Academic Research to CLS Transition / Graduate Level CLS Programs

Hi everybody. I've been reading the posts on this forum and I appreciate all the input from MT professionals/students/aspiring MTs.

I have a Bachelor's degree in Microbiology, have been working for ~5 years in academic research, and am planning on getting certification as a MT/CLS. I live in Houston, Texas and want to get into MD Anderson's CLS program Any CLS from Houston know about their program? Is it hard to get in? Will my relatively substantial experience in a lab setting (albeit academic, not clinical) give me an advantage? What is the average salary for entry level MTs in the Houston area? What area of CLS is the most in-demand nowadays, and are there any opportunities for advancement?

Also, I've researched some graduate level programs, and would like to know what kind of opportunities are out there for MTs with Master's level degrees. Will this help in career advancement? Is there a considerable jump in salary with an advanced degree?

Thanks for the help and I appreciate all the feedback I can get!

swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_salaryresults.asp?op=salswz_psr&hdOmniNarrowDesc=Healthcare%20--%20Technicians&hdOmniTotalJobsFound=81&pagefrom=selectjob&hdZipCode=77241&geometrocode=75&hdLocationOption=0&countertype=0&jobcounter=1&hdJobCode=HC07000017&hdJobTitle=Medical%20Technologist%20(ASCP)&hdJobCategory=HC02&hdNarrowDesc=Healthcare%20--%20Technicians

From salary.com the average salary of an MT in Houston, Texas is 56K a year. Having a masters will not affect your salary as an MT. What it can do is allow you to advance quicker and easier into being a supervisor and even higher. While you don't need a masters to become a supervisor or lab manager, most labs prefer it.

Thanks for the response!

Yes, I have looked up the salary reports from different sources - Salary.com, Monster, the BLS, and HR websites from the major hospitals in Houston, but they give varying reports on salary. I suppose this is understandable as salary depends on different factors, such as experience, size of company, etc., but from what I gather from these websites the salary is indeed in the low to mid 50's annually. However, many of the working MT's in this forum (some have many years of experience) have posted that their salary is in the low 40's. This is quite a big disrepancy. A salary of 40k a year is decent, but I am making a big time and financial commitment to go back to school full time for a whole year, and I would certainly hope to make a salary of AT least in the mid 40 to low 50's range straight out of school.

What's the demand like for MT managers? Is it hard to get a supervisory/manager or a Chief MT position in this field? How many years of experience do you have to have? How demanding/stressful are the management postitions? Are there any other avenues for certified Medical Technologists beyond the clinical laboratories?

Thanks again for the help and any clarification would be greatly appreciated!

Well, I am sure the salary is close to 55K a year average, meaning some people may make higher and some people make lower. I can only tell you what I know from my experience here in California, which tends to pay higher then the rest of the nation. Out of school a few years ago, I started out close to $29/hr which is about 60K a year, as a licensed MT(ASCP). I believe now, most of the hospitals in LA such as UCLA start the med techs at about $30 an hour with a range of up to $44 an hour based on experience.

One thing I've kind of noticed is that reference labs tend to pay lower than hospitals. Some of the labs around here such as Specialty labs and Quest have incomes starting around $25 to $26 an hour. Maybe that has changed but I'm not sure.

Salary.com gave a salary range for Houston, Texas similar to my area, with a median of around $55K a year so I'm sure the hourly wages are comparable.

There is a demand for MT managers, but generally you need about 5 years of experience and some supervisory experience to even be considered for manager. As I said, a masters would help. I believe the pay is just a bit higher than an experienced bench tech pay, because it is salaried and not hourly. That means they stay late hours, may have more worries, and don't get paid as much as a bench tech who works OT and doesn't have to worry about supervisory concerns. In fact, from my experience, most people prefer to just be bench techs as there is less stress and the pay is comparable to salaried supervisory positions. Lab managers get paid more so that is a different situation.

MTs can work in reference labs, fertility clinics, departments of health for the state in micro positions, public health positions, forensic positions after police experience, technical specialists at biotech companies that make instruments for labs such as Roche or Beckman, and a lot more. There are alot of different things you can do with an MT degree and I do recommend it.

One thing I forgot to mention about pay is the different shifts. Every hospital has a pm shift and night shift differential. They usually add $2 per hour on top of your base pay for pm shift and maybe $4 an hour for a graveyard shift. That is, if you make $29 an hour base pay on a graveyard shift, and the differential is $4 an hour, you really make $33 an hour which is a big difference.

This is the advantage of a pm shift or night shift as opposed to the traditional day shift. Also, most labs give a weekend differential which could be anywhere from $2 to $4 more hour regardless of which shift you work. Most labs have rotating weekends so if you work a graveyard shift weekend, you could get your base pay plus up to $7 to $8 more on top of that $29 per hour.

Also, most med techs have per diem jobs when they're not working full time to supplement their income so I'm sure you can find ways to make a decent income as an MT.

That is really encouraging. The flexible schedules, variety of work settings, and compensation are very appealing. Thank you!

What do you think is the downside of this profession, if there is any? Based on your experience, do hopistal labs have a certain kind of politics that is unique to them (e.g., rigid work structure, constant deadlines, quota on workload, micromanagement)? How easy or difficult is it to get ahead?

Also, what area of clinical lab do you think is in most demand these days? Microbiology? Hematology? Which area do you work? Which one would you recommend? What are the advantages/disadvantages of being a generalist (or a specialist for that matter)? What is the work environment like for each of these fields? Are there any patient interaction at all? I would assume that it is very limited, or perhaps indirect.

Again, thank you for the great advice and very knowledgeable information!

I would say the downside is the repetition of the same tasks over and over in some departments. This could be spinning specimens, plating micro samples, looking for a specimen to run that was lost somehow, etc. Most careers have some repetition and it's something you get used to. As far as politics, each hospital has its own and if you know the right people, you can easily move up in its structure.

Depending on the department such as chemistry, hematology, and blood bank, you may get a lot of stats and doctors and nurses calling you for results. Many times this can cause tension with the nursing staff which is why you see alot of med techs dislike nurses also for the fact that nurses get paid more for knowing less than MTs.

I'm a generalist and prefer to be one so I can get a bit of everything. Chemistry is the most automated, hematology is automated with some microscopic work, blood bank requires alot of manual work with attention to detail especially when someone is bleeding, you want to make sure you give them the right blood, and micro takes alot of analytical thinking but exposure to bad pathogens is more of a risk.

Since you've worked in a micro type job, that may be suited for you. Micro has basically no stats so it's a work at your own pace type of job. The only thing you have to worry about is mycology and tb since that stuff can get you really sick. You probably will have to do a rotation program and there you will see which department you like the best. The general rule is first try to be a generalist to pick up everything, and then you can specialize once you know what you like.

As far as patient interaction you basically will have none. If you want that, this is not the field to go into. However, most MTs like the job just for the fact you don't have to see sick people all day and yet you still are helping them. After all, physicians make 80% of their medical decisions based off of lab results.

Actually I haven't done any micro-related stuff in a while, although I have worked with bacteria (Staph aureus and Pseudomonas mainly) for animal experimentation in a cell biology lab (I made plates, broths, cultured bacteria, mouse infections, . The work mostly involved mouse work - necropsies; histology (tissue harvest/processing/sectioning/staining); ELISA, Western Blots; microscopy. In my current job I mostly do DNA work - mostly genotyping and PCR, and some sequencing. I would say my basic lab techniques are pretty good - micropipetting, titrations, making solutions, centrifugation, etc., and I do like the working with my hands and the technical aspect of it, as well as getting involved in the analysis of data. My question is this: will any of these skills be helpful, if applicable, to medical technology or any clinical lab? Will this make CLS school easier? Or am I to expect to basically start from square 1?

Also you mentioned that you live in California. Could you give me an idea of how the job market is for CLS over there (particularly in your vicinity). I believe that the average going rate for med techs is higher than most areas in the country, but will this be enough to live comfortably in a big city such as San Francisco?

Many thanks for the advice and info as always.

PCR and genotyping experience is really good. You probably could get a good CLS job in immunology. Molecular genetics is becoming a popular field so it would help. The job market is great in CA. Just by doing a search you can find alot of jobs available. I am not sure how much things cost in San Francisco, but 60K is plenty for one person to live on. Of course if you have a family then it would help if your wife worked, or you took a part time job.

In fact most CLSs do have a part time or per diem job bumping their pay to 70K, 80K, or 90K easily, not to mention opportunities to work overtime making 1.5x your base pay. It all depends on how much you are willing to work.

How are the salaries in illinois

CLS48 in California said: One thing I forgot to mention about pay is the different shifts. Every hospital has a pm shift and night shift differential. They usually add $2 per hour on top of your base pay for pm shift and maybe $4 an hour for a graveyard shift. That is, if you make $29 an hour base pay on a graveyard shift, and the differential is $4 an hour, you really make $33 an hour which is a big difference.

This is the advantage of a pm shift or night shift as opposed to the traditional day shift. Also, most labs give a weekend differential which could be anywhere from $2 to $4 more hour regardless of which shift you work. Most labs have rotating weekends so if you work a graveyard shift weekend, you could get your base pay plus up to $7 to $8 more on top of that $29 per hour.

Also, most med techs have per diem jobs when they're not working full time to supplement their income so I'm sure you can find ways to make a decent income as an MT.

CLS48, could you please explain what per diem entails in detail? I know you get paid more cuz no benefits but that is the extent of my knowledge. Is it like being on call? or do you say to the hospital or company, "I will only work this many days a month and these are the days i want to work." Anyway, Id appreciate you dropping some wisdom here. Thanks!

CLS-HOPEFUL in Glendale, California said: CLS48, could you please explain what per diem entails in detail? I know you get paid more cuz no benefits but that is the extent of my knowledge. Is it like being on call? or do you say to the hospital or company, "I will only work this many days a month and these are the days i want to work." Anyway, Id appreciate you dropping some wisdom here. Thanks!

Per diem depends by hospital and how flexible they are. I work one day a week for 8 hours each day, which comes out to 4 days a month of extra work for me. Some may require you to work at least one weekend in the month.

People usually work full time in the day, and work per diem on a pm shift or night shift or you can work both day shifts, just coordinating with your per diem job when you are available to work. Sometimes you can even work 4 hours or half a shift if the hospital will let you.

So pretty much, you can tell the per diem job what days and when you want to work and they will schedule you then. They also may call you if one of their full timers calls in sick and they need a replacement, but it's usually up to you if you want to work.

The good thing about per diem or even a part time job is that you can work as much as you want to make as much money as you want. Just my 4 days nets me a bit over 1K a month. If I wanted I could work more but I just don't feel like it.

Many of my coworkers work in the day, then work another shift in the pms a few times a week. They can easily make over 100K the amount they are working. I'd say when you're young it's doable because to me being a CLS is easy and not that tiring. I can see though if you have a family and want to see your spouse or kids it can get in the way.

I think that a MS in clinical lab science will enhance your education but it did nothing for me in the MT field. In the business field it helped a little, but the science was very advanced (molecular biology) and I didn't use most of the technical and scientific education I've gained. The comprehensive exam to graduate and get a MS was extremely challenging-I graduated from Northeastern with a MS in Medical Technology

CLS48 in California said: The good thing about per diem or even a part time job is that you can work as much as you want to make as much money as you want. Just my 4 days nets me a bit over 1K a month. If I wanted I could work more but I just don't feel like it.

Many of my coworkers work in the day, then work another shift in the pms a few times a week. They can easily make over 100K the amount they are working. I'd say when you're young it's doable because to me being a CLS is easy and not that tiring. I can see though if you have a family and want to see your spouse or kids it can get in the way.

I am not a MT yet but I will start the program next month with an AA transfer. I love this forum i am always on it, reading and paying attention to your comments. CLS48 keep it up because you make a difference. I learned a lot so far about MT and i want to know if you have to be on your feet all the time when you work. I had two plans this year. Plan A get in pharmacy school plan B become an MT. Well i didn't get in pharmacy school but got in MT school. I am a pharm tech now always on my feet and i was hoping MTs dont necesarily have to be on their feet like that. Please let me know thank you.

daffy in Fort Lauderdale, Florida said: I am not a MT yet but I will start the program next month with an AA transfer. I love this forum i am always on it, reading and paying attention to your comments. CLS48 keep it up because you make a difference. I learned a lot so far about MT and i want to know if you have to be on your feet all the time when you work. I had two plans this year. Plan A get in pharmacy school plan B become an MT. Well i didn't get in pharmacy school but got in MT school. I am a pharm tech now always on my feet and i was hoping MTs dont necesarily have to be on their feet like that. Please let me know thank you.

Thanks. In general, I'd say maybe half the day you are sitting and half standing. But there is a lot more sitting than as a pharm tech I would say because the lab usually has seats everywhere. You usually sit to do microscopic work, to release results on the computer, crossmatch and type in blood bank, read plates in micro, or perform manual serology tests. You probably have to get up to do maintenance on instruments or put specimens on instruments. So the amount of sitting depends on the department you are in.

Thanks for the reply. Be blessed

To those of you transitioning from academic research to MT/CLS--I'm doing it, too. I think that my 9 years' experience definitely help me, especially in the lab classes. What is transferable is familiarity with laboratory equipment, reading and following protocols. When the instructor says "use a micropipettor", you already have the thing in your hand, tip attached, and set to the appropriate volume. You know to always balance the centrifuge. You have used a spectrophotometer, and know how to insert the cuvette. You know how to dilute a stock solution to make a given volume of a working solution. You know how to do serial dilutions. You know how to use a microscope and use the oil objective.

I think it's also helped that I'm familiar with life science terminology and concepts. It made immunology a lot easier to already know what phosphorylation and dephosphorylation were, how translation happens, how enzymes work, what conformational changes mean and why they are important, how to follow biochemical pathways, where a mouse thymus is located, how cell culture is done, what selective media is...

Overall, it means that you may not be as rattled as your less-experienced classmates. It doesn't mean you will be the top student in your class. It does mean that you won't have to learn a whole new vocabulary and set of techniques as well as the material.

Hi all,
Great work on sharing the real time information on this forum. Thank you all for the information.
I am thinking of getting into the MT program this year. I work as a respiratory therapist and I am tired of working 12 hours and night shift( Not very fond of direct patient contact either). I want to be more normal and enjoy my social life. Is there a chance of landing a day shift job straight out of school ?

You live in California, the wages are very high. Therefore the chance of acceptance at a MT school there is competitive, CLS48 would be able to give you more info but I believe there is always a job to be had in this field in any place around the country.

PUUCI,

If you do live in Tustin, CA, your options for CLS programs are Loma Linda, Cal St. Dominguez Hills, UCI which only accepts a few students after you have your bachelors, and Quest in San Juan Capistrano for a limited CLS license once you have a bachelors.

You can work a day shift out of school if you are willing to work at smaller hospitals or areas in CA that aren't that populated. Or you might be able to get one at a hospital or reference lab you trained at. At the larger or university hospitals, it would be more difficult because CLSs from pms or graveyard usually fill those positions and then their old positions open up.

That is down the road though. As Rohan said, all the CLSs programs are competitive now so you should concentrate on getting in first.

I currently have a BA in biological sciences with a science GPA of 3.7 and overall GPA of 3.5. I live in NYC and thinking about relocating to CA and enroll in a CLS training program. From what I see, it looks like I'm missing pre-requirements- immunology, hematology, medical microbiology, and quantitative analysis. Based on this fact, it looks like Dominguez Hills or Loma Linda would be a good option (though I'm not entirely sure of this judgement) as opposed to other programs where I'd have to wait another yr to apply so that I can fulfill my pre-reqs. I found that at Loma Linda, I don't need to finish my pre-reqs prior to the start of the program. Dominques Hills seems the same way based on the duration of the program (plus the advantages of having low tuition cost!) although I couldn't verify entirely of this fact through their website. I am interested to know more about the Quest route to CLS licensure (microbiology specialty to be specific)as it would be nice to be paid while training but could not find info on their website. How can I obtain information pertaining to Quest's CLS training program? Also, is it absolutely necessary to have experience in the clinical field as a lab technician of some sort to get in CLS programs? I have some experience as a technician at a univ research lab and an animal clinic. I also volunteered at a VA hospital and taught science at a public school for a year. Are these experiences considered valuable as an applicant? Because I was also thinking about taking some time to complete the pre-reqs for a yr before CLS training while gaining work experience in the clinical field. Any advice here would be greatly appreciated!

You can try calling Quest in San Juan Capistrano. However, I recommend against this option because you only get a specialized license. You will be more marketable and have more options getting a generalist CA CLS license.

Strain,

As I mentioned on your other post on the other thread, your cost may not be as low as you may think because you are a non-resident. So "hope for the best, but plan for the worst," as the cliche goes. Furthermore, I second CLS48. I am not a CLS...yet...but I know enough to want to make sure I become a generalist first...specialize later (after a few years of experience under my belt).

Another thing is that generally, the answer is NO...you do not need to have experience as a lab technician to be accepted into a CA CLS program. Is experience beneficial? Sure! Because CA CLS Program big wigs want to know that you, as a CLS-Potential, understand the rigor yet sometimes monotonous nature of lab work. And lab experience outside of your academic undergraduate career is a great way to fully comprehend that. But understand that your "competition" will most likely have experience in some shape or form. Other than the undergraduate students at DH, all my current colleagues, including yours truly, are either working CPT's or at least have their CPT license, and/or are currently or have had worked in a laboratory as lab technicians.

Volunteer work is always good, showing that you have a penchant for providing health care to the masses directly/indirectly. And teaching science, well at least it shows science is your niche and its another notch on your resume I guess. Plus, if you show you can teach, then perhaps once your are a CLS, you can pay it forward by teaching those who come after you...etc. So yes, all your experiences are relevant in some way.

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Lastly, you GPA is good. But I have seen better and I have seen worse. My point is, its a good backbone to rely on, but its not everything. The Director at CSUDH as well as other directors from other CA programs all informed me that they know of 4.0'ers who were rejected because they all flopped on the interview. INTERVIEW IS CRUCIAL. It may sound easy, but trust me, being stared at AND questioned by 15-20 CLS's, most of whom carry specialties, all of whom are either supervisors or managers, and depending on the school you interview at, clinical pathologists, is nerve wracking and highly intimidating!!

Anyway, as CLS48 and ROHAN already mentioned, getting into an internship program here in CA is HIGHLY competitive. But...its not impossible either. :o)

Do you know how many people apply to Loma Linda and how many seats are available? I figure if tuition costs are going to be high anyway for a non-resident, I might as well go for a private inst. like Loma Linda... that way, I can do my pre-reqs through the CLS program and then do the clinical portion?

CLStrain in Seoul, Korea, Republic of said: Do you know how many people apply to Loma Linda and how many seats are available? I figure if tuition costs are going to be high anyway for a non-resident, I might as well go for a private inst. like Loma Linda... that way, I can do my pre-reqs through the CLS program and then do the clinical portion?

Sorry also... do you know by any chance what the employment percentage is of graduates from Loma Linda?

To clarify, there are some prereqs that need to be done prior to starting the 2 year program. At the time you apply and are accepted, they don't have to be done but right before you start they have to be. You can find them here:

www.llu.edu/allied-health/sahp/clinlab/mtprogramprere.page?

However, hematology, immunology, biochem, micro is all done the 1st year of the program. It is pretty intense, but if you study hard it shouldn't be a problem. 4 years ago there was about 50 people applying for 20 spots. There is no interview and once you're accepted you're good to go as long as you don't fail out of the program. Now though, it may be more competitive.

However, I would venture to say that it's one of the best CLS programs in CA, but also the easiest to get in. The best because in the 2nd year, they allow you to rotate at 5 different hospitals so you see how other labs are. DH and even UCI's program only sticks you in one. It is best to see different labs because each lab is run surprisingly differently. It is the easiest because people are turned off by the high tuition meaning less applicants, and no interview means it's just based on gpa and extracurriculars.

All LLU grads get jobs and about half work at the large university hospital itself which is a great hospital. However, you will be able to get a job anywhere using your 4 or 5 different training sites as experience on your resume.

As far as tuition, loans will cover it. Getting a per diem job that pays extra should help pay it off faster. Since you are coming from out of state, I recommend it because you don't want to mess around with DH waiting maybe more than 2 years and not even sure if you can get in. Once accepted in LLU, it means you will be a CLS after 2 years. Here's the FAQ

www.llu.edu/allied-health/sahp/clinlab/faqs.page?

I just sent my attestation letter, hopeful of getting accepted to a training program. [ B.S. Biochemistry w major in Clinical Analysis]

My question is, LFS and the Univ/Hospitals will only accept me in programs near my town? (San Diego). What happens after I send that letter?

p.s. this forum is awesome =^..^=

The interview? UH OH!!! Is ' the interview ' for admission to the clinical year? What kind of stuff do they ask?

wormer in Carson, California said: The interview? UH OH!!! Is ' the interview ' for admission to the clinical year? What kind of stuff do they ask?

Generally speaking, you will be interviewed by 3-6 people, including the program director, senior techs, possibly a student, and possibly a Pathologist. Questions can vary dramatically from program to program, but expect the obvious (why do you want to join this field, how did you choose your undergraduate major, what are your long-term goals, do you see yourself advancing into other fields).

Most will also often have some impromptu test of your scientific acumen, to see if you really know what your degree says you know. One program I know asks each applicant to read and interpret a bloodbank procedure revision article on-the-spot.

if i get a phlebomist license and work as a phlebotomist, will it make my application to a CLS program look far better? i already have a bachelors in biology with all the CLS pre reqs done and a cls trainee license.

No I doubt it. It's better to work as a lab assistant doing technical work such as at a reference lab. Phlebotomy has really nothing to do with being a CLS. In fact as a generalist CLS, you are required to know it anyway and are supposed to be licensed to do it in CA.

CLS48 in California said: No I doubt it. It's better to work as a lab assistant doing technical work such as at a reference lab. Phlebotomy has really nothing to do with being a CLS. In fact as a generalist CLS, you are required to know it anyway and are supposed to be licensed to do it in CA.

thank you for the reply, but this hospital here in town told me if i didnt get into the program that is coming up, i should get a phlebotomist license and work for them and they would let me run the machines too assisting the CLS people, and i could put that on my next application/essay. you know, because the hospital would know that my goal is CLS and i could essentially come back and work for them.

You don't need a license to run the instruments. Lab assistants do that without one. Seems like a waste of time. Try other training programs if you can.

Thank you all for putting together such an encouraging and informative forum! I'm also changing my career direction from research to CLS, but since my undergrad courses (majoring in biochem) and experience were research-oriented, I do not know how to convey the message/impression that I'm interested in the CLS profession now. I love working in the lab, but I only worked in a research lab before, so that was a different kind of lab, which is not persuasive enough. I like helping others, but people can be subjective on whether or not to believe me. Though I'm seriouly want to pursue the CLS career now, but I cannot tell specifically why, as many people may have a specific/personal reason or story to convey their choice of career. Could anyone give me some help here? Thank you.

Also, what are the differences for working in a reference lab compared to a hospital lab? what are the pace difference? The level of stressfulness? Thank you very much for your input!