Cost of Paralegal Programs in N. California

I'm researching paralegal programs in sf bay area. ANYONE ELSE HAVE INFO?

These are the programs I have found thus far:

CSU EAST BAY (HAYWARD)for $6000 but does not have financial aid, and I was told its program is more theoritical and not as advanced. Schedule is not as condusive for the working adult. (Year program assuming you have a BA or AA and do not need to take additional courses.)

JOHN F. KENNEDY has a program in Pleasant HIll for $13,000, is ABA approved, and according to one person I spoke to is more respected by attorneys, more practical, as well as more organized. Also it is closer to my residence and has a schedule that is more respectful to the working adult.(Year program assuming you have a BA or AA and do not need to take additional courses.)

DE ANZA COLLEGE in San Jose has a program for about $13 a unit (about $600-700) but according to those I spoke with, woefully inadequate in both practical and theoritical criteria...(this is just what I've heard, mostly from competing schools).(Year program assuming you have a BA or AA and do not need to take additional courses.)

HEALD's program is $26,000. Is not ABA approved (2009), requires more classes because it does not have a certification but a degree program (AA and BA degrees do not necessarily minimize the number of courses.) 18plus months

The San Francisco State University College of Extended Learning has a highly respected ABA approved Paralegal Certificate Program. It meets in downtown SF just steps above the Powell Street BART Station. It costs approx $6000.00. If offers daytime and nightime classe so the schedule is very good for working adults. The program consists of thirty units of instruction.

The City College of SF has a Paralegal Program. It is very low cost but not ABA approved and to my understanding not well respected.

Taurus in California said: The San Francisco State University College of Extended Learning has a highly respected ABA approved Paralegal Certificate Program....It costs approx $6000.00.

That price is extremely reasonable. Fifteen years ago I paid $7.5K to attend a free-standing paralegal school for my ABA paralegal certificate.

A good thing to do is to do some checking on its graduates. Don't pay any attention to the school's placement rate malarkey. Find out on your own which firms employ its graduates and how many of them are employed. If you find that major firms employ that school's graduates and firms in general employ them, you'd be wise to consider that school for your training.

Very helpful!!!

Very helpful

Sure. Thanx for stopping by!

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: That price is extremely reasonable. Fifteen years ago I paid $7.5K to attend a free-standing paralegal school for my ABA paralegal certificate.

A good thing to do is to do some checking on its graduates. Don't pay any attention to the school's placement rate malarkey. Find out on your own which firms employ its graduates and how many of them are employed. If you find that major firms employ that school's graduates and firms in general employ them, you'd be wise to consider that school for your training.

Could you recommend any online paralegal schools? I already have a bachelors degree, and wanted to get certified as a paralegal. How is the job market in Denver for paralegals? Thanks

Kate: I had already had 20 years experience as a legal assistant when I got my paralegal degree. I had worked as a full fledged paralegal for six years. I was just finishing my Bachelor's Degree. I did the paralegal program in three terms, at the cheapest cost.

Right now I am unemployed. Yeah for the unemployed. We keep the rest of the American population feeling good about their crappy jobs!!!!

Before you spend more money on education, get a job as a legal secretary, get a feel for the environment. You might not like it.

I'm not going to say anything negative or attorney bashing (after all I do have sex with one, and even got a ream of paper out of him last night, which he took from the office as he was leaving). Too many people come on here (those who are employed) and say we are attorney bashing or are negative. Don't believe what you read that paralegal is an in-demand field and you will make tons of money.

cont

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But you already have a Bachelor's Degree. Think analytical.
What is your age? (sound under 30)
What do you want from a job?
Do you want to work in a polished office and wear nice clothes?
Do you want to leave everyday at 5:00?
Do you have or are you intending to have kids in the near future?
Do you work well under stress, deadlines?
Can you handle being yelled at, insulted, belittled?
Do you have a good memory (where you can remember five things being yelled at you while you are walking down a hallway)?
Can you handle gossip, contributing to it - or being the brunt of it?
Can you handle stress without falling apart or crying?
Can you handle being fired?

Kate in Louisiana:

I cannot recommend any fully online paralegal schools, primarily because I feel that traditional classroom schools provide the best learning experience. IMO you will learn more, better and faster if you submit to the discipline that classroom training provides.

I've followed Denver paralegal hiring for fifteen years. This market has always been tight. Too many entry paralegals and too many excellent, experienced and well qualified paralegals vying for too few jobs. The recession has exacerbated the already-tight paralegal job market.

As far as attorney bashing goes, unlike Mary I'm not under any constraints. Just realize that attorneys are among the most difficult bosses walking the earth.

My experience is some attorneys are okay, but they are rare. A significant number of attoreys are intense, abrupt, anal, very rude and ungrateful. Those individuals will think nothing of imposing on your free time but will snarl at you if you beg for a few nanoseconds of their time. Attorneys are articulate but lack two words in their immense lexicons: "thank" and "you."

In short, one needs Kevlar skin, titanium nerves and an iron constitution to work for attorneys and in law. Think carefully if you want to endure this kind of environment before going forward.

Oh, heeel, I was going on one session (with Tom) and I said, "Attorneys are asssshooles." He said what? I repeated it. The look on his face. I started laughing.

john in Concord, California said: I'm researching paralegal programs in sf bay area. ANYONE ELSE HAVE INFO?...

I have info-snippets cut and pasted from other posts on this forum: "Don't do it. It can be rewarding and working with clients most of the time is great, however, you will never, never get the appreciation you deserve from the majority of the lawyers you work with. They have too many problems with lack of ethics, laziness, arrogance, egotism, lack of caring for their clients, abuse problems, greed, et cetera. I spent 35 years in the legal field and am still doing some part-time work now that I'm retired, and when I look back on it I should have become a physical therapist. The pay is horrible with plaintiff attorneys. The stress is horrendous, and the office politics can be brutal. If you do everything your attorney bosses tell you to do without question, you can be in danger of losing your license but the jerk keeps on going. It will always be your fault when something goes wrong. I'm sorry I ever wasted my life trying to be David up against Goliath. I had to leave three law firms because of their lack of ethic."

Overwhelmed in Hudson, FL:
"I must add my two cents. Do NOT do it!! I spent two years of my life in school and actually did get my AS in Paralegal Studies and was employed for about one year as a paralegal. I quit and am now preparing myself to invest one more year in an LPN program.
The stress of the legal field was overwhelming and unsettling. The stories of attorneys throwing chairs at their paralegals and tyrannical behavior was not a secret once I entered the field. If I had known about it prior, I may not have completed my paralegal education.
Working as a paralegal is FULL of stress, deadlines, "post-it" notes, and serious disillusionment. I was completely disappointed with the legal field and am very excited (and nervous) to be starting on a new path in nursing in just one week! "

Happy RN in Alhambra:
RUN LIKE HELL AWAY FROM THE PARALEGAL PROFESSION. YOU ARE TREATED LIKE DIRT BY LAWYERS AND YOU WILL NEVER GET $50,000.00. IF YOU START GETTING OLDER AND LOSE YOUR LOOKS, BYE, BYE

Vinitas in Los Angeles:
So true, so true the work is overburdensome. I worked as a paralegal, before the phrase paralegal was invented, for over 30 years. This is not a job for the faint of heart or anyone a little bit on the lazy. Be prepared to miss dinner. I have left the office only to learn I forgot something and then got sandbagged and had to work until after midnight. This left me enough time to get home, showered, and about 6 hours of sleep (I stopped long enough to get something to eat). You will miss your children's events because the client can only come in at that time, etc., etc., etc. Plus you get blamed for all of the attorney's mistakes…

Pinkfusion in Irvine:
I appreciate all that have shared their experiences. My sister was warning me (she works at a university) that many of the students that completed the paralegal studies program were VERY unhappy when they began working as paralegals. At first I dismissed her. Now I believe it.

Fired in Minnesota:
Yes, H.R. in big law firms are snakes. They only listen to the attorney. An attorney can be known to be impossible to please, or a rotten dictator, and you are expected to perform miracles. They will never say the attorney is wrong. They are too chicken. I was let go after 28 years...I don't think I've comprehended it yet....after six months. It makes me crazy if I start thinking about what they did to me, and I believe they believe they did the right thing. I wish it would happen to their mother or sister. You have no one to protect you as a floater in a large firm. It's like land mines all over the place, and your own ego hangs in the balance. It pays well unfortunately. I am so glad I am out

KMM in Wilmington, DE:
I was a Paralegal for 10 years. At the end, I hated it all- because of the stress, which was destroying my life, and the attornyes who eventually did destroy my life.
Shelf life of para is about 10 years.
I FELT EXACTLY, EXACTLY, EXACTLY AS YOU HAVE WRITTEN.
I lived the tortured stressfull days..when I just didn't know how much more I could take.
I eventually went down in flames in 2006, a toiled thankless life that ended very badly.

Emily in Denver:
I just came across this board while searching for employment - I've been a legal secretary/legal admin asst for over 25 years … I have been chewed up, spit out and stomped upon so much, I can’t describe.

I have been in therapy all of this time, convinced that they were right, I was a stupid bimbo, and they were in good heartedness 'trying to keep me off the streets.' Damn if you do and damn if you don’t. Some (women and that glass ceiling) claw their way to the top, not caring who they step on. More common among litigators, but no area is immune. Bankruptcy is depressing, litigation makes me hostile, family law is heartwrenching, malpractice is job security, but I feel like a calf being lead to slaughter (again). Most currently I worked for a woman firm. They gave me more breaks than they needed to, and their generosity was beyond compare, with regular salary increases and great perks. Commands had been humanly impossible, but, hey, that's our job, to make the attorney look good, and they were grateful. Suggestions may not be welcome, and some considered downright insubordination, but due to downsizing (and age?) I'm in a quandry.

Legal Secretary from the UK:
Thank goodness someone else out there feels the same way I do!!!! I'm 34, from the UK, and have been a legal sec for 12 years. I've just been made redundant and feel i've been set free from prison! In other industries being a sec/PA means you can use iniative and take on further responsibility, however, in a law firm they do not trust you to make your own decisions and we're constantly dictated to by arrogant, public school boys/girls! I'm also about to embark on getting myself into debt to study full time and eventually have a fulfilling career :) I only wish I'd done this years ago and maybe like you I wouldn't be in debt for the rest of my life! Money isn't everything and unfortunately it took me a long time to realise that. The good pay is a trap and I know so many legal secretaries who want to change their careers but can't because they need the income from their job.

San Francisco Legal Secretary with 27 years' experience:
If it's not screaming like lunatics, it's whining like a bunch of spoiled brats. The not knowing what you're doing is what gets me. As I've said before, it's part of the reason so many people are electing to handle their problems in pro per. The courts themselves have self-help clinics.
At that last place, one of the young'uns screamed at a client because a document came in late. Mind you, these were the final judgment papers - not anything time-sensitive and pertinent to the case. The client told the managing partner off. I've been in a couple of other places where the clients went off on the attorneys for similar reasons. Problem is, by the time they have your money, you just have to wait for them to finish blundering their way through your case.
I've learned enough about the law that I am confident (and competent) in representing myself. The last person I'd want speaking for me is some nincompoop who lacks self control.

Ok. You guys get the picture. I overkilled it as usual.

Why don't you ask people who have been (or were) in the industry and ask them about it? I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that they would discourage it.

I'm a former legal secretary, returned to school full time to finish my BA, and I graduate in Dec. I depleted my entire life savings, accrued massive debt, and haven't contributed anything to retirement in 2 years. I'm 42. I was willing to give up everyting to get out of this awful industry.

For many paralegals, they end up in a relationship with their attorney that is very similar to a battered woman syndrome. So, look up the definition and pattern of this and you will see what being a paralegal is like.

You will have the same stages: The tension-building phase, followed by the explosion, followed by a honeymoon phase. Over and over and over.

Attorneys are socialized in their education and training to be the aggressor, the manipulator, always trying to control the situation. Really, this should all be targeted to opposing counsel, for those of us in litigation, but they are equal opportunity aggressors and will treat their own staff like they are on the other side of a case.

And since the battered woman syndrome is a type of post-traumatic stress disorder, you will also come away from your emotionally abusive paralegal job(s) with some lingering issues related to it.

It's best to avoid the experience altogether.

Paralegal in Dallas, Texas said: For many paralegals, they end up in a relationship with their attorney that is very similar to a battered woman syndrome. So, look up the definition and pattern of this and you will see what being a paralegal is like...Attorneys are socialized in their education and training to be the aggressor, the manipulator, always trying to control the situation. Really, this should all be targeted to opposing counsel, for those of us in litigation, but they are equal opportunity aggressors and will treat their own staff like they are on the other side of a case.

And since the battered woman syndrome is a type of post-traumatic stress disorder, you will also come away from your emotionally abusive paralegal job(s) with some lingering issues related to it.
It's best to avoid the experience altogether.

I love this point of view. I never thought about putting it that way. It's funny because I'd always thought of it sort of like a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. As the woman, you have to stand up for yourself right away because even a nice guy will try to make you a doormat if you allow it. Once you allow youself to become a doormat, it's hard to change the situation so that you can get out from under his feet. I always thought it was like that with attys but worse. For example, attys are notorious for giving projects at the last minute and have no regard for the fact that you are off in a half hour. Or they keep handing you stuff to do that needs to be done "right away," and it's 2pm and you haven't gone to lunch yet. Stay late or skip lunch once, and they expect it every day. That's why from the beginning, I'll say something, ie., "If you have something, give it to me now because I leave in __ minutes" or "Is now a good time for me to leave for lunch?" And these issues are nothing compared to what I really had to deal with.

Paralegal in Dallas, Texas said: For many paralegals, they end up in a relationship with their attorney that is very similar to a battered woman syndrome. So, look up the definition and pattern of this and you will see what being a paralegal is like.

You will have the same stages: The tension-building phase, followed by the explosion, followed by a honeymoon phase. Over and over and over.

Attorneys are socialized in their education and training to be the aggressor, the manipulator, always trying to control the situation. Really, this should all be targeted to opposing counsel, for those of us in litigation, but they are equal opportunity aggressors and will treat their own staff like they are on the other side of a case.

And since the battered woman syndrome is a type of post-traumatic stress disorder, you will also come away from your emotionally abusive paralegal job(s) with some lingering issues related to it.

It's best to avoid the experience altogether.

Regarding your comment about post-traumatic stress: I swear, actually had that for about 9 months after I got out of the industry. I moved to my hometown to go back to school full time in order to change careers. I came back to a smaller area where the pace of life is much slower; yet I was exhausted and burnt out. I didn't think I had it in me to work any more and wanted to retire. I was 39 and, as a legal secretary, you can't really amass enough to retire at any age, let alone at 39. I couldn't imagine ever being happy again at any job regardless of what it was, and that was scary. I was angry, hateful, and resentful.

It has now been 3 years and 2 months. I am happy and excited about the opportunities that lie ahead. I keep trying to prepare myself for the fact that it's going to be hard, not only because of my age (now 42) but - helloww - the ECONOMY!!

From my experience, support staff and even first year attorneys simply can't stand up for themselves and live to keep their jobs.

In fact, we are hiring right now and all candidates who are found to be the type who refuse to take crap from attorneys are eliminated. They look for submissive unencumbered people who will do what they are told without any comment. One of our attorneys specifically asked for a legal assistant who is quiet, low key and introverted and who, "won't talk to anyone else."

On a side note, do you know there are law firms out there who do not allow any non-work conversation at all among their staff? You can't ask, "How was your weekend?" to the lady in the cube next to you or you will be written up. This further speaks to the battered woman syndrome happening in law firms between attorneys and support staff.

Paralegal in Dallas, Texas said: Attorneys are socialized in their education and training to be the aggressor, the manipulator, always trying to control the situation. Really, this should all be targeted to opposing counsel, for those of us in litigation, but they are equal opportunity aggressors and will treat their own staff like they are on the other side of a case.....

I agree with this analysis. Litigators operate in a contentious environment. They are always in a dispute, with OC, an adjuster, or whoever. So many of these individuals also direct their aggression at those people who are on their side and support them - their legal assistants. They just cannot turn it off. I've written my story many times about the partner who threw his phone at his paralegal-office manager. Among other experiences, I've written my story about the partner for whom I toiled who repeatedly mocked how I speak and how he ripped me a new one in front of my peer.

Paralegal in Dallas, Texas said: And since the battered woman syndrome is a type of post-traumatic stress disorder, you will also come away from your emotionally abusive paralegal job(s) with some lingering issues related to it.

Don't think "battered woman syndrome" in law offices is confined strictly to women. I am male. I've been away for a while now. I am not ashamed to say I have some lingering issues related to my last job, accompanied by lingering resentment about how I was treated. I no longer put up with such crap, from anyone.

I agree that it's best to avoid law altogether

Paralegal in Dallas, Texas said: From my experience, support staff and even first year attorneys simply can't stand up for themselves and live to keep their jobs.

In fact, we are hiring right now and all candidates who are found to be the type who refuse to take crap from attorneys are eliminated. They look for submissive unencumbered people who will do what they are told without any comment. One of our attorneys specifically asked for a legal assistant who is quiet, low key and introverted and who, "won't talk to anyone else."

On a side note, do you know there are law firms out there who do not allow any non-work conversation at all among their staff? You can't ask, "How was your weekend?" to the lady in the cube next to you or you will be written up. This further speaks to the battered woman syndrome happening in law firms between attorneys and support staff.

Wow. I've NEVER heard of someone not being allowed to talk about nonlegal stuff at work. I worked at a firm where, I was told, that it was discouraged for employees to get together, hang out, and socialize after work or on weekends. I did it; no one ever said anything.

DLP - regarding your comment "Don't think "battered woman syndrome" in law offices is confined strictly to women... " I often forget and refer to paralegals as "she." Sorry about that. I know that these bad workplace experiences affect all of us adversely regardless of our gender.

dh in Northern CA, California said: I often forget and refer to paralegals as "she." Sorry about that. I know that these bad workplace experiences affect all of us adversely regardless of our gender.

No worries. I realize male paralegals are about as rare as hen's teeth.

I also know that many attorneys of either sex have difficulty relating to male legal assistants. Based on my experiences, I am sure that difficulty contributes to the tension and stress.

For a couple of bully attorneys I know, the firm intentionally sought out a male paralegal for them thinking he would not be as targeted for abuse as a female. Five or six male candidates were interviewed, but none were very impressive or were too expensive (since males get paid more than females in the legal field). They hired a female who quickly caved. Not sure what they did after that.

It would have been interesting to see if their theory of having a male would have panned out as predicted. My guess is it would not have made any difference. I have seen a couple of male paralegals treated just as bad - if not worse - than female paralegals.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: No worries. I realize male paralegals are about as rare as hen's teeth...

Yep, and I believe that's why there has never been a "go postal" shooting in a law firm. I was curious once and did some research. I found a site that listed every workplace shooting since 1980-something. Every incident was committed by a male (there were two incidents that didn't have enough info to tell the gender of the shooter, i.e., it didn't provide a name or make reference to a "he" or "she.") and none of them happened in law firms.

There's no doubt in my mind that these shootings would happen in law firms occasionally if the ratio of men to women legal secs and paralegals were reversed. I did meet a couple male paralegals but only one male legal secretary.

Not bashing men, of course, but men and women handle stress and anger differently. I think it's only a matter of time before someone loses it in a law firm and sprays it with bullets.

While I was living in LA, I saw on the local news where a man was angry at the atty who handled his case and open fired on him in front of the LA courthouse. The atty was trying to hide behind a tree whose trunk was narrower than his body. An off-duty cop tackled the gunman. Someone else got it on video. The atty got shot but walked away from the incident.

dh in Northern CA, California said: Regarding your comment about post-traumatic stress: I swear, actually had that for about 9 months after I got out of the industry. I moved to my hometown to go back to school full time in order to change careers. I came back to a smaller area where the pace of life is much slower; yet I was exhausted and burnt out. I didn't think I had it in me to work any more and wanted to retire. I was 39 and, as a legal secretary, you can't really amass enough to retire at any age, let alone at 39. I couldn't imagine ever being happy again at any job regardless of what it was, and that was scary. I was angry, hateful, and resentful.

It has now been 3 years and 2 months. I am happy and excited about the opportunities that lie ahead. I keep trying to prepare myself for the fact that it's going to be hard, not only because of my age (now 42) but - helloww - the ECONOMY!!

DH, I am also in Northern CA and near your age. I do have a Bachelor's Degree and an ABA Paralegal Certificate.However I am not sure I want to actually work as a Paralegal, especially considering my age and the fact that I am male. I have no experience working as a Paralegal. I am also NOT the type who is willing to be abused by co-workers or supervisors. I am also intending to return to school. I am seriously considering nursing. I am curious as to what field you are trying to enter with your new degree?

Taurus in California said: I do have a Bachelor's Degree and an ABA Paralegal Certificate.However I am not sure I want to actually work as a Paralegal, especially considering my age and the fact that I am male. I have no experience working as a Paralegal. I am also NOT the type who is willing to be abused by co-workers or supervisors....

I am sure I suffered from perception problems. So many people think male paralegals eventually want to be lawyers. They don't understand that paralegal is its own career goal. Or, depending on an office's dress code, male paralegals are confused with male attorneys. Males were required to wear suits in my first office. A temp legal secretary had been respectful to me, but her attitude did an immediate 180 when she learned I was but a paralegal.

As I wrote, above and previously, some old-school attorneys of either sex cannot relate to male legal assistants. It's probably because females seem less threatening to their authority than males. The partner in my second firm always had female legal assistants. That individual would talk about a female legal assistant he had who had a "bubbly" personality. Blecch! That individual would complain that our relationship was stiff and formal. Sorry, but I don't do bubbly - and he was one to talk about being stiff. On the other hand, the female shareholder in my first firm and I got along well, though she drove me nuts. She was sorry to see me leave. FWIW I was older than both individuals by a couple of years.

Male or female, no subordinate should have to suffer abuse from any supervisor of either sex.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I am sure I suffered from perception problems. So many people think male paralegals eventually want to be lawyers. They don't understand that paralegal is its own career goal. Or, depending on an office's dress code, male paralegals are confused with male attorneys. Males were required to wear suits in my first office. A temp legal secretary had been respectful to me, but her attitude did an immediate 180 when she learned I was but a paralegal.

As I wrote, above and previously, some old-school attorneys of either sex cannot relate to male legal assistants. It's probably because females seem less threatening to their authority than males. The partner in my second firm always had female legal assistants. That individual would talk about a female legal assistant he had who had a "bubbly" personality. Blecch! That individual would complain that our relationship was stiff and formal. Sorry, but I don't do bubbly - and he was one to talk about being stiff. On the other hand, the female shareholder in my first firm and I got along well, though she drove me nuts. She was sorry to see me leave. FWIW I was older than both individuals by a couple of years.

Male or female, no subordinate should have to suffer abuse from any supervisor of either sex.

I don't do bubbly either. In addition, to be perfectly honest I did not go to Paralegal school because I have a burning desire to be a Paralegal. I thought of it as a way to explore the possibility of going to law school, to see if I liked the legal field, get my foot into the door, etc. I actually started school in 2003. In 2005, after years of taking one class a semester and taking time off, I finally forced myself to make a decision about continuing. I decided that I had invested too much time and money to quit, therefore I might as well finish the certificate program. I figured that it would look good on my resume and help me get into law school.