Direction?

Hello to everyone:

Right now I am being offered an unprecedented opportunity to get my certification in Paralegal Studies. (It's in the form of a grant sponsored by my State ((RI)) as part of the buyout of the company I worked for) and I'm looking for any information about who to get information from regarding things like starting salary, what they look for in a paralegal, and questions like that.

Where would I find such information? Thanks in advance :)

Thank you so much, Displaced....I was worried that after all the commentary regarding entering the legal field I would've been met with the "Run, Forest! RRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUN!" (to be kind) but I'm glad for any information I can get :)

Thanks again, and I will continue to research :)

Mets

Yeah, you're right, I didn't ask; I had read most of the answers here, and figured out what to expect....

I've worked as a temp for a few agencies over the years, and I've dealt with the best of the best at what they do, as well as the worst, but, having said that, if I know what to expect, it doesn't seem so bad. You've never had *any* good experiences with the Law in general?

That's true, but since the only alternative for me is not working permanently, getting training seems the way to go (and they can't take the knowledge away from you). I've been working in the Data Entry field for so long I've forgotten what it's like to do anything else, and I have the carpal tunnel to prove it.

That's not to say in a few years, when I've been doing it long enough, that I won't want to do something else. Right now I'm looking for the short term fix (say, a window of five years) so that I can pay off my long overdue student loans, and see what happens.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I wouldn't say I haven't had *any* good experiences - it's just the the negatives of working in a law firm can really grind you over time...and I really think difficult, demanding, inconsiderate Type A personalities are the primary cause. More money is not enough to cool burnout. Respectful treatment and more frequent thank-yous are better.

You described the Type-A pesonality throughly in a comment to me. ALL true. It was the Lawyer that destroyed my life and job. I liked my work. ANd the great thng was that I had my own office and I "was" to run my own shop. I live that - did that set-up on first Paralegal job- especially because it was work I took a liking to. In the end - the job that CREAMED me forever - it was the nightmare boss ( mentioned before, worked for 2 Partners -1 fine, the other the nightmare) I remember saying, while I was there, I came in here happy and positive and and you turned that person into an unhappy nervous wreck - because of the Nightmare lawyer. In the end- this type of situation- ruins your entire life - and worse your money situation and for me my health.- I have worked for decent attorneys when I was legal temping in between jobs - had cream puff jobs temp assignments working for attorneys that did not stress me to death. - Hoped I would eventually land a permanent job on my own with that type of boss - but I did not - one nightmare situation after another. Oh, yes, some temp assignments were 2 - 3 months. and no problems. SO- it can be just a crap shoot- I had mapped out my plan - had I landed with a decent boss and benefits- my life would be very different. Very sad I must say. ANd annot say much of your SOB boss, DLP either. Lasted 7 years- but it seems he made your life very misereable - till enough is enough- BUt again - I did not know , until I was actully a working Paralegal, how it truly can be, when you get the ba situation. {continued]

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: Continued - the Type-A pesonality.{continued]

Type-A personalty - ie Lawyers - spill that crap into your life - meaning whatever the freak is wrong with their heads - in the way they treat you and react - mental cases -

The lawyer that CREAMED my career and life - gave me Anxiety on the job, by the way he acted and reacted.

Shoot - I remember I was at the door of his office (next to mine, giving hime easy access to me) and asked a necssary question or gave him an update - He jumped out of his chair and started screaming like the mental case he was "get out of my office, get out of my office" - I went back to my office, half laughing to myself and saying "What a head case" talk about the "Cuckoo's Nest" - he did this type of crap more than once- and because it was totally on him - I was not too bothered in terms of my job - because he made such a fool of himself - and let loose his head problems.

Then of course there were the serious problems - causing happy to very unhappy.

Do you know of anyone who was a Paralegal and transferred the skills into another job - successfully, geting at lease equivilent pay?
(sloppy speller and typer theses days)

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I always thought real property was interesting. ..title companies like paralegals primarily for their research skills. I have tried them and no luck.I also tried banking. No luck. I sense that non-law firm venues may be more sane than law firms. I should think in Delaware one would have many corporate paralegal opportunities.

I worked for In-house counsel for 2 corporations. Yes, the environment was most defnitely more sane. As for Delaware corporate paralegals - we are a small legal communty, everybody knows everybody, eventually. There is one big corporate law firm in DE, high stress, and when I was working for one of the companies (referenced above), the company was incorporated in DE, and I called the DE firm for documents. A lot of companies Incorporate in DE (because we have lots of law on the books) - as for corporate law jobs, not as plentiful as one might think - I have interviewed at Title co- the job consisted of work for H.S. diploma people. The workers were not the brightest crew. Interviewed at banks, strange people. Banks do have trust departments, interviewed, no offer. Several bank interviews, no offer. Interviewed for Bank commercial loan position - had the skills and background for it. No offer.

That is the reason why, when in-between jobs, may have to take first offer, or could be hanging out for a long, long time. It is true, the longer you are out, the less desireable you become. Some people land easily - many jobs I did not want. And boy, have I had some of the Bizaarest Interviews while looking.

How do you get your door into the legal field? I have submitted numerous resemes to law firms in Dallas. I keep getting the response: "I regret to inform you that at the present time we have no positions available that are a match for your background and experience."

I have about a dozen more classes to go, and I will have a Bachelors Degree. A lot of people talk about networking. I don't understand that because I don't know a lot of people in the legal field. I also don't have much hands on experience. I have not had success getting an interview. After 60 resemes, you would think at least one interview would appear.

I do not know what else to do.

Signed,

Feeling Tired

You are right about the perception of the paralegal schools and college paralegal programs. I challenged certain staff who gives career advice at the school I attend because like an idiot, I tried all of the suggestions provided to me.

A lot of my sources are telling me that the economy is somewhat to blame as well. I feel I made a mistake going into the homebuilding industry immediately after high school. The economy was really good in the 1990s, and I managed to keep the same job for over 9.5 years. Back in November 2007, I got laid off from that 9.5 year job. As a result of getting laid off, I have tried forging ahead with getting my foot into the door of the legal field.

I will just keep applying, and flooding the field with my resemes and letters. I'll try to make an attempt to send resemes and cover letters to all attorneys in the State of Texas. There is bound to be someone to respond. The closer it gets to graduation time for that Bachelors Degree, the more it seems to appear that I won't have a job in the legal field, and over $50K in student loan debt on the Bachelors Degree alone. To make humor out of the situation, I do not know what is more difficult: 1 getting your foot into the legal field, or 2 getting a date.

"I consider myself fortunate to have found a job four months after I graduated. I remember people who had graduated six months before I did who still hadn't found jobs at that time."

You hit on an excellent point Displaced. I know several students who are not even finished with school, but landed a job. There are also some students I know that started somehow smack dab after high school. However, they are in school now to get a Bachelors Degree for more money.

I am going to at least finish the Degree because not everyone in my family has degrees. I am one of few with a high school diploma, and one of few that has ever worked in a high rise. I am proud to accomplish certain milestones.

"I would urge you to rethink your commitment to joining the legal field."

I have had mixed feelings about trying anymore. Law School has also crossed my mind, however, I do not know if I want to do that now. The only good out of those sixty resemes so far is that I at least demonstrated an effort of "good faith" by showing the State of Texas, I am trying to look for work. As a result of my efforts, I have received my unemployment payments.

"You can do plenty of other things with your degree besides law."

Looks like I will have to do some soul searching. I have received a job offer today, but it's contingent upon a friend of mine being able to secure more accounts. My friend also has told me, I seem more CEO and COO groomed than Legally Groomed.

As a result of my experiences and if I ever get into a position where I have authority to hire, fire, and lay off, I shall always try to give entry level people a chance to prove themselves. It appears the legal field does not give such opportunities to people to do that.

Displaced, I wish you best of luck on your job search. I plan to keep in touch here so that I can develop more habits I need to succeed legal field or not.

Feeling_Tired

As a former paralegal and wife of an attorney, I could not agree more with Displaced............. the majority of attorneys are overpaid jerks who think that they are better than the staff..... young female attorneys are, in my opinion, the worst of the worst. I also agree with Displaced about going through an ABA approved program should you decide to enter the legal arena. Many of the larger, more prestigous firms only hire graduates of ABA approved schools because of billing purposes. Also many ABA approved programs are available at accredited universities, which give you an opportunity to use your credit hours towards a first or second bachelor's degree.

If I were just entering the legal field now, I'd probably try to get any job at a respectable law firm and go to school part-time. Knowing law firm/court protocol is key to finding a good paralegal job. I graduated with a 4.0 from a respected post-bachelor's ABA approved program at a local university, and, to be honest, I learned very little that I actually used in my role as a paralegal. Later in my career, I worked at a top tier firm hiring other paralegals. Without a doubt, prospective candidates who had some type of law firm experience, be it paralegal, secretarial, administrative, file clerk, etc., were much, much more likely to be called for interviews over those who had no experience.

Good Luck

Dear Former:

It sounds as if you are describing a "good ole boy network" like atmosphere? I also have not had much success with volunteering.

The more Displaced and you talk, the more I believe "Equal Opportunity Employer" is a "theory" rather than a "reality."

"I feel my school generally provided excellent introductory training and I've retained much of it. But, truly, the best training comes OJT."

On The Job Training? Wow! That became "obsolete" in the 1990s. I bet a lawyer would not know what that was.

Perhaps things like this are why people with no legal knowledge, crack jokes about lawyers and talk bad about them? I also now understand why a former Vice President at the company I once worked at called an attorney a "pompous arse."

My school and the professors have are great! By no means can I bad mouth any of them.

I also hear, "it's not what you know, it's who you know."

Age discrimination is all over, right Displaced? We can't get away from it!!

"I mean, isn't that why they exist? To uphold the law?"

Labor Laws serve as pacifiers. It's simply written and people do the least possible to be within compliance of the law. It's my opinion that lawyers are manipulative of the law, and focus on the loop holes like a hunter prepares for his next kill.

"Everyone is new to a job at one time. Everyone has to be shown a few things, in any job. But one still collects the bulk of his/her practical learning, if you will, on the job. In my eleven years in law, very few days went by when I didn't learn something new, or learned or came up with a better way to do something."

Life is all about learning something new everyday. I'm learning about the job market as well as the legal field in more ways than one. It seems like I have received more of my educational experiences from "The School of Hard Knocks."

Just gotta find the weakest link and destroy it from there.

I am glad to be communicating with you all about this. I was starting to feel worthless. I am a positive person all around, however, consistent rejection is something that wears me out faster than anything.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have majored in business. I guess I will look at grad-school in order to pursue an MBA, and have $115K in student loan debt before all of this is over, but land a job quicker in a different field.

I must seek out the "silver lining." I know the silver lining is not a theory.

You're going to laugh, a Professor of mine is making it sound like 1-2-3. He asked me if I have been working with the "Career Placement Adviser" from the school. I wonder how on earth she will help if anything? It angers me that they are making "landing your first job" as "easy."

I am starting to hate the fact that I am becoming infuriated with the BS I am being told. The "Career Placement Advisor" is like a doctor, they don't really know themselves. Hence, the symptom must be treated to end the disease.

"Career placement advisors are similarly useless. They'll listen politely to your situation but never have any useful, real-world advice."

The advice and suggestions I received last time seemed "generic."

"You have to be your own career placement advisor. As long as you have the ball, keep running plays. Run enough of them and, hopefully, you'll hit paydirt - if you aren't forced to punt, that is."

I knew that to a certain degree, and I am not a seasoned job hunter.

Within the Paralegal Club at the school I attend, I announced my skepticism. I even went as far as to challenge the suggestions of the Career Placement Adviser. I am one who is willing to try something once. If it does not work like claimed, I challenge the source. That is probably bad of me to do. However, the comment: "They are so cloistered in their ivory towers that they wouldn't know the real world if it hit them in the face." is so true.

The other thing that sickens me is are books such as the one titled: "How to Land Your First Paralegal Job: An Insider's guide to the fastest growing profession of the new millennium" By: Andrea Wagner. Oh, it's Second Editions by the way. Wait a minute, there's also a Third, Fourth, and Fifth Edition. The Fifth Edition on Amazon.com sells for: $48.00.

Someone ought to write a book about all of the hogwash that is issued on landing a job. The Author would have to be one with a comedy background to make wise cracks like how Bill Maher does with New Rules on his show called "Real Time with: Bill Maher."

Displaced:

If I were to buy such a book, I would have nothing but a "non-performing asset." I am not that naive. I was naive when I followed the advice of the career placement adviser. I got fooled, and as a result the slogan: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" comes to mind. Hence, shame on them for providing me information that does not work. If I were to buy that book: shame on me.

While we are on the topic of what works and does not work, I assume the salary statistics are not accurate as well?

The more stuff I am learning from talking to you and others on this said blog, the more it has crossed my mind to become confrontational and prosecuting.

This is why my intentions are/were: I wanted to work as a Paralegal for a while to pay off some debt, and go to Law School and become an attorney. That was my honest to God intentions. Since law school has crossed my mind, is it easier for law school students to land certain jobs? I am sorry for that stupid question, but my intuition is telling me that it is.

So I got into the certification program, and I'm having fun doing it. I'm discouraged by the fact of the economy (and a myriad of other things) but I'm disheartened by the postings here....am I doomed to work for a schitzo attorney? Doesn't ANYONE have a good thing about the legal profession they can share? I hope I'm not wasting my time by going to school..... :(

Yep, there are good lawyers out there! Don't get discouraged, go ahead and do whatever you want. These postings are more for venting not telling everyone how wonderful life is.

That's true....I've worked for some doozies in my time (and that wasn't even IN the legal arena!)

The truth is better than nothing at all :) (And the school I'm getting my certification from is Boston University.) :)

Mets:

I you want to be "disheartened," try getting rejected 60 plus times without getting a job interview. Better yet, try to do legal volunteer work in hopes of landing that job.

Another thing you must understand, is that some parts of the United States are more open-minded than others. I look at certain jobs, and one of the educational requirements on the job description is as follows: "Must be an ABA approved school." That counts me out because I am not a "traditional student." I am an "online student." The school is "accredited" by the "North Central Association." The NCA also accredited schools such as:

University of Phoenix

Devry University

Although my school is not "ABA Approved," it still is a good school. Other professions such as Business, Law Enforcement, Computer Science, and Education reap results that the legal studies department has had difficulty obtaining.

I TRULY wish you luck on finding a job in the legal field. However, expected the unexpected.

I'm not venting neither, I am trying to learn things. I have learned quite a bit of things such as why it takes so long to get a job interview.

I don't know about any of you, but I DEMAND RESULTS FROM EVERYTHING I DO. Some things I demand results from fast. If I do not obtain certain results, I grow: tired, impatient, angry, and resentful. Hence, it either performs, or I get rid of it.

It is my opinion that the purpose of College, Technical School, or Vocational Training is for one thing: TO IMPROVE FINANCIAL POSITION.

Mets:

I truly hope you will get your "return on investment" and not have what is known as a "non-performing asset."

Displaced:

ABA Approved Program or not, the legal field appears to be difficult to get into. I am starting to believe that I would have better chances trying to find the Holy Grail. I could so kick myself in the tail pipe for listening to the academic professionals in the beginning. I will say though they made it seem as easy as paying $5,000 to go deer hunting on a ranch with an absolute promise of bagging a trophy buck with a nice set of antlers.

Yeah, I've lived with disappointment, Feeling (as I have a husband with a BA in Communications and is working for his mother, of all things) so I've lived with the knowledge that things don't happen the way they should...but it's good to be able to put those thoughts into words and not keep them bottled up....

Who knows? The economy COULD turn around.....

I myself will keep searching even though I'm not out of school quite yet, but I found a temp agency (yeah, I have to go back temping.......whee.)that said she could (possibly) find me something.....

Man Displaced, you a victim of what is known as "underemployment." It seems like a lot of people are a victim of that right now.

Mets,

If companies keep outsourcing stuff, there won't be any jobs left.

Hey Displaced, two years? What about Chipendales? lol....

Displaced, How about teaching? I think you would be good at that and of course writing at associatedcontent.com!!
I spelt Chippendales wrong I think the way spelt it was for the older buff guys

Displaced, You can teach paralegal too. You do not have to be an attorney for that right?

Lecture away!!

Displaced, I found your postings to be of value to both myself and those who read them. If you can lecture, write (associatedcontent.com) do it!! I read your posts and always come away with a suggestion or something I can truly use in my life. Putting all the joking aside, talent like yours (expressing yourself in writing,) is something that should not be wasted.

What side dicussion lol.. isn't that what ladies do best, start out on one topic and next thing you know we are off to another! Read Property Manager postings Displaced, you'll get a kick out of it.

I would greatly appreciate as much thoughtful feedback as I can get on this. I am in my late 40s and making a career change.

I excel at obtaining info (whether it be in person, by Internet or by other research), writing and interviewing people; vocational aptitude and interest tests consistently pointed me to the paralegal field. I do find law interesting and I am detail oriented.

I am now in my second semester of a paralegal program and I have had serious concerns about my future in the field. I have had to drop classes two semesters in a row because 12 hours of paralegal classes proved much harder than it was carrying 18 hours when I was in college decades ago. (I work part-time at a dead-end job, but at least it's decent pay.) I generally score 90 or above in paralegal classes.

Still, the law books seem to remain foreign to me, learning proper citation makes me feel as though I have dyslexia (I don't) and I'm told I read too much into case scenarios. I have never been able to raise my typing speed to more than nearly 40 wpm, despite decades of typing.

I asked my school's adviser for guidance, and she said paralegals need to be neat, organized, detail oriented and able to meet deadlines. Out of those, I am definitely not neat, and while I can be organized, I'm not sure I'm organized in a way lawyers could find it organized.

I am worried that my return to school will do little to dig me out the career hole I feel I have been in, and I'm not a young person.

Thoughts?

Feeling_Tired in Carrollton, Texas said: "Career placement advisors are similarly useless. They'll listen politely to your situation but never have any useful, real-world advice."....... However, the comment: "They are so cloistered in their ivory towers that they wouldn't know the real world if it hit them in the face." is so true. quotes probably from DLP, Denver

Do not worry - I challenged them too. You are on the right path. You know you have been shoveled "hogwash" about all the paralegal jobs out there.

Just keep applying, even if it says 1-3 years experience. Take any paralegal job you get, they are hard to come by. Apply for IN-house corporate positions in the legal department. AND just get "any job" for now- need paycheck - and send out resumes. You may hit a homerun. Do not even both with the career counselors. Just have a good cover letter, DLP in Denver, has laid this out before, use quality paper, and make sure your resume is in the right format with the correct wording. Go get a job. Lots of times there are paralegal temp assignments - but DO not go to RobertHalf- unless you want a bigger headache- that is from my personal experience. Any agency that jerks your chain, walk away swiftly. Good luck.

Mets in Providence, Rhode Island said: Yeah,

Who knows? The economy COULD turn around.....

Are you serious. Get on the job hunt. Yeah it is a drag - but just out of school-sound awfully pessimistic already. Hand in there and do what yu need to do. And from hindsight - do any job that pays money till you find your paying nitch. My 2cents.

Feeling_Tired in Carrollton, Texas said: This is why my intentions are/were: I wanted to work as a Paralegal for a while to pay off some debt, and go to Law School and become an attorney. That was my honest to God intentions. Since law school has crossed my mind, is it easier for law school students to land certain jobs? I am sorry for that stupid question, but my intuition is telling me that it is.

Yes, I am repluing to a comment 1 month ago. Law School. You do know the market is oversaturated with lawyers. If you do not get into a top , top law school, y0u would most likely be digging yourself into more debt.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I am not venting. In your post, above, you had asked about good things about working in the legal profession and I answered your question with the truth. You will not hear the truth from your paralegal school because, after all, it has to promote the legal profession positively to enroll students.

Of course one cannot say all lawyers are schizoid, primarily because the rest of 'em are difficult, immature, demanding and selfish! :D But, seriously, so many attorneys, especially in litigation, have personality issues. Litigators, understandably, inhabit an adversarial and contentious environment. But in terms of human relations, some of them blur the line between that environment and their office environment. As a result, these individuals are adversarial toward their legal assistants - forgetting that these folks support them and are on their side.

Once again, not all attorneys are SOBs, but I would submit a significant number of them are. I stand behind my remarks. Believe me, it's tough to work for a boss who could put you on the defensive at any time without notice.

Hello all- I am jumping in - As DLP knows, I am a former Paraegal of 10 years. Yes, there are good experiences in law firms - but , as an experienced Paralegal, I stand behind every comment made by DLP above. It is just a true depiction of the real side of working in a law firm. It is a bit different working for IN-house Counsel for a corporation. The whole place is not full of attoneys, if you get my drift.

Feeling_Tired in Carrollton, Texas said: Mets,

If companies keep outsourcing stuff, there won't be any jobs left.

How is the housing market in your area?? Forclosures?? If so, try applying for Forclosure Law.

Yikes - 60 and no interviews. No wonder you are dejected. Take any job, such as bank job in customr service, ie credit cards if they are in your area. My area has a lot of that and I did it Part-time while seeking my 1st Paralegal job. I alo did insurance telemarketing p/t 5-9pm and telemarketing of home security products 5-9pm. Why do I say these. Because, telemarketing jobs P/t are always being advertised - as people come and go- The big qualification is -A Winning personality.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Feeling_Tired in Carrollton, Texas: "If you want to be disheartened, try getting rejected 60 plus times without getting a job interview."

I have eleven years of paralegal experience across four specialties. I've been out of work for nearly two years. Not including headhunter e-mail nonsense, including interviews I've made 205 total contacts. Of these contacts, 134 have been for legal jobs. I've had ten legal interviews and no offers. And you are disheartened. It's a slap in the face that no one values eleven years of legal experience. I'm sure age has a lot to do with it..

DLP- WOOOOO , You bet age discrimination is what is happening to you. Now I truly understand the "Army tank"

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: Are you serious. Get on the job hunt. Yeah it is a drag - but just out of school-sound awfully pessimistic already. Hand in there and do what yu need to do. And from hindsight - do any job that pays money till you find your paying nitch. My 2cents.

Sorry about the above-referenced terse comment. I did not read all former comments.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: DLP- WOOOOO , You bet age discrimination is what is happening to you. Now I truly understand the "Army tank"

I find law firms are now hiring young paralegals right out of drug rehab. So glad I left law.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: Are you serious. Get on the job hunt. Yeah it is a drag - but just out of school-sound awfully pessimistic already. Hand in there and do what yu need to do. And from hindsight - do any job that pays money till you find your paying nitch. My 2cents.

I'm putting out applications now, and even signed up to as many temp agencies as I can (I'm up to six now!) and no one will return my calls, and the resumes I sent out I never hear a word...

Right now I'm going to attend through B.U. a resume and interview class (to find out what I'm doing wrong) as well as following any lead I can, but nothing has materialized.....

Mets, I don't think you are doing anything wrong, it's the company HR people. THEY are not doing anything right and everything wrong. Good luck!

I wonder why that is, DLP....I mean, if you lived in the Boston Area, you'd have to hit them off with a stick!

Thanks also for the kind words, UnemployedPM....I need all the luck I can get! :)

I signed up (as I previously mentioned) for the resume/interview skills class, and I was told that it's a pilot program, so let's see how that works.....