Doctorate in CLS, a step forward to increase standards in the lab

The doctorate in CLS is the next step to promote our profession. Such a move would increase standards in the lab and would increase salaries. NAACLS has already produced guidelines for the DCLS in universities. It is only a matter of time.

www.ascls.org/currentevents/documents/DialogDis_Winter%202008.pdf

Taken from part of the article:

"This generalist DCLS’ knowledge will supplement and support the focused knowledge of clinical laboratory PhD specialty scientists as well as the practice of medical doctors in fulfilling quality responsibilities in the clinical laboratory.

Most likely, rules regulating the practice of specialty scientistsin the clinical laboratory (e.g., CLIA, state-specific licensure laws) will apply to these new DCLS degrees. Additionally, a more non-traditional role of consultation is envisioned and supported in the literature. There is growing evidence of physicians’ need for advice on laboratory test selection and interpretation of complex and diverse laboratory test options and results. The DCLS will be formally educated as a key resource in disease prevention and management, thus reducing the burden of practice related to CLS among physicians."

This is what our profession is coming to, increasing standards like all other ancillary professions. The DCLS has to have total control over the lab, while the pathologist can take care of the anotomical area and grossing.

This is a great step forward, and the more autonomy we have, the more standards we will have, soon all the test results will have DCLS on the page instead of MD.

I do think one way to decrease healthcare costs for patients is to educate doctors on ordering appropriate tests. We have some doctors that just order everything and hope they get an answer because they know the patient has good insurance.

Although it should probably be the lab director's responsibility to educate doctors and nurses, they probably don't get a lot of respect from medical doctors because they don't have a doctorate.

I do agree that a professional doctorate degree in CLS is a very appealing prospect, for reasons stated above, and also because it offers a career ladder for clinical laboratory professionals. Perhaps when colleges/universities start graduating DCLS, medical technology won't be seen as a stepping stone to other health science careers anymore, but a real and viable career path in itself. Now, the question is when are universities going to start offering DCLS programs? I for one am very interested in applying.

This has got to be a joke.

Like people have been telling you time and time again, standards are increasing in ALL ancillary fields, so you as the mlt will be the cheap labor in the equation.

Pharmacy = pharmD
Physical Therapy = DPT
Lab = DCLS

My university will start the DCLS degree in 2010 and I will be applying.

Hi Ricky. Which university do you attend?

Michigan State university pending approval.

Most of the techs I know went for the MT degrees because it was quicker and easier than a traditional degree. Will this be the same? Will any master’s degree qualify as a prerequisite or does it need to be a masters in CLS? The PHD's here think this might be too much trouble for what it's worth and they did laugh a bit.

Ricky said: Like people have been telling you time and time again, standards are increasing in ALL ancillary fields, so you as the mlt will be the cheap labor in the equation.

Pharmacy = pharmD
Physical Therapy = DPT
Lab = DCLS

My university will start the DCLS degree in 2010 and I will be applying.

Nice that's good to hear that universities are starting it. I may apply as well.

Annie2 in Frisco, Texas said: Most of the techs I know went for the MT degrees because it was quicker and easier than a traditional degree. Will this be the same? Will any master’s degree qualify as a prerequisite or does it need to be a masters in CLS? The PHD's here think this might be too much trouble for what it's worth and they did laugh a bit.

It won't be too much trouble providing that the salaries are commensurate with education.

I came across this archived presentation from the CDC - it raises some really good points in favor of advanced clinical practice for laboratory professionals. Here's the link:

wwwn.cdc.gov/cliac/pdf/Addenda/cliac0906/AddendumN.pdf

From the article that Daniel pointed to:

Current status cont.
-- Chronic problems are exacerbated by the shortage
-- Lack of clear distinctions between levels of practice contribute to attrition – CLS/MT vs CLT/MLT
-- CLT/MLT staff believe they are doing the same job for less pay
-- CLS/MT staff feel their skills are under used
E.g. eliminate microbiology and blood banking from CLT scope of practice

It looks like if you don't want to be management, work in microbiology or blood bank, MLT might be the future qualifying standard.

Larry you are a moron, if they eliminate blood bank and micro in a MLT/CLS curriculum, who would hire a tech that is limited when you can hire a MT that can work in all departments of the lab.

According to Daniel article, if they do make that distinction in the scope of practice, MLT will not be hirable bc they would only work in the automative departments. MLT would be so far from the standard if they ever changed the MLT scope of practice.

In large hospitals the generalists usually do not do micro (maybe gram stains and setups) and BB. The MLT is quite hireable due to the current hospital discriminatory hiring practices and it's not the MLT that drives down salaries it's the hiring practices of American companies. We are all about cheap slave labor and high profits for a select few.

Daniel in Houston, Texas said: I do agree that a professional doctorate degree in CLS is a very appealing prospect, for reasons stated above, and also because it offers a career ladder for clinical laboratory professionals. Perhaps when colleges/universities start graduating DCLS, medical technology won't be seen as a stepping stone to other health science careers anymore, but a real and viable career path in itself. Now, the question is when are universities going to start offering DCLS programs? I for one am very interested in applying.

Me too. But i can't seem to find accurate info on the opening of DCLS programs. If i were you i'd give it a fews years and see how its working for new grads just in case it is not worth the amount of loans you would accumulate at the end of the program. I will definitely keep an eye on it.

Ricky said: Like people have been telling you time and time again, standards are increasing in ALL ancillary fields, so you as the mlt will be the cheap labor in the equation.

Pharmacy = pharmD
Physical Therapy = DPT
Lab = DCLS

My university will start the DCLS degree in 2010 and I will be applying.

what university do you go too. Im looking for programs

Hi all,

I'm graduating with a BS in Microbiology this spring, going for my internship at a hospital this fall. I am interested in DCLS and found this webpage helpful since it lists the schools that offer the graduate program:

www.ascls.org/leadership/Docs/ASCLS%20Online%20Directory_CLS.doc

Larry in Richardson, Texas said: This has got to be a joke.

Agreed.
It doesn't make any sense to me.

Why bother ?

You can get a PHD in biochemistry and that's just as good, or in microbiology if you want to go in that direction.

I don't see it serves any useful purpose.Sounds like somethinga university/college put together as a made up field of endeavor to charge a high fee to anyone they can dupe into applying.

PHD in biochemistry, they do not do any extensive training when dealing with hematology, coagulation, blood bank.

The DCLS can be clinical director, it is a broad knowledge of all the diciplines in the lab. How can a microbiology PHD be a clinical director? Do they have the training in hematology or coagulation or even chemistry.

Its called cutting costs, instead of hiring a pathologist for 250K you can hire a DCLS for 80-100K.

Todd MT (ASCP) in Lewisville, Texas said: PHD in biochemistry, they do not do any extensive training when dealing with hematology, coagulation, blood bank.

The DCLS can be clinical director, it is a broad knowledge of all the diciplines in the lab. How can a microbiology PHD be a clinical director? Do they have the training in hematology or coagulation or even chemistry.

Its called cutting costs, instead of hiring a pathologist for 250K you can hire a DCLS for 80-100K.

Not quite true...

In state with licenses they generally have a tech with a supervisor's license running the lab and the pathologist usually is the titular head of things as well as doing things like bone marrows, cytology/histology/looking at cancer cells and that kind of thing as well as autopsies in some cases.

The pathologist does a lot of stuff not directly related to the lab anyway....so you need one around for that.

The idea that you could do away with one isn't practical in most cases.

This is just another degree a university came up with to attract students and make money..but it's of dubious value.

Angry I disagree,

The Clinical Lab can be run by a PHD, I have seen it before, there is no MD influence. Now since there is a general DCLS degree, this degree will give you a broad range of the WHOLE lab, therefore you can run the clinical lab. Any type of malignant cells can be screened by a MT and referred to a oncologist, that is what we do at my current hospital. We have no CONTACT WITH THE PATHOLOGIST AT ALL, EXCEPT FOR THIS Dr's NAME ON TOP OF ALL VERFIED REPORTS.

Of course the Anatomical Side will still go to the pathologist. If you look at the guidelines to run a lab, you just need a DOCTORATE DEGREE, even a PODIATRIST OR PHARMACIST can run a clinical lab because of their doctorate degree. So why would you have other diciplines trying to run a lab when you can create a doctorate FOR THE LAB.

A friend I have working with me, his father owns his own laboratory, he has a DO friend that signs off on all his results, this DO never checks any of the work, its all protocol, so yes the doctorate would be advantages, this degree is NOT FOR MANAGEMENT becuase you can be a MT and manage the lab, this degree is for a CLINICAL DIRECTOR of the lab, so that persons name will go on ever verified test ie Dr xx DCSL, instead of a pathologist.

This is a portion of the article from the bereau of labor statistics:

Professional certification and a graduate degree in medical technology, one of the biological sciences, chemistry, management, or education usually speeds advancement. A doctorate usually is needed to become a laboratory director. Federal regulation requires directors of moderately complex laboratories to have either a master's degree or a bachelor's degree, combined with the appropriate amount of training and experience.

Here is the link:
www.bls.gov/oco/ocos096.htm

No hard feelings.

We'll see how it works.

States like TN where there are Health related boards running things..including permits for labs.....might not like the idea.
They like the idea of an MD being at the end of the food chain.

So we'll see what they think about this in due time.

All the places I have worked there has always been an MD either in a controlling or a consulting role.

I don't see hospital based labs agreeing to being controlled by a non-MD at all.

But we'll see.

That is what they said about NP, Nurse Anes, PA's. This is all about cutting costs.

Most of the surgeries done at my hospital has Nurse Anes, instead of MD anestia, same thing with the ER, there use to be 2 MD's at all times, now there is one MD, one NP and one PA..

Trust me, a DCLS opens doors like any other doctorate. I just want the program to start already so we can have students graduating in the next couple of years.

I agree with Todd. There are nursing schools coming out with Doctorate of NP. These degrees upon graduating, the DNP will have FULL AUTONOMY, they do not need a MD to oversee them.

I guarentee you, ERs will start hiring them, and hospitals for their hospitalist, if its a complex case they would just refer out to a specialist.

If they can pay a DNP 100K vs paying a MD 200K, they will go for the cheaper route.

I see them doing that with a DCLS, the pathologists in the clinical setting are worthless, they never come by our lab, they just get paid for every test we run. I see changes coming, we have to wait and see when schools start graduating DCLS students.

Exactly Saber, if they are licensed and can legally work without a MD, there is no way in hell that a hospital would rather shell out more money if they can hire someone that can do the same job.

This is the same case with the MLT MT arguement, this is why the MD want to be the ONLY DEGREE TO PRACTICE MEDICINE. This is why the MT wants to be the ONLY DEGREE TO WORK IN THE LAB. To keep wages high.....same old arguement...

I see the DCLS becoming directors of hospitals labs easily. Right now these people mostly just have master degrees. I know that some labs just need a registered bioanalyst to run the lab here in CA, so a DCLS should be more than enough to run the lab on his or her own.

That article is pretty vague on details of day to day activities. Sounds like a purely administrative type thing with the DCLS getting pulled between patient counseling, interpretation of doctor testing orders while simutaneously attending lab issues. Sounds like all the lab related activities that doctors/pathologists and nurses have always wanted to dump anyway. I'm wary but I'm dying to see in practice before I jump to any conclusions. It should be entertaining.

In states like TN that have health related boards if those boards insist a pathologist or other MD be involved in the process it won't happen.

I feel some of you are hoping this is real....that it would boost the profession and maybe give you a way to advance in the profession.

I'm not unsympathetic to that.

Just hope your hopes don't get crushed along the way by unrealistic expectations.

This curriculum sounds great. What are the requirements for getting in? A minimum requirement of a B.S. or M.S. in Medical Technology?

The only problem I have with the concept of a DCLS program is that I love love love being at the bench. I just finished my CLS generalist program (postbacc, but not Masters'), and my very favorite parts were the student labs and most of all, the clinical lab rotations. But I knew that when I started this program--I came out of 9 years at the bench in a research lab. I love stuff like putting things in the centrifuges, feeding the analyzers, maintaining the analyzers, troubleshooting the analyzers, looking at slides (wet mounts, stained, I'm not picky), streaking plates, doing serial dilutions, using the volumetric pipets to dissolve standards and reagents, reviewing results, speculating on what's wrong with a patient with abnormal results, making blood smear slides, staining slides, clearing automation jams, scanning barcodes, dousing benches in bleach solution, fishing for clots... I like the constant activity in a high-volume lab. I even like the hum of the machines. The only thing I didn't like much was scooping poop for C. diff toxin ELISAs.

I worry that if I pursue a DCLS that someone might try and put me in management. I do not want to sit in the office and review logs and printouts. The only reason I might go for a DCLS or some kind of Masters' degree is so I could teach at the local community college (general microbiology, intro cell biology or if they ever do a CLT program). And again, I mostly want to teach the laboratory portion and run around like my usual lunatic self.

Lisa skip the masters go straight for a doctorate, I am getting tired a wating for these DCLS schools to open so I am applying to a pharmD program after I take my PCATs this summer.

A doctorate opens alot of doors, if you open your own lab you can run your own tests and get full profit because it will be your name on top that will used as clinical director.

Ricky said: Like people have been telling you time and time again, standards are increasing in ALL ancillary fields, so you as the mlt will be the cheap labor in the equation.

Pharmacy = pharmD
Physical Therapy = DPT
Lab = DCLS

My university will start the DCLS degree in 2010 and I will be applying.

What sgchool is this. I ahvgent found any school offering the degree before 2012

I am interested in asking how many of you work in a Lab where there may be a operation manager or like position where this person may not be a MT
where each area has a supervisor MT and A PHD Medical Director
But may have some type of Manger that has other roles and does agood job ??

oldman58 in Nashville, Tennessee said: I am interested in asking how many of you work in a Lab where there may be a operation manager or like position where this person may not be a MT
where each area has a supervisor MT and A PHD Medical Director
But may have some type of Manger that has other roles and does agood job ??

I have worked for 12 years in the field as a generalist, supervisor, and contract technologist. Contract work allowed me to experience many different health care systems across the United States, and I have never seen anyone in a laboratory management position without a MT degree. The position may exist, but due to the specialized nature of the work laboratorians perform, it makes managing a lab with no understanding of the business a bit tricky, if not outright dangerous. The closest thing we would have to a management position that doesn't have the degree is human resources, and I believe most health care systems employ those as a separate department.

In addition, due to the fluctuations in employment in the field, many managers and directors are having to fill in for practicing technologists when they are on leave or the position is open. This tends to limit the utility of a manager that cannot 'fill in' during a short-staffing situation.

I am continually surprised by the variety of organizational structure present in health care, however. You might find a place that fits your description with a bit of leg work.

Daniel in Houston, Texas said: Hi Ricky. Which university do you attend?

utmb in galveston is looking to start their program in dcls very soon. you may want to check there!