Advice for a paralegal student?

You have your opinion, but I am living proof. Paralegals are the backbone. Paralegals do all the work for the attorneys, in most cases, the Paralegal knows just as much, if not more than the attorney (I encourage you to get your law degree). A lot of attorneys were paralegals. And your salary, believe me, when you're good at what you do, you are worth $125 - $200 an hour. As a paralegal, you also have the option to freelance. All you skeptics who really do not know the real potential of being a paralegal should just say "I do not know" and stop responding like you really know what you're talking about. If you aren't good at your job, of course you are not going to get the great pay. Like I said, the only real difference between an attorney and the paralegal is, the paralegal is unauthorized to practice law. Be encouraged and go for it.

Well, you drink your kool-aid, and I will drink whatever I want. If you think small, you will live small. There's a big world out there with a lot to offer, stop playing with the pennies and go for some real money. I am a NY native, and I now the real potential as a working paralegal. You are the backbone of the firm. I do not know what firms you have encountered that disregards your worth. Go to another firm. I would not work with anyone that is disrespectful. Most para/atty team is just that, a team. Best wishes to you all.

By the way, as a paralegal, your field is broad, you have the skills, education and capability to work at other companies and business, not just law firms. Work for the government, insurance companies, banks, real estate, etc. There's a big world out there, make your mark. Stop relying on others' opinions that are negative and small. You also have the option to change your career, become a nurse. Best wishes.

Wezzie, are you related to Fuzzy Wuzzie?

FACTS: Legal jobs are not in demand. Most paralegals are glorified secretaries. Few paralegals have their own secretary. (What for - take a phone message, paper filing?) Paralegals draft documents and review documents for important information. Paralegals have billing requirements - and better meet them.

Most paralegals are on a power trip. Even attorneys are unemployed.

Are you an angry paralegal? Maybe that's why you are paid slightly above minimum wage. LOL! Please stop directing your frustrations at me, I am only giving the Paralegal Student some positive feedback to her concerns, from my positive perspective. I don't know what you have experienced, sorry you haven't been as successful as you wanted. If you don't like what you do, do something different. Have you head, you have choices! Stop disecting things in a negative manner, it's draining. Best of luck to you.

OOOPS.....your information comes from what you've read, I am living what I am sharing. I'm sorry where you live, you not worth much. MOVE! Best of luck to you. It is childish to continue to go back and forth with you when I know what I'm talking about from experience and your information comes from what you've read. Do you.

Are you at war with me, calling me names, because you are an unhappy, angry paralegal..... I will never circum to your level. Go away, your negative energy is draining. So sorry for you.

LOL, was any of this useful to or for you? I'm so glad I'm not an angry person looking for preys. I'm done.

I was considering pursuing a career in law, but judging from the horror stories I've hear from people who've been there, I think it would be wise to choose another occupation.

OMG is this a pity party? I worked in the title industry for 15 years and (still working part time)now have a real estate license and going to paralegal school! Maybe you should get into teaching where you can make all the corrections you want!!!!

Now may if you learn to play right, you would not have all this drama Queen!!!

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Phoenix in West Babylon, New York: "It is not hard to find work in New York. [T]he big firms pay the big bucks to those with a BA/BS. [I]t does not have to be in paralegal studies. [T]he firms will train. The smaller firms are desperate and they take what they can get."

Not around here. There are a great many well-qualified people competing for very few jobs. Smaller firms have their pick. Firms don't want to train even experienced paralegals on their systems.

Once more, I'll give you the point that NYC-North Jersey would have more openings simply because that area is large.

DPL- I guess growing up, you were never yelled at? You have done something wrong, and you didn't get yelled at? What planet are you from? People,Parents,Attorney,client etc. just come out and yell, because you done nothing wrong? You might want to exam yourself..

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: mable in Lawnside, New Jersey: "To comment on the person who said the hostility is not worth it, the most important thing I have learned while working here is to understand that unless you did something terrible, any hostility that you are receiving is not directed at you."

Not true. I worked directly for attorneys for more than eleven years. Of course, personalities vary, but I worked for an attorney who was caustic and disrespectful to me off and on for nearly seven years. I could never figure out why he was that way or what I had to do to make that individual happy.

Among other things, that SOB mocked my voice and how I speak. I was in on-air radio for several years long before I went into law. How I speak had nothing to do with clients being upset or with a situation or anything like that. It had everything to do with his passive belligerence and self-admitted abruptness. "Yelling at situations" does not excuse his behavior toward me.

You shouldn't put up with attorneys yelling at you, Mable. Your receptionist job is one of the toughest in the law firm. Attorneys have no right to yell at you or anyone at any time. It's all about respect. I don't believe that word is in most attorneys' lexicon.

I had clients I didn't like or who were uncooperative or annoying, but most of them were at least cordial if not friendly, and cooperative. I was glad to hear from all clients most of the time.

I'm always happy to provide information and experiences about paralegal work. But I stand by my position absolutely that the stress, long hours, lack of recognition, hostility and the toxic personalities are not worth going into law.

I have worked in the entertainment field (two record companies; interned at one radio station) and also in journalism in which I worked for a local newspaper and magazines while at college. Honestly no field is worse than journalism and the entertainment industry as far as egos, abuse, and even drug use. I have worked as a paralegal for nearly 13 years now. I only encountered maybe four horrible attorneys during my career that I would absolutely refuse to work with. I have been fortunate that I had a stable career (with the exception of my downsize in early 2009) and I worked some great people, including attorneys.

I think anyone can find themselves working in a toxic environment, regardless of the industry or field that they are in. I have friends who are teachers who quit because their principals unduly harassed them. I also have friends who settled lawsuits due to intellectual property and corporate property theft. My friends worked in IT, finance, and journalism. Toxic personalities are not exclusive to the legal profession. If one finds themselves in a toxic environment, do what you need to do and just get out! If you feel you are underpaid, just start looking. If you are somewhere for longer than 2 years and there is no light at the end of the tunnel and you hate going to work everyday, time to move on.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: You see, Betty, [your] problem is on you are on the outside looking in. You've obviously drank paralegal school kool-aid. You've never worked for attorneys, obviously. So you are no position to hassle others about their experiences.

(corrected)

I'm pretty sure Betty worked with plenty of RE attorneys and paralegals during her career.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: ...though sometimes one may not have that right of refusal. And, once more, tmf1977, you have been fortunate. I submit you are an exception.

There are actually many people who work in support that I know who have worked for firms 5-20 years with little complaint. As my experience is an exception to you, your experience is definitely an exception in my concern.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Certainly. But if one has responsibilities and cannot move on one holds on to the job.

Never suggested that one should just get up and leave with no job lined up. Can easily be done in applying to jobs and putting feelers out there while working; I have done that in the past when I hit a dead end. I also have a son, a home, and two dogs to take care of. Please do not preach to me about responsibilities.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: You don't know with whom she worked. Working "with" attorneys is different than working "for."

No offense, but neither do you. I have had my fair share of dimwits in other offices yell and pull rank on me despite not working directly for them, or reporting to them.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Whatever you say, but I don't think so. I've either seen or heard about attorneys hassling other paralegals in my offices. One attorney threw his phone at his paralegal-office manager when he could not get the phone to work. I was on on-air radio. The partner I worked for would mock my speaking voice. I have related similar experiences elsewhere on these fora.

I had some finance guy come behind me one night while I was alone working O/T on a contract and squeezed my ass saying how "white baby got back" when I worked for a record company that recently went kaput. If that's not considered abusive, I don't know what is.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: None taken. Never said I did, tmf1977. You are the one who expressed with assurance the people with whom she has worked.

Betty B stated she worked in Title Industry for 15 years. You and I both know that at one point during those 15 years, this poster had to interface with some attorneys and law offices. Next...

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Much different when one reports directly to these people and they are the ones who sign their paychecks. Surely you can understand the difference, tmf1977.

No really? I said this and I would say it again: if your job sucks, time to start moving on. I have done it in the past and I know many others who have also. If something is that horrible, get out of there.

On another note, people need to have a nest egg saved for emergency funds just in case. I went through my nest egg while I was unemployed as well as my pay-out, but at least I didn't have to break any IRAs or 401K funds.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: @tmf1977:

Clearly you are one who must have the last word. Go ahead. I stand by my remarks.

Likewise DLP, likewise.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: It is abusive. But it did not happen in law. Law is under discussion here.

How convenient. Point is there is abuse in every field. However you make it out that abuse and toxic enviornments are exclusive in the legal field. No one ever said all attorneys are saints. But in one breath you stated you were abused by attorneys, and then you state that you dealt with abusive personalities while you were in radio. One manager has a JD while the other one has an FCC license. No difference between the two abusive managers in my book.

I've said this before and I will say it again, don't use this board to go back at anyone who disagrees with you, or has an alternative experience than you do. You're more than entitled to express your opinion, but there is no excuse to make these forums toxic when you disagree with someone.

Wow. Someone in Bulgaria is giving advice on paralegal training courses and the legal market in the United States.

I'm glad I got out of this industry. I still check back on these boards every so often and it reinforces my decision. Did any of you ever realize you're working too hard for the amount of money you're making? It doesn't make sense to work like that when in reality you're most likely in a dead-end job anyway. If I am going to work that hard it's going to be to get me to the next level and to higher pay and status. I don't associate with paralegals much anymore. I think a lot of you just enjoy the abuse, then complain about it. Last time I checked you could still walk out the door if you're not happy. This is a free country, you are free to choose your own misery or happiness.

You're right, Marissa. But I think people end up there because they wanted to or just because that's where they landed. I doubt many do it for the abuse so they vent about it.

I certainly don't think anyone becomes a paralegal because they like the idea of being abused lol! But sadly it does happen and it isn't right. I understand people have children to feed, mortgages to pay, etc. and often end up in situations like this where they feel trapped. But the truth, despite what DLP and others might say, is that paralegal skills ARE valuable and transferable if marketed correctly. Suggestions that come to mind are insurance companies, title companies and banks. Also executive assistant positions. There are options out there and as the economy improves it will be easier to transition out of working for a law firm should an individual desire to. The tricky question is always 'Why do you want to leave law?' as for some strange reason employers think it pays so well and is such a great field. I have been asked this question. I think that's the hardest part- conveying to that potential employer why you are choosing to exit the field in a way that they can easily understand. Part of my answer was that I had found the field to not have as many opportunities for advancement as I had hoped, that I was looking for something that would challenge me to grow and achieve more, to take on more responsibility. Using that language is what got me hired at the job I have now, at an accounting firm. The work environment there is far from perfect, the hours and pay are not perfect... but I feel that ultimately I am respected for the work that I do, something I could not say when I worked in law.

Another great job:

Small Tampa law firm seeking document manager. Specifically, seeking a bright, recent college graduate with little or no experience.

Job duties include:
Management of 100% of document discovery, organization, and management
Manage experts -- get reports, coordinate documents back and forth, etc.
Manage trial preparation, important documents, trial exhibits, trial electronic presentations, witness coordination, etc
Manage other discovery like interrogatories
___________

Sounds like part of a paralegal job to me - with very low pay.
How can anyone do this document manager job with little or no experience.

MarissaH8637 in Clinton Township, Michigan said: I certainly don't think anyone becomes a paralegal because they like the idea of being abused lol! But sadly it does happen and it isn't right. I understand people have children to feed, mortgages to pay, etc. and often end up in situations like this where they feel trapped. But the truth, despite what DLP and others might say, is that paralegal skills ARE valuable and transferable if marketed correctly. Suggestions that come to mind are insurance companies, title companies and banks. Also executive assistant positions. There are options out there and as the economy improves it will be easier to transition out of working for a law firm should an individual desire to. The tricky question is always 'Why do you want to leave law?' as for some strange reason employers think it pays so well and is such a great field. I have been asked this question. I think that's the hardest part- conveying to that potential employer why you are choosing to exit the field in a way that they can easily understand. Part of my answer was that I had found the field to not have as many opportunities for advancement as I had hoped, that I was looking for something that would challenge me to grow and achieve more, to take on more responsibility. Using that language is what got me hired at the job I have now, at an accounting firm. The work environment there is far from perfect, the hours and pay are not perfect... but I feel that ultimately I am respected for the work that I do, something I could not say when I worked in law.

I'm glad you posted this, Marissa, because it is important for paralegals who are in difficult work situations to know that they do have other options, including looking for better employment situations outside of the paralegal field, if need be. Certainly, no paralegal should stay long-term in a toxic work environment, it's just not worth it.

MarissaH8637 in Clinton Township, Michigan said: But the truth, despite what DLP and others might say, is that paralegal skills ARE valuable and transferable if marketed correctly. Suggestions that come to mind are insurance companies, title companies and banks.

When you consider that most people can't afford insurance, have no prospect of buying a home and don't have extra money to put in banks, those are probably the worse industries to peg your "transferable" paralegal skills in. Contrary to the notion that the the economy is improving, things are actually getting worse and people continue to lose jobs.

Paralegal skills have no value to any employer since paralegals are not allowed to make legal decisions or render legal advice. With all the lawyers out of work, comapanies can hire lawyers on the basis of a dime a dozen.

I think it's tough to transition from paralegal to another field. I've been trying the insurance company avenue, with no luck so far.

Oh, and also just wanted to say that the legal field is only sexy to those who have never worked in the legal field. It is decidedly unsexy.

I am certainly not saying it is easy. Nor am I saying that the economy is getting better. I am just trying to throw out some basic suggestions to show that there ARE other options out there than just law. Insurance and title are just two examples. It really depends on your area of the country too. If I was not working in accounting now, quite frankly, I would be working in sales. Another avenue to check out is management. These professions are all ones that a trained and experienced paralegal should have no problems at least getting interviews for. I'm not saying it's easy, I'm just trying to keep people positive. Law is a very negative field, it can lead to negative thinking. I know it did for me and now that I've snapped out of it my life is better. Not perfect, but a definite improvement.

Paralegal student in Knoxville, Tennessee said: I only received one response to this, so I am posting again in hope of more feedback:

I would greatly appreciate as much thoughtful feedback as I can get on this. I am in my late 40s and making a career change.

I excel at obtaining info (whether it be in person, by Internet or by other research), writing and interviewing people; vocational aptitude and interest tests consistently pointed me to the paralegal field. I do find law interesting and I am detail oriented.

I am now in my second semester of a paralegal program and I have had serious concerns about my future in the field. I have had to drop classes two semesters in a row because 12 hours of paralegal classes proved much harder than it was carrying 18 hours in my major when I was in college decades ago. (I work part-time at a dead-end job, but at least it's decent pay.) I generally score 90 or above in paralegal classes.

Still, the law books seem to remain foreign to me, learning proper citation makes me feel as though I have dyslexia (I don't) and I'm told I read too much into case scenarios. I have never been able to raise my typing speed to more than nearly 40 wpm, despite decades of typing. I fear I lack aptitude and interest.

I asked my school's adviser for guidance, and she said paralegals need to be neat, organized, detail oriented and able to meet deadlines. Out of those, I am definitely not neat, and while I can be organized, I'm not sure I'm organized in a way lawyers could find it organized.

I am worried that my return to school will do little to dig me out the career hole I feel I have been in, and I'm not a young person.

Thoughts?

I would give yourself a break. You will not truly learn all there really is to know until you start working in a law office. What you are learning in school is the basics. Once you really start applying your education to actual work, it will become way less foreign. Believe it or not, paralegals usually know and learn more in college about the law than lawyers do coming out of law school. I have been told this many times over.

Dawn

I have been working as a paralegal for over 16 years. I was laid off about 4 years ago and started my own paralegal business working for attorneys all over the US from my home office. If you have the experience in house, go for it. The pay is way better. One thing that always drove me nuts was underpayment and an attorney expecting you to be an attorney and provide them work like an attorney for 1/8th of the pay they would pay an associate. But...I still love paralegal work so I found a way around not having to deal with any attorney I don't want to, and I control my pay. Good luck all.

Dawn M. Draper
The Virtual Paralegal