The Parelegal Job Market Sucks?

I'm a parelegal student at a community college and have been considering switching to a network administration program. I am already aware that many people consider the paralegal career a lousy one and the purpose of this thread is not to discuss that. All I want to know is how bad the job market for entry-level paralegals really is. Am I correct in understanding that the legal profession currently suffers from an excess of qualified candidates, that projections regarding the growth of this field have turned out to be wrong, that things are not likely to get any better as the economy decends into the am prepared to take the crap that comes with being a paralegal, but if there are no jobs, then there are no jobs....

Sorry, the board distorted my post. That should read: "I am prepared to take the crap that comes with being a parelegal..."

I'm a guy in my 20s, if it matters.

If you look through all the legal secretary and paralegal forums, you see almost in all states, jobs are scarce. Look on Indeed and look on craigslist, and you will see many jobs posted - mostly by recruiters. Unfortunately, almost all of those ads are fake. Really, how well you do depends on where you live. A few hours ago I posted the unemployment rate for all the states - see where your state fits in.

Almost every single one of us on here, with any comment about the legal field - have been in the legal field for many years; some of have Bachelor's Degrees, paralegal degrees; and a few have jobs but are worried about getting dumped, a few have jobs they don't like, and most of us do not have a job.

Myself, twenty years ago I left court reporting (even though I had RPR status) for the stability AND SECURITY of a legal position. I have pulled out my Stenograph Machine, inked the spool, changed the ribbon, stared at it, and started writing. I ordered a new speed tape to practice. I am practicing in front of court TV. To be a court reporter now, I need to buy new computerized equipment (expensive). But I think I have a much better chance of getting a court reporter position than a legal position. Right now, being a court reporter feels like security.

Clive Andrews in Gig Harbor, Washington said: I'm a parelegal student at a community college and have been considering switching to a network administration program....Am I correct in understanding that the legal profession currently suffers from an excess of qualified candidates, that projections regarding the growth of this field have turned out to be wrong, that things are not likely to get any better as the economy decends....

I'd say that's about the size of it.

Law is very hard to break into. Schools have turned out legions of new paralegals who swallowed the stories about paralegal being a growth profession, etc., ad nauseam. Perhaps it was a growth profession fifteen years ago, when I got started. It certainly isn't now. At least around here, plenty of excellent, well qualified paralegals along with entry paralegals vie for very few jobs. That's been true for years. It's worse now.

Clive Andrews said: I am prepared to take the crap that comes with being a paralegal....

A few of thoughts:

1) Why SHOULD you have to take crap from lawyers or any boss, for that matter. One word doesn't exist in lawyers' lexicons: respect.

2) Don't say you're prepared to take the crap that comes with being a paralegal until you learn of the crap. It's easy to say you're willing to take the crap when you are in school, presumably enthusiastic (!?) about becoming a paralegal and are on the outside looking in. The stories you've read or should read on these fora about legal industry crap are real. Legal professionals have actually experienced what you've read.

3) If you're someone who cannot accept direction, resists authority figures or simply doesn't like being told what to do, stay out of law. Lawyers don't like resistive subordinates. It's their way or the highway.

If I were you, I'd go for network administration. You'll go further with the training and certifications you earn that with a paralegal certificate.

A few thoughts:

1) Why SHOULD you take crap from lawyers or any boss, for that matter. One word doesn't exist in lawyers' lexicons: respect.

2) Don't say you're prepared to take the crap that comes with being a paralegal until you learn of the crap. It's easy to say you're willing to take the crap when you are in school, presumably enthusiastic (!?) about becoming a paralegal and are on the outside looking in. The stories you've read or should read on these fora about legal industry crap are real. Legal professionals have actually experienced what you've read.

3) If you're someone who cannot accept what little direction lawyers provide, resists authority figures or simply doesn't like being told what to do, stay out of law. Lawyers don't like resistive subordinates. It's their way or the highway.

If I were you, I'd go for network administration. You'll go further with the training and certifications you earn than you will with a paralegal certificate.

(amended/typos corrected)

Your entry level job will more than likely be low paying and not a paralegal position, but a file clerk, receptionist, secretary type position and may or may not have benefits. There are exceptions and I was one. I went straight into a paralegal job, but the vast majority of paralegal graduates get no job or some low paying thing.

Once you are in the field though, you should be able to stay in it, if you are any good, and work your way up. The legal community is small even in the biggest cities, so you don't want to burn bridges. These attorneys talk to each other and know each other from law school, case work, continued legal eduction events, bench bar conferences, etc. and a quick phone call can ruin any chances of you getting a job if you have burned a bridge.

I would probably go into another field. In this state, we have attorneys applying to be paralegals there aren't enough attorney gigs. That's another issue.

Oh, regarding the fact you are male - my last law firm loved to have male paralegals and they had several. They were harder workers than the females, sad to say. All were single no kids, one was also a licensed private investigator so he could do additional things, another went and graduated from law school but then realized he didn't want to be a lawyer and he became a paralegal instead and the 3rd one quit and went to law school after being a paralegal. The guys make more money than the females, too. Oh, there was a 4th male paralegal, but he married and had a baby on the way, so he had to make more money to support the family, so he changed careers.

My current firm does not have a male paralegal currently, but has had one in the past. I would say there is no prejudice towards males at all, at least around here. I even know a male legal secretary who was promoted from the mail room. He only has a high school education.

Paralegal in Dallas, Texas said: Your entry level job will more than likely be low paying and not a paralegal position, but a file clerk, receptionist, secretary type position and may or may not have benefits. There are exceptions and I was one.

Me, too. I was hired as a paralegal in my first firm.

Paralegal in Dallas, Texas said: I would probably go into another field. In this state, we have attorneys applying to be paralegals. There aren't enough attorney gigs.

I've seen some JD types applying to be paralegals. One of my firms hired attorneys to be paralegals. They didn't cut it and were gone within weeks.

Clive Andrews in Gig Harbor, Washington said: I'm a parelegal student at a community college and have been considering switching to a network administration program. I am already aware that many people consider the paralegal career a lousy one and the purpose of this thread is not to discuss that. All I want to know is how bad the job market for entry-level paralegals really is. Am I correct in understanding that the legal profession currently suffers from an excess of qualified candidates, that projections regarding the growth of this field have turned out to be wrong, that things are not likely to get any better as the economy decends into the am prepared to take the crap that comes with being a paralegal, but if there are no jobs, then there are no jobs....

Being a Paralegal is not a lousy profession. I have been a systems specialist for 15 years before training to become a Paralegal. I make over 50K and is quite happy in my decision. It depends on you and your abilities and what type of firm you work for. Try finding work in a small well established firm where you don't have to work overtime and your boss treats you with respect. If you are a Paralegal and work with many paralegals in a large firm, its hard to be noticed. I stand out because I'm well skilled in varous areas that make being a Paralegal a breeze! Having different skills as well as paralegal skills can open many doors for you.

KD in New York, New York said: Being a Paralegal is not a lousy profession.

No,it isn't. Paralegal, in and of itself, is not a lousy profession. But paralegals primarily work in law and for lawyers. Law is a lousy industry and lawyers are lousy to work for.

Among other things, law is laden with stress, unreasonable hours and lack of appreciation for exceeding expectations.

KD in New York, New York said: Try finding work in a small well established firm where you don't have to work overtime **and your boss treats you with respect.**(emphasis added)

Good luck. Regarding the first part, firms expect paralegals to put in at least some overtime, particularly those firms in which paralegals bill.

Emergencies and rushes are part of the game in a few specialties; expect last-minute overtime in them. Don't look for thanks for staying late or coming in on weekends or holidays, either.

KD in New York, New York said: I stand out because I'm well skilled in various areas that make being a Paralegal a breeze!

Who are you trying to kid?? Paralegal work is never a breeze, especially if one has a major workload.

Some firms simply don't have or will not hire enough help. Expect to be swamped in those shops. Superior abilities don't help much with coping with major overwork.

To compare law with football, attorneys are law's quarterbacks. They get all the glory and recognition. Paralegals are law's linebackers and safeties. Paralegals are the seek-and-destroy people of the legal industry. They get the job done. Paralegals plug holes. They stop and avert big plays and similar disasters, such as missed deadlines and blown Statutes. However, if mistakes are made, even if attorneys caused them, paralegals will be blamed for them.

As with linebackers and safeties, paralegals work as hard or harder than attorneys, but don't receive the recognition and none of the glory. They deserve better.

Please be advised that no matter what profession you choose, you will work your butt off! For example "people that work in McDonald's work harder than Paralegals!" You have to work for yourself in order to get the credit for everything. Do not let people discourage you from being what ever it is that you want to be. I am a Paralegal and a good one. I don't work overtime and I get paid well. And my bosses respect me because I demand RESPECT no matter who I work for.!!

KD in New York, New York said: You have to work for yourself in order to get the credit for everything.

You miss the point. You can work as hard as hell, but don't expect credit to accrue for your hard work. If anything, you will have more and more work dumped on you. You will work harder and harder with lesser and lesser thanks. I know.

KD in New York, New York said: Do not let people discourage you from being what ever it is that you want to be....

They need to hear the truth.

KD in New York, New York said: I am a Paralegal and a good one. I don't work overtime and I get paid well.

You are an exception to not working overtime. And don't mislead people by saying you've never worked overtime. No one will buy it.

KD in New York, New York said: And my bosses respect me because I demand RESPECT no matter who I work for.!!

Anyone can "demand" respect. Whether respect is given is another matter. Even if you rightfully earn respect, it doesn't follow that you'll get it.

What would you do if your demands were not met? Walk out? Walking out from a job is not as easy as you may think, especially if you have responsibilities.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: You miss the point. You can work as hard as hell, but don't expect credit to accrue for your hard work. If anything, you will have more and more work dumped on you. You will work harder and harder with lesser and lesser thanks. I know. They need to hear the truth. You are an exception to not working overtime. And don't mislead people by saying you've never worked overtime. No one will buy it. Anyone can "demand" respect. Whether respect is given is another matter. Even if you rightfully earn respect, it doesn't follow that you'll get it.

What would you do if your demands were not met? Walk out? Walking out from a job is not as easy as you may think, especially if you have responsibilities.

When I say I demand Respect, I mean just that. No boss can speak to me in way that do not want me to respond to them. I will not walk out but I will respond in the same tone letting one know I am not having it. You can fire me, no problem. I am a human being first and an employee second. Alaways remember that and you too will be respected! And I don't work overtime! My rule! eight hours is enough of work, I have a life besides WORK. I am not trying to be special but you get what you except out here!

KD in New York, New York said: When I say I demand Respect, I mean just that. No boss can speak to me in way that do not want me to respond to them.

KD in New York, New York said: I am not trying to be special but you get what you [except] out here!

The word you mean is "expect." With all due "respect," KD, you come off here as believing you are "special."

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but you are no more special than the next guy. Your attitude and unrealistic expectations of respect would never cut it in law firms for which I've worked and probably for most others as well.

KD in New York, New York said: I will not walk out but I will respond in the same tone letting one know I am not having it. You can fire me, no problem. I am a human being first and an employee second. [Alaways] remember that and you too will be respected! And I don't work overtime!

Of course you don't, KD.

You may be "an employee, second," but that won't pay the bills.

KD in New York, New York said: My rule! eight hours is enough of work, I have a life besides WORK.

I don't disagree, especially considering I worked primarily ten hour days for most of the years I worked in law. But I submit that most paralegals, if not the vast majority of them, work many long and thankless days, and weekends and holidays. Many of them, as I was, are salaried and aren't paid overtime or comp time for it.

I also submit your attitude about overtime, KD, won't cut it in most law firms. Consider yourself lucky to be where you are. I would have been rightfully booted out the door on my ass were I to refuse any request to stay late, get something out the door, or otherwise help with work after hours, before hours, or on weekends.

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I'm actually happy for you, KD. Going by what you have written, you have a good job that belies your attitude. The truth is, folks, KD is an exception. Law firms are more closely what I and others here have described. I won't go far as to say all law firms are sweatshops, but I do stand by my comments about unreasonable hours, unreasonable attorney demands and expectations, stress, difficult personalities, and, last but not least, lack of **respect.**

I agree with KD, and wrote to the OP above, that no one should put up with disrespect. But don't go around demanding respect if you opt for law, and particularly from lawyers. You'll be fortunate if they give you an occasional kind word.

I agree with KD, and wrote to the OP above, that no one should put up with disrespect. But don't go around preening and prancing around demanding respect if you opt for law, and particularly from lawyers. You'll be fortunate if they give you an occasional kind word.

(amended)

More and more paralegals are getting overtime pay for working over 40 hours and firms HATE to pay overtime, so I can believe it when I talk to a paralegal who doesn't work overtime. If I work over 40 I have to get attorney approval and the reason I have OT on my timesheet better be that we were in trial that week. That's the only reason they accept. I got to leave early last Friday because I hit 40 hours at 4:00pm.

I guess the dept of labor considered paralegals non-exempt now??

Paralegal in Dallas, Texas said: More and more paralegals are getting overtime pay for working over 40 hours and firms HATE to pay overtime, so I can believe it when I talk to a paralegal who doesn't work overtime....

As Paul Harvey would have said, that's the rest of the story. But KD makes it sound that she REFUSES to work overtime. Big and highly misleading difference between timing out and not being allowed to work overtime v. refusing to work overtime.

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Paralegal in Dallas, Texas said: I guess the dept of labor considered paralegals non-exempt now??

Apparently.

Sometime around 2004 the Labor Department determined paralegals are non-exempt employees:

Department of Labor said: The Department received a number of comments from paralegals and legal assistants expressing concern that they would be classified as exempt under the proposed regulations. Other commenters urge the Department to declare that paralegals are exempt learned professionals. However, none of these commenters provided any information to demonstrate that the educational requirement for paralegals is greater than a two-year associate degree from a community college or equivalent institution. Although many paralegals possess a Bachelor's degree, there is no evidence in the record that a four-year specialized paralegal degree is a standard prerequisite for entry into the occupation. Because comments revealed some confusion regarding paralegals, ***the final rule contains new language in section 541.301(e)(7) providing that paralegals generally do not qualify as exempt learned professionals.*** The final rule, however, also states that the learned professional exemption is available for paralegals who possess advanced specialized degrees in other professional fields and apply advanced knowledge in that field in the performance of their duties. For example, if a law firm hires an engineer as a paralegal to provide expert advice on product liability cases or to assist on patent matters, that engineer would qualify for exemption.

69 FR 22,154-55 (2004) (emphasis added)

www.abanet.org/legalservices/paralegals/downloads/DOL.pdf

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Too late to help me in my first firm. Had I tried for overtime in my next firm, World War III would have started, guaranteed, and I would have lost, guaranteed.

Here again, not being paid overtime is one thing (and what do you about being sent home without being allowed to finish your work). Allegedly refusing to work overtime is quite another. I guess anyone can refuse to work overtime, even if unpaid, at peril of losing one's job.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Continued...

Too late to help me in my first firm. Had I tried for overtime in my next firm, World War III would have started, guaranteed, and I would have lost, guaranteed.

Here again, not being paid overtime is one thing (and what do you about being sent home without being allowed to finish your work). Allegedly refusing to work overtime is quite another. I guess anyone can refuse to work overtime, even if unpaid, at peril of losing one's job.

Thank goodness that I am an exception to the way I would allow someone to treat me in a job. If you go out and work for someone it's important to have confidence in yourself that way you don't have to take crap from anyone which I have been practicing all of my working years. I have put a few employers in there place and let them know abuse won't be tolerated from me. Either I'm an employee or a slave with no rights and I always choose the first. I am a human being first as I said before. You have to know how to handle situations in a professional manner by letting the other person know that they can not talk to you anyway they feel like it. Besides with my background and knowledge I am willing to sit on my ass and collect unemployment rather than be treated like an idiot. I can tell that must of you that are surprised that I am that way and that I don't work overtime must be young with little proud about yourself. Once you know who you are and what you want out of life, you won't except crap from any employer. Just the way I found this job, I can find another. Not every employer is an ass****, so take proud in yourself because life is short and you don't need to go to work and be treated without respect. For those of you that allow your boss to talk to you any kind of way deserves it! Good luck in your Paralegal profession and remember one thing YOU CAN SUE YOUR BOSS FOR MENTAL ABUSE!!! So be MEN and Women!!! Peace!!!!

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: As Paul Harvey would have said, that's the rest of the story. But KD makes it sound that she REFUSES to work overtime. Big and highly misleading difference between timing out and not being allowed to work overtime v. refusing to work overtime.

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As I said, working overtime is a choice. If you are a valuable good worker, you employer won't want to lose you. So not working overtime is excepted because they do not want me to leave!!!

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said:

Me, too. I was hired as a paralegal in my first firm. ...

My first job offer was at a BIg Firm in Philadelaphia as a LEGAL SECREARY at $32K- I declined because I knew my typing speed would screw it up- eventually. Yeah, I had to pass a 70 WPM test- I did not- still offered the job. The Partner wanted me so bad - he told HR I would get faster while on the job. I KNEW I WOULD NOT.

The job was 50% dictaphone and 50% administrative.- give or take.

KD in New York, New York said: Thank goodness that I am an exception...

...and that you are, KD....

KD said: ...to the way I would allow someone to treat me in a job. If you go out and work for someone it's important to have confidence in yourself. [T]hat way you don't have to take crap from anyone which I have been practicing all of my working years. I have put a few employers in [there] place and let them know abuse won't be tolerated from me. Either I'm an employee or a slave with no rights and I always choose the first.

Once again, KD, and again with all due respect, you come off as a prima donna and with a bad attitude.

KD said: Besides with my background and knowledge I am willing to sit on my ass and collect unemployment rather than be treated like an idiot.

Beggars can't always be choosers, KD. From your comments, one surmises your employment history has been less than steady because you work either your way or not at all. Of course, employers should treat employees with respect, but who would want someone with your attitude working for them? I can hear in my mind how you would lash out at a boss if you are looked at even slightly crosswise.

Unemployment runs for 26 weeks max. I suspect you would need every one of those weeks to find work with your attitude. What would you do after it runs out? Apply for bailout money?

KD said: I can tell that must of you that are surprised that I am that way and that I don't work overtime must be young with little proud about yourself.

People like you make me wonder how they ever held a job, KD. Actually, KD, I'm probably much older than you. I'm nearly 58. Until recently and except for a year to go to school, after graduating from college I worked more or less continuously for 33 years in three industries. So I know a little about what it takes to hold a job.

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KD said: remember one thing YOU CAN SUE YOUR BOSS FOR MENTAL ABUSE!!!

You sound like you know about suing bosses, KD.

That is horrible advice, which you should know better than to give. Just because one sues doesn't mean one wins.

KD said: As I said, working overtime is a choice. If you are a valuable good worker, you employer won't want to lose you.

Bullshiit. Contrary to your clearly misguided belief, KD, no employee is indispensable. Anyone can be replaced - even you, KD. So not working overtime is excepted because they do not want me to leave!!!Or, because of your attitude, they've had enough of you after eight hours.

Very interesting comments from this individual.

Continued...

KD said: remember one thing YOU CAN SUE YOUR BOSS FOR MENTAL ABUSE!!!

You sound like you know about suing bosses, KD.

That is horrible advice, which you should know better than to give. Just because one sues doesn't mean one wins.

KD said: As I said, working overtime is a choice. If you are a valuable good worker, you employer won't want to lose you.

Bullshiit. Contrary to your clearly misguided belief, KD, no employee is indispensable. Anyone can be replaced - even you, KD. I repeat - anyone.

KD said: So not working overtime is excepted because they do not want me to leave!!!

Or, because of your attitude, they've had enough of you after eight hours.

Very interesting comments from this individual.

KD in New York, New York said: As I said, working overtime is a choice.

Sure. You have the choice of working or not working overtime. Work overtime, as requested, and you will keep your job and maybe earn points for being a cooperative employee.

Don't work overtime enough times and you risk of termination. Refusing to work overtime is good cause for termination. In Colorado, you can be denied UIB if it is found you caused your termination.

KD in New York, New York said: As I said, working overtime is a choice.

Sure. You have the choice of working or not working overtime. Work overtime, as requested, and you will keep your job and maybe earn points for being a cooperative employee.

Don't work overtime enough times and you risk termination. Refusing to work overtime is good cause for termination. In Colorado, you can be denied UIB if it is found you caused your termination.

I recommend that you go to abovethelaw.com - they are covering a lot of the layoffs in law firms across the country. There is an article dated March 2, 2009 called "Support Staff Taking It On The Chin" on staff layoffs -- if you want a glimpse into what many (not all) associates feel about support staff, read the comments that follow the article - this will give it to you. For those who have worked in law it will be no surprise how much vitriol associates have towards "support staff" - although it seems aimed more at secretaries. I am not saying this should discourage you. I have worked in the legal field for over 30 years as a paralegal, and have worked with both good and bad attorneys (and both good and bad support staff). To me, in the last 5 years especially, there seems to be a tremendous lack of respect for anyone in the law office who is not an attorney. Good luck whatever you decide.

Working Paralegal in Austin, Texas said: To me, in the last 5 years especially, there seems to be a tremendous lack of respect for anyone in the law office who is not an attorney....

I'll second that! But it doesn't follow one should rebut disrespect with further disrespect - though, believe me, I would have loved to at times. As a practical matter, I would have lost.

Thanx for your post about the article.

KD in New York, New York said:

Being a Paralegal.... I make over 50K and is quite happy in my decision. It depends on you and your abilities and what type of firm you work for. Try finding work in a small well established firm where you don't have to work overtime and your boss treats you with respect.....

Having worked in large and small (4-15 attorneys)- if you find a small firm that has all the benefits, including a matching saving plan- I would work there anytime over the "prestige name" of a large firm....REASON- over all, it is easier to function in small firm due to the size and rules- and I myself, never had overtime- always straight hours- period- as a Paralegal.

50K- HUM- what area of law do you work in KD? If I may ask. THEN again, you are in NYC with pay being higher- (say $60-70k if in big firm).

I would say that your $50K in NYC (small firm) translates to $35-$40 in other large cities. My experience being in Philadelphia and Miami- and Wilmington, DE ( a small town with a large legal commmunity)

Heck, our gal Dee Dee in Wilmington, DE was making $50k at BIG firm - she is a "legal secretary" in the patent area of law. - with 10 years of experience.

KD in New York, New York said:

Having different skills as well as paralegal skills can open many doors for you.

B.S. Attorneys only care about your work experience in the legal environment.

KD in New York, New York said:

And my bosses respect me because I demand RESPECT no matter who I work for.!!

DLP- Sounds like another Dee Dee in Wilmington, DE.

KD in New York, New York said:

When I say I demand Respect, I mean just that. No boss can speak to me in way that do not want me to respond to them. I will not walk out but I will respond in the same tone letting one know I am not having it. You can fire me, no problem. I am a human being first and an employee second...

KD - you are a trip- like an LSD trip, gone crazy.

To answer your question, I've never sued an employer, didn't have to. Demanded RESPECT as I will until retirement. I have worked for over 30 years as a professional and always have a good attitude. I realize that I did not know my employer before I started working for him so that tells me that I don't actually need him!! I need a JOB of course but I don't need any JOB. You may say what you like but as I near retirement, I will teach my children that their dignity and respect comes first, everything else will fall into place as it did and will continue to do for me. I guess its okay to treat you like crap as long as you keep your job. So SAD!!!

Paralegal in Dallas, Texas said:

I guess the dept of labor considered paralegals non-exempt now??

In the years of say 94 through 98,- in Philadelphia- paralegals did not get paid overtime. Period. If they had billable hours- had to work a smany hours as it takes to meet the billables- that is why I never took billable hour jobs.

GEEZ- the "excemption" must have changed by law.

KD in New York, New York said: ......

, so take proud in yourself because life is short and you don't need to go to work and be treated without respect....

KD- the word you are looking for is "PRIDE", not proud in yourself.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I'll second that! But it doesn't follow one should rebut disrespect with further disrespect - though, believe me, I would have loved to at times. As a practical matter, I would have lost.

Thanx for your post about the article.

I in no way would ever recommend showing disrespect to anyone at all. That is not professional behavior and I choose to be as respectful as I can to everyone regardless of the behavior being exhibited to me. I was actually responding to the original poster's question. I simply want hopeful, young people who want to join a law firm in any capacity to understand the culture that exists there. I am not trying to discourage anyone from becoming a paralegal or legal secretary. But the comments from attorneys that follow the article should at least be a warning of what you might encounter.

KD in New York, New York said: I make over 50K and is quite happy in my decision....

$50K. That pay is par for a five-year paralegal here, but is low for New York City. According to Indeed's salary survey, $66K is average paralegal pay in NYC. I'm certainly impressed.

www.indeed.com/salary?q1=paralegal&l1=new+york%2C+new+york

KD in New York, New York said: To answer your question, I've never sued an employer, didn't have to.

....though you're ready to pull the trigger at any time, aren't you, KD? Is that what you teach your children?

KD in New York, New York said: Demanded RESPECT as I will until retirement. I have worked for over 30 years as a professional and always have a good attitude. I realize that I did not know my employer before I started working for him so that tells me that I don't actually need him!! I need a JOB of course but I don't need any JOB. You may say what you like but as I near retirement, I will teach my children that their dignity and respect comes first, everything else will fall into place as it did and will continue to do for me. I guess its okay to treat you like crap as long as you keep your job. So SAD!!!

I agree with you in theory, KD. As a practical matter, you are not credible.

Please don't teach your children disrespect and hostility for employers, KD. It doesn't cut it. Unless, of course, you want to support your children for the rest of their lives.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: $50K. That pay is par for a five-year paralegal here, but is low for New York City. According to Indeed's salary survey, $66K is average paralegal pay in NYC. I'm certainly impressed.

www.indeed.com/salary?q1=paralegal&l1=new+york%2C+new+york

....though you're ready to pull the trigger at any time, aren't you, KD? Is that what you teach your children? I agree with you in theory, KD. As a practical matter, you are not credible.

Please don't teach your children disrespect and hostility for employers, KD. It doesn't cut it. Unless, of course, you want to support your children for the rest of their lives.

I didn't say I will teach my children disrespect. I said I will teach how to make sure they get respect in the workpalce and any where else they shall travel!!! Don't get confused as to what I'm am saying!!! Employers, Laywers, Judges, Police officers ... who cares. Respect me as I will respect you. I will not have it any other way.!!!

KD in New York, New York said: I didn't say I will teach my children disrespect. I said I will teach how to make sure they get respect in the [workpalce] and any where else they shall travel!!! Don't get confused as to what I'm am saying!!! Employers, [Laywers], Judges, Police officers ... who cares. Respect me as I will respect you. I will not have it any other way.!!!

I'm not confused in the least about what you are saying, KD, though you have become increasingly defensive about your 'tude. Speaking of 'tude, yours is misguided in terms of living in the real world. You are no different or any more special than anyone else.

KD in New York, New York said: I didn't say I will teach my children disrespect. I said I will teach how to make sure they get respect in the workpalce and any where else they shall travel!!! Don't get confused as to what I'm am saying!!! Employers, Laywers, Judges, Police officers ... who cares. Respect me as I will respect you. I will not have it any other way.!!!

Perhaps the most important factor to understand about respect is that, in most cases, it is not given automatically by others, but it must be earned. So just because you demand it, does not mean you will get it. Perhaps teaching your children how to EARN respect is what you meant?

Working Paralegal in Austin, Texas said: Perhaps the most important factor to understand about respect is that, in most cases, it is not given automatically by others, but it must be earned. So just because you demand it, does not mean you will get it. Perhaps teaching your children how to EARN respect is what you meant?

...and, even then, no assurances you will get it. While respect may accrue to a person, it may never be paid.

I read the "Support Staff Taking It On The Chin" article, Austin. Good blog. I think it's been true for some time that lawyers, especially the younger ones, have become more technologically savvy and have less work to give to support staff. Food for thought for anyone considering a nonlawyer career.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: ...and, even then, no assurances you will get it. While respect may accrue to a person, it may never be paid.

I read the "Support Staff Taking It On The Chin" article, Austin. Good blog. I think it's been true for some time that lawyers, especially the younger ones, have become more technologically savvy and have less work to give to support staff. Food for thought for anyone considering a nonlawyer career.

I agree with you DLP. Your posts are the most interesting and insightful I have read. Thank you for sharing your experiences. It's going to be a new world out there in law firms. I hope for the best for all of you still in it.

Working Paralegal in Austin, Texas said: Your posts are the most interesting and insightful I have read. Thank you for sharing your experiences. It's going to be a new world out there in law firms. I hope for the best for all of you still in it.

And for those who are even considering the legal industry, don't. All industries have tough bosses, but I submit lawyers are in a class by themselves. I've had my fill of working for lawyers.

Thanx for your kind comments, Austin. Your comments are great! Keep posting!

Having been employed as a paralegal now since the 1980's I have advice for all looking into that profession. When I first went into the field with my BA degree and certificate I was very much in demand. It was a new field and I thought I would test it before attending law school. I have worked in many areas of law and was given creditbilty and a feeling of professional status. Recently, like so many legal professionals, I was just laid off. I will now try to re-invent myself and do something else. The reason: the field is saturated with paralegals, many of whom are ex-secretaries looking for a change, people with only associate degrees and believe it or not, some with only a high school diploma. Yes...you do not really need all that schooling to do this.....The field is not regulated. Requirements vary depending on the place of employment. Some paralegals, like myself, are knowledgable and true professionals. Others, I am afraid, are glorified secretaries or office helpers. That is not the way it used to be. There is no discretion when hiring paralegals anymore. I would not reccomend it. It is a dead end job for most. There are few truly professional jobs for paralegals. If you want to be a secretary masquerading as a paralegal then this would be for you. AND for all you aspiring attorneys out there, lawyers are a dime a dozen and unless you go to a top tier school it will take you a hundred years to pay off loans for law school....if you can land a job. Find another field. The respected field of law is so full of really unqualified practicing attorneys (you can get an online degree these days) it will not bring you the social status and income you think that it will. At least, not in the foreseeable future!

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: In the years of say 94 through 98,- in Philadelphia- paralegals did not get paid overtime. Period.

Nor was I during those years but for one time. I was denied the next time I applied for OT.

I 'spose I could have made a deal out of it, but I didn't. After all, if she paid it once she has created precedent and should pay it again. I recall an ex-employee who applied to the Wage & Hour Board for OT, and failed. It wasn't worth it and I didn't have documentation to prove it.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: GEEZ- the "exemption" must have changed by law.

Apparently so. You remember the Federal Register from legal research class, don't you, Cindy? As I recall, after something's published in the FR as a final rulemaking and thence in the CFR, it is regulatory, and, thus, is law.

I didn't know the DOL designated paralegals as non-exempt employees pursuant to the FR until recently. But, again, had I known and tried for it at the time I would have started a world war. It wasn't worth the risk.

Proving OT is tough. Aside from proving OT hours worked, I think the bigger problem is proving the employer authorized OT. Just because you stayed late doesn't mean you were authorized OT pay.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: Sounds like another Dee Dee in Wilmington, DE.

It does!

Next will be her fashion "trendsetter" postings.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: It does!

Next will be her fashion "trendsetter" postings.

LOL! Respect me and my designer high heels.