has health insurance at no cost to the employee, and a life insurance policy to be paid, we the therapist have to pay for ALL OF TH

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LMT in Atl in Atlanta, Georgia

40 months ago

Dear Owner/Clinic Administer in Atlanta GA.
ARE YOU MAD! AND YOU ARE RIGHT OUT LIING! I work for 2 MEs in Atlanta and have looked into the others NOT A ONE has health insurance at no cost to the employee, and a life insurance policy to be paid, we the therapist have to pay for ALL OF THAT!. The CEUs that M.E offers are very subpar to a full waste of time. And I would love to know WHO you are so we can talk about this! Please don’t lie about what M.E offers there therapist here in Atlanta.

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elanabanana1 in Lynchburg, Virginia

40 months ago

client said: The amount of money you pay to learn your PROFESSION, i.e. massage therapy, could not possibly be as much as a 4-year university degree or what a professional PHYSICAL THERAPIST pays to learn his or her profession.

Tips are unprofessional.

18,000.

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DadMike in Maryland

40 months ago

elanabanana1 in Lynchburg, Virginia said: 18,000.

18,000 won't even get you a bachelor's degree. Even if you went the first two years at a community college.
And PTs needs Master's degrees.
Avg. cost of state school is 9grand PER YEAR; 9x4= 36000.
Add 2 years more for grad school, at greater expense.
Private undergrad-- avg. is 35grand PER YEAR--- or 140,000!!
Even in my doddering old age, when school was cheaper, (late 80s, early 90s) a state school bachelor's was running 5 grand a year for tuition alone. You'd still be 2grand short.
So-- you spent 18. That's a lot of money for many, many things.
But not for an education.

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massagebybillie@yahoo.com

40 months ago

client said: Hi. I am glad I found this forum.

I have limited financial resources (otherwise I would go to a deluxe spa which includes many amenities far and above the actual massage), but if I feel any pressure whatsoever to tip in addition to paying a membership fee, then I simply will not join Massage Envy.

I am shocked and disappointed to learn that a membership-based entity would even permit you to accept tips, let alone encourage them

I am a therapist at massage envy in ga, Trust me when I say we live off of the tips because even as a membership type clinic you are on commission. It breaks down to about $15.00 a massage and if we don't have a massage we aren't making any money. Tips help, but even then it's tight trying to pay the bills. Now lets compare that to $10,000.00 of tuition for 9 months of school and many late nights of studying. By the way what is your hands worth? You think sitting at a computers rough work; try working on person after person with your knuckles for eight hours, NO LUNCH (because you don't know when or if your going to get enough to pay your bills). Carpal tunnel syndrome? Listen, We are worth far more than we get paid. By the way the clinic takes $45.00 to our $15.00 for the membership! Get a clue. We do the same work as someone that does physical therapy on you, but yet because they have a college degree+ more history, math and english they get to charge $485.00 for that hour EVEN though massage therapist take far more hours in NMT....500 to be exact. If you don't think we are worth a $10.00 tip then don't come....for God sakes...don't ever let a massage therapist work on you.

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Sheika in High Point, North Carolina

40 months ago

massagebybillie@yahoo.com said: I am a therapist at massage envy in ga, Trust me when I say we live off of the tips because even as a membership type clinic you are on commission. It breaks down to about $15.00 a massage and if we don't have a massage we aren't making any money. Tips help, but even then it's tight trying to pay the bills. Now lets compare that to $10,000.00 of tuition for 9 months of school and many late nights of studying. By the way what is your hands worth? You think sitting at a computers rough work; try working on person after person with your knuckles for eight hours, NO LUNCH (because you don't know when or if your going to get enough to pay your bills). Carpal tunnel syndrome? Listen, We are worth far more than we get paid. By the way the clinic takes $45.00 to our $15.00 for the membership! Get a clue. We do the same work as someone that does physical therapy on you, but yet because they have a college degree+ more history, math and english they get to charge $485.00 for that hour EVEN though massage therapist take far more hours in NMT....500 to be exact. If you don't think we are worth a $10.00 tip then don't come....for God sakes...don't ever let a massage therapist work on you.

Well said Billie!!! you are so right on. I left ME to go back to working for myself. I just didnt feel that I was getting compensated for the work I do. Not only is this kind of work physically demanding, consider the emotional and spiritual energy that we give as well. There is no amount of $ that can add up to the value of that extra that we give our clients. Many people get a massage because it helps support them energetically and spiritually. Its not always merely about tight muscles. Its more that we help them understand the mind body connection. I dont think tha tmost physical therapists have this capability the way we do.

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DadMike in Maryland

40 months ago

massagebybillie@yahoo.com said: I am a therapist at massage envy in ga, Trust me when I say we live off of the tips because even as a membership type clinic you are on commission. It breaks down to about $15.00 a massage and if we don't have a massage we aren't making any money. Tips help, but even then it's tight trying to pay the bills. Now lets compare that to $10,000.00 of tuition for 9 months of school and many late nights of studying. By the way what is your hands worth? You think sitting at a computers rough work; try working on person after person with your knuckles for eight hours, NO LUNCH (because you don't know when or if your going to get enough to pay your bills). Carpal tunnel syndrome? Listen, We are worth far more than we get paid. By the way the clinic takes $45.00 to our $15.00 for the membership! Get a clue. We do the same work as someone that does physical therapy on you, but yet because they have a college degree+ more history, math and english they get to charge $485.00 for that hour EVEN though massage therapist take far more hours in NMT....500

How does education come into this? IT SETS YOUR WAGES. PTs are paid more because there are fewer of them; cost and length of education screens folks out; this is why most professions set the bar high on education- reality is most learning is OTJ; but professions want a certain body of knowledge about them, as well as limit the number of folks that have it-- In large part TO KEEP UP THEIR WAGES.
Market forces- the more people that have your skill, esp. if they get it quickly and cheaply, the less your labor is worth to a business. MTs are easily replaceable, even if though the skill is valuable.
Not fair- but that's the way it is, and it's reflected in the wages offered by ME and similar chains. Scarcity drives up prices, abundance lowers.

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Gloria in Kailua Kona, Hawaii

40 months ago

I reported Massage Envy to New York State Authorities and I was informed that they are going to start an investigation to start inspections of their facilities to insure that each Massage Therapist does INDEED have a NY State License. They are aware that like other business in this country, Construction being one, that illegals and unlicensed persons are often hired at lower wages. I have run across it in my state working at Hotels and Resorts. When I asked an MT I worked with on a couples massage at a Resort how she learned a particular type of Massage, she told me she WATCHED A YOUTUBE VIDEO. She seemed to have no skills at all and I felt she wasn't licensed as an MT. She told me she was licensed to do facials, etc. etc. Enforcement is Key. ALL I CAN SAY IS MAKE SURE ENFORCEMENT IS DONE IN YOUR STATE. IF THERE ARE COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE MASSAGES WITH COMMENTS LIKE THEY JUST DO A RUB DOWN. HAVE THEIR CREDENTIALS CHECKED, CHANCES ARE THEY ARE NOT LICENSED.

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DadMike in Maryland

40 months ago

Gloria in Kailua Kona, Hawaii said: I reported Massage Envy to New York State Authorities and I was informed that they are going to start an investigation to start inspections of their facilities to insure that each Massage Therapist does INDEED have a NY State License. They are aware that like other business in this country, Construction being one, that illegals and unlicensed persons are often hired at lower wages. I have run across it in my state working at Hotels and Resorts. When I asked an MT I worked with on a couples massage at a Resort how she learned a particular type of Massage, she told me she WATCHED A YOUTUBE VIDEO. She seemed to have no skills at all and I felt she wasn't licensed as an MT. She told me she was licensed to do facials, etc. etc. Enforcement is Key. ALL I CAN SAY IS MAKE SURE ENFORCEMENT IS DONE IN YOUR STATE. IF THERE ARE COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE MASSAGES WITH COMMENTS LIKE THEY JUST DO A RUB DOWN. HAVE THEIR CREDENTIALS CHECKED, CHANCES ARE THEY ARE NOT LICENSED.

Yep- that is the other big downer for MT wages-- prostitutes and untrained folks posing as legit MTs, as in all those ads in local papers, "Massage, All-Asian, XX chest, Strictly Non-sexual" Baltimore's City Paper is FULL of those. They need to be prosecuted if MTs want more respect and better wages.

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kat in Minneapolis, Minnesota

40 months ago

In florida it is a felony to do a massage without a license.Just make sex legal and they wouldn't have to play those games.Canada and england did.

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Jules in Woodstock, Illinois

40 months ago

Doctors and lawyers have saturated there own industries like cockroaches and yet you never hear them say gee I had a hard time paying my bills this month. So I guess overabundance and crappy wages only apply to the skilled labor industry (which is how I view my job at this point). I love what I do and it comes from a place of compassion but at the same time it would be super nice if I could afford to do something more than pay bills. Why is taking one week off of work a year for vacation a luxury I cant afford as a single person (besides the fact that any vacation day that is not covered by another therapist is considered unexcused absence)?

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Massage Mom

40 months ago

Jules in Woodstock, Illinois said: Doctors and lawyers have saturated there own industries like cockroaches and yet you never hear them say gee I had a hard time paying my bills this month. So I guess overabundance and crappy wages only apply to the skilled labor industry (which is how I view my job at this point). I love what I do and it comes from a place of compassion but at the same time it would be super nice if I could afford to do something more than pay bills. Why is taking one week off of work a year for vacation a luxury I cant afford as a single person (besides the fact that any vacation day that is not covered by another therapist is considered unexcused absence)?

That's a pretty simple answer: Your not that skilled. You can't compare the educational expense nor the time invested or even the mental capacity of a doctor or lawyer to the average MT. That's what allows them the ability to earn what they do. Why does everyone complain about what they earn when YOU choose Thr profession??? It doesn't make sense! Life is not about "entitlement" it's about the path you choose compared to the sacrifice you make. Consider this: Anyone with $4k-$6k and 6-9 months can be and MT. A doctor or even a lawyer will cost $125k -$250k to earn your degree. The you work as someone else's lackey for sometimes years before striking out on your own. Given a decent MT should earn at least $30k a year they have a 6 yr- 10 yr head start on the DR/PA. So for the first almost 10 years MTs earn more and have less longterm debt. So if you are so upset take the LSAT or GMAT and make something of yourself.

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kat in Minneapolis, Minnesota

40 months ago

There are so many lawyers and doctors out there because so many people need them.Massage is often a luxery that people can no longer afford.Like getting a pedicure.It is all about supply and demand.

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Rachel in Haines City, Florida

40 months ago

I worked for Massage Envy. Base pay was $15/hr. I was told upon being hired that I would receive an extra dollar for any request that come in, along with a $1 raise every 6 months till I reach 20$/massage. I had clients whom requested me, and i never received that extra dollar per, nor did I receive my $1 raise after my first 6 months. We were told we were to get insurance, but that never happened either. The manager they hired was an 18 yr old bimbo, i doubt she even graduated from high school. She had no clue what she was doing.

I now work for Hand and Stone Massage and Facial Spa. I make $16 for a relax, an extra $4 for hot stone, foot treatments, hand treatments, mini cold stone face massage. $2 for aroma therapy, and $10 for a 25 minute cold stone face treatment. plus if someone becomes a member after your massage you make an extra $5 bonus. But if that person was to cancel, you get that $5 taken away, at any time. There is No contract at H&S and clients like that.

I live in Central Florida, where neither place is very busy. Massage envy was Way over staffed, and if you were buddy buddy with the manager, you got a lot more massages than everybody else. the books were never balanced. Most of my clients were request. But I worked 8 hour shifts and did maybe 2 or 3 massages a day. H&S just opened in May, and the first weeks were busy, but business has slowed down, and the owners have decided to hire too many therapist. Our manager there has had experience as a manager and the assistant manager has worked at many other spas, I work 6 hour shifts and is doing anywhere between 1 to 5 massages.

In my opinion H&S is better to work for. Just dont tell them you have kids, because they dont like that, I didnt mention i had two kids until after I was hired and boy was my owner mad, nor would he work with my schedule, I told him I coudlnt work nights due to day care, told me I would work what I was scheduled and If i didnt like it I could quit.

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Massage Mom

40 months ago

Here is what each MT needs to ask themselves. Am I willing to take the risk to do massage on my own? If your not, then your best option is a franchise like ME, H of S, Massasge Heights, Elements, etc. But if your willing to "invest" in yourself and you have confidence to step out alone (or with some others) then doing it on your own is the only way to go. If your somewhere in between MA seems like the best option. MA has programs offered in clinic so you can work for a DC clinic, but I hear they are now offering a independent MT program helping those who want help to get rolling. Sure they are going to get a piece of the pie, but from what I hear it's like 5-10% of the gross redemption. Food for thought... MM

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Jules in Woodstock, Illinois

40 months ago

@ Massage Mom. Im fully aware of how much it costs to go to school for those professions. I really didnt need you to break it down. Your statements are ignorant so Ill fill you in on why your not very skilled at talking to people on this planet. I dont come from anywhere near upper class income. Entitlement is only for rich people in this country so unfortunately for me that meant I was not entitled to an education after high school nor was I entitled to a loan to get additional education. Just so you know I did chose the massage therapy path because I love it as a career but also sacrificed everything to come up with that 10k for school and Im sick of people who look down there nose at it like a drop in the bucket. So if I had 250k available to me dont you think I would have gone to med school and "made something of myself"? When it comes to money you dont just get to "choose". You either have it or you dont. So your answer really breaks down into; because you didnt come from a better social class you deserve to make a low wage since your unskilled etc. LMT'S dont make 30k in this economy and if they do they are either physically depleted every day as an employee, not paying there taxes or have had there own business established for more than 5 yrs. Also just to shove your condescension right back down your throat my previous comment was regarding the over abundance of workers in an industry dictating the pay. I was simply stating that things dont work across the board equally and its not right. Next time pay more attention to what you read and then you can pat yourself on the back for sharing "wisdom" with people.

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Massage Mom

40 months ago

@jules.. I can now see that you "need" therapy, it's just not Massage Therapy! Hun I've been massaging for years and you need to wake up and take some responsibility for you own actions. It doesn't matter which side of the tracks you grew up in or "if" your daddy had money it's all about what YOU make of it. I've seen plenty of Doctors kids who had ivy league oppertunities never go anywhere in life. I've seen a poor boy raised by his grand parents become President in 2008. So when you have lack of funds you make it up in maximized efforts. Reread your own response, then tell me why you should have more opportunity? So far I just see you as another underskilled complainer not willing or smart enough to do what it's going to take to change your situation. Not only that but at your own admition YOU chose the field cause it was what you could afford. A more skilled person would realize there is a limit to what his/her time x wages will equal so they use what knowledge they have to exspand their opportunities. You could work for someone who pays more, go on your own, or perhaps teach at a local school. There is an lady in Houston TX who owns the school I attended who came from nothing and now owns a school and massage business. Its all on you and not fair to bash doctors/lawyers because of your choices!

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MT4Life

40 months ago

Massage Mom said: Here is what each MT needs to ask themselves. Am I willing to take the risk to do massage on my own? If your not, then your best option is a franchise like ME, H of S, Massasge Heights, Elements, etc. But if your willing to "invest" in yourself and you have confidence to step out alone (or with some others) then doing it on your own is the only way to go. If your somewhere in between MA seems like the best option. MA has programs offered in clinic so you can work for a DC clinic, but I hear they are now offering a independent MT program helping those who want help to get rolling. Sure they are going to get a piece of the pie, but from what I hear it's like 5-10% of the gross redemption. Food for thought... MM

Love it... Your dead on.. Everyone has options, but this is so true. I like the idea of actually doing both. I can work PT so I have some income, and look at starting my own business. Since I never owned a business before I think the basic MA platform is a very viable option. Sounds like I can charge what ME does and cut out the middleman, keeping the extra for my efforts and not splitting it with the house??? If so I REALLY like that idea..

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LMT in Grayslake, Illinois

40 months ago

I think its important to point out that each ME is going to bring with it its own experience. Fresh out of school with my license I was making $18/per massage + tips. I named my schedule, I named my hours, how many massages I would do, how many breaks I wanted.

I was in complete control. Unlike some spas - I didn't have to clean my room, my table was broken down for me. My schedule was always booked, rarely did I have to worry about no shows/cancellations... Yes I worked hard, but I made good money. Are thre better options out there? Absolutely. But those better places tend to demand experience - and ME offers just that.

My manager was incredible, my coworkers were a dream ~ very cohesive and friendly environment. My clients weren't "cheap", they were well respected individuals that always tipped well, and I don't nor would I ever criticize anyone that were to go to ME for a massage or for employment.

I'm growing rather tired of the LMT's that thumb their nose at everything and everyone. I commend ME for the concept - I think massage shouldn't be a luxury, I don't think people should have to pay 150 for a one hour massage -that lets face it, is only 50 minutes because of the 5&5 aloted for dressing.... and I don't see them as a threat to the massage community, but instead as an aid. I've gone to high end spas and gotten horrible massages too. So it's really unfair to place it all on one company's shoulders. Perhaps try placing it on the massage therapists shoulders instead.

...And before it's asked, I didn't leave ME because I got fed up with them or felt like a slave, I left to pursue what was my ultimate goal, to work with Hospice.

Massage shouldn't be a privellage, and honestly - It's my belief that snobby therapists that thing they're worth hundreds of dollars an hour, that are giving the industry a bad reputation, not the company's themselves. This field isn't for everyone, and if you're chasing a pot of gold... this isn't your field

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15yr in Massage Therapy

40 months ago

MASSAGE ENVY. If you're a Massage Therapist and have any self respect or any respect for the Massage Therapy profession I urge you to STAY AWAY!!!!!!... I worked for M.E. for three months got tired of that slave labor DUMP and quit... The pay @ Massage Envy here in Florida is $15 an hour(you do not get more if you do Deep Tissue work on guest) WE ARE WORTH MORE THAN THAT!... Told the owner to stick Massage Envy were the Sun don't shine after being booked a 4hr Deep Tissue Massage non stop(that's $60 in 4hours!!! No way!!!) I currently work @ a major Spa and get paid between $60-$75 an hour with full benefits.
So stay away not only from Massage Envy but ALL MASSAGE FRANCHICES!!! Places like Massage Envy, Hand&Stone, Woodhouse, and Elements. They are the CANCER and LEACHES of the massage industry!...

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15yr in Massage Therapy

40 months ago

Eric in Toronto, Ontario said: I'm curious about people's experience with Massage Envy. I hear a lot of negative comments especially with regards their pay scale. Has any therapist found working at Massage Envy to be a positive experience? Are you able to accept tips at Massage Envy? Are there other perks in working there in terms of professional development or benefits?

MASSAGE ENVY. If you're a Massage Therapist and have any self respect or any respect for the Massage Therapy profession I urge you to STAY AWAY!!!!!!... I worked for M.E. for three months got tired of that slave labor DUMP and quit... The pay @ Massage Envy here in Florida is $15 an hour(you do not get more if you do Deep Tissue work on guest) WE ARE WORTH MORE THAN THAT!... Told the owner to stick Massage Envy were the Sun don't shine after being booked a 4hr Deep Tissue Massage non stop(that's $60 in 4hours!!! No way!!!) I currently work @ a major Spa and get paid between $60-$75 an hour with full benefits.
So stay away not only from Massage Envy but ALL MASSAGE FRANCHICES!!! Places like Massage Envy, Hand&Stone, Woodhouse, and Elements. They are the CANCER and LEACHES of the massage industry!...

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Dynamike in Blythewood, South Carolina

40 months ago

DadMike in Maryland said: That why MTs have to up their education standards. A PT needs a BA- standard is 120 CREDIT hours, or apx. 3 hours a week classroom time per a semester- if a 10 week semester (can vary), 30 classroom hours per credit, or 3600 hours of classroom time.
Then-- they need a Master's degree, apx. 36 credit hours for most PT programs- that's 1080 hours, on top of the 3600, for 4080 hours of classroom time.
And curriculum is heavily regulated, and you need a license.
Compare that to 750 hours of education, and you can see why insurance prefers to pay PTs.
And remember this-- pre-med is PRE-med; pre-med students aren't allowed to practice medicine. Their anatomy training is entry-level.
This is not to bash MT- but to bring the point that if MTs want to be treated like medical professionals, and not para-professionals, they need to up their standards to true professional ones.

I disagree with your statement about "upping the education". Truth be known: yes you need a 4 year degree for PT. HOWEVER, you are not learning PT for FOUR YEARS! As with all college degrees, you MIGHT be able to take some entry level classes the second semester of your sophomore year. Half of the classes you take towards PT (or any four year degree for that matter) aren't directly related to your profession. I'd be willing to bet that if you looked at a first year PT student, they're taking math, biology, a social science, and a literature/grammar class. In essence, it's a review of high school all over again.

I haven't researched your claim that insurance prefers to pay PT over MT; however, I would assume that would be because most massage therapists I know do not like to wait 3 months to get paid for their work nor want to drop their rates to $20-$30 in order to "be in network", not because their educational hours is lacking in comparison.

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Dynamike in Blythewood, South Carolina

40 months ago

DadMike in Maryland said: If I'm ill, I'll see an MD.
If I'm injured, I'll see a PT per MD's recomendation. If the MD recommends a MT, I'll see them!
If I want a stress-releif massage, I'll see an MT.
Those professions do NOT focus on the same things.

I would like to further add that I have a BS in sports medicine/athletic training, a MA in public health, and I am a licensed massage therapist. I specialize in clinical neuromuscular therapy and I work seasonally for ME (and they are awesome to work for BTW). The only reason you pay more for PT is because of three factors: PRICE of education to become a PT (note price, not quality), malpractice insurance, and insurance networking. I do not think that a PT does too much more than I do myself, but my treatments are about half of that in our area. I admit, I am not the norm and I am probably a small percentage of LMTs, but I do not think our education is inferior to any other profession EXCEPT maybe surgeons, doctors, etc. But their education is specialized. Massage therapists can specialize in a field too and become experts.

Lastly, I do not accept tips at my practice (because I doubt anyone tips their doctor) but I sure as hell accept them when I work at ME. Different massage, different environment.

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DadMike in Maryland

40 months ago

Dynamike in Blythewood, South Carolina said: I would like to further add that I have a BS in sports medicine/athletic training, a MA in public health, and I am a licensed massage therapist. I specialize in clinical neuromuscular therapy and I work seasonally for ME (and they are awesome to work for BTW). The only reason you pay more for PT is because of three factors: PRICE of education to become a PT (note price, not quality), malpractice insurance, and insurance networking. I do not think that a PT does too much more than I do myself, but my treatments are about half of that in our area. I admit, I am not the norm and I am probably a small percentage of LMTs, but I do not think our education is inferior to any other profession EXCEPT maybe surgeons, doctors, etc. But their education is specialized. Massage therapists can specialize in a field too and become experts.

Lastly, I do not accept tips at my practice (because I doubt anyone tips their doctor) but I sure as hell accept them when I work at ME. Different massage, different environment.

Credentialling is not about greater skill. It's about setting up barriers to increase the scarcity of a skill, therefore upping wages and respect.
OTJ training is the most effective, and most professionals learn more on the job than in school. But you need the degree before you can get the OTJ.
You are correct- PTs get education that is not needed for doing pt.
But the education is more expensive, takes longer-- it produces far fewer succesful graduates. It also impresses others in the medical field that have to go through a similar process. Thus, they are paid more.
MTs face lower wages- the training needed to be a full professional in most states is brief and cheap, producing alot more grads at a quicker pace. Lowering the value of the training.
You DO have more education then you need to be a basic MT, and you've put it to good use, upping your income.
Which entirely proves my point.

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katiema

39 months ago

client said: The amount of money you pay to learn your PROFESSION, i.e. massage therapy, could not possibly be as much as a 4-year university degree or what a professional PHYSICAL THERAPIST pays to learn his or her profession.

Tips are unprofessional.[/Q
You obviously know nothing about the profession. Do some research before you speak of something you know nothing about.

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kat in Minneapolis, Minnesota

39 months ago

anonymous anonmous in Freehold, New Jersey said: To Owner/Clinic Administrator in Atlanta, Georgia:
You wrote that you want to bring "massage to the masses," and rhetorical nonsense about how can you expect a business to "pay more than half of what they make on a service" and that we massage therapists are "basically crapping in the hand that feeds you" and you find this forum's comments often "selfish and unwarranted."
Regarding quote 2: traditionally most massage places have been paying half of what is chareged for a massage and since most places that I know of still are, ME could do so if it chose to. Quote 3: Massage Envy is the one doing the crapping and is the hand that is trying to take our harvest away as they are certainly not feeding anyone. Quote 4: I find Massage Envy to be selfish and unwarranted. In addition, I find your comments and position to be selfish and noticed that ME has not opened up in cities like Newark, NJ, that have greater masses than the suburbs -- this would fit the mission that you claim better, but we know that the mission you claim is a false one. Just as Massage Envy overall does not care about massage therapists, we massage therapists should not care about Massage Envy -- have no mercy, comrades, when submitting articles to that magazine or engaging in other forms of permissable activism. If Massage Envy goes out of business, they brought it upon themselves from their extreme greed.

Massage Envy is just another corporation out to keep cost and labor low and profits high.When we were hit by this Depression,employers have the advantage.People are willing to work for poverty wages and in most businesses understaffing is normal.If we ever get back on top ,everyone will quit these types of places.Corporate greed.

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DadMike in Maryland

39 months ago

katiema said:

To be a licensed MT in most states (in states that require it) is around 500 hours. Some a bit more.
That is apx. 1/2 year of schooling.
A BA is apx. 2000 hours of schooling.
PTs often need to get a Phd, which requires an additional 4-6 years after BA.
While MTs can CHOOSE to get more education, they are not required to further their degrees. CEUs DON'T COUNT- ALL professions have them, and they are good for maintenance and keeping skills current. They don't give actual acedmic credit, unless you sign up for an actual college degree.
Tips are expected for service jobs, but not medical ones.
I wouldn't tip an MT in a chiro office or PT office or Ortho surgeon's office if I required massage for a specific medical issue, because I assume they would be adequately compensated medical staff.
I would tip an MT at a spa or ME, because they are offering service-level relaxation massage, i.e., a luxury, at best an optional preventive.

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Chris Maddy in Central Islip, New York

39 months ago

For someone that not only needs experience but money, it would appear to me that volume is more sensible if they are not afraid of hard work. There seems to be a LOT of MT's out there - getting the work could be very competitive. Also being offered clients could economically be more feasible then advertising for yourself. Do the math and see where you end up- two options 1) go on your own, less clients initially, pay for your own advertising or 2) Have a free place to work(no rent), let them give you clients, no stress worrying about when your phone will ring. Comes down to the old fashioned vitue of supply and demand.

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kat in Minneapolis, Minnesota

39 months ago

Time to kick corporate out of the massage bizz and allow people to work out of their own home,apt,ect.Same with hair stylist,manicurist,body wraps and facials.

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StacyMay71 in Denver, Colorado

39 months ago

kat in Minneapolis, Minnesota said: Time to kick corporate out of the massage bizz and allow people to work out of their own home,apt,ect.Same with hair stylist,manicurist,body wraps and facials.

Well you can’t, or should I say won’t be able to just “kick corp. out of massage” it’s just not feasible. I’m not a ME fan, but you do respect their ability to put something together that no one else has been able to improve upon until now. I’ve mentioned it in previous emails and continue to follow the progress of what I believe to be the next BIG Thing in massage. Here’s why: It touches in some form almost every blog in this forum. There are always going to be those that have to work for someone. Some people just don’t have the ability, drive, or skill set to do it on their own yet they are very talented individuals when it comes to massage. Those people will best be served with some kind of corp. structure and support. On the other hand someone such as yourself can thrive very nicely perhaps on your own with little or no support. But there is a company in the market place making a big splash. Massage Advantage is going to be a home for a lot of Therapist who want corp. structure with very little personal responsibility and stead income. They pay twice the rate as ME and do so from a clinical level. Then you have their DIY program that I have seen in the works. I’m not sure what they are calling it but it’s going to allow independents or small groups to compete head to head with any ME in the country. The model is fantastic and the concept is awesome. You will have a brand name to work under, complete marketing and adverting support, and a structure that will price point to compete with ME or any other franchise program. You’re never going to be able to keep the Green Headed Monster alone and with the supply and demand issues I’ve spoke to before they are not likely to go away on their own. The best way to take control of the market it to put more MT’s

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DadMike in Maryland

39 months ago

kat in Minneapolis, Minnesota said: Time to kick corporate out of the massage bizz and allow people to work out of their own home,apt,ect.Same with hair stylist,manicurist,body wraps and facials.

Problem with that, especially with MTs-- too many prostitutes use this is as a cover.
If anything, if MTs want more pay and respect they need to become MORE regulated and mainstream. And Massage Boards need to go after the hookers hard core and prosecute.
(In a sane world, they should legalize what consenting adults do between themselves, then the hookers wouldn't need to lie. Then save the lock up for unlicensed folk that are posing. And legalize drugs, well....this could go on and on....)

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kat in Minneapolis, Minnesota

39 months ago

In florida it is a felony to practice massage without a license.Yes sex sales should be legal and in most civilized countrys it is.It really doesn't matter what someone else does,it all depends on what you want to do.Some Doctors are just pill pushers,but we don't condem everyone called doctor and they won't see every massage therapist as a sex worker.If bussiness was put back into the homes it would make low cost startup business available to anyone.You would still need a massage,manicurist,hair stylist license even if you worked at home.That way you don't have a office rent,electric,ect to pay for and you would save money since you don't drive to work.The problem is we live in a BIG GOVERNMENT country,where every bit of our life is controled from jobs to personal.

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DadMike in Maryland

39 months ago

kat in Minneapolis, Minnesota said: In florida it is a felony to practice massage without a license.Yes sex sales should be legal and in most civilized countrys it is.It really doesn't matter what someone else does,it all depends on what you want to do.Some Doctors are just pill pushers,but we don't condem everyone called doctor and they won't see every massage therapist as a sex worker.If bussiness was put back into the homes it would make low cost startup business available to anyone.You would still need a massage,manicurist,hair stylist license even if you worked at home.That way you don't have a office rent,electric,ect to pay for and you would save money since you don't drive to work.The problem is we live in a BIG GOVERNMENT country,where every bit of our life is controled from jobs to personal.

I know in Maryland out-call is legal, and MTs DO have businesses from home. So do hair dressers and such. We even ran a small E-bay sales business from our home for a bit. You still need permits and liceneses and do your taxes and zoning permit and such, but it wasn't that hard. But every local jurisidiction can be different. If Florida bans you from it, that SUCKS! Because you are correct that it can lower your start-up costs and such. Home business is a good thing.

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