Strikes against massage

What do you feel is the #1 strike against you or the massage profession for making a decent living?

Overzealos regulatory boards that are dominated by massage schools who have no other interest than to drive the licensure hours up to increase enrollment under the guise of "public safety", hinder reciprocity between State boards for transferring licenses, and govenment bodies who do not have a clue what they are regulating but have to justify their existence.

Prostitutes pay $35-50 a year to be licensed for a 'profession' that is illegal in all counties in NV, except 2. LMT's must pay for state licensing AND Clark county and/or Vegas and/or N. Las Vegas and/or Henderson licenses which cost the active and HONEST LMT $600 - $1000 every six months to maintain. Legitimate LMT's get harassed by the govt officials while prostitutes are left alone even though they list their businesses in the yellow pages and at the top of web searches openly listing "sensual massage and escort services".

I believe the biggest hinderance is our boards. They allow us to be exploited by having stricter licencing for us than establishments.
I get frustrated to see friends accepting low wages and pay cuts, but in the end, we need to earn a living, and we need leadership that is, until now, failing us.

Leaders? What leaders?

Does anyone know who is leading the battle for allowing clinical massage therapists to accept insurance in South Carolina? The only information anyone will give is that laws are changing, and it won't be possible. Does anyone know where to begin finding this type of information

Depending on the location, lack of education.
Low education makes for ineffective practitioners which makes for an unimpressed public which creates low demand and low prices.

In a high-education area (with carryover into low-education areas), I would say that the lack of business skills is the #1 inhibitor of a successful business.

San Fransisco shares the whole 'prostitution is legal, it is called Massage Therapy' dynamic. It is bad for everybody.
California is, like a lot of places nationally, the dark ages of massage.

The massage industry's inablitiy to turn massage into a true profession. This means there are no educational standards and anyone can technically be a MT. This means a flood of people into the field which equals cheap labor. Cheap labor then equals no benefits, inadequate pay and poor working conditions. I do agree in part with Nicolay the regulartory boards really do nothing to help the massage industry. Don't get me wrong I think regulation is important but the certifications and licensing processes that MTs must go through is nothing more than for appearances. I agree with the other poster there are no leaders in massage therapy. I find this very very distrubing there is no one really representing us and that has our best interests at heart. The AMTA, NCBTMB, ABMP, ect. are really nothing more than a joke and they make alot of money off of MTs. Until MT actually becomes a profession it's better to practice it as a hobby and find something else to do for work.

#1 Hookers using our profession as a blanket
#2 should be State Governed like a Register Dental Assistant, or Esthetician so an MT can work any place in the state with out having to get a new License/permit every time they work in another city.
#3 MT's breaking the law to go to homes AKA: out calls Being legit and having a place of business
#4 Mt's performing Deep tissue when swedish was charged. Not educating Clients on the difference. (ie sweidish is less work therefore less than a deep tissue) however MT's are guilty of charging swedish and giving a deep tissue or when the client says can you do more pressure they just do it instead of saying "you have paid/booked a swedish, would you like to upgrade to a deep tissue, no problem!"

#4 Mt's performing Deep tissue when swedish was charged. Not educating Clients on the difference. (ie sweidish is less work therefore less than a deep tissue) however MT's are guilty of charging swedish and giving a deep tissue or when the client says can you do more pressure they just do it instead of saying "you have paid/booked a swedish, would you like to upgrade to a deep tissue, no problem!"

I would suggest that you charge for your TIME and not what you do, Ie. Swedish and Deep Tissue are both subjective. If someone pays for Deep Tissue and says at the end of the massage..."that wasnt deep enough!" eventhough you worked your hardest...are you going to charge for a swedish anyway? i went through this dilemma while in the beginning of my carreer and now charge for my time! so its the same price for Swedish, Reflexology, Reiki or Deep tissue. It saves any wierd issues with clients and you dont feel like you worked hard and end up not getting paid properly.
Good Luck!
E

www.massagetoday.com/columnists/stephens/

What strikes do I feel?? Well you have Back alley Massage Therapist...same as back alley abortion doc's using the wrong tool and still causeing an infection..Dirty Ninja's Tiss Tiss. One, massage is already reconized as being a medical treatment therefor not all but a lot of insurance do accept Vivian Mahonny got insurance companies to reconize. Two far as education, I mean You get basic education and understanding, but really, the rest is up to you and if you feel your education has sufford, you can educate yourself.. I wouldnt really worrie about what Other Massage Therapist charge. How they cut corners to keep clients far as charging for this and that is up to them. Maybe thats the only way the feel they can keep clients. If so Step your game up, You can do that! become the best! Far as breaking laws to go to homes. Im not sure what the Laws are where you live at, but it's not against the law here in FL. I even do out call. Right now If I want to make money and save up to get my own place, working for massage envy or places like it is only going to get me above water, Thats about it. I read all these concerns and nothing really made me go hmm good point. It's up to us to fight for what we want, it's up us to educate the clients we already have. Put common sence into them, of why this is this and why that is that. Easy..One Woman made a difference..ONE we all want the same thing, then we all can do it. Im not worried about Back alley massage therapist, Im not worried who charges what for what, and Im sure not worried about who's educated and who's not, Im sure not worried where Massage is perfeormed neither. EVERY Profession has it's strikes. You have crooked politians, You have crooked doc's you have crooked account/bookkeepers and you have it in this field as well. Be the best and you will be reconize as one of the best and the rest is down hill...You will always have dirty little ninja's doing some sh**

chiropractorsRcrooked in Canadys, South Carolina said: Leaders? What leaders?

Does anyone know who is leading the battle for allowing clinical massage therapists to accept insurance in South Carolina? The only information anyone will give is that laws are changing, and it won't be possible. Does anyone know where to begin finding this type of information

Try contacting the Office of Insurance Regulation for South Carolina, or an insurance company. Hope this helps.

I personally contacted Washington DC regulatory board governing the testing by NCBTMB and did that because I saw the money making that this group was involved in. Take a test that has no book to study from and even if you found one, it had virtually nothing to do with the study guide. Get a grade but do not know what questions you missed from a vortex of 2000 questions. Contacted Senators, local politicians etc. and finally got them to have a State license for Nevada which made it easier to obtain the license. Now comes another issue to get a outcall license and you answer all the questions, get your fees and then told that you can not get an independent license. What a crock and it is a viscous circle. Have already contacted the State Board and they are scratching their head trying to figure this out. Clark County and Las Vegas city are in this together along with the Hotels, Spas etc to prevent individuals to go to people's home to make additional income. This forces the locals and visitors to use Spas in Hotels or otherwise only. When you apply for the license, everything is fine until you pay and then it says you can not do this independently. My next move is to contact the office of Sen Harry Reid and find out what is going on in this industry. For all of you out there experiencing difficulties, my suggestion is to raise as much hell about this as possible. You have to understand that once the State took over the licensing procedures, the local municipalities lost the revenue and the vindetta is out there to cause trouble for this industry. I look forward to any comments.

medical massage, working for DO's or Chiro with PIP is the topic here.
Therapist in order to have steady income if they choose to join the work force other then2 work indepently have resorted to working 4 slave labor for these clincs and doctors where they are billing insurance for treatments.
Doctors pay therapist up wards from 10.00 to 25 hourly while billing as much as $138.00 for each session in our behalf and the patient for their care.
us therapists are not offered benefits besides. Therpsit are accepting this, allowing the mecial industry to make massive profits off of our labor, especailly when advanced education and certification is in place, doctors want highly trained therapists, but do not want to cut into their bottom line in order to bring us on board.
We must take a stand. Economy is in troubling times, many just making it and with our contiuing edeucational requirements and cost,therapist invest their money for higher eduvation and insurance and on going training too.
but where is the line drawn between prostitution of ones self, doctors are our pimps if we want a staedy paycheck Just some thoughts fight for neogotion when interveiwing the doctor will value you in the long run if we dont then who will.

vicky in Port Richey, Florida said: medical massage, working for DO's or Chiro with PIP is the topic here.
Therapist in order to have steady income if they choose to join the work force other then2 work indepently have resorted to working 4 slave labor for these clincs and doctors where they are billing insurance for treatments.
Doctors pay therapist up wards from 10.00 to 25 hourly while billing as much as $138.00 for each session in our behalf and the patient for their care.
us therapists are not offered benefits besides. Therpsit are accepting this, allowing the mecial industry to make massive profits off of our labor, especailly when advanced education and certification is in place, doctors want highly trained therapists, but do not want to cut into their bottom line in order to bring us on board.
We must take a stand. Economy is in troubling times, many just making it and with our contiuing edeucational requirements and cost,therapist invest their money for higher eduvation and insurance and on going training too.
but where is the line drawn between prostitution of ones self, doctors are our pimps if we want a staedy paycheck Just some thoughts fight for neogotion when interveiwing the doctor will value you in the long run if we dont then who will.

Hi Vicky,

I agree with alot of what you said. I made the decision to leave the massage over a year ago because of the issues you mentioned. I didn't want too it was a very diffcult and painful decision. I decided I need to focus on completeing my college education and to do that I had to get a regular job. But ultimately I agree with you massage therapists need to make a stand. I have said repeatly on this forum and to my massage community in the past that we need a union or need organize ourselvess in some sort of way. But most thought I was being over top or diffcult and unfortunately I had to make some changes in my life and I couldn't stick around any longer.

Whatever in Beltsville, Maryland said: Hi Vicky,

I agree with alot of what you said. I made the decision to leave the massage over a year ago because of the issues you mentioned. I didn't want too it was a very diffcult and painful decision. I decided I need to focus on completeing my college education and to do that I had to get a regular job. But ultimately I agree with you massage therapists need to make a stand. I have said repeatly on this forum and to my massage community in the past that we need a union or need organize ourselvess in some sort of way. But most thought I was being over top or diffcult and unfortunately I had to make some changes in my life and I couldn't stick around any longer.

But I think MTs are taken advantage of all the time by the professionals you mentioned and by our own industry. Massage really deserves alot more respected than its given. I would to see the day when MTs really do make a stand.

I agree, it seems we are not getting ahead with respect. We go to school, pay all this money to keep everyone in business but we don't move forward. The ncbtmb holds us for ransom. It seems like they don't respect their own people (membership). Maybe, we do need a union. We need to stand together. It cost us to keep our licenses and certifications but yet no one wants to pay us our worth...Chiros, spas, etc. One place I work, a Chiropractor, they go to their appts because they receive benefit from the MTs..but will they pay..no. Will they leave the Chiros to get treatment? No. Even among the LMTs, it seems to me they don't help one another. I have no problem telling another MT what my experience has been and is. Most of the one's I talk to say they do so well, that they wouldn't work for less, then...why are you working at a place that is working you to the bone and you only make $25/hr. We need to help one another, make a stand, demand more respect and make sure they don't hire us as slave labor. Best to all x

KerriG said: I agree, it seems we are not getting ahead with respect. We go to school, pay all this money to keep everyone in business but we don't move forward. The ncbtmb holds us for ransom. It seems like they don't respect their own people (membership). Maybe, we do need a union. We need to stand together. It cost us to keep our licenses and certifications but yet no one wants to pay us our worth...Chiros, spas, etc. One place I work, a Chiropractor, they go to their appts because they receive benefit from the MTs..but will they pay..no. Will they leave the Chiros to get treatment? No. Even among the LMTs, it seems to me they don't help one another. I have no problem telling another MT what my experience has been and is. Most of the one's I talk to say they do so well, that they wouldn't work for less, then...why are you working at a place that is working you to the bone and you only make $25/hr. We need to help one another, make a stand, demand more respect and make sure they don't hire us as slave labor. Best to all x

I couldn't agree w/you more on this. It doesn't make sense to sell ourselves out, especially when we work very hard.

Hi everyone. I'm brand new to this forum. I agree with many points brought up. Here where I'm at, it's legal to do out-calls, so that's not an issue with me. I do have to agree with the "cattle-herding" places, such as Massage Heights. When I was first starting out, I worked at one for a very short time. I quit because I didn't appreciate the way the treat their therapists and I questioned their integrity towards their clients.

Geez, the list is so long...

1. I work in OR & WA where insurance billing is allowed. I have to allow 20 minutes per massage for documentation, accounting, and follow-up. And I file electronically! I constantly fighting and begging for every dime.

2. You can only physically treat no more than 6 clients a day, 5 days a week. It's not like chiropractic or acupuncture where you can treat more than 1 client per hour.

3. The scope of practice is too limited. It's almost impossible to expand into other income-producing areas.

vicky in Port Richey, Florida said: Doctors pay therapist up wards from 10.00 to 25 hourly while billing as much as $138.00 for each session in our behalf and the patient for their care.

You can bill as much as you want, but insurance companies only reimburse "usual and customary fees" for services. All companies limit the dollar amount or number of visits, or don't reimburse for massage at all. Reimbursement rates vary by company, but averages $14.75 per unit (15 minutes) in my business.

Insurance billing increases administrative costs for the doctor, too. No one gets rich billing insurance, either doctors or MTs. If you're making $25 an hour working for a doctor who pays someone else to constantly harass the evil insurance companies, IT'S A GOOD DEAL!

I say start a petition. Picket!! But you have to have a great turn out in all citys and states! Insurance isnt so bad 200 or so for the whole year, not bad but damn!! try to renue, update, or change of state is just Crazy! Far as insurance go..AHH I should have done more reseach before i decided to buy the Vivian Mah. Insurance packet. Now that I read more into it, Lord... It should have already been covered if we are "medical" Im ready to go back to school for ultrasound! Im going to write the ncbtmb or the rest that Im leaving and why! Everything is Massage is costly as hell!! Including our health! Damn this Noice!!

All the money we have to pay for licensing, classes, rent, linens, marketing, etc. etc. etc.... it's like an uphill battle. Oh, don't forget all the lame crap we have to hear all the time, about if we do 'this or that'.

ohmmmassages in Las Vegas, Nevada said: Prostitutes pay $35-50 a year to be licensed for a 'profession' that is illegal in all counties in NV, except 2. LMT's must pay for state licensing AND Clark county and/or Vegas and/or N. Las Vegas and/or Henderson licenses which cost the active and HONEST LMT $600 - $1000 every six months to maintain. Legitimate LMT's get harassed by the govt officials while prostitutes are left alone even though they list their businesses in the yellow pages and at the top of web searches openly listing "sensual massage and escort services".

REALLY?!?!?!?!
I just moved here (Las Vegas). $600-$1000 every 6 months??? That's even MORE than Florida! I thought I was getting ripped off there! I just went to the Nevada Board page to get a temp lic. , and tried to find the fees...not listed...

Sean Slovik in Melbourne, Florida said: What do you feel is the #1 strike against you or the massage profession for making a decent living?

I haven't ever felt a strike on Massage Therapy. But, that may be that I am a Certified Medical Massage Therapist and Medical Manual Therapist. Somewhat rare work, so I guess nobody strikes my work.

ohmmmassages in Las Vegas, Nevada said: Prostitutes pay $35-50 a year to be licensed for a 'profession' that is illegal in all counties in NV, except 2. LMT's must pay for state licensing AND Clark county and/or Vegas and/or N. Las Vegas and/or Henderson licenses which cost the active and HONEST LMT $600 - $1000 every six months to maintain. Legitimate LMT's get harassed by the govt officials while prostitutes are left alone even though they list their businesses in the yellow pages and at the top of web searches openly listing "sensual massage and escort services".

I'm going through this B.S. again right now, but I'm trying to raise royal hell about the joke of our state board as well as the ridiculous overlapping of government mismanagement
All Las Vegas and Nv therapists can contact me at my e-mail: aikido_963@hotmail.com if you want to try and change this silliness.

Tom

vicky in Port Richey, Florida said: medical massage, working for DO's or Chiro with PIP is the topic here.
Therapist in order to have steady income if they choose to join the work force other then2 work indepently have resorted to working 4 slave labor for these clincs and doctors where they are billing insurance for treatments.
Doctors pay therapist up wards from 10.00 to 25 hourly while billing as much as $138.00 for each session in our behalf and the patient for their care.
us therapists are not offered benefits besides. Therapist are accepting this, allowing the medical industry to make massive profits off of our labor, especially when advanced education and certification is in place, doctors want highly trained therapists, but do not want to cut into their bottom line in order to bring us on board.
We must take a stand. Economy is in troubling times, many just making it and with our contiuing edeucational requirements and cost,therapist invest their money for higher eduvation and insurance and on going training too.
but where is the line drawn between prostitution of ones self, doctors are our pimps if we want a staedy paycheck Just some thoughts fight for neogotion when interveiwing the doctor will value you in the long run if we dont then who will.

I'm a very qualified MT. I am certified in Europe and in Florida. I'm so angry when I go on craigslist and see these jokers wanting MT's from $8.00 to $15.00 an hour. I know what they are charging the insurance companies and I don't understand why the insurance companies accept this and I'm not even going to start on the massage board.
There was a time when Chiropractors were laughed at and not very accepted. You think they would have a little more respect for for MT's that contribute greatly to there business.You would think it would be important to pay for qualified MT's for the sake of there clients!

Your one hundred percent right. It also seems to be the age old problem that unless your an M.D.,your not supposed to dare charge a higher fee for a healing art. It's supposed to be our calling or something. Being an LPN and working also very much with energy work, I like to combine the Western and Eastern way of thinking. Unfortunately it's hard to find another therapist who does that. They are either very left brained or very right brained. Because of this I find it hard to communicate with other therapist. It seems that they lean one way or the other. Of course I know they are out there. I just wish we all supported each other more. There are people out there who are running establishments and clinics and are paying MTs next to nothing and we go for it.It makes me very sad.

chiropractorsRcrooked in Canadys, South Carolina said: Leaders? What leaders?

Does anyone know who is leading the battle for allowing clinical massage therapists to accept insurance in South Carolina? The only information anyone will give is that laws are changing, and it won't be possible. Does anyone know where to begin finding this type of information

DId you ever find this information out?

vicky in Port Richey, Florida said: medical massage, working for DO's or Chiro with PIP is the topic here.
Therapist in order to have steady income if they choose to join the work force other then2 work indepently have resorted to working 4 slave labor for these clincs and doctors where they are billing insurance for treatments.
Doctors pay therapist up wards from 10.00 to 25 hourly while billing as much as $138.00 for each session in our behalf and the patient for their care.
us therapists are not offered benefits besides. Therpsit are accepting this, allowing the mecial industry to make massive profits off of our labor, especailly when advanced education and certification is in place, doctors want highly trained therapists, but do not want to cut into their bottom line in order to bring us on board.
We must take a stand. Economy is in troubling times, many just making it and with our contiuing edeucational requirements and cost,therapist invest their money for higher eduvation and insurance and on going training too.
but where is the line drawn between prostitution of ones self, doctors are our pimps if we want a staedy paycheck Just some thoughts fight for neogotion when interveiwing the doctor will value you in the long run if we dont then who will.

Amen to that!

If it is at all possible could you direct me to the site in OR & WA that outlines the requirement for insurance billing in those states. Perhaps if were can approach our board with valid information this will help in our fight toward respect in the Massage Profession. The first step is presentaion!!! Please e-mail that info at lblake_LMT@yahoo.com. Thanking you in advance!

Sharon in Vancouver, Washington said: Geez, the list is so long...

1. I work in OR & WA where insurance billing is allowed. I have to allow 20 minutes per massage for documentation, accounting, and follow-up. And I file electronically! I constantly fighting and begging for every dime.

2. You can only physically treat no more than 6 clients a day, 5 days a week. It's not like chiropractic or acupuncture where you can treat more than 1 client per hour.

3. The scope of practice is too limited. It's almost impossible to expand into other income-producing areas.

Lasonya in South Carolina in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina said: If it is at all possible could you direct me to the site in OR & WA that outlines the requirement for insurance billing in those states. Perhaps if were can approach our board with valid information this will help in our fight toward respect in the Massage Profession. The first step is presentaion!!! Please e-mail that info at lblake_LMT@yahoo.com. Thanking you in advance!

Lasonya, there is no site outlining the requirement for insurance billing for massage therapists. The only requirement is you must be licensed in the state. In Oregon it's the standard 500 of school, a practical exam and national written exam. Nothing further is required.

The right for massage therapists to bill insurance is fought in the state legislatures. The AMTA has some good resources on the process. Here's one for example: www.amta-or.org/lobbyistreport.htm