Paralegal school - is it worth it? Probably not.

Ok. I did a little research on a paper I have to write for my Economics of Education class. My topic is on the rates of returns to education for what journal articles refer to as "proprietary" schools, in other words, vocational private schools that sometimes offer an AA but usually just a diploma or certificate.

I chose this topic because it seems that these schools charge a lot more than a typical four-year public university, but a degree from the public university will probably get the person a much better paying job.

I called the local paralegal school in my area. The program costs $12,580 if you come in with your general ed done, almost $26k (!!) if you start from scratch. My work always get faxes from this school, a profile of some of their recent grads and their skills and the pay they are seeking - $12-$15/hr. That's a hellofalot of tuition to pay for such low wages. My bachelor's degree will have costed me roughly $9000 when I'm done. Had I done all four years at a U, roughly $16000. Of course, that doesn't include books, supplies, housing. Neither do the numbers above for the paralegal school.

I found an intersting article that I haven't yet had time to read in its entirety, but so far, I've read that "Proprietary schools have substantially higher direct costs than community colleges..." and "Studies find that they don't substantially increase earnings..." and "They are controversial because the high rate of loan default" Apparently, the high default rate stems from the fact that it's high school drop outs and minorities who are most likely choose these schools, people from disadvantaged socioeconomic backgrounds who are not aware of the options they have.

To exacerbate all the above, being a paralegal or legal secretary is probably one of the worst jobs out there. The lack of advancement opportunity, but more importantly the hostile environment and abuse make it so not worth it even if the pay were decent.

I certainly won't argue with your concluding points, dh, about being a paralegal or legal secretary, and especially regarding the hostile environment and abuse.

On the other hand, but for my proprietary paralegal school I wouldn't have been able to work in the legal industry altogether. At the very least my ABA certificate opened the door. I eventually earned substantially better pay than I earned in my prior radio and aviation careers (which tells you how little those careers pay). Because I was earning decent money, relatively speaking, I was able to repay my $7.5K paralegal school student loans years ahead of their due dates.

When I earned my paralegal certificate my school was about the only one in my area that offered the program. I already had a four-year degree, so earning a second degree was unnecessary. Moreover, my proprietary school program was seven and a half months long. It enabled me to get back to work sooner than if I had attended a college program.

My proprietary paralegal school worked for me to a point. It helped me get "better" jobs at better pay than I had been earning. But, otherwise, make no mistake about it. Nonlawyer pay caps out comparatively low against the education required to earn it. Enduring the corrosive work environment is another, unquantifiable, price one pays for working in the legal industry.

Why didn't you simply go to your local college/university or junior college instead of a proprietary college? They're WAY cheaper and often carry ABA accreditation as well. Here in Richmond, VA, we have a major university + a community college program, as well as 2 proprietary programs. Only 1, the community college program, is ABA accredited and costs WAY less than any of the other.

BFE in Richmond, Virginia said: Why didn't you simply go to your local college/university or junior college instead of a proprietary college?

Once again, as I wrote, above, at the time I earned my paralegal certificate my paralegal school was about the only one in my area that offered a paralegal program.

One other proprietary school offered a paralegal program. To the best of my recollection, no colleges or universities offered paralegal certificate programs or degrees.

One further point. Law firms were hiring paralegals who primarily attended my school.

I went to a proprietary paralegal school. You had to already have a bachelors degree to get into the program. It cost $7500 and took 5 months. I got the paralegal certificate 15 years after my bachelors degree. There would have been no point to go to a "real" college because I already had a college degree and it would have taken a lot longer. My bachelors degree cost, I don't know, at least $50,000 (1980s). The paralegal school I went to was ABA approved.

The certificate led to an entry level career oriented position. I have been in the field 10 years. I don't find the office abusive at all. It can be challenging. It's hard trying to always produce perfect flawless work.

Half my paralegal class never found a job working as a paralegal.

Half my paralegal class never found a job working as a paralegal.

You live in Texas, and half of your class didn't get a job as a working paralegal. Texas is supposed to be the land of opportunity.

Paralegal in Carrollton, Texas said: I went to a proprietary paralegal school. You had to already have a bachelors degree to get into the program. It cost $7500 and took 5 months.

Sounds virtually identical to my proprietary ABA school. My school required a college transcript as an admission requirement. A copy of my diploma wasn't good enough.

My school offered five month and seven-and-a-half month day programs. I attended the seven-and-a-half month program.

Paralegal in Carrollton, Texas said: I got the paralegal certificate 15 years after my bachelors degree. There would have been no point to go to a "real" college because I already had a college degree and it would have taken a lot longer.

Same, except I earned my degree twenty years before I went to paralegal school. I finally put my degree to work for real in law.

I don't know how my class fared in obtaining employment. We basically parted ways after graduating. But I can say people who had graduated from my school six months before I did were still looking for jobs. Some of them had prior legal experience. That said, and in fairness, the Denver paralegal market has always been tight for as long as I can remember.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I certainly won't argue with your concluding points, dh, about being a paralegal or legal secretary, and especially regarding the hostile environment and abuse...

Hi DLP - I was thinking about you as I wrote that and hoped that I wasn't being offensive. My paralegal certificate from UCLA cost me $3000 in 2000 and took 4 months. They required a bachelor's degree, but I was able to get in, if I recall, because of my court reporting background. I don't understand why some of them wnat a degree for paralegal school. I don't think of paralegal as that kind of career that should require it. For me, going to paralegal school was the first of a series of several bad decisions that I made. I never did land a paralegal job because word processing positions were paying much more than the entry level paralegal positions.

I think the prices you and I paid are reasonable considering the pay potential. I think $26K is extremely unreasonable when considering the pay. We have a lot of what I call "fly-by-night" vocational schools that charge A LOT of money for jobs that don't pay that great. For example, I had a student med tech draw my blood recently. She's not going to school to be a nurse, something much more basic than that. She says the job will pay about $12/hour and told me where she's going to school; I bet the tuition is around $10K a year.

It just seems that these little vocational schools prepare people for jobs that, on average, have a lower pay potential (in comparison to what a bachelor's degree could get), yet they cost the most. Of course, that depends on the degree AND I'm assuming we're in a normal economy.

BFE in Richmond, Virginia said: Why didn't you simply go to your local college/university or junior college instead of a proprietary college? They're WAY cheaper and often carry ABA accreditation as well. Here in Richmond, VA, we have a major university + a community college program, as well as 2 proprietary programs. Only 1, the community college program, is ABA accredited and costs WAY less than any of the other.

I went to UCLA for 4 months at $3000. That was in 2000. I never did use my certificate.

dh in Northern CA, California said: I was thinking about you as I wrote that and hoped that I wasn't being offensive.

Absolutely not, dh, not in the least.

dh in Northern CA, California said: I don't think of paralegal as that kind of career that should require [college degree].

dh in Northern CA, California said: On the other hand, traditional paralegals, especially in big firms, have been regarded as professionals in every way. They have been regarded as virtual equals to attorneys. (N.B. my use of the present perfect tense.) As such, firms have wanted paralegals to be degreed, though I'd bet big firms want degreed paralegals to bill them higher and/or make them more attractive, i.e. "professional," to institutional clients.

From what I've learned, as with attorneys, paralegals in big firms have had their own offices. As with attorneys, they have had legal secretary/legal assistant support. I had my own office, but I was supported by moi. Now, I think much of that is changing. Paralegals must now be self supporting (as are many attorneys). I understand many of these heretofore supported folks don't like that. They probably don't do windows, either.

dh in Northern CA, California said: I think the prices you and I paid are reasonable considering the pay potential. I think $26K is extremely unreasonable when considering the pay.

Of course it is. George Washington U. offers its Master of Paralegal Studies degree for that kind of money. The program is NOT ABA approved. It is esoteric primarily to D.C. I haven't priced real Master's programs, but I should think one could obtain a Master's with legitimate, widely recognized, marketable value, such as an M.B.A., M.A., M. Ed., etc. for $26K.

So, dh, as an Econ major, whaddaya think will happen with the economy?

dh in Northern CA, California said: I was thinking about you as I wrote that and hoped that I wasn't being offensive.

Absolutely not, dh, not in the least.

dh in Northern CA, California said: I don't think of paralegal as that kind of career that should require [college degree].

On the other hand, traditional paralegals, especially in big firms, have been regarded as professionals in every way. They have been regarded as virtual equals to attorneys. (N.B. my use of the present perfect tense.) As such, firms have wanted paralegals to be degreed, though I'd bet big firms want degreed paralegals to bill them higher and/or make them more attractive, i.e. "professional," to institutional clients.

From what I've learned, as with attorneys, paralegals in big firms have had their own offices. As with attorneys, they have had legal secretary/legal assistant support. I had my own office, but I was supported by moi. Now, I think much of that is changing. Paralegals must now be self supporting (as are many attorneys). I understand many of these heretofore supported folks don't like that. They probably don't do windows, either.

dh in Northern CA, California said: I think the prices you and I paid are reasonable considering the pay potential. I think $26K is extremely unreasonable when considering the pay.

Of course it is. George Washington U. offers its Master of Paralegal Studies degree for that kind of money. The program is NOT ABA approved. It is esoteric primarily to D.C. I haven't priced real Master's programs, but I should think one could obtain a Master's with legitimate, widely recognized, marketable value, such as an M.B.A., M.A., M. Ed., etc. for $26K.

So, dh, as an Econ major, whaddaya think will happen with the economy?

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Absolutely not, dh, not in the least... So, dh, as an Econ major, whaddaya think will happen with the economy?

Honeslty, DLP, I don't know what I think about the economy. With 15 units and working 20 hours, I don't have time for TV or reading the newspaper. I even disconnected my cable because I never had time for it. But watching CNN and CNBC would enlighten me, to say the least. I keep thinking I'm going to have it reconnected and have put it off. Last semester, the economy was something we discussed in every all of my classes, and I often felt out of the loop because I spent NO time reading newspaper or watching the news. This semester, unfortunately, we aren't discussing the economy in my classes.

I have subscriptions to both Newsweek and Bizweek, which I rarely get to read. I think that people keep waiting for it to get better. They talk about it like it's going to happen next month. Cycles go up and down. Yeah, our economy will get better, but it could take 2 or 3 years. The company for which I work didn't start to suffer until after the holidays, and last week, each department was required to come up with a "contingency" layoff plan. The last two quarters of last year, the company did unusually well. It's unpredictable.

I'm embarrassed to say this, but I feel totally sheltered and out of the loop. Until the company started talking about layoffs last week, I had been, for the most part, unaffected by the economy and have felt very fortunate.

dh in Northern CA, California said: Honeslty, DLP, I don't know what I think about the economy. With 15 units and working 20 hours, I don't have time for TV or reading the newspaper.

****

Yeah, our economy will get better, but it could take 2 or 3 years....

****

I'm embarrassed to say this, but I feel totally sheltered and out of the loop. Until the company started talking about layoffs last week, I had been, for the most part, unaffected by the economy and have felt very fortunate.

You're right. The media does make it sound as if the economy will improve next week. Probably not - though the stock market is doing better.

Read a Cliff Notes on Keynes and you'll be up to speed in no time.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: You're right. The media does make it sound as if the economy will improve next week. Probably not - though the stock market is doing better.

Read a Cliff Notes on Keynes and you'll be up to speed in no time.

DLP, I have been reading your posts for a while. Is being a paralegal REALLY as bad as you say? I have been thinking about becoming one because I love writing, researching, and helping people. Did you feel like you were able to help people in your role? I would eventually like to use my knowledge of the legal field to help animals. But the more I read your posts, I think maybe I'd be better off just helping animals in other ways. I am just so confused and need to make a career choice in my life as I'm 25 and have a year of college finished. Should I pick a different career path? I hear from some people that Paralegals can make great money and have great careers. Are well paying jobs in the field hard to come by?

First off, Sidney, thanks for posting.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: Is being a paralegal REALLY as bad as you say?

Based on more than eleven years of experience working for estates, probate and elder law attorneys, and a plaintiffs' PI and claimants' Workers Comp partner, I think it is.

I can tell you that law can be interesting. But if you have been reading my posts, you will have seen that my primary beefs are with lawyers and working conditions. In a nutshell, lawyers are primarily difficult, contentious and unreasonably demanding and ungrateful people. One needs rhinoceros skin, titanium nerves and an iron constitution to work in any nonlawyer capacity.

In terms of working conditions, my experience is one can expect to work many long, stressful hours, with many of those hours unpaid. As a paralegal, one is routinely expected to be a can-do person who can pull off unexpected and unplanned miracles. All in all, paralegal is a very tough job.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I love writing, researching, and helping people....

I, too, love to write. I loved legal research. To be fair, I did a lot of writing while employed in law but not one iota of real legal research. That disappointed me.

Paralegal schools (mis)lead one to believe that legal research is a vital paralegal role. In the real world of law, it is not. I volunteered my abilities to my first firm. The shareholder wasn't interested. Associates conducted legal research. Though malpractice could be the reason why nonlawyers did not conduct legal research, I think the real reason was money. Associates are billed out higher than paralegals.

Continued, below...

where's the next part?

Continued....

In my next firm, the partner had been on law review. No chance of him forking over any legal research to me.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: Did you feel like you were able to help people in your role?

Yes. My experience is paralegals spend more time working with clients than attorneys. Paralegals are more accessible to clients than attorneys. But, ultimately, attorneys get all the credit and glory. I think that's because, bottom line, paralegal is a legal support vocation.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I would eventually like to use my knowledge of the legal field to help animals. But the more I read your posts, I think maybe I'd be better off just helping animals in other ways.

I honestly don't know what legal specialty(ies) would involve animals. But I agree with you. You may find being veterinary technicin to be more satisfying. Vet techs actually work with animals hands-on.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I hear from some people that Paralegals can make great money and have great careers. Are well paying jobs in the field hard to come by?

Define "great." Once again, I think paralegal is a tough vocation in a tough industry.

As far as well-paying jobs being hard to come by, at least around here all paralegal jobs are hard to come by. This market is very competitive, even in good times. Very few jobs come open and many excellent people compete for them. No matter how good you think you are, other people will always be better. That can be said, of course, for all vocations. Perhaps at one time the vocation was wide open; schools would advertise that paralegal is a growth vocation. Now it appears the legal industry has absorbed all the paralegals it can and is now jettisoning many of them because of the economy.

Hope all this helps. Good luck with however you proceed.

Continued....

In my next firm, the partner had been on law review. No chance of him forking over any legal research to me.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: Did you feel like you were able to help people in your role?

Yes. My experience is paralegals spend more time working with clients than attorneys. Paralegals are more accessible to clients than attorneys. But, ultimately, attorneys get all the credit and glory. I think that's because, bottom line, paralegal is a legal support vocation.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I would eventually like to use my knowledge of the legal field to help animals. But the more I read your posts, I think maybe I'd be better off just helping animals in other ways.

I honestly don't know what legal specialty(ies) would involve animals. But I agree with you. You may find being a veterinary technician to be more satisfying. Vet techs actually work with animals hands-on.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I hear from some people that Paralegals can make great money and have great careers. Are well paying jobs in the field hard to come by?

Define "great." Once again, I think paralegal is a tough vocation in a tough industry.

As far as well-paying jobs being hard to come by, at least around here all paralegal jobs are hard to come by. This market is very competitive, even in good times. Very few jobs come open and many excellent people compete for them. No matter how good you think you are, other people will always be better. That can be said, of course, for all vocations.

Perhaps at one time the vocation was wide open; schools would advertise that paralegal is a growth vocation. Now it appears the legal industry has absorbed all the paralegals it can and is now jettisoning many of them because of the economy.

Hope all this helps. Good luck with however you proceed.

I do very little writing from scratch, no research and the only people I am helping are my attorney-bosses. I can't think of any area of law that involves animals.

My starting salary as a paralegal was $30,000 and is now $48,000 and it's my 10th year working. There are currently very few available paralegal jobs.

Paralegal in Carrollton, Texas said: My starting salary as a paralegal was $30,000 and is now $48,000 and it's my 10th year working. There are currently very few available paralegal jobs.

I started in my first firm at $24K on a contract basis with no benies. The firm hired me full time at $21K with benies. It gratuitously raised me back to $24K three months later. My entry pay was par for 1995. It was more than I made in my two previous careers.

After more than eleven years, my pay was $40K + bonus. I had joined my next firm and remained there just short of seven years. My last raise was four and a half years before I was gone. $48K-$54K is par for a ten-year (or less) paralegal around here. Your wage scale, Carrollton (Dallas?), sounds similar to paralegal wages around here.

Paralegal in Carrollton, Texas said: I do very little writing from scratch, no research and the only people I am helping are my attorney-bosses. I can't think of any area of law that involves animals.

My starting salary as a paralegal was $30,000 and is now $48,000 and it's my 10th year working. There are currently very few available paralegal jobs.

I'm honestly shocked that you don't seem to be aware of any area of the law that helps animals. Just look at what recently went on in California. Animal law is very important. There's even this:
www.aldf.org/article.php?id=269
The Animal Legal Defense Fund...and if I became a paralegal, I would definitely join.

I just wish the field sounded more encouraging because I think it sounds like it has the potential to be a good career. However, being treated horribly be lawyers would really be upsetting to me...and unhealthy. I can't imagine going through that kind of stress on a daily basis. I think they would be very intimdating people.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Continued....

In my next firm, the partner had been on law review. No chance of him forking over any legal research to me.

Yes. My experience is paralegals spend more time working with clients than attorneys. Paralegals are more accessible to clients than attorneys. But, ultimately, attorneys get all the credit and glory. I think that's because, bottom line, paralegal is a legal support vocation. I honestly don't know what legal specialty(ies) would involve animals. But I agree with you. You may find being a veterinary technician to be more satisfying. Vet techs actually work with animals hands-on. Define "great." Once again, I think paralegal is a tough vocation in a tough industry.

As far as well-paying jobs being hard to come by, at least around here all paralegal jobs are hard to come by. This market is very competitive, even in good times. Very few jobs come open and many excellent people compete for them. No matter how good you think you are, other people will always be better. That can be said, of course, for all vocations.

Perhaps at one time the vocation was wide open; schools would advertise that paralegal is a growth vocation. Now it appears the legal industry has absorbed all the paralegals it can and is now jettisoning many of them because of the economy.

Hope all this helps. Good luck with however you proceed.

I guess by great, I would think $50-75k would qualify as great.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I'm honestly shocked that you don't seem to be aware of any area of the law that helps animals. Just look at what recently went on in California. Animal law is very important. There's even this: [citation omitted]...and if I became a paralegal, I would definitely join.

But does this organization **employ** paralegals, Sidney? I'm thinking in terms of actual employment and known legal specialties. Even so, while important, I would think animal law, in and of itself, would be niche/boutique specialty. It would be different if a firm with a more general practice also practiced animal law.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I just wish the field sounded more encouraging because I think it sounds like it has the potential to be a good career. However, being treated horribly be lawyers would really be upsetting to me...and unhealthy. I can't imagine going through that kind of stress on a daily basis. I think they would be very intimidating people.

You got it, my friend. You hit the nail on the head with every one of your points. Paralegal could be a good career but for working for lawyers. And, again, that's my beef with the legal industry.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I guess by great, I would think $50-75k [pay] would qualify as great.

That pay is possible in some markets after several years. But bear in mind one's pay cap out. Once again, paralegal is a support position. Support positions generally do not pay as well as supervisory positions. Even if one is fortunate enough to land a great paying nonlawyer position, one pays for it through the nose in the ways you have noted.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I'm honestly shocked that you don't seem to be aware of any area of the law that helps animals. Just look at what recently went on in California. Animal law is very important. There's even this: [citation omitted]...and if I became a paralegal, I would definitely join.

But does this organization **employ** paralegals, Sidney? I'm thinking in terms of actual employment and known legal specialties. Even so, while important, I would think animal law, in and of itself, would be a niche/boutique specialty. It would be different if a firm with a more general practice also practiced animal law.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I just wish the field sounded more encouraging because I think it sounds like it has the potential to be a good career. However, being treated horribly be lawyers would really be upsetting to me...and unhealthy. I can't imagine going through that kind of stress on a daily basis. I think they would be very intimidating people.

You got it, my friend. You hit the nail on the head with every one of your points. Paralegal could be a good career but for working for lawyers. And, again, that's my beef with the legal industry.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I guess by great, I would think $50-75k [pay] would qualify as great.

That pay is possible in some markets after several years. But bear in mind one's pay caps out. Once again, paralegal is a support position. Support positions generally do not pay as well as supervisory positions. Even if one is fortunate enough to land a great paying nonlawyer position, one pays for it through the nose in the ways you have noted.

Sidney:

The people on this board are not the be all and end all representing the Paralegal profession. Yes, paralegal can be a stressful job, yes, there are attorneys who can be difficult to work for, BUT - any job can be stressful and you can have a difficult boss in any profession. Not all attorneys are as 'horrible' as often described on this board.

If you really want a balanced perspective, I suggest you check out the LAT ListServe at www.legalassistanttoday.com/lat-forum/default.htm as well as the many paralegal groups on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a great resource as you can connect with many notable Paralegals such as Vicki Voisin, Cheri Estrin, Jeannie Johnston, and many others. You really want to talk to those who are successful in this profession and ask them what it took and how they did it.

As for animal law, that is a very niche profession and I'm sure paralegal jobs in that area are few and far between. You would certainly have to go where those jobs are. If working with animals is your primary goal, you may want to consider either going to law school so you can make more of that work come to you and really be effective, or choose another way to help animals. Hope this is helpful.

Based on more than eleven years of working with and for lawyers, and all the unpaid hours I put in and stress I endured, I stand by my comments.

Folks, we all have our different opinions.

I too worked free hours - for my first personal injury attorney - five years. I did learn a lot and got experience - but he kept telling me I was "salary." I finally left.

At Ruden and Fowler, they were both big law firms - and we got paid for the hours we worked.

I chose to work for the first job. My "married boyfriend attorney" asked questions and kept telling me to get another job. I finally did when I went full time to get my Bachelor's Degree. I never again worked without getting paid. And when George (PI) asked me to stay after, I reminded him of what the hours were and those are the hours I got paid for - and unless he paid me, I would not work for free.

Bottom line is:
(1) Don't work for free. Unless you are getting paid, don't work. If the attorney says something, remind him you are not getting paid the same amount of money he is and you need to be paid.

(2) If your attorney is beyond normal in behavior, then go look for another job. Not all attorneys act like that.

I have been a paralegal for over 20 years. Here's the thing: there are many good things about being a paralegal and there are plenty of people out there promoting the profession as the fastest growing, etc. I don't believe any one on this board has ever said they are the "be all and end all representing the paralegal profession." Their experiences, whether good or bad, are just as important to hear as "those who are successful in this profession" - although just because a paralegal has had a bad experience in a law firm does not mean they are not successful. If you are really interested in becoming a paralegal, you can't know if it is right for you unless you hear both the good and bad that is out there. So read these boards. Connect with those "notable" Paralegals Jane Do Girl suggests. Call a local law firm in your area, tell them you are considering becoming a paralegal and ask if any of their paralegals would be willing to talk to you about their work experiences. Make sure you fully understand what a paralegal job entails. Understand that right now with this economy many law firms are cutting a lot of support staff. Then you can hopefully decide for yourself if it would be a good career choice for you. Good luck. I am sure you will be successful in whatever you choose. (By the way, I am also Working Paralegal in Austin, Texas)

Mary inTampa in Tampa, Florida said: Don't work for free. Unless you are getting paid, don't work. If the attorney says something, remind him you are not getting paid the same amount of money he is and you need to be paid.

I agree. Great response if you can pull it off and keep your job or are easily employable, Mary. But one tends to be more temperate in responding if one is in a tight market and needs the job. Once again, don't forget the Golden Rule: He who has the Gold makes the Rules. In this case, attorneys/law firms surely have the gold.

I was also salaried, so, technically, I wasn't working for free. Most companies compute salary based on a standard, 40-hour workweek, more or less, because there are occasions when one must put in extra hours. I did on a regular basis. I routinely worked fifty hour weeks; even more toward the end of my time with that firm. Accordingly, I submit I put in many uncompensated, and unacknowledged and unrecognized, hours. Bad enough not to be paid for putting in extra hours, but it's worse when one isn't truly thanked for one's contributions. Another reason why I say that being a paralegal and dealing with attorneys is a tough job. And I was "successful."

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I'm honestly shocked that you don't seem to be aware of any area of the law that helps animals. Just look at what recently went on in California. Animal law is very important. There's even this:
www.aldf.org/article.php?id=269
The Animal Legal Defense Fund...and if I became a paralegal, I would definitely join.

We're talking about paralegal JOBS.

Wow..this is a forum and people can add other points. No need to be so rude. There are animal rights attorneys, and yes, it is a niche which I'm well aware of, but I was asking more about the opportunity that paralegals have to get involved in animal law. It would be more of a volunteer effort, but I thought someone might know. You don't seem like the type who would volunteer though because you're jumping down someone's back on a message board who is just trying to seek information.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: There are animal rights attorneys, and yes, it is a niche which I'm well aware of, but I was asking more about the opportunity that paralegals have to get involved in animal law. It would be more of a volunteer effort....

As a volunteer, sure. Why not? But I gathered you were curious about paralegal employment in an animal rights specialty(ies).

Sidney:

Again, I refer you to the LAT ListServe and LinkedIn - much broader audience from all over the country, someone there may have more specific information about volunteering in animal law. Also, google is a wonderful tool. ;-)

Jane Do Girl in Milton, Florida said: Sidney:

Again, I refer you to the LAT ListServe and LinkedIn - much broader audience from all over the country, someone there may have more specific information about volunteering in animal law. Also, google is a wonderful tool. ;-)

Thanks, Jane! Your replies have been very helpful and encouraging.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: Wow..this is a forum and people can add other points. No need to be so rude. There are animal rights attorneys, and yes, it is a niche which I'm well aware of, but I was asking more about the opportunity that paralegals have to get involved in animal law. It would be more of a volunteer effort, but I thought someone might know. You don't seem like the type who would volunteer though because you're jumping down someone's back on a message board who is just trying to seek information.

If you are this sensitive, you don't want to work in the legal industry. Attorney are tough because there is a lot at stake. You have to have thick skin and not take things personal.

I am trying to tell you that being an animal rights paralegal is pro bono work - volunteer work. Going to and paying for paralegal school with the hopes of finding a paying job doing animal rights is foolish and misguided. You might be able to find a $10/hr job working for a solo practitioner who might get some dog bite cases.

Assume much? I've already researched this and there are animal rights attorneys and that's all that they deal with. I'm interested in this field because of the work itself. As far I'm concerned, being able to help animals have a voice would just be an added benefit (even if it were pro bono work).

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I've already researched this and there are animal rights attorneys and that's all that they deal with. I'm interested in this field because of the work itself. As far I'm concerned, being able to help animals have a voice would just be an added benefit....

Nothing wrong with that, but realize that animal rights law is a niche/boutique specialty. You will have limited employment opportunities. I can almost assure you that a real animal rights lawyer won't hire you as an entry paralegal. More than likely, as Carrollton wrote, above, your first job will be in a small firm - that is, if you can beat out your competition for that job. After you gain experience, you may have a chance.

Somehow, Sidney, I sense that except for Jane Do's comments other posters, including me, are telling you things about law you didn't expect to hear, and you don't like it. You came here for advice. You asked me if working in law is truly as tough as I've written. I've answered you and I've given it to you straight. So have the other posters. If you've followed their comments, you will see that they have been successful in the industry. Perhaps you should pay attention to our comments about law being a tough industry.

Wow, you both like to make assumptions. I said that I would seek out volunteer opporunities to help in animal law, but neither of you know much about it, so who are you to give me advice on the matter just because you're a paralegal? You don't specialize in that area of law. I wouldn't seek out that position specifically because there are only a handful of animal rights attorneys in the United States.

I'm grateful for any and all advice that anyone can give me on this message board - the good and the bad. I came here to get the truth. DLP, I'm going to be totally honest with you though...you seem to discourage EVERYONE who comes here from becoming a paralegal and it seems like you do this because you are currently unemployed in the industry. It's like the saying "misery loves company." You remind me of that quote so much. I don't mean that disrespectfully, but I lurked for a long time and read your posts before ever responding and truly, you are so discouraging to anyone who seeks advice on this matter. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience in your career, but I know for a fact that there are paralegals who love their jobs and not ALL attorneys could be horrible to work for. My own grandfather was an attorney and so was my uncle.

For the record, I'm undecided on whether I'd like to go into this profession at this point, but I'm just calling it how I see it.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Nothing wrong with that, but realize that animal rights law is a niche/boutique specialty. You will have limited employment opportunities.for that job.
.

I believe I stated quite clearly in my previous posts that I know that this is a niche area of the law and that the opportunities woud be strictly volunteer based. This is something that's in my heart-I would not feel comfortable profiting from something like that...I would WANT to volunteer for the effort.

Paralegal in Carrollton, Texas said: If you are this sensitive, you don't want to work in the legal industry. Attorney are tough because there is a lot at stake. You have to have thick skin and not take things personal.

I am trying to tell you that being an animal rights paralegal is pro bono work - volunteer work. Going to and paying for paralegal school with the hopes of finding a paying job doing animal rights is foolish and misguided. You might be able to find a $10/hr job working for a solo practitioner who might get some dog bite cases.

When I read the comments the first time, that is exactly what I thought. If you are this sensitive, then you are not fit for the legal office.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: Wow, you both like to make assumptions. I said that I would seek out volunteer opportunities to help in animal law, but neither of you know much about it, so who are you to give me advice on the matter just because you're a paralegal? You don't specialize in that area of law.

Sorry, Sidney, but this is a paralegal discussion (and actually about the value against cost of attending paralegal school). The participants here are primarily paralegals (dh was a legal word processor). You asked about being a paralegal. Once again, you asked ME if the job is as tough as I have portrayed. I told you that I think it is.

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I wouldn't seek out that position specifically because there are only a handful of animal rights attorneys in the United States.

Once again, Sidney, your query clearly implied interest in working for an animal rights firm. I'm not the only user here who gathered that impression. I've tried to address your query. So have other users.

Continued, below....

Continued....

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: DLP, I'm going to be totally honest with you though...you seem to discourage EVERYONE who comes here from becoming a paralegal and it seems like you do this because you are currently unemployed in the industry. It's like the saying "misery loves company." You remind me of that quote so much. I don't mean that disrespectfully, but I lurked for a long time and read your posts before ever responding and truly, you are so discouraging to anyone who seeks advice on this matter.

That's a red herring, Sidney. But then why did you interrupt this discussion about the value of going to paralegal school to ask ME, specifically, the following question:

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: DLP, I have been reading your posts for a while. Is being a paralegal REALLY as bad as you say?

If you've been reading my posts and lurking, and clearly had an inkling of how I would respond, why did you feel the need to ask? Not only that, Sidney, you seemed to agree with my responses:

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I just wish the field sounded more encouraging because I think it sounds like it has the potential to be a good career. However, being treated horribly be lawyers would really be upsetting to me...and unhealthy. I can't imagine going through that kind of stress on a daily basis. I think they would be very intimidating people.

So now I am unsure of your objective in posting, Sidney. To get real advice or some sort of validation. Moreover, if your grandfather and uncle were attorneys, it seems as if you might know something about the legal industry and working in it already.

Continued, below....

Continued...

Finally, Sidney, I don't appreciate your misrepresenting my responses to others' posts about paralegaling. I do not discourage EVERYONE from being a paralegal. In fact, I encourage those users who want to be paralegals to be sure to collect the best qualifications possible so they will be competitive in a competitive industry.

I'm currently thinking about attending kaplan career institute In nashville for paralegal program. Does anyone know if this is a good school? I'm medical assistant right now, is the paralegal pay better than ma pay?

Hard question to answer without knowing medical assistant pay. At least around here, entry paralegals start at $28K-$34K, on the average, give or take. Paralegals with three to five years experience can earn $40K-$45K. Five year-plus paralegals can earn $48K-$55K. I am sure paralegals work far more hours and longer days, including weekends and holidays, sometimes, than medical assistants.

I checked up on Kaplan Career Institute for you. The school offers American Bar Association-approved A.A.S. and certificate programs. One can never go wrong by earning an ABA paralegal certificate. An ABA certificate is the high paralegal certificate obtainable. Along with a paralegal certificate, firms in your area may also require or want a C.L.A., R.P. or similar credential.

I cannot determine if a federal Department of Education-recognized accrediting body accredits the school. A degree earned from a non-accredited college is worth very little.

Finally, if you feel doctors are difficult, demanding people, you've experienced nothing until you work for attorneys. Also, consider that entry paralegal jobs are rare and hard to get, and many firms have laid off excellent, experienced people. You will likely face stiff competition from these people, other entry paralegals and even laid-off associates for the few available paralegal jobs.

thanks for your input. I don't mind working with demanding professionals. I have been working with doctors for 5 years and I have learned to deal with those type of people. But you did have a point, finding a job maybe more difficult as a paralegal. On the other hand medical assistant jobs are everywhere. I'm just getting tired of the medical field. Law is something that interests me but I don't want to waste time and money, I want to make sure whatever I choose is a good investment. So thanks for the feedback...

Cashville, tn said: I'm just getting tired of the medical field. Law is something that interests me......

Law can be interesting, but, believe me, the long hours, stress, deadlines and contention will burn you out big time. Also, believe me, lawyers, generally, are caustic - probably more so than doctors.

How 'bout PA, surgery tech, etc. to better yourself?

This thread reminds me of a medical billing forum I once joined when I was seeking information on the ins and outs of the business. All the 'veterans' were rude to newcomers and basically posted crap for each other to read. If you're in the business already, why even bother? What do you get out of it-- a chance to roll your eyes at all the idealistic newbies? How cynical.

Sidney, I sympathize with you; seek info elsewhere.

amygdala in Glendale, Arizona said: This thread reminds me of a medical billing forum I once joined when I was seeking information on the ins and outs of the business. All the 'veterans' were rude to newcomers and basically posted crap for each other to read. If you're in the business already, why even bother? What do you get out of it-- a chance to roll your eyes at all the idealistic newbies?

No, not at all. Merely a chance to educate newbies in the reality of the legal industry.

In this situation, "Sidney" asked me if paralegal is really as bad as I have written in other posts. I answered that I feel it is. I provided examples. Although he knew or should have known how I might answer, he apparently did not like my answer when he read it:

sidney vallon in Nashville, Tennessee said: I came here to get the truth. DLP, I'm going to be totally honest with you though...you seem to discourage EVERYONE who comes here from becoming a paralegal.....I lurked for a long time and read your posts before ever responding and truly, you are so discouraging to anyone who seeks advice on this matter......

Well....he asked.

Finally, this has been civil, direct, straightforward, honest and, yes, at times, blunt. But that's what one will experience in law. Now, Amy, how can we help you?