To Paralegal, or not to Paralegal, that is the question....

I am considering going into the paralegal program at De Anza College in Cupertino, CA. Is this field saturated with paralegals? Are they still in demand? And what pay rate can I realistically expect, entry level with an AA in paralegal, of course? As a single mother, I need a career where I can support my family comfortably. Also, are there work environments where I don't have to wear a stuffy uncomfortable suit? I prefer a casual environment and find that I am much more productive that way.
Thanks

You should check the job search boards, etc., for your area to get a feel for the status of the paralegal profession in your area. Contact your local paralegal association and see what information they can give you as well. Entry-level salaries vary from State to State and even regionally within a State. Again, your local job listings and paralegal association will have the most current information for your area. You can also check out the National Association of Legal Assistant's (NALA) salary survey to get a bird's eye view of salaries across the nation. www.nala.org.

As an entry-level paralegal, (that's what you will be until you've gained substantive work experience in this field) you'll find the profession to be very demanding, with long hours, a lot of stress, and not a lot of room for dealing with 'mom/childcare' issues. If you start out in a 'billable hour' position, with a daily/weekly/monthly/annual quota of billable hours you are required to produce in a range from 1,200-1,600 or more per year. This means, that you will find yourself working late and coming in weekends to ensure that you've met your quota.

As for dress, most law offices I know of have a business dress policy. Though, Plaintiff's PI firms seem to generally be a little less strict about that.

The only sector that might meet your exacting 'wish list' would be the government sector, and paralegal jobs there are highly competitive and hard to come by.

San Jose Student in Windsor, California said: I am considering going into the paralegal program... Is this field saturated with paralegals? Are they still in demand?...

I got my paralegal cert. from UCLA and later transferred to UC Irvine. I worked p/t in civil litigation firms while going to school. I came to this industry with a great attitude and ambitious ideas. I was a Criminology major at UC Irvine and wanted to be a criminal law paralegal. I didn't care who I worked for, whether it was a public defender, prosecutor, or sole practitioner in private practice. Criminal law fascinated me. Well, I found out the hard way that the legal industry is NOT a pleasant environment in which to work, to say the least. I dropped out of UCI but continued as a full time legal secretary while trying to decide what to do next. I knew staying in the industry wasn't an option for me. It's very hard to find a congenial atty who will appreciate your work and treat you fairly. At every firm at which I worked, I had nice coworkers who got along well; yet they hated their jobs and morale was bad. From what I hear from those with experience, that's the norm. I left the industry after 5 years. I could no longer stand it.

My own definition of success is to have a career that has a ladder of success to climb, one where my hard work can actually be rewarded with a promotion. I would also like to own my own home, even if it's just a small condo, and save enough for retirement that I won't be working well into my 70's. I personally, as a single person, would not have been able to accomplish this as a legal secretary or paralegal.

There is a shortage of paralegals/legal secs because those already in the field are fed up and leaving, and the number of those entering the profession aren't enough to cover those who are escaping. Moral is bad and industry wide; turnover is very high.

San Jose Student in Windsor, California said: I am considering going into the paralegal program at De Anza College in Cupertino, CA. Is this field saturated with paralegals? Are they still in demand? And what pay rate can I realistically expect, entry level with an AA in paralegal, of course? As a single mother, I need a career where I can support my family comfortably. Also, are there work environments where I don't have to wear a stuffy uncomfortable suit? I prefer a casual environment and find that I am much more productive that way.
Thanks

Here's a link that may or may not interest you:

www.indeed.com/forum/job/legal-secretary/legal-secretary/t51575

Regarding DLP's comment above: "Attorneys have no compunction about taking advantage of your time and life, yet they can be chary of giving you a few moments of their time. Of course, most jobs involve some staying-late or coming in early from time to time, but law may have the corner on the market."

This is also true of the salary they pay you. They will milk you for everything they can get and pay you least amount possible to get you to keep the job. You always here about employers who complain about employees who do just enough to keep their jobs. Attys/law firms pay their employees barely enough to keep them coming back.

Oops...duh!

"You always 'here' about employers who complain..." I meant "hear."

San Jose Student in Windsor, California said: I am considering going into the paralegal program at De Anza College in Cupertino, CA. Is this field saturated with paralegals? Are they still in demand? And what pay rate can I realistically expect, entry level with an AA in paralegal, of course? As a single mother, I need a career where I can support my family comfortably. Also, are there work environments where I don't have to wear a stuffy uncomfortable suit? I prefer a casual environment and find that I am much more productive that way.
Thanks

Why don't you just go to law school? California is the least expensive state in the country to go to law school at non-ABA law schools.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: The OP is asking about becoming a paralegal, Joel(s), not a lawyer. She would really have a time and child care problem if she became a lawyer. Also, Joel(s), if you knew anything about the legal industry, you would know that non-ABA law school attendance limits opportunities. I know that for a fact, Joel(s). I know a lawyer who attended a non-ABA law school in California. He did well in law school and passed the California bar on his first try. Not many people pass it on the first try. Despite that accomplishment, no firm would hire him.

As usual, Joel(s), you don't know what you're talking about.

Sounds like you friend is a loser like you. However, he should have started his own practice or worked as a paralegal until he got on his feet. It is all about marketing yourself.

Joel,

Your ignorance of the legal profession in general shows through once again. First, most states have a compulsory State Bar in order to practice law in that state - one of the requirements to take the bar exam is graduation from an ABA approved law school. California IS different in that it will allow non-ABA graduates to sit for its Bar Exam. However, should the non-ABA graduate want to move out of CA, he/she would be extremely limited in career opportunities. Second, while the CA Bar may allow non-ABA graduates, many, if not most employers require the ABA graduate credential; often, this is a requirement of their clients (insurance defense, etc.) Third, just how is a freshman attorney, fresh out of law school supposed to set up their own practice? The freshman attorney will not have a network of contacts to refer work to him, advertising is very expensive, and consumers want to know that the attorney they hire has a verifiable, established history in the legal profession. Would YOU hire an unknown attorney, fresh out of law school, to handle your legal representation all by himself?

Lastly, depending on the local job market, most firms are not interested in hiring law-school graduates as paralegals. The purpose of hiring freshman associates is to put them through the associate training process and work them to death to generate those billable hours, which are billed at a higher rate than a paralegal, with the aim being to get them on a partner track. Additionally, law-school graduates demand higher salaries than paralegals, and firms are not willing to pay that kind of salary if they're not going to reap the benefit of commensurately higher billable hour rates.

San Jose Student in Windsor, California said: I am considering going into the paralegal program at De Anza College in Cupertino, CA. Is this field saturated with paralegals? Are they still in demand? And what pay rate can I realistically expect, entry level with an AA in paralegal, of course? As a single mother, I need a career where I can support my family comfortably. Also, are there work environments where I don't have to wear a stuffy uncomfortable suit? I prefer a casual environment and find that I am much more productive that way.
Thanks

___________________________________________________________________

The school you are considering is one of the few community colleges in Northern California that has ABA approval. This is a definite plus. Finding an entry level paralegal job is difficult, although it will be somewhat easier with a certificate from an ABA approved program.

I would urge you to look into other fields. Health and education have very high demands and are fields that are fairly recession proof. Attorneys are some of the most obnoxious, unorganized, and ill-mannered persons walking the face of the earth. Many of them are also afflicted with "foul mouth disease." This means that they swear like bunch of drunken sailors because of things as simple as being unable to locate a file (which is usually right next to them).

Look at some of the other boards where people talk about their experiences in this field. These are all true stories.

Jane Do Girl in Cantonment, Florida said: Joel,

Your ignorance of the legal profession in general shows through once again. First, most states have a compulsory State Bar in order to practice law in that state - one of the requirements to take the bar exam is graduation from an ABA approved law school. California IS different in that it will allow non-ABA graduates to sit for its Bar Exam. However, should the non-ABA graduate want to move out of CA, he/she would be extremely limited in career opportunities. Second, while the CA Bar may allow non-ABA graduates, many, if not most employers require the ABA graduate credential; often, this is a requirement of their clients (insurance defense, etc.) Third, just how is a freshman attorney, fresh out of law school supposed to set up their own practice? The freshman attorney will not have a network of contacts to refer work to him, advertising is very expensive, and consumers want to know that the attorney they hire has a verifiable, established history in the legal profession. Would YOU hire an unknown attorney, fresh out of law school, to handle your legal representation all by himself?

Lastly, depending on the local job market, most firms are not interested in hiring law-school graduates as paralegals. The purpose of hiring freshman associates is to put them through the associate training process and work them to death to generate those billable hours, which are billed at a higher rate than a paralegal, with the aim being to get them on a partner track. Additionally, law-school graduates demand higher salaries than paralegals, and firms are not willing to pay that kind of salary if they're not going to reap the benefit of commensurately higher billable hour rates.

FYI! Most non ABA law school programs offer you a BSL for the first two years of study and students find it useful as a tool to enter the legal profession as a paralegal and then when they finish their fourth year of study...

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Where are your facts to back up your assertion, Joel et al? How did you enter the paralegal profession, Joel et al? That's right! You've never been a paralegal! The truth is what Jane wrote. Law students don't want to be paralegals. Firms will not hire them as paralegals. You don't know what you're talking about.

Posting under "FightBack" to make your first points and "Joel" to back them up are classic sockpuppet use, Joel Irving/Joel Woodard/FightBack/Phoenix. You are sad.

Disbarred attorneys get jobs as paralegals all the time in NY and other parts of the country. What is your point troll?

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: You don't want to go there, Joel.

I just did! And?

Joel,

I'm not a troll. I post here occasionally, when I feel motivated to do so by a particular post or I feel I may have something of value to add to a discussion. I have 2 B.A. degrees, one of which is a Paralegal degree, 7.5 years paralegal experience, and currently serve on the Board of the local Paralegal Association.

As for your comments regarding disbarred attorneys working as Paralegals... well, they really have nowhere else to go in the legal profession, so I'm sure the firms that hire them can get them at a discount vs. a fresh law-school graduate who fully intends to become, and work as, an attorney. Although, I'm not sure it says much for the firms who hire disbarred attorneys as paralegals - paralegals should be held to the same ethical standards as attorneys, and obviously a disbarred attorney has already proven their disregard for ethics and professionalism

Jane Do Girl in Cantonment, Florida said: Joel,

I'm not a troll. I post here occasionally, when I feel motivated to do so by a particular post or I feel I may have something of value to add to a discussion. I have 2 B.A. degrees, one of which is a Paralegal degree, 7.5 years paralegal experience, and currently serve on the Board of the local Paralegal Association.

As for your comments regarding disbarred attorneys working as Paralegals... well, they really have nowhere else to go in the legal profession, so I'm sure the firms that hire them can get them at a discount vs. a fresh law-school graduate who fully intends to become, and work as, an attorney. Although, I'm not sure it says much for the firms who hire disbarred attorneys as paralegals - paralegals should be held to the same ethical standards as attorneys, and obviously a disbarred attorney has already proven their disregard for ethics and professionalism

If you want to disagree with me, do it without making personal attacks. Personal attacks are a sign of insecurity and a lack of self-esteem. Posters like you and DPL should be banned from forums like this one.

Someone once gave me a tip, it bears repeating "It's always best to ignore ignorance."