Advice for a paralegal student?

I only received one response to this, so I am posting again in hope of more feedback:

I would greatly appreciate as much thoughtful feedback as I can get on this. I am in my late 40s and making a career change.

I excel at obtaining info (whether it be in person, by Internet or by other research), writing and interviewing people; vocational aptitude and interest tests consistently pointed me to the paralegal field. I do find law interesting and I am detail oriented.

I am now in my second semester of a paralegal program and I have had serious concerns about my future in the field. I have had to drop classes two semesters in a row because 12 hours of paralegal classes proved much harder than it was carrying 18 hours in my major when I was in college decades ago. (I work part-time at a dead-end job, but at least it's decent pay.) I generally score 90 or above in paralegal classes.

Still, the law books seem to remain foreign to me, learning proper citation makes me feel as though I have dyslexia (I don't) and I'm told I read too much into case scenarios. I have never been able to raise my typing speed to more than nearly 40 wpm, despite decades of typing. I fear I lack aptitude and interest.

I asked my school's adviser for guidance, and she said paralegals need to be neat, organized, detail oriented and able to meet deadlines. Out of those, I am definitely not neat, and while I can be organized, I'm not sure I'm organized in a way lawyers could find it organized.

I am worried that my return to school will do little to dig me out the career hole I feel I have been in, and I'm not a young person.

Thoughts?

I reiterate my advice from before. I'd think twice about joining the legal profession if I were you. The stress and hostility one encounters in so many law offices is not worth it. I agree with your school's advisor about being organized, detail oriented and deadline-conscious. Depending on how anal the lawyers are, you might be able to slip by with a disorganized desk.

Typing speed matters only if your job duties entail transcribing dictation or attorneys' handwritten (!) copy. For a couple of years in my last job I had to transcribe dictation. I taught myself the cassette recorder and foot pedal, and got by.

Finally, use your Bluebook to help you with cites. It takes most people awhile to get the hang of reading legal style.

Here's a little more food for thought. Two words: Age discrimination.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Here's a little more food for thought. Two words: Age discrimination.

You sound like an experienced paralegal and age does not have to be a deterrent because you can always look at becoming an independent or freelance paralegal. Your success depends on what you believe you can do. It does not depend on what others say you can do. Let go of those elitist labels; who cares if you have an ABA credential or a regionally accredited credential It all about your belief in yourself and your ability to sell you.

The virtual paralegal is becoming a hot market and the entire U.S. is open territory for a work at home Paralegal.

Here is an interesting link from the National Federation of Paralegal Associations:

www.paralegals.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=378

Phoenix in West Babylon, New York said: I will be running a series on the Freelance and Independent Paralegal on my Blog. You can check out the first installment under Freelance Paralegals at:
newyorkparalegal.blogspot.com/

You shouldn't be using Indeed's free fora for self-promotion to the detriment of its paid sponsors.

Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "You sound like an experienced paralegal and age does not have to be a deterrent because you can always look at becoming an independent or freelance paralegal."

Bullsh!t. The long and short of it is there is little difference between employment at a firm and self employment. The only difference is you pay your own employment taxes and health insurance. You still have to sell a firm on your services, whether or not you're a potential employee or a contractor. You also don't get Workers' Comp if you are a contractor.

"Your success depends on what you believe you can do. It does not depend on what others say you can do."

Bullsh!t. Your success in large measure depends on what others say you can do, because they're the ones who will engage your services.

"Let go of those elitist labels; who cares if you have an ABA credential or a regionally accredited credential...."

The employer and/or user of your services cares. Need I say more?

"It [is] all about your belief in yourself and your ability to sell you."

I believe in myself but that's not enough. I need substance to back it up - such as a track record, references and credentials.

You have some real misconceptions, my friend.

Phoenix in West Babylon, New York said: The virtual paralegal is becoming a hot market and the entire U.S. is open territory for a work at home Paralegal.

More misleading baloney.

Lawyers understandably want their paralegals in the office with them. Work-at-home is a privilege which may be conferred upon paralegals who've established themselves in firms. My last firm set up work-at-home ability for a paralegal because she demanded it, but she still spent her time primarily in the office. Otherwise, I have encountered only one paralegal who worked at home because she just had a baby.

I work in New York you work in Colorado, so you can not compare the job market in New York to the job market in Colorado. Furthermore, I do not have any paid sponsors on my Blog so I am not guilty of self-promotion. Additionally, you have no vision and you seem a little bitter. Maybe that is the reason you are a displaced paralegal? My goal is to motivate and inspire those in the paralegal profession not to tare them down. Have you thought about some of the non law firm opportunities that are available for paralegals?

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: More misleading baloney.

Lawyers understandably want their paralegals in the office with them. Work-at-home is a privilege which may be conferred upon paralegals who've established themselves in firms. My last firm set up work-at-home ability for a paralegal because she demanded it, but she still spent her time primarily in the office. Otherwise, I have encountered only one paralegal who worked at home because she just had a baby.

Have you thought about becoming a legal document preparer a lot of Independent paralegals are offering legal document assistance to the public in many States check to see if it is permitted in yours. Another profession that paralegals are making money in is the Notary Signing Agent business check to see if you are permitted by law to offer that service in your home State.

Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "I work in New York you work in Colorado, so you can not compare the job market in New York to the job market in Colorado."

Why not? Getting a job is getting a job, though I would give you the point that there are more jobs available in NYC-North Jersey because it's bigger than Denver. I cannot speak for Long Island, where you are.

"I do not have any paid sponsors on my Blog so I am not guilty of self-promotion."

You are guilty of self-promotion in every way. You're trying to drive readers to your blog. You should pay Indeed for advertising your blog instead of ripping it off.

"Additionally, you have no vision...."

So? I live in the real world.

".... and you seem a little bitter...."

Only telling the truth. Maybe you cannot handle the truth.

"Maybe that is the reason you are a displaced paralegal?"

My situation is irrelevant to this discussion.

"My goal is to motivate and inspire those in the paralegal profession, not to [tare] them down."

Wrong homonym. I am sure you mean "tear." My goal is to tell the truth about becoming a paralegal and the pratfalls one encounters.

"Have you thought about some of the non law firm opportunities that are available for paralegals?"

Yes. Do not patronize me; I was in this business for several years. I'm fully aware insurance companies, corporations, government, industry, et cetera use paralegals.

Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "Have you thought about becoming a legal document preparer. [A] lot of [i]ndependent paralegals are offering legal document assistance to the public in many [s]tates. [C]heck to see if it is permitted in yours...."

Not permitted in Colorado.

"Another profession that paralegals are making money in is the Notary Signing Agent business. [C]heck to see if you are permitted by law to offer that service in your home [s]tate."

I am a notary. One doesn't have to be a paralegal to be a notary.

One other point about notaries. Notaries in Colorado can charge $5 max per notarization. One will sure get rich on that fee, especially with $3.77 per gallon regular.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "Have you thought about becoming a legal document preparer. [A] lot of [i]ndependent paralegals are offering legal document assistance to the public in many [s]tates. [C]heck to see if it is permitted in yours...."

Not permitted in Colorado.

"Another profession that paralegals are making money in is the Notary Signing Agent business. [C]heck to see if you are permitted by law to offer that service in your home [s]tate."

I am a notary. One doesn't have to be a paralegal to be a notary.

I never said they did. However, a paralegal background impresses the mortgage companies that use notaries as signing agents.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: One other point about notaries. Notaries in Colorado can charge $5 max per notarization. One will sure get rich on that fee, especially with $3.77 per gallon regular.

You don't know what a signing agent is?

I found more than one typo in your comments but I will not point them out in this informal forum.

:)

There are no restrictions in Colorado about being a signing agent and Notary Signing agents can make from $35-$175 dollars a signing:

www.nationalnotary.org/sections/index.cfm?text=nsAgentFAQ

Phoenix in West Babylon, New York said: I found more than one typo in your comments but I will not point them out in this informal forum.

:)

Why not? ;->

Phoenix in West Babylon, New York said: There are no restrictions in Colorado about being a signing agent and Notary Signing agents can make from $35-$175 dollars

Sorry. The fee cannot exceed $5 per notarization. Sec. 12-55-121, Colo. Rev. Stat., Colorado Notary Handbook at p. 24.

Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "[A] paralegal background impresses the mortgage companies that use notaries as signing agents."

Nonetheless, one need not be a paralegal to engage in this work. I have tried to find work with title companies, etc. because I learned such companies like paralegals. No luck.

Something else you failed to consider regarding this recommendation. Housing sales are down. Good luck earning enough to make a living.

"The stress and hostility one encounters in so many law offices are not worth it. "

"The only differences are you pay your own employment taxes and health insurance."

(corrected)

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Sorry. The fee cannot exceed $5 per notarization. Sec. 12-55-121, Colo. Rev. Stat., Colorado Notary Handbook at p. 24.

If you go to the link you will understand how it works. The mortgage company or bank will pay you for your time and travel. You will get a better description of how it work by clicking on the link I posted.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: "The stress and hostility one encounters in so many law offices are not worth it. "

"The only differences are you pay your own employment taxes and health insurance."

(corrected)

You are cool! :)

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "[A] paralegal background impresses the mortgage companies that use notaries as signing agents."

Nonetheless, one need not be a paralegal to engage in this work. I have tried to find work with title companies, etc. because I learned such companies like paralegals. No luck.

Something else you failed to consider regarding this recommendation. Housing sales are down. Good luck earning enough to make a living.

It is not hard to find work in New York the big firms pay the big bucks to those with a BA/BS it does not have to be in paralegal studies the firms will train. The smaller firms are desperate and they take what they can get.

Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "If you go to the link you will understand how it works. The mortgage company or bank will pay you for your time and travel. You will get a better description of how it work by clicking on the link I posted."

That said, the original poster asked for advice about becoming a **paralegal,** not a "notary signing agent." I stand by my advice to the original poster and all subsequent comments regarding becoming or being a paralegal.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "If you go to the link you will understand how it works. The mortgage company or bank will pay you for your time and travel. You will get a better description of how it work by clicking on the link I posted."

That said, the original poster asked for advice about becoming a **paralegal,** not a "notary signing agent." I stand by my advice to the original poster and all subsequent comments regarding becoming or being a paralegal.

Are you really that...

Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "It is not hard to find work in New York. [T]he big firms pay the big bucks to those with a BA/BS. [I]t does not have to be in paralegal studies. [T]he firms will train. The smaller firms are desperate and they take what they can get."

Not around here. There are a great many well-qualified people competing for very few jobs. Smaller firms have their pick. Firms don't want to train even experienced paralegals on their systems.

Once more, I'll give you the point that NYC-North Jersey would have more openings simply because that area is large.

Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "Are you really that..."

What?

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "It is not hard to find work in New York. [T]he big firms pay the big bucks to those with a BA/BS. [I]t does not have to be in paralegal studies. [T]he firms will train. The smaller firms are desperate and they take what they can get."

Not around here. There are a great many well-qualified people competing for very few jobs. Smaller firms have their pick. Firms don't want to train even experienced paralegals on their systems.

Once more, I'll give you the point that NYC-North Jersey would have more openings simply because that area is large.

I think it is like the Walmart situation. In some states people are running to get a job at Walmart because it is the only game in town. In New York, Walmart is the last place you would apply for a job.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "Are you really that..."

What?

I will never tell.

Phoenix in West Babylon, New York said: I will never tell.

Whatever.

I stand by my comments.

Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "I do not have any **paid sponsors** on my Blog so I am not guilty of self-promotion....."

You don't?? So what do you call all those Amazon.com ads on your blog? What do you call the ad for Blackstone Paralegal Studies? Or Brides in Style?

I stand by my comment in that regard, above.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "I do not have any **paid sponsors** on my Blog so I am not guilty of self-promotion....."

You don't?? So what do you call all those Amazon.com ads on your blog? What do you call the ad for Blackstone Paralegal Studies? Or Brides in Style?

I stand by my comment in that regard, above.

It is nice to see that you actually looked at my Blog. lol :)

Phoenix in West Babylon, New York said: It is nice to see that you actually looked at my Blog. lol :)

....and your paid sponsors LOL! ;->

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: ....and your paid sponsors LOL! ;->

Believe me the way that it works, I do not get paid anything unless a sale closes. I think I made 2 cents with a Google add once. Don't believe the hype.

Nonetheless, Phoenix, **paid** sponsors. I stand by my comment.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Here's a little more food for thought. Two words: Age discrimination.

Thanks. I appreciate your thoughts. Anyone else?

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Nonetheless, Phoenix, **paid** sponsors. I stand by my comment.

Good day. It may be improper of me to reach out to you today, however, here it goes. I have recently grad. from a 4 year university (19 /12 yrs. old) & do not know as of yet what exactly I desire to do with my life. My thinking is to gain some full time work experience, well, thats a plan for now. I have an upcoming Paralegal interview & wanted to know whether you might be in the position to share any interviewing tips? I mean, what type of questions potentially should I be alerted to? Can you share?

Paralegal student in Knoxville, Tennessee said: Thanks. I appreciate your thoughts. Anyone else?

Sorry, I'm 19 1/2 years old.

They will probably ask what skills you have that will be good for law and how you think your course of study or major may have prepared you for a career in law. They may also ask why you are interested in law. They will probably ask about writing and communication skills, computer skills, abilty to multitask, and organization skills. They realize you have no experience and will focus on your raw skills to try to get an idea of what kinf of aptitude you will have when it comes to learning the job. If you've read over some of the paralegal forums on here, you've seen that first paralegal jobs can be hard to get and usually pay little. You're at a good point right now because you are still young enough to get out if you decide law is not for you or to go on to law school is you decide you really love it (as a side note, I woudl reccomend law school ONLY if you really love law and are confident you can work hard for the three years and come out relatively high in your class at a relatively good law school). Also, since you are young and probably have few financial responsibilities you can afford to take a low paying job simply for the opportunity to learn. I know you asked about interviews and not about all that other stuff, but I thought I'd throw in some other advice. :) Oh, I would also not count on a paralegal salary getting you very far in NJ as you get older and want to have a house, family, ect.

Mike in Toms River, New Jersey said: I have an upcoming Paralegal interview & wanted to know whether you might be in the position to share any interviewing tips? I mean, what type of questions potentially should I be alerted to?

It's not improper of you at all to reach out; that's why these fora are here.

I would advise you not to go into law. Nonlawyer work is thankless and stressful. Lawyers are among the most toxic of personalities. They are difficult, demanding, selfish and immature. Lawyers believe the world turns around them. They expect you to put in more hours than a normal workday. They rarely thank you or recognize you for your efforts, and they do not reward loyalty.

With that said, a paralegal interview isn't too terribly different from other job interviews. Just remember that any job interview is a sales presentation. You must sell the interviewer on your skills and yourself. You also need to prepare.

Preparation involves research. Research the law firm, its attorneys, paralegals, if possible, and its practice areas. Know the history of the firm. Understand the skills a paralegal requires, which include but are not limited to computer abilities, organization skills, excellent writing abilities, organization skills, analytical abilities, organizational skills and interpersonal abilities. Did I mention you should have good organizational skills? Strong organizational skills will save you from attorney hassles, which you will experience frequently, guaranteed, and will help maintain your sanity.

You will probably be asked to tell the interviewer about yourself. Come up with a short but complete speech about your background, your education and how your background and education relates to law. You may be asked why you want to be a paralegal (why, indeed?). You may be asked to describe your strengths and weaknesses, with a strength being used as a weakness. You could be asked about salary requirements.

Continued, below..

Continued from above...

You should prepare a few questions for them. You can ask them the qualities a paralegal should have to be successful at the firm. Ask about weekly, monthly and yearly billing requirements. Ask about schedule. Ask why the position is open. How many candidates they're interviewing for the position, further steps after your interview. I would not ask about benefits until a second or third interview. DO NOT bring up salary.

Finally, a good book to read about interviewing is "Landing The Job You Want: How to Have the Best Job Interview of Your Life" by Byham and Pickett. The book discusses the SAR behavioral job interviewing method which is now in vogue, but is really a good prep for any job interviewing method.

Hope that helps.

What about those that have been looking for a paralegal position since May 2007 and haven't been able to get a paralegal position all because they don't have any office experience?

Para in Springfield, New Jersey said: They will probably ask what skills you have that will be good for law and how you think your course of study or major may have prepared you for a career in law. They may also ask why you are interested in law. They will probably ask about writing and communication skills, computer skills, abilty to multitask, and organization skills. They realize you have no experience and will focus on your raw skills to try to get an idea of what kinf of aptitude you will have when it comes to learning the job. If you've read over some of the paralegal forums on here, you've seen that first paralegal jobs can be hard to get and usually pay little. You're at a good point right now because you are still young enough to get out if you decide law is not for you or to go on to law school is you decide you really love it (as a side note, I woudl reccomend law school ONLY if you really love law and are confident you can work hard for the three years and come out relatively high in your class at a relatively good law school). Also, since you are young and probably have few financial responsibilities you can afford to take a low paying job simply for the opportunity to learn. I know you asked about interviews and not about all that other stuff, but I thought I'd throw in some other advice. :) Oh, I would also not count on a paralegal salary getting you very far in NJ as you get older and want to have a house, family, ect.

Hey Springfield NJ, Thank you for sharing great information. Outstanding & do Appreciate all of it.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Continued from above...

You should prepare a few questions for them. You can ask them the qualities a paralegal should have to be successful at the firm. Ask about weekly, monthly and yearly billing requirements. Ask about schedule. Ask why the position is open. How many candidates they're interviewing for the position, further steps after your interview. I would not ask about benefits until a second or third interview. DO NOT bring up salary.

Finally, a good book to read about interviewing is "Landing The Job You Want: How to Have the Best Job Interview of Your Life" by Byham and Pickett. The book discusses the SAR behavioral job interviewing method which is now in vogue, but is really a good prep for any job interviewing method.

Hope that helps.

Dear DLP, Yes indeed, you have assisted me greatly! Thanks for being so generous with your time today in providing with me with outstanding insight. My plan is to get prepared! P.S. I've ordered the book you've suggested. thank you once again!

Thor Thorson Jr in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin said: What about those that have been looking for a paralegal position since May, 2007 and haven't been able to get a paralegal position all because they don't have any office experience?

I recall you from the other thread and I hear you. You may recall I wrote you that getting that first paralegal job is an SOB. To use that worn-out phrase again, it's a Catch-22. To get the job you need experience; to get experience you need the job. But IMO office experience as such should not matter. Plenty of new paralegals who've never worked in offices get jobs.

I didn't have office experience as such when I set out to be a paralegal. The paralegal skills you bring to the table matter. You just have to keep trying.

Mike in Toms River, New Jersey said: Yes, indeed, you have assisted me greatly! Thanks for being so generous with your time today in providing with me with outstanding insight. My plan is to get prepared! P.S. I've ordered the book you've suggested. Thank you once again!

No problem. I'm happy to provide information. I think you'll like the book. I still would urge you to think twice about working in law.

As someone who graduated from college before age twenty, you undoubtedly offer motivation, intelligence, ability, talent, and superior learning and study skills. IMO you should look at work that harnesses your abilities to the hilt instead of settling for being a drudge paralegal.

I might be a little late but I wanted to comment. My advice to you is to get a job in a law firm while you are in school. Even if you are just in the mail room or a receptionist. It will give you a chance to get a feel for how a law firm works and who playes what role. Smaller firms will give you more chances to branch out and learn new things. In a larger firm, you have a better chance of good benefits, moving up, and even tuition reimburcement. I have not begun my paralegal studies just yet but I plan to start in the fall. I became inspired to enter the legal feild while working as a receptionist for a small firm.

To comment on the person who said the hostility is not worth it, the most important thing I have learned while working here is to understand that unless you did something terrible, any hostility that you are recieving is not directed at you. Clients will yell when they are upset with their situation, lawyers will yell when the clients are upset. I have cried a good amount of times until I realized they weren't yelling at me, they were yelling at the situation. This can happen anywhere you work.

mable in Lawnside, New Jersey: "To comment on the person who said the hostility is not worth it, the most important thing I have learned while working here is to understand that unless you did something terrible, any hostility that you are receiving is not directed at you."

Not true. I worked directly for attorneys for more than eleven years. Of course, personalities vary, but I worked for an attorney who was caustic and disrespectful to me off and on for nearly seven years. I could never figure out why he was that way or what I had to do to make that individual happy.

Among other things, that SOB mocked my voice and how I speak. I was in on-air radio for several years long before I went into law. How I speak had nothing to do with clients being upset or with a situation or anything like that. It had everything to do with his passive belligerence and self-admitted abruptness. "Yelling at situations" does not excuse his behavior toward me.

You shouldn't put up with attorneys yelling at you, Mable. Your receptionist job is one of the toughest in the law firm. Attorneys have no right to yell at you or anyone at any time. It's all about respect. I don't believe that word is in most attorneys' lexicon.

I had clients I didn't like or who were uncooperative or annoying, but most of them were at least cordial if not friendly, and cooperative. I was glad to hear from all clients most of the time.

I'm always happy to provide information and experiences about paralegal work. But I stand by my position absolutely that the stress, long hours, lack of recognition, hostility and the toxic personalities are not worth going into law.