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Nicci in Redmond, Washington

85 months ago

I have a BA degree and a paralegal certificate from an ABA approved program. I have some internship experience. It took me almost 6 months to land my first paralegal job. I left the position because I was lied to about pay, getting my own office, too much gossip, attorneys treating the paralegals like crap, and I was stuck working w/2 paralegals that didn't like me. The money was not enough for me to stay. It was great the first month working there but then I dreaded coming in.

I am back to looking for paralegal work but I am seeing the same thing...most positions require 2-5 yrs experience which I lack. I feel stuck.

I have started looking for paralegal positions in CA. I have seen a lot I can actually apply to but I should not have to move. I am also thinking of going back to school in a totally different field - computers. I feel like I should keep looking but at the same time I don't know how long I should invest in it.

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EBONY in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

85 months ago

I am currently experiencing the same situation in my area. I am unable to find a permanent position, because they require at least 2 years experience. I was unable to find an internship as well. I am really discouraged, and I am going back to school in December to get my Master's in Human Resources.

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Marlene in Lansdale, Pennsylvania

84 months ago

EBONY in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania said: I am currently experiencing the same situation in my area. I am unable to find a permanent position, because they require at least 2 years experience. I was unable to find an internship as well. I am really discouraged, and I am going back to school in December to get my Master's in Human Resources.

The Philadelphia job market for paralegals has all but dried up. Most of the agencies do not have temp positions. I would suggest you get a masters or change your career. Good Luck

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Marlene in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

84 months ago

EBONY in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania said: I am currently experiencing the same situation in my area. I am unable to find a permanent position, because they require at least 2 years experience. I was unable to find an internship as well. I am really discouraged, and I am going back to school in December to get my Master's in Human Resources.

Try this
federalgovernmentjobs.us/jobs/Paralegal-Specialist-1027965.html

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Nicci in Redmond, Washington

84 months ago

Thanks for replying and the advice Displaced. I finally found work. I had to wait almost 3 weeks but it was worth it. I found out today. I hope this position works and isn't as bad as the last law firm I was at.

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Tatieness in Attleboro, Massachusetts

83 months ago

Displaced, I like the advice you gave Nicci to stay put. I'm looking for some healthy perspective (mine is experiencing periodic static).

I took a professional hiatus from my 20+ career working at 3 law firms in various support roles. I have a a proven track record, references, etc.. Sold my house and currently camping in the world's smallest apartment doing a nationwide job search. I have a wealth of IP paralegal experience and want to go into the corporate sector, an entity in California, using my trademark and patent prosecution experience plus due diligence, contract review etc. I'm hitting two very hard walls as follows:

1. The half dozen really interesting jobs with solid companies whom I have had successful initial interviews continue to post on different boards "immediate opening blah blah blah". A little homework shows these companies have been looking to fill these positions for 6-9 months. I can hit the floor running, meet objectives, and I don't want more than fair market value. How do I get a job with purpose and support, if top companies don't know what they want? What's up with these companies?

2. I don't want to blow all my dough only to learn that I have to return to a law firm so I thought I'd kill two birds with one stone (as they say) by finding a head hunter to schedule interviews and go look at real estate. I'm looking for a good fit and headhunters only want to talk about money and nailing down my salary expectations when we don't even have a job interview. What am I doing wrong, or right...

I'm thinking call the top firms myself and see if I can solicit some interest, schedule interviews and look at what's what and then re-evaluate my position. Returning to a law firm because I wanted something more than "a job" and better quality of life on the job.

Help?

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Excellent! Three weeks isn't bad at al

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GG in Birmingham, Alabama

83 months ago

I have always thought that the law area with regard to support personnel was definitely not a place of age discrimination. I know of a case where a lady had retired from a national corp, and took a six week course in Atlanta for legal secretaries, and was hired at one of the top firms there. I don't know here actual age, but I would say 55+, if not a little more.

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cindy in Wilmington, Delaware

81 months ago

Nicci in Redmond, Washington said: I have a BA degree and a paralegal certificate from an ABA approved program. I have some internship experience. It took me almost 6 months to land my first paralegal job. I left the position because I was lied to about pay, getting my own office, too much gossip, attorneys treating the paralegals like crap, and I was stuck working w/2 paralegals that didn't like me. The money was not enough for me to stay. It was great the first month working there but then I dreaded coming in.

I am back to looking for paralegal work but I am seeing the same thing...most positions require 2-5 yrs experience which I lack. I feel stuck.

I have started looking for paralegal positions in CA. I have seen a lot I can actually apply to but I should not have to move. I am also thinking of going back to school in a totally different field - computers. I feel like I should keep looking but at the same time I don't know how long I should invest in it.

I went through the same in the beginning. Your experience at the first job you landed was unfortuanately an example of how it can be in law firms. My area of expertise was Litigation. I quickly became very concerned - worse, Had great credentials, B.A. from Boston University and ABA Paralegal Crtificate from law school program. The grueling and often cruel nature of the attorneys, ruined my life. YES, it did try to use my paralegal skills in other positions. 3 times and wS REJECTED - I had the sklls for thse other jobs as well - I just think for me, my personality makeup was not a fit for working with such gosh awful attornies.
I lost so many paralegal jobs.- Being very attractive as well, 1 time a Sr Partner kept hitting on me and because I did not respond, I was out the door in 6 weeks. I worked for in-house council at 2 different corporations- It was not as bad there . At one place - I got "mixed messages" and finally the "set-up" and out the door I went with a 1-month several package

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Frustrated in Philly in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

81 months ago

Ebony the job market is dried up in Philly! If you don't know someone who can get you in the door you're in trouble. I had to go to Wilmington, DE to get an opportunity in a law department. You may have excellent legal and administrative skill sets but that means nothing when bias is a compelling factor when interviewing for the job. No job forum really talks about this. I say don't stop until you get a PhD in something;broaden your skils sets as much as you can. I will be in school for the next 4 years and I'm 50 with a Bachelor's degree. Don't give up.

EBONY in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania said: I am currently experiencing the same situation in my area. I am unable to find a permanent position, because they require at least 2 years experience. I was unable to find an internship as well. I am really discouraged, and I am going back to school in December to get my Master's in Human Resources.

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kmm in Wilmington, Delaware

80 months ago

Marlene in Lansdale, Pennsylvania said: The Philadelphia job market for paralegals has all but dried up. Most of the agencies do not have temp positions. I would suggest you get a masters or change your career. Good Luck

Hello Marlene - What happened to it? I worked in Philly as a Paralegal until 12/98 - There are so many law firms there - it is a lawyers' town. Kindly update.

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Mrs Advice in Bellevue, Washington

80 months ago

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: One more comment for you, Mrs. Advice. You don't have to patronize or brownnose me, or try to recruit me into your enterprise. I don't appreciate it.

LOL...I don't have an enterprise! In fact if you did write blogs it would be all you! I was just sharing some love! You are far to skeptical my friend!

Sincerely,
Mrs. Advice

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Mrs Advice in Bellevue, Washington

80 months ago

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Mrs Advice in Bellevue, Washington: "LOL...I don't have an enterprise!"

Then what do you call the website you push on nearly every one of your posts? You have said you make money every time someone clicks on any of its links.

"You are far [too] skeptical, my friend!"

Not in the least. I've been to other rodeos. I know baloney and blarney when I see it. So do most people.

I love you. :)

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Mrs Advice in Bellevue, Washington

80 months ago

By the way...ads are how this website makes money look to the right.

You are a very dedicated and passionate person Displaced. I believe that by harnessing that passion you could do anything. Why limit yourself as a paralegal?

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Mrs Advice in Bellevue, Washington

80 months ago

You may have the last word...I'm far to loving a person to argue! I'll send you some love!

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Marlene in Green Lane, Pennsylvania

80 months ago

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: Hello Marlene - What happened to it? I worked in Philly as a Paralegal until 12/98 - There are so many law firms there - it is a lawyers' town. Kindly update.

If I knew the answer to that, I'd be rich or at least employed. This is what I know, I have talked to several recruiters, and looked on several job boards. I would estimate that during the week there may be three to four paralegal jobs. Of course there are several different fields advertised. The hottest fields being IP, Contracta and Immigration. Regarding the temp world, there are more attorneys making 40.00 dollars an hour than there are paralegals making 25.00 to 30.00 an hour on projects. I personally have no desire to work in a law firm. I have a friend that moves every two years, she is currently making 90 thousand a year and is looking for more money. She is considering Delaware. She has her JD but has not take the bar and works as a paralegal. I have another friend who took the bar several times finally passed it and died of cancer. Yeah, Two corporations in Philly are hiring Comcast and Excelon. You probably worked in a lawfirm, what happened to you after 1998?

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Marlene in Green Lane, Pennsylvania

80 months ago

Has anyone used Lawcrossing?

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Marlene in Green Lane, Pennsylvania

80 months ago

Good looking out Denver
Thanks for the info.
Okay my New York paralegals. The job boards look good. What is the deal in the NY job market.

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Steve in Scottsdale, Arizona

80 months ago

Is the paralegal market for IP tried up? I am thinking of changing careers and worried about age discrimination issues. I have IP background from being a consultant working with Hightech entrpernuers. I am thingking of getting a MBA papalegal degree. Is it worth it or am I to old. I am 52.

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MH in San Leandro, California

80 months ago

I'm not in the IP field but IP paralegals seem to be still in demand in this area (SF Bay Area). There's an MBA paralegal degree??

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Steve in Scottsdale, Arizona

80 months ago

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Steve in Scottsdale, Arizona: "Is the paralegal market for IP tried up? I am thinking of changing careers and worried about age discrimination issues. I have IP background from being a consultant working with Hightech entrepreneurs. I am thingking of getting a MBA paralegal degree. Is it worth it or am I too old. I am 52."

You absolutely should be worried about age discrimination. I am an experienced paralegal. I am nearly fifty-seven, with more than eleven years of legal experience, and lost my job. I could not find anything. I am convinced I've suffered age discrimination. It doesn't help that around here many highly qualified people are competing for very few paralegal openings. One's specialty(ies) further limit opportunities. That said, IP appears to be needed around here. I've seen several IP paralegal openings from time to time.

I assume you have a Bachelor's. The only other credential you would need is a paralegal certificate from an American Bar Association-approved program. Those are ample credentials; a Master's is overkill. Good ways to determine the best paralegal qualifications for a particular area are to review classifieds and online paralegal ads, and research paralegal bios online. Most big firms have websites and many of them have paralegal bios.

Finally, I would strongly urge you to stay out of law. Legal work can be interesting, but the stress, deadlines, long hours and PERSONALITIES trump the interest. Although I've heard IP attorneys are not as bad as some attorneys, attorneys are still among the most difficult people to work for. So many attorneys are real personality types. They are abrupt, gratuitously demanding and meager with thanks. If I were you, I'd remain an IP consultant.Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


Thank you very much for your reply. My current career involves Income Planning and Legacy Planning. I was afraid that there was age discriminatio

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Steve in Scottsdale, Arizona

80 months ago

MH in San Leandro, California said: I'm not in the IP field but IP paralegals seem to be still in demand in this area (SF Bay Area). There's an MBA paralegal degree??

yes. George Washington Univeristy.

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Stephen Queen in Baltimore, Maryland

79 months ago

I can relate to many of you. From what I see, the US job market is such a joke. A couple of things:

-"Entry level": No such thing anymore, forget about it. I've seen jobs listed as "entry level" but REQUIRED 3+ years of experience. Um, hello? If you are trying to switch careers, or maybe you are fresh out of school, don't expect to get an "entry level" job without 2+ years of experience. Employers are greedy and don't want to train because investing money in employee training would mean less money for year end bonuses.

-Discrimination/Perception: Another troublesome cornerstone of the US job market is persistent discrimination and the use of stereotypes and perceptions to fill jobs. When an employer has an opening, they aren't 'just' trying to fill that opening they are ALSO trying to fit applicants into a specific perception. This is why women have issues getting science and technology related jobs and are instead herded into "support" roles. If you are perceived to be too "old" you have no chance. Think about, how many jobs have you seen on job sites that said "looking for 'recent' college graduates" or "2008 college graduates wanted." There is NO logical reason to advertise like that UNLESS the employer is looking for someone of a specific age. It IS discrimination.

-Elitism: The US job market is becoming increasingly elitist. Due to sluggish job creation, there aren't enough jobs for everyone, employers know this. So, what do they do? They raise experience and credential requirements. If you didn't go to the "right" school, get the "right" grades, study the "right" subjects, intern at the "right" places and connect with the "right" people, you don't stand a chance of getting a job. Sadly, in this market, "right" usually means, graduating from a n Ivy league school, with a 3.5+ GPA, interned in a Fortune 500 company, and mingled with the top execs while you where there so you can use them for references.

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Mo in Denver, Colorado

79 months ago

I myself have graduated college and have my paralegal graduate degree and am a male paralegal. I have been seeing a lot more men becoming paralegals these days and I also have noticed that jobs are really hard to come by especially when one just gets out of college and firms want to pay their paralegals totally CRAP money like $9.00, $10.00, to $12.00 on the low end like ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!! Law firms might as well go get people from MC Donald's to work for them for that hourly rate. I went to college and paralegal school to get a decent JOB with decent pay!!! Hell $18.00 to $20.00 an hour is not that much to ask that is only like 32,00 to mid 30's salary and that is not that much in this economy. But 18.00/20.00 an hour will do to begin with!! People that have education and that are paralegals that accept the like 9.00, 10.00 or 12.00 an hour jobs are getting so ripped off and the ATTY"S are laughing cause they got you while they are making 100.00 150 an hour that is total BS!! Hell why in this economy go to college if companies/law firms want to pay crap money for us to do their work while atty's are making $100, $150 an hour!! This economy is crazy I have a good friend of mine that went to an excellent University in CO continued on got his Masters and is still making less than when he dropped out of college for awhile. Hell in this economy no one can afford 9.00, 10.00, 12.00 an hour with the rising price of gas, and rising grocery prices. It fells like us educated college grads are getting slapped in the face like oh college doesn't mean much we want so so so much experience. I say BS on so much experience how in the WORLD do companies expect someone out of college to gain experience without being trained. But there is hope around the corner once a Democrat is elected president and jobs and stability come back. Aww those were the days when Bill Clinton was in office where one could practically walk into a lot of decent jobs and practically get handed a job!

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Chris in Richmond, Virginia

76 months ago

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Nicci in Redmond, Washington: "I have a BA degree and a paralegal certificate from an ABA approved program. I have some internship experience. It took me almost 6 months to land my first paralegal job. I left the position because I was lied to about pay, getting my own office, too much gossip, attorneys treating the paralegals like crap, and I was stuck working w/2 paralegals that didn't like me. The money was not enough for me to stay. It was great the first month working there but then I dreaded coming in.

"I am back to looking for paralegal work but I am seeing the same thing...most positions require 2-5 yrs experience which I lack. I feel stuck."

Despite what your paralegal school recruiters told you, there are really very few paralegal jobs, especially when compared to the number of candidates seeking them. They also never mention that working in lawfirms can be difficult and stressful because of the diverse personality and social types which inhabit them.

Although you need experience to be competitive for those jobs, don't kid yourself that experience is the end-all be-all to get them. Around here, based on my experience, five years of experience generally seems to be all that employers will pay for. Anything more and you're overqualified. I have eleven-plus years of experience across four specialties and have been out of work a while. I don't know if I really want to go back to law because of the personality types I've experienced in my two firms.

Continued next post...

Cant you use a paralegal degree for other careers? I mean, knowledge of the law, research skills, written/oral communication skills have to mean something, right? How about with the Federal Govt? There are many high paying administrative positions that a bachelors degree in Paralegal Studies holder can find....or am I wrong?

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Chris in Richmond, Virginia

76 months ago

Im torn right now between a bachelor of paralegal studies or a bachelor of liberal arts. Both have a minor in business admin at university of richmond. If you could go back, would you have chosen a different major?

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kmm in Wilmington, Delaware

76 months ago

The experienced Paralegals would probably go for the Business degree.

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Chris in Richmond, Virginia

76 months ago

I have my Associates degree in Business, but working toward my Bachelors in Paralegal Studies. Honestly, I do not want to be a paralegal, but thought the knowledge could help me obtain a position within the federal govt (ie Social Security Administration Claims, Dept of Justice, etc). Do you think this is a wise move?

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IP Wanna-B, Manhattan (not Ridgewood!) in Ridgewood, New York

73 months ago

"a Master's is overkill."

I just had to contribute to this one... I never thought I saw the day where a MA would be required, but now I have. If you perform a search for AIG on the Career Builder website, you will see an MA and ABA certificate required for a real estate position I know paralegals are perfectly cabable of.

"Good ways to determine the best paralegal qualifications for a particular area are to review classifieds and online paralegal ads, and research paralegal bios online. Most big firms have websites and many of them have paralegal bios."

I agree, if it is a direct post form the client. I have built many resumes and made career changes by reviewing and using information this way. However, make sure they are direct ads from hiring recruiter, not agencies. I have noticed that agencies may inflate requirements just to complete for the placement.

"I would strongly urge you to stay out of law. Legal work can be interesting, but the stress, deadlines, long hours and PERSONALITIES trump the interest."

I wish someone had told me this 20 years ago. I have consulted with many forms and companies during my career and only have had to deal with a few "personalities", I have been lucky that way. I think working for larger firms has had something to do with it, where you have paralegal administrator who can intervene, and in some case re-assign you to another case. My biggest regret, if I have time to think about, is having stayed in litgation so long- all the hours and stress. After 20 years of this, I have the life of a 26 year old, just starting out, never really had the time to "create a life" for myself, was always to busy working...

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IP Wanna-B, Manhattan (not Ridgewood!) in Ridgewood, New York

73 months ago

"I stand by my comments that a Master's is overkill for obtaining an entry paralegal job." No one challenged your comment that it was "overkill". But the fact is that it's here and I gave you the site to look it up for yourself.

"A Bachelor's and paralegal certificate are enough to get someone past the law firm receptionist." Welcome to New York. Resumes go to a Paralegal Administrator or Recruiter.

"Here again, just look at ads. Not once have I seen an ad around here for a paralegal with a Master's. In fact, a significant number of ads are silent regarding educational quals." Again, welcome to NY and the corporate world. I obviously read and am very familiar with the ads or I would not have offered my experience.

"As far as determining authentic local quals. I don't think it matters who posts ads for jobs." Of course it does, and I told you why.

"Paralegal bios will give you a sense of the best credentials and schools to be successful." Agree, in additon, to seek those within the same geographical area you are interested in working.

"Finally, not all paralegals have a "paralegal administrator" who can run interference from them." Yes, this was my point.

"I think most paralegals work in smaller firms." How do you figure. Where would would you confirm this? I always heard the opposite.

"No "paralegal administrator" around to buffer for them." I know, which is why I stated that I was "lucky".

"Finally, "paralegal administrator" or not, you cannot unring the bell after a particular attorney has hassled you. Too much hassling takes a toll after a while." I totally agree that one should search for another position if there are being hassled and are in a fish bowl environment. It is interesting that I should have found this board today as I am searching for IP positions which will probably be taking me out of the corporate and large firm environments and into the smaller boutique firms. Certainly food for thought as I make this transition.

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IP Wanna-B, Manhattan (not Ridgewood!) in Ridgewood, New York

73 months ago

Displaced, I think you are entirely too argumentative, taking others contributions and perspective to the board as personal attacks is off point and hardly beneficial. I think that there are other realities, views and experiences that are just as valid as your own small firm views.
1)
IP Wanna-B: No one challenged your comment that it was "overkill". But the fact is that it's here and I gave you the site to look it up for yourself.
Displaced: That's only one company. I stand by my comment regarding paralegal credentials.

IP Wanna-B: I obviously was not challenging that a BA and certification was not enough to get into a firm- give me a break. I am contributing to the board that the time has come where paralegals may see ads that require more, ie MA, and referred you to the source. I also stated that this was unbelievable to me but true. This also comes from a company I work for.

2)
IP Wanna-B said: Welcome to New York. Resumes go to a Paralegal Administrator or Recruiter.

Displaced: That may be New York - and I would submit resumes go to office managers or the attorneys themselves in smaller firms.

IP Wanna-B: Not disputing that. I just never heard them going to a receptionist. That is what you wrote.
Displaced: Some of you New Yorkers kill me sometimes. You think the world turns around on New York and the rest of the country does not matter. New York is not the only large legal market.
IP Wanna-B: Are you feeling okay?!

[Continued]

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IP Wanna-B, Manhattan (not Ridgewood!) in Ridgewood, New York

73 months ago

IP Wanna-B: Are you feeling okay?! First, I am not a NY’r. Second: When did I say that the “world turns around NY” although to a large degree it does/has, which is so not the point. Let me spell it out for you then, NY along with all other large cities certainly are the largest employer of paralegals. Read your surveys, do the math… ie, 1 Small firm = 1paralegal, 1 Large firm = 60-100 paralegals, 1 large firm = 100 small firm. It actually, kills me to hear a paralegal from a small firm, in small town, speak as though their limited experience is the blueprint for all paralegals. I have mostly worked in large firms, but I have also worked in 1 small and 1 medium firm, so I can compare from experience. Since we are on the topic, what is the other “large legal market”.
4)

IP Wanna-B said: How do you figure [that most paralegals work in smaller firms]. Where would you confirm this? I always heard the opposite.

Displaced: Than you've heard wrong. I was a paralegal. I worked only in smaller firms. I am comfortable saying most firms are small to medium-sized shops. Just look in the Yellow Pages or other reference and you'll see what I mean.

IP Wanna-B: You crack me up. Because you have only ever worked in small firm, that is your proof and statistical analysis? The phone book states how many paralegals are employed? And, what “other references” are you referring to. Perhaps quoting from “primary” sources would be more convincing.

[Continued]

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IP Wanna-B, Manhattan (not Ridgewood!) in Ridgewood, New York

73 months ago

5)
Displaced: I will say you indeed were lucky that you had a "paralegal administrator" to buffer for you when/if lawyers hassled you. Most paralegals are not so lucky.
IP Wanna-B: In my career, I have never been hassled to the extent that warranted a report (knock wood), although I did experienced two incidents where two different attorneys, individually and at separate times, made comments that made me wince, both from the same (medium sized) firm. Now that I am thinking about this, I had also worked with a female attorney at that same firm who later told me that she was suing for harassment. This is why I prefer large firms. I don’t know that I would have stuck out being a para as long as I have if I hadn’t.
[end]

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IP Wanna-B, Manhattan (not Ridgewood!) in Ridgewood, New York

73 months ago

Displaced: I never said my experience is the "blueprint" per se of paralegal employment,

IP Wanna-B: But you are invalidating my large firm, big city experience, and stating that there are more paras employeed by small firm than in large, then insulting me on top of it!

Displaced:..especially compared with your absolute remark that only "big firms" employ paralegals.

IP Wanna-B: There you go again, I never made any such remark.

Displaced: The fact that you regard Denver as a "small town" confirms your NYC arrogance. Anyone who watched any of the Democratic National Convention last month would have seen first hand that Denver is hardly a "small town." Washington, D.C., Houston, Dallas, Los Angeles and San Francisco would be examples of other large legal market.

IP Wanna-B: LOL, I would think all one had to do was pass their HS geography class. I know Dever, may dear. My parents live there.

Displaced: ...I guess I also have to clarify my Yellow Pages remark because you obviously missed that point as well. If you look in the Yellow Pages, you will see that most attorney listings are smaller firms. Smaller firms employ paralegals. I'm not the only paralegal whom a smaller firm has employed. My last firm, which had five attorneys and a sixth attorney of counsel, employed eight paralegals. It had an opening for a ninth paralegal when I left.

IP Wanna-B: Again, that's your primary source? Again, I have worked for a small firm before. I know they employ.

Displaced: Actually, IP Wanna-B, you're the one who has been argumentative during this portion of the discussion.

IP Wanna-B: Displaced, because I fell compelled to clarify the enormous twists you put on my well meaning and well informed comments. You are the one who came out shooting when I was trying to share about MA requirements and made insults about working and living in NYC. You respond defensively when no one's challenging you in the 1st place. That's the difference btw us. Peace.

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IP Wanna-B, Manhattan (not Ridgewood!) in Ridgewood, New York

73 months ago

There you go again...

The contributions I make BECAUSE of my experience hardly need "untwisting". You are one of those people who just can't admit that they are wrong, can you? :-)Or, ever apologize? :-) I'd like to know exactly what "notions" you think I have when my career spans 1 small firm, 1 medium firm, mostly large firms, in both firms and in-house, spanning all 3 sectors, need UNtwisting?

Awww, no one "invalidated" your small firm experience, I ADDED to it since you stated that small firms out employee paras compared to large firms. Still waiting on that primary source (hint, the yellow pages is not a primary source). It is not a rhetorical question. I am reading the annual surveys and I don'e see it.

Displaced, I think you are the one who feels insecure. Remember, you are the one who came out shooting, has not apologized for unwarranted rude remarks, and continues to twist every comment I post. Or, worse, that you twist because you just love to argue for the sake of arguing? I DID take the class on logical fallacies.

I went stir-crazy in Denver. Of course it was Winter.

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IP Wanna-B, Manhattan (not Ridgewood!) in Ridgewood, New York

73 months ago

Ok Displaced, I'll end it.

It is you who Beg's the Question by refusing to present the sources of your blanket statements. I am still waiting on the the source of your comments about small firms because I am genuinely interested. Why wont you answwer me? And

I am Appealling to the Authority of the Annual Surveys, not personal experience.

I make contributions to a board based on experience when it presents a balancing view or something some has not yet mentioned. Unlike you, I never said that it was because of my experience that I beleived that something was so. Why that would just be plain uneducated now wouldn't it?

Do you belong to any para association? Receive any publications? Do you read the surveys? Do you know that surveys actually exisit? Or, do you just beleive what you read posted on the boards? I'm asking retorically for your benefit. Just in case...

Gotta go, the world is falling.

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IP Wanna-B, Manhattan (not Ridgewood!) in Ridgewood, New York

73 months ago

Rhetorically. :-(

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kmm in Wilmington, Delaware

73 months ago

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I guess you didn't see my comment, above, in which I clarified what I meant about "getting past the receptionist."

...absolute remark that only "big firms" employ paralegals. The fact that you regard Denver as a "small town" confirms your NYC arrogance. ....obviously missed that point as well. .. Actually, IP Wanna-B, you're the one who has been argumentative during this portion of the discussion.

Hello- IP Wanna-B - My oh my- what are you arguing about? seriously- And no- you have not gotten the "simple" things DPL has such as "getting past the receptionist" or as I say the "gatekeeper" which is HR.

Truely- I do read "arrogance" in your comments- and the point of that would be???
I am a 10 year experienced Paralegal with credentials- Yes- I have worked in the bg firms in Philadelphia- Lawyers are lawyers- and we work for them. The difference being is how much and how many administrative levels there are in a small -medium- large firm.

Cannot say I understand you attack on DLP- blasting him with your pooh pooh "arrogance" about nothing really. DLP and myself are seasonsed paralegals, and you are also??? You have a lot to say with little content. Good Day

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kmm in Wilmington, Delaware

73 months ago

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Thanks, Cindy. I forgot to mention Philly as an obvious major legal market.

Yeah - Philly is a real "lawyers town". I liked working there.

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kmm in Wilmington, Delaware

73 months ago

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Actually, Denver may not be a bad legal market in terms of major firms. It is a bad legal market in terms of finding work. So many well qualified paralegals together with entry paralegals are competing for very few openings.

For large firm fans, there are a few "influential" ones. I understand one particular firm is well connected with the Democratic Party. I understand it had a lot to do with bringing the DNC here. I've also gained the impression that firm is an SOB in which to work.

Hey DLP- As has been posted by working paralegals in Philadelphia, the market there has literally dried up for jobs due to the economy.

As you must know - the Democratic runner for VIce President is our Delaware Senator Joe Biden. This is going to be exciting.

You said "Some firms are SOB in which to work." I agree. Fell upon this article on aol- "How to Gain an Advantage at the Office" - under career damage it writes: "Not knowing your boss is the worst disadvantage one could have in the workplace." Makes sense to me - next to not getting along with your boss. It higly recommends to be proactive and get a B-Day card to him. In my last office - that was taken care of by 1 office card we all signed, and had a lunch party for all B-Days. That should suffice????Find something in his office you can speak about- depends upon the boss.

Need thoughts- I find I stated out positive with my "difficult" boss and my "uncomfortatble" boss- even did some "kissing up" in the beginnng- but it soon went "flat" due to the demands of the job and my boss's personality that I just could not get a hook on- this is a career damager!!!!

You worked for the same attorney for 7 years- I never made it past 1 year- HUM- says I am "standoffish" - that is a career damager- I think I am more standoffish depending upon the boss's personality- Some bosses were just esier to get along with etc. Weigh in pleae.

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kmm in Wilmington, Delaware

73 months ago

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: ' I've also gained the impression that firm is an SOB in which to work."

Seaking of SOB firms or bosses in general- I find that when you have a demanding boss who loads you up with work- the reason we are gettting paid- there is not time to try and get to know your boss. Learn to get along with him- sometimes that is the best one can do. As others have posted, they have worked for attorneys who wrecked their confidence within a month or so- been there, and also the stress level- hard to go out of your way to get to know boss when he seems to want you in your office working-

I get the "don't make enemies" with your boss and office mates. I like the part in the article where they recommend that if a coworker is a pest- "stare hard into your computer screen and slightly stick your tongue out the corner of your mouth." It gives impression you are in heavy concentration so the coworker takes a hint and leaves.

Personally, I did not know what to do with my BIG Boss that I quickly became "uncomfortable" with and found it "awkard" talking to him for various and sundry reasons.

The article does talk about those who "work solo 100% of the time" That would be us???? Only time I woked on group projects was one time- in-house counsel- and it wa crunch time with 2 back to back huge arbitrations. Actully- it was fun some of that time- we were getting so tired we were geetting slap silly.

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kmm in Wilmington, Delaware

73 months ago

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Continued from above....

says "It's tough to get to know your boss when the individual is aloof and difficult. If the individual unexpectedly lashes out at you, as mine would from time to time, you naturally back away - wondering what the hell you did or what you must do to please the individual. You can do only the best you can.

Thank you DLP- the above sums it all up. You certainly did more than I did-

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kmm in Wilmington, Delaware

73 months ago

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I think that's true, and especially in my last job. But I think it cuts both ways. Bosses should try to get to know their employees. It's a two-way street that turns into a one-way.

Wow- so true "Its a two-way street that turns into a one-way street". That explains why it can start out positive and then go flat- with me stressing myself to the bones trying to meet his work demands. Does not leave time for anything else.

The part where you stated it is natural to back-off , which turns into standoffish behavior- when your boss throws you a left field call, more than once. Yeah- I back-away- it just happens.

In this one firm- the partner came around 1 or 2 x month and tore into the attorneys offices- the attorney I worked for - female, nice, used to make herself not findable when she saw him comming. Smart move.

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confused post-grad in Tacoma, Washington

71 months ago

I graduated two years ago with a B.A. in English and am considering enrolling in an ABA-certified certificate program at the local community college. I found this site in a search for personal essays by paralegals regarding their jobs and I must say that I am now horrified and want to run far far away from this field. What's a girl gotta do to have a vaguely interesting job (for her 20s and beyond) that allows her to write, do research, and perhaps use Spanish-speaking skills? ACH!

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Joel Irving in Lindenhurst, New York

71 months ago

confused post-grad in Tacoma, Washington said: I graduated two years ago with a B.A. in English and am considering enrolling in an ABA-certified certificate program at the local community college. I found this site in a search for personal essays by paralegals regarding their jobs and I must say that I am now horrified and want to run far far away from this field. What's a girl gotta do to have a vaguely interesting job (for her 20s and beyond) that allows her to write, do research, and perhaps use Spanish-speaking skills? ACH!

Some people in this forum are just negative. You need to follow your dreams and they will be fulfilled.

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kmm in Wilmington, Delaware

70 months ago

Marlene in Green Lane, Pennsylvania said:

Yeah, Two corporations in Philly are hiring Comcast and Excelon. You probably worked in a lawfirm, what happened to you after 1998?

I moved to Miami and worked there as a Paralegal.

With today's economic picture, guess everyone wants to stay at their present paralegal job.

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WannaB in Maspeth, New York

70 months ago

LTS,

LOL, of course a comment like this could only come from 'Ol Chip-on-the-shoulder, thinks he owns and runs Indeed's forum, "Disgruntled".. and I wonder why!
Thanks LTS Trainer fron New York for sharing this info very useful to litigation paralegals. I'll pass it along to the other boards and our association.

<If you want to start making 70-120 K then move to Litigation Support. I am a Lexis Nexis certified trainer in Concordance and Casemap. I also am trained in LiveNote. If you don't believe me keep observing the boards. >

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LTS Trainer in New York, New York

70 months ago

Also maybe one of my trainees will give me a whack and a good lesson in spelling and grammar! lol

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WannaB in Maspeth, New York

70 months ago

LDS, I have been a paralegal since the early '80's, with the majority of my experience in litigation. I remember the LS groups developing about 10 years ago and how great it was to have them take so much of the work off of me as a Case Manager. Many Case Managers are now obtaining related certifications, and the salaries are significantly increased (all any has has to do is search the ads on boards like Indeed or read the paralegal trade magazines to see that!). If you have not already, you should definitely contact the paralegal associations in your area (NY and NJ). Definitely contact the NYCPA- New York City Paralegal Association and ask to give a seminar or CLE class. The salaries are significantly higher, but the hours demanding. I have transfered into the Intellectual Property transaction practice area, but could still be called onto a litigation if those cases go into enforcement. I am a fan of Lexis and as a senior paralegal, I am expected make recommendations and look forward to seeing your presentation.

<WannaB thank you so much for the support. I have successfully trained Attorneys and Paralegals in Law Firms in NJ and NY. I currently also train Legal IT remotely in Concordance administration...I also want everyone to know that although there is great advantage for me in training you, the jobs I speak of exists. Law firms do well when the economy goes down and especially litigation teams. Production becomes heavy and everything is done electronically now. So I genuinely care for the people I train and I want them to do well. I real teacher wants her/his students to excel as in that lies great joy.>

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LTS Trainer in New York, New York

70 months ago

Displaced: I sent the link yesterday. The jobs exists for those I train I know companies that are listing directly for these positions and it will continue as all the financial companies are in litigation both civil and federal. Please don't say what you don't know cause i know my stuff and when I say something it is because it is true. I am frank and honest. You can't get a job with a negative attitude. Not every day will every state have an opening but if you were positive you might have nailed one by now. lol Again the feedback is enjoyed either way. Best wished to everyone on this list.

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LTS Trainer in New York, New York

70 months ago

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: The words are "thought" and "Indeed." At least spell the word and the name of the board correctly if you're going to use them.

Thank you for deciding to do the right thing and abide by Indeed's rules.

My friend I posted before you a few words indicative of the point that I recognized my own mistake. I also stated that: "Also maybe one of my trainees will give me a whack and a good lesson in spelling and grammar!..."

So I assume that you are now one of my trainees? lol I'd be happy to oblige dear sire.

Yours,

Chicago Manual of Style lol

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