Non Prime Underwriters YOU caused all the problems....

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Comments (9)

Oceans11 in Aliso Viejo, California

68 months ago

I wanted a catchy title so I could get enough people to respond but of course I don't believe this however if you look at all the recent Underwriter opportunities you can see the tone truly shifting towards this attitude now. Luckily I have several years of prime experience but for those who ONLY underwrote for lenders such as New Century, Encore or Ameriquest & the like it appears your possibilities of obtaining a mortgage underwriting gig just became tougher with ads like "Prime A paper underwriters ONLY" or "Non Sub Prime experience ONLY"

I just saw an ad that was pathetic stating, "Our client is a conservative who doesn't want underwriters from a "chop shop" environment". So for those who came from places like Ditech or Greenlight it just became even tougher for you as well.

Correct me if I'm wrong but underwriters didn't make up the guidelines, they just enforced them as part of their overall job responsibilities. Also, loans are defaulting & collapsing just as fast & as badly in the "A" paper world as they were in the sub prime world.

And being an underwriter who worked in both prime & non prime it's MUUUUCH easier to "pull back" then it is to "loosen up " and that's a fact.

I laugh because first it was, "Blame the brokers for the meltdown" & now it's "Blame the non prime underwriters". The mortgage industry needs to wake up.

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Meezer in Indianapolis, Indiana

67 months ago

I hear you. My company went from "A" paper to eventually being a sub prime lender. They were bought out in 2007 and I became unemployed. No certificate to flash anywhere and now no one will hire. I was always tighter in my reviews and told to losen up. I'm willing to bet with 25 years in the industry I'm better qualified to underwrite than most with new DE certificates - but since I came from what is now considered chop shop underwriting I'm now considered "unqualified". Not to mention I'm having a hard time getting anyone to see how transferable my skills are.

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Oceans11 in Aliso Viejo, California

67 months ago

And I hear ya back!
Isn't it a weird twist of fate that the departments (sales) who caused a lot of the mess still have jobs popping up all over the place? There's at least a dozen postinSg for sales this & sales that in every newspaper or on line listing. But underwriters became expendable! Your guardians of credit are all of sudden not worth your time or effort???

Another irony is with all the money lenders spent on lavish holiday parties & corporate jets & big dividend pay outs now all of a sudden they have to pull the strings back & be cheap. Hey Mr. Lender you want to know why your ad for FHA Underwriter with DE cert & 5 years experience just sits there for weeks & weeks in some cities? It's because 95% of us went conventional!!

I'm telling you if someone would have the business savvy to get permission, backing & funding from the government you could write your own meal ticket! I don't even have an extra $1000 but if a legit government DE cert school opened up & would gladly pay $2500 + to get that cert!

But once again I'm lucky, a large healthcare group OPENED their eyes (unlike commercial banking) & put 2 & 2 together & realized that it's possible to transfer underwriting skills. That although it's much more demanding & difficult it CAN be taught. It's not a position appointed by God (as commercial underwriting thinks).

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susan in Baltimore, Maryland

67 months ago

The problem is you have to be "sponsored" by a DE to get your certificate. The only way is to get in say as a processor and re-work yourself back up. You must alos be an employee, can not be a contract worker.

Good luck to you.

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Oceans11 in Aliso Viejo, California

67 months ago

Uhhhh, no disrespect but yeah I think we knew that already. Most u/w who've been in the game for more than a few years know the route to get the DE cert it's just a ridiculous route to have during these times. You're basically locked out without the DE cert.

That's not really the problem though, the problem arises when the path to obtain the Cert is shutoff as well. Trying to get a job as a processor & working you're way back up in this economy & hoping someone (most likely younger than you) will wag that carrot or biscuit in front of you (like a good lil dog) at a more advanced stage & age like in your 40's or late 30's even is not an option for most. Weird & misplaced as it may seem but myself personally would like to keep SOME form of dignity & not lose all sense of self respect just to obtain the DE.

Also the solution to this is super easy & it's solved by opening up the DE certification up to privately owned companies (monitored by HUD/FHA) so that individuals can still get certified. That's a win/win situation because the proprietor gets paid & the person wanting the certification gets their DE cert.

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Caren Fleet in San Diego, California

64 months ago

Oceans11 in Aliso Viejo, California said: I wanted a catchy title so I could get enough people to respond but of course I don't believe this however if you look at all the recent Underwriter opportunities you can see the tone truly shifting towards this attitude now. Luckily I have several years of prime experience but for those who ONLY underwrote for lenders such as New Century, Encore or Ameriquest & the like it appears your possibilities of obtaining a mortgage underwriting gig just became tougher with ads like "Prime A paper underwriters ONLY" or "Non Sub Prime experience ONLY"

I just saw an ad that was pathetic stating, "Our client is a conservative who doesn't want underwriters from a "chop shop" environment". So for those who came from places like Ditech or Greenlight it just became even tougher for you as well.

Correct me if I'm wrong but underwriters didn't make up the guidelines, they just enforced them as part of their overall job responsibilities. Also, loans are defaulting & collapsing just as fast & as badly in the "A" paper world as they were in the sub prime world.

And being an underwriter who worked in both prime & non prime it's MUUUUCH easier to "pull back" then it is to "loosen up " and that's a fact.

I laugh because first it was, "Blame the brokers for the meltdown" & now it's "Blame the non prime underwriters". The mortgage industry needs to wake up.

Lenders need to remember that often times it was the underwriters telling the powers to be that there underwriting guidelines were to lenient and it was a accident waiting to happen. So to blame the underwriters for the mess is a bit far fetched. The directive starts from the top down, it does not start with the underwriter. But if we really want to place the blame where it belongs lets start with the borrower who signed docs for payments they knew they could not afford. Remeber the borrower who had to have it all now and did not want that starter home.

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Derrick in Dallas, Texas

63 months ago

I can remember the times (early to mid 90's) when the underwriting staff was respected, the ops manager ran the office and business was good. ALL OF A SUDDEN, the underwriters were reporting to sales managers, account managers were able to talk crazy to the underwriters, AEs were considered gods and, the whole business went to h e l l. I saw this coming when second signature was coming from a sales manager with less than 5 yrs experience in sales period (not necessarily mortgage) and his previous job was as a car salesman. When salary.com was being overridden on stated deals with exaggerated income, when I'd get called in the office (u/w with 10 yrs u/w experience, 15 yrs industry exp)and get reprimanded for over analyzing the file. I actually told the sales manager at People's Choice, "my job is to make sure we all have jobs tomorrow". He thought I was to stringent. Well, he is now looking for a job and I am working steadily (commercial u/w).

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Oceans11 in South OC, California

63 months ago

Derrick in Dallas, Texas said: I can remember the times (early to mid 90's) when the underwriting staff was respected, the ops manager ran the office and business was good. ALL OF A SUDDEN, the underwriters were reporting to sales managers, account managers were able to talk crazy to the underwriters, AEs were considered gods and, the whole business went to h e l l. I saw this coming when second signature was coming from a sales manager with less than 5 yrs experience in sales period (not necessarily mortgage) and his previous job was as a car salesman. When salary.com was being overridden on stated deals with exaggerated income, when I'd get called in the office (u/w with 10 yrs u/w experience, 15 yrs industry exp)and get reprimanded for over analyzing the file. I actually told the sales manager at People's Choice, "my job is to make sure we all have jobs tomorrow". He thought I was to stringent. Well, he is now looking for a job and I am working steadily (commercial u/w).

I hear ya Derrick! We all know sales is important but when the shift in of quality control went from underwriters to sales that's when all hell broke loose!

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Mary in Clinton Township, Michigan

61 months ago

It's tough out there alright. Even contracting is not all its cracked up to be. On a local level - I agree with the prior comment, the folks higher up are the ones who created the issue. When told that I was being too tough and to loosen up then it was no good as I was too loose. Conventional was the way to go as government was kind of obsolete but is now coming back into the picture as people have little/no money as well as credit. Now have to get back into government world - not an easy picture. Locally there are a few shops here that I wouldn't give my eye teeth to work there - sweat shops. We work hard enough and then to have to be subjected to garbage. Maybe that's what I need to do is go commercial - haven't figured out how to transfer yet.

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