Trashing the Profession

This is supposed to be a Paralegal Jobs Forum, but more and more it sounds like a place to trash the profession, or complain about previous employers. It is such a turn off, that in actuality it turned me off from pursuing a certificate to become a paralegal. I probably should have listened to an educator and not paid attention to most of what has been written here.

Lynn in in Manhattan Beach, California said: This is supposed to be a Paralegal Jobs Forum, but more and more it sounds like a place to trash the profession, or complain about previous employers. It is such a turn off, that in actuality it turned me off from pursuing a certificate to become a paralegal. I probably should have listened to an educator and not paid attention to most of what has been written here.

The profession is a tough one. Lots of pitfall. And there are good stories. A paralegal associate friend got her college degree, then paralegal certificate, then got a job a Paralegal job at SKadden Arps, a NY based firm that pays NY wages. this was in Delaware. She started mid twenties of age, worked there for 10 years. Around age 32 she met and married an attorney, with old money. After her 10 years she no longer works, had one child and is happy and has the life of abundance and money.

Lynn in in Manhattan Beach, California said: This is supposed to be a Paralegal Jobs Forum, but more and more it sounds like a place to trash the profession, or complain about previous employers. It is such a turn off, that in actuality it turned me off from pursuing a certificate to become a paralegal. I probably should have listened to an educator and not paid attention to most of what has been written here.

The below story is hard to find in today's economy, because the times have changed, the paralegal market is glutted, and the economy is bad, bad, bad.

Lynn: There are a lot of people very satisfied with the legal field. The fact is, the older you get, the less desirable you will be. A 30 year old is more likely to get hired than a 50 year old. I have three college degrees, one court reporting, one BS in Business (Management) and my AA degree in paralegal. I do not have a job.

I would not give up my experience in the legal field for anything!!! But the competition you will deal with, and the personalities, makes the legal field tough. What will make or break you is the attorney you work for. cont

cont
I would suggest court reporting. It costs money to be a reporter. IT'S TOUGH TO LEARN - you can either get it, or you can't. There are a lot of dropouts.

If I had normal hearing I would go back to court reporting. It's a field where there is something different every day. Every deposition is different. The demand for court reporters is growing!!!! When I dropped out, 20 years ago, there were too many.

What makes court reporting better than a legal assistant is you don't have to deal with any crap. If you're 50 years old, or 60 years old, you will still be in demand. A 50 year old court reporter has a big advantage over a 25 year old court reporter when it comes to skills and experience.

cont

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Another thing to consider is where you live. Do you have a strong legal industry? The bigger the city, the more the opportunity.

You don't need a degree to be a legal assistant. I got my paralegal degree after I had been working 20 years - and it has been a waste of money.

If you want to work in the legal field, then go find a job right now (if you can find one). Start out as a legal secretary - and see what you think. A lot of paralegals start out as legal secretaries. A lot of paralegals have no formal schooling.

Don't listen to us. Just don't spend a lot of money for fancy training and then regret it.

Lynn in in Manhattan Beach, California said: This is supposed to be a Paralegal Jobs Forum, but more and more it sounds like a place to trash the profession, or complain about previous employers. It is such a turn off, that in actuality it turned me off from pursuing a certificate to become a paralegal. I probably should have listened to an educator and not paid attention to most of what has been written here.

Lynn, don't listen to what people are writing on the forum. If you want to do it go ahead, your luck may turn out different.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: The below story is hard to find in today's economy, because the times have changed, the paralegal market is glutted, and the economy is bad, bad, bad.

LYNN: THE MARKET IS GUTTED AND THE ECONOMY IS BAD. THIS IS A FACT. If you are young, fresh and pretty, that's the first impression you give to an AH attorney when you come for an interview - and you have a good likelihood of getting hired.

Mary inTampa in Tampa, Florida said:

If you want to work in the legal field, then go find a job right now (if you can find one). Start out as a legal secretary - and see what you think. A lot of paralegals start out as legal secretaries. A lot of paralegals have no formal schooling..

That is an excellent plan. If you can type fast 60wpm, get a job as a legal secretary now. Find them in the legal newspaper, and the Sunday paper. Or go to legal agences. Even get a receptionist position in law firm. GEt you feet wet now to see if you like the environment.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: That is an excellent plan. If you can type fast 60wpm, get a job as a legal secretary now. Find them in the legal newspaper, and the Sunday paper. Or go to legal agences. Even get a receptionist position in law firm. GEt you feet wet now to see if you like the environment.

There are a lot of ads that say no experience necessary. They will pay you just above minimum wage. But you do get all holidays off, are working inside a building, get to sit on your butt all day, and have access to the internet. Aside from those benefits, you will get a start in the legal field.

Mary inTampa in Tampa, Florida said: There are a lot of ads that say no experience necessary. They will pay you just above minimum wage. But you do get all holidays off, are working inside a building, get to sit on your butt all day, and have access to the internet. Aside from those benefits, you will get a start in the legal field.

Be careful of using the Internet for non-work purposes. Employees get terminated for that.

Lynn in in Manhattan Beach, California said: This is supposed to be a Paralegal Jobs Forum, but more and more it sounds like a place to trash the profession, or complain about previous employers. It is such a turn off, that in actuality it turned me off from pursuing a certificate to become a paralegal. I probably should have listened to an educator and not paid attention to most of what has been written here.

The fora are intended to educate. That includes educating about the pros and cons of a profession.

Law is a tough profession. Law and the work can be interesting, but the people, hours and workload are tough. Lawyers, by and large, are a tough crew. One needs armor-plated skin, titanium nerves and a cast-iron constitution to deal with lawyers and the workload.

Lawyers are very demanding but chary with gratitude. Litigators work in an adversarial environment, but some of them cannot turn it off. Those individuals often treat their nonlawyer assistants as adversaries. It's tough to handle such treatment.

Of course, other industries have stress, impossible workloads and difficult personalities, but you have asked about paralegal as a career possibility. In the meantime, entry paralegal jobs are few and far between. At least around here, the market is gutted with excellent, qualified and experienced paralegals. You need and deserve to be educated about these things if you are considering this vocation.

Be assured that what you are reading is the truth. The posters here have lived it.

a in Toronto, Ontario said: Lynn, don't listen to what people are writing on the forum. If you want to do it go ahead, your luck may turn out different.

If you have had different experiences in the legal industry, please share them.

Of course, other industries have stress, impossible workloads and difficult personalities, but you have asked about paralegal as a career possibility. In the meantime, entry paralegal jobs are few and far between. At least around here, the market is <glutted> with excellent, qualified and experienced paralegals. You need and deserve to be educated about these things if you are considering this vocation.

(corrected)

Lynn, if you want a more balanced view of the Paralegal profession, from paralegals currently working in the field, you might want to check out the Legal Assistant Today (LAT) Listserve. LAT is THE industry trade magazine and the listserve is pretty active with both seasoned and newbie paralegals offering advice and guidance in the field. The participants will give you a more objective perspective of the field without all the lawyer bashing.

FROM THE LAT. THIS SAYS IT ALL: Look at the pay and years of experience requested. Spiffy-looking magazine though.
________
Job Title: Paralegal/ Litigation Secretary
Employer: Brian P. Cweren
Location: Houston, TX
Salary/Benefits: $12.00 to $16.00 per hour depending on experience
Date Posted: November 11, 2008

Job Description:
Solo practitioner in Greenway Plaza area (Richmond and Buffalo Speedway) seeking an experienced paralegal or litigation secretary with at least five (5) years experience, good organizational skills (indexing pleadings, etc.), keeping up with court dates, keeping clients informed, etc. Docket consists primarily of residential evictions. You must have a criminal free

Mary inTampa in Tampa, Florida said: Salary/Benefits: $12.00 to $16.00 per hour depending on experience...

I understand CLA is a big deal in Texas, so one probably needs that credential to be considered. Pay works out to $33.3K max, based on a forty-hour week. That attorney will probably try to get someone in for the $12/hour; that works out to - get this - $25K. Terrible paralegal pay for five-plus years of experience.

I don't follow legal secretary pay closely, but the pay sounds bad for that job, too. All in all, terrible pay for well qualified and experienced people. Of course, pay varies according to region.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I understand CLA is a big deal in Texas, so one probably needs that credential to be considered. Pay works out to $33.3K max, based on a forty-hour week. That attorney will probably try to get someone in for the $12/hour; that works out to - get this - $25K. Terrible paralegal pay for five-plus years of experience.

I don't follow legal secretary pay closely, but the pay sounds bad for that job, too. All in all, terrible pay for well qualified and experienced people. Of course, pay varies according to region.

What a lot of attorneys and firms are doing using the Economics Factor: Supply and demand equals price. Right now - everywhere - there is a huge supply, not much demand; therefore, low price.

Jane Do Girl in Milton, Florida said: Lynn, if you want a more balanced view of the Paralegal profession, from paralegals currently working in the field, you might want to check out the Legal Assistant Today (LAT) Listserve. LAT is THE industry trade magazine and the listserve is pretty active with both seasoned and newbie paralegals offering advice and guidance in the field. The participants will give you a more objective perspective of the field without all the lawyer bashing.

Thanks!

Jane Do Girl in Milton, Florida said: Lynn, if you want a more balanced view of the Paralegal profession, from paralegals currently working in the field, you might want to check out the Legal Assistant Today (LAT) Listserve. LAT is THE industry trade magazine and the listserve is pretty active with both seasoned and newbie paralegals offering advice and guidance in the field. The participants will give you a more objective perspective of the field without all the lawyer bashing.

Nice try JAne Do Girl- Here is the flaw in the perspective. ONe - the magazine is a marketing tool, full of fluff..I say this not to discredit those paralegals who found their slot and had smoooth careers. The big questions is and the flaw is :when did these paralegals start their career. 1970's thur 1990's - yeah, you could make it happen. TODAY, and now, in the economy we live in- their career paths and possibilities of getting a job do not exist. That is the FLAW. The paralegal market and the career paths proffered at the times when paraelgals were a growth field do not exist in today's economy. Therefore , the flaw is that they are jaded to today's economy and what are the trends for growth jobs. The paralegal job is no longer a growth job - it is an oversaturated field.

Jane Do Girl in Milton, Florida said: Lynn, if you want a more balanced view of the Paralegal profession, from paralegals currently working in the field, you might want to check out the Legal Assistant Today (LAT) Listserve. LAT is THE industry trade magazine ....

Nice try JAne Do Girl- Here is the flaw in the perspective. ONe - the magazine is a marketing tool, full of fluff..I say this not to discredit those paralegals who found their slot and had smoooth careers. The big questions is and the flaw is :when did these paralegals start their career. 1970's thur 1990's - yeah, you could make it happen. TODAY, and now, in the economy we live in- their career paths and possibilities of getting a job do not exist. That is the FLAW. The paralegal market and the career paths proffered at the times when paraelgals were a growth field do not exist in today's economy. Therefore , the flaw is that they are jaded to today's economy and what are the trends for growth jobs. The paralegal job is no longer a growth job - it is an oversaturated field.

Lynn in in Manhattan Beach, California said: This is supposed to be a Paralegal Jobs Forum, but more and more it sounds like a place to trash the profession, or complain about previous employers. It is such a turn off, that in actuality it turned me off from pursuing a certificate to become a paralegal. I probably should have listened to an educator and not paid attention to most of what has been written here.

That is why you have to rely on your own gut feelings and pursue your career goals regardless of what anyone else has to say. Stay positive and don't give up on your professional goals. :)

www.newyorkparalegalblog.com/

Joel Irving in Lindenhurst, New York said: That is why you have to rely on your own gut feelings and pursue your career goals regardless of what anyone else has to say. Stay positive and don't give up on your professional goals.

What other empty platitudes do you have to share with us, Joel(s)? One should research a career thoroughly before making a decision. That research includes learning about the kind of people with whom one is likely to work and be supervised. It also includes learning about the job market and likelihood of getting a job after finishing paralegal school.

Once again, Joel(s), because you have never worked as a paralegal, you don't know what you're talking about. And you are unethical to shill your revenue-generating blog on Indeed's free fora to the detriment of its paid advertisers.

Lynn,

You may also want to look at this Paralegal forum: www.paralegalchat.com. The 'Careers' tab links to job postings from around the Country too.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: What other empty platitudes do you have to share with us, Joel(s)? One should research a career thoroughly before making a decision. That research includes learning about the kind of people with whom one is likely to work and be supervised. It also includes learning about the job market and likelihood of getting a job after finishing paralegal school. Once again, Joel(s), because you have never worked as a paralegal, you don't know what you're talking about. And you are unethical to shill your revenue-generating blog on Indeed's free fora to the detriment of its paid advertisers.

You do not need to make comments about me.

Jane Do Girl in Cantonment, Florida said: Lynn,

You may also want to look at this Paralegal forum: www.paralegalchat.com . The 'Careers' tab links to job postings from around the Country too.

Yeah - the best blog of truthful information is on "Mean things my employer does" - And I recommend to anyone looking into the career of paralegal to get the skinny of what your job can be like.

Joel Irving/Joel Woodard/Phoenix/FightBack in Lindenhurst, New York said: You do not need to make comments about me.

Though you love to start up discussions about paralegal, Joel(s), you are what you are, Joel(s) - someone who has never been employed as a paralegal - and it shows by your comments.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: [T]he best blog of truthful information is on "Mean things my employer does" - And I recommend to anyone looking into the career of paralegal to get the skinny of what your job can be like.

Seconded. Some interesting stuff on that thread, like the attorney who canned a paralegal because a client grieved him (the attorney) for alleged misdeeds. The attorney hired the paralegal after the alleged misdeeds. Somehow, they became the paralegal's fault.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Though you love to start up discussions about paralegal, Joel(s), you are what you are, Joel(s) - someone who has never been employed as a paralegal - and it shows by your comments.

You wonder why you were fired? You wonder why you cannot get work as a paralegal, even though you have an illustrious ABA approved degree? I am ROFLMFAO!

Joel(s)/FightBack/Phoenix in Lindenhurst, New York said: You wonder why you were fired? You wonder why you cannot get work as a paralegal, even though you have an illustrious ABA approved degree? I am ROFLMFAO!

It's not a degree, Joel(s), it is a certificate. At least use the correct terminology when discussing something.

I'm not wondering about anything, Joel(s). I was employed as a paralegal for more than eleven years in multiple specialities. You have not worked for one day as a paralegal.

And, Joel(s), speaking of being fired, because of your "illustrious" career at JPMorgan Chase, including your little sexual harassment lawsuit against it that you have publicized on these fora, and your silly little blogs and talk show, you have nothing to laugh about regarding job losses. You do have my pity, however.

Lynn in in Manhattan Beach, California said: This is supposed to be a Paralegal Jobs Forum... I probably should have listened to an educator and not paid attention to most of what has been written here.

Hi Lynn - I see you're from Manhattan Beach. I lived in Hollywood for several years before moving to OC. I used to rollerblade out there almost every weekend, and I miss it.

I'm a former legal secretary. I started in Downtown LA and was working in Costa Mesa when I left the field 5 years later. I can honestly say that it is by far my life's biggest mistake-my decision to go into legal. I grew to hate it to a point that I didn't know how much longer I could stand to show up for work. Every day was a dread. You commented above about people trashing the profession. I read most of what's on these forums, and as I experienced the profession, everything they say is true. And if you are turned off by what you are reading enough that you've decided not to pursue a paralegal certificate, that's probably a good thing.If you think it's bad reading about it here, wait until you get a law firm job and have to listen to all the secretaries and paralegals all day complain. And if you and all your coworkers get together for lunch or for a night out on a weekend, you will hear constant complaining about the job. The sad thing is that they have dam good reason to complain; however, when I'm eating and out socializing, I really would rather talk about something else.

I started at a very large firm on Wilshire, where there were a few secretaries who were in their 50's at that time and had been at that firm alone 20 years. They liked their jobs. Other than those women, I NEVER met a secretary OR paralegal who liked this line of work. The bad morale is industry wide. Attorneys are the nastiest, most vindictive people on the planet...

...

You will not be appreciated regardless of how hard you work. You will work for attys who have big beautiful homes, drive luxury cars, own vacation homes and rental properties, and travel to exotic places for a month. They won't pay you enough to buy your own little condo. It's the atty who will have a lot to show for your hard work, NOT YOU. Attys can't accomplish all that without having a secretary.

Think of the time you put into a profession as an investment because that's what it is, really. You have options where you invest your money. You can put it in a savings account and earn measley (sp?) interest or you can put in a mutual fund and earn higher interest. Which is the wiser choice? Well, my opinion is that being a paralegal is not a wise investment of time. It's as bad as stuffing all your money in a mattress. Your return isn't that great, especially not when you consider what the attys expect out of you. It's also dead end because you can't get promoted. I hope you consider instead a career that has advancement opportunities and room for growth because paralegal and legal secretary don't have that.

Well said.

Absolutely.

Hope finals went well for you, dh!

dh in Northern CA, California said: Attorneys are the nastiest, most vindictive people on the planet...

They are, with few exceptions. Emphasis on "vindictive."

"It's also dead end because you can't get promoted. I hope you consider instead a career that has advancement opportunities and room for growth because paralegal and legal secretary don't have that."

That's why I left after 5 years in the field.I wish someone told me all this when I was still in school.I wish someone pulled me aside and said, "what's wrong with you - are you for real?" Nobody did that.The college, magazines and trade publications all just capitalize on someone's ignorance of youth.Sales isn't for everyone.And neither is my message here.But real estate was hot in the 90s in New York City and its boroughs.I know beyond a reasonable doubt that had I gone into real estate in the 90s (as some people tried to persuade me back then)I would have accomplished a lot more by now.I had drive, energy and endless ambition.Legal just killed it there.Real estate would have nurtured it.Now I must wait for real estate to pick up.I feel like I've found my dream.my life's calling - IT'S REAL ESTATE!! Some people might actually find another legal related field that they like better. But they have to come to that on their own, like I did.I had close friends who were doing sales who told me I would regret becoming a paralegal.One did real estate, the other does beds at Sleepys which pays base plus commission.He is now a successful manager with his own storefront.I never listened.Experience is the best teacher. I learned on my own, and so will others.

Another quickie. When I was 35, the 50 year-old-legal workers were considered experienced and had value to their employer. Those few I worked with, they acted like they were on a pedestal.

Today, now that I am 50, I am not "a good fit" because the new workers are in their early 20's - young and cheap, working for attorneys who are under 40.

At 50, when I go on an interview, I am considered old. That is the reality today - and it's not going to change because there are too many people for too few jobs. Someday you will be 50 - and most likely, unemployed.

In this current economy,seriously,unless you have a profession that calls for graduate/post-graduate degree; or have family member/"special" networking contact at fortune500, many people are out of jobs.Doesn't matter if you are para this, legal that, or whatever.It's the economy, it's not you.You can't take it personally if you want to survive.As much as I like real estate, it's in the toilet right now.I can't focus on that I have to deal with it and move on! You have to ignore and not react to stupid interviewers, any dumb questions or other job related obstacles related to you directly or not.Fix and tweak whatever needs to be re-done and move on.Don't dwell.Eventually someone will hire you.I just got hired for a social services job taking care of autistic people. I was personally recommended by a friend and have that kind of experience.I'm not ashamed here for "straying away from admin jobs".This is a survival back up job-not looking for new career here.They hired me on the spot, no usual hr bs.Flexibility and wise investment of energy is the key that opens up everything.I will still wait for real estate to pick up while I take whatever survival jobs I can get.That's it.You can't be ruled by the "resume" or worry what people will think.Deal and move on.

Mary inTampa in Tampa, Florida said: Another quickie. When I was 35, the 50 year-old-legal workers were considered experienced and had value to their employer. Those few I worked with, they acted like they were on a pedestal.

Today, now that I am 50, I am not "a good fit" because the new workers are in their early 20's - young and cheap, working for attorneys who are under 40.

At 50, when I go on an interview, I am considered old. That is the reality today - and it's not going to change because there are too many people for too few jobs. Someday you will be 50 - and most likely, unemployed.

Hey, I'm 37 who looks 25 and am unhireable in New York City for any admin jobs - Legal or not. One man asked me a week ago, "how old are you?" Like he couldn't figure it out on the resume - graduated college in 1995. he couldn't do the math? The question is illegal, by the way.I didn't answer but sweetly said I really don't feel comfortable with that question.This was an upscale Manhattan CFP in a financial firm.You know he knows the labor laws and EEOC questions considered illegal.I'm seeing that the resume is now becoming an obstacle to getting a job in NYC, not helping.IF it's not one thing with them it's another.

Grant013 in New York, New York said: Hey, I'm 37 who looks 25 and am unhireable in New York City for any admin jobs - Legal or not. One man asked me a week ago, "how old are you?" Like he couldn't figure it out on the resume - graduated college in 1995.

Yeah. Who says life begins at forty? Your experience doesn't surprise me in the least. I sensed years ago that thirty-five is age discrimination's low end.

Consider yanking your college graduation year off your resume. It gives employers another clue about one's age. Grad year matters primarily for new grads seeking work. Recent work history matters more for those who've been employed for a while.

Unless one has recently earned a new degree or graduate degree, leave off graduation year. For that matter, one doesn't necessarily have to list chronological years of employment. One can list number of years with each company. Of course, one may have to own up to the chronological years at an interview.

Grant013 said: The question is illegal, by the way. I didn't answer but sweetly said I really don't feel comfortable with that question. This was an upscale Manhattan CFP in a financial firm. You know he knows the labor laws and EEOC questions considered illegal.

You're damn straight he knows them, Tanya. You could counter such questions by asking how age is relevant to the job. In the meantime, hot-trot to the EEOC and report that individual.

Continued good luck with your efforts.

Thanks Displaced Legal, KMM and everyone else. No..c'mon...:) :) :) lol.I'm not going to get myself worked up regarding that Manhattanite nerdy mama's boy by reporting him.There was something very ugly about him - it's unexplainable.He had this stare like he can see right through you.F*** weirdo I swear. He had that voyeur, Peephole Peter Pan, weirdo look about him - like he doesn't get any - u know?I like to choose my battles wisely.What if he's a stalker or freak or something? I'll be his word against mine..etc.I'll never be rid of him if that's the case. :)He will get his due from someone else, trust me..payback will come eventually. But seriously, I LIKE YOUR IDEA ABOUT LEAVING OFF GRADUATION YEAR.They will probably ask at the interviews anyway, right? I say 2008 is the "Year of the Weirdos" for me. Please excuse my potty mouth up above but I kind of had it with the whole job hunt.Sometimes I just have to vent a bit.otherwise I'm sane.

BTW, If 1 out of 50 interviewers since September has issues with age - then 37 really isn't an issue. Granted if many people are asking the same question or alluding to the same issue then maybe I should leave the graduation date of 1995 off the resume.But that isn't happening.Wouldn't it look suspicious leaving only that off because there are dates everywhere else? It would prompt them to ask that question BECAUSE it calls attention to it.It's like reverse psych no? Do you see what I'm saying? I don't want to obsess over this.

Grant013 in New York, New York said: I LIKE YOUR IDEA ABOUT LEAVING OFF GRADUATION YEAR.

Why not? Think about it. Ultimately, after one obtains employment experience and except for a freshly-minted degree, etc., does graduation year really matter? This applies to young and old alike.

I would even write "NA" for graduation year on an app.

Whatever you do, don't hand 'em a rope with which to hang you.

Grant013 in New York, New York said: If 1 out of 50 interviewers since September has issues with age - then 37 really isn't an issue. Granted if many people are asking the same question or alluding to the same issue then maybe I should leave the graduation date of 1995 off the resume. But that isn't happening. Wouldn't it look suspicious leaving only that off because there are dates everywhere else? It would prompt them to ask that question BECAUSE it calls attention to it. It's like reverse psych no?

Really, 1995 isn't serious. Compare to graduation in 1973. Nonetheless, you don't want to give them any excuse whatsoever to discriminate against you. Volunteering your graduation year lets them determine your age within a year, give or take, and opens the door wide open to age discrimination.

Your goal is to vault past the gatekeeper and into the interviewee's chair. Your degree is important, but your knowledge, skills, abilities and work experience are your stock in trade. Your resume and cover letter should sell these things. You may never be asked your graduation year if you impress them with your abilities.

Finally, employers can ask only if a candidate is the minimum age for employment in that state. Any other age-related questions or allusions thereto are illegal.

having pondered a bit on this, I really have to agree.it's worth a shot. you explained it very well and it makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't write or discuss religion, ethnicity or race either so why, at the same time, would anyone get into this issue then? I clearly see your point now.

dh in Northern CA, California said: Hi Lynn -
I started at a very large firm on Wilshire, where there were a few secretaries who were in their 50's at that time and had been at that firm alone 20 years. .........They liked their jobs. Other than those women, I NEVER met a secretary OR paralegal who liked this line of work. The bad morale is industry wide. Attorneys are the nastiest, most vindictive people on the planet...

___________________________________________________________________

I've temped in a few firms where there is good stability like that and the people like their jobs. Those types of firms are few and far between. Most legal support staff hate their jobs and, as you pointed out, spend their off time (like lunch) complaining about it. For the most part, as you know, your last sentence sums it up.

People who are in the few decent firms have no plans to go anywhere. They've heard the stories. I have a friend who works for an attorney who recently turned 100. She had left briefly to take a job with another firm. She found out the hard way. She was, luckily, able to go back to her former job because he hadn't found anyone. She does worry about what she'll do when he finally retires or dies.

I think about my early employers, and the people that I've seen since then. The field is very different than what it used to be.

The main reason lawyers are mean and vindictive is because - who ya' gonna' tell? (1) We can't (or won't) sue them or make waves because if we do we will be blacklisted and have a difficult time getting another job. (2) For every one of us who walks out the door for a bad attorney, there are 50 more waiting to get that job.

Mary inTampa in Tampa, Florida said: The main reason lawyers are mean and vindictive is because - who ya' gonna' tell? (1) We can't (or won't) sue them or make waves because if we do we will be blacklisted and have a difficult time getting another job....

I once overheard the attorney for whom I worked give a phone reference for an ex-employee. I didn't hear the entire conversation, but some of it sounded negative. His remark after he got off the phone stuck in my mind. He said, "Sometimes you have to tell the truth" about ex-employees.

What the hell difference did it make? The person is gone from there. That person is not a problem anymore, if the person was a problem at all. Why stand in that person's way of getting another job?

That's what I mean when I say some attorneys can be vindictive. Of course, employers in other industries can be vindictive as well.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Absolutely.

Hope finals went well for you, dh!

Hi DLP. Thank you. My finals went better than expected. I'm still waiting for one professor to submit grades - I'm expecting an A in that class. I already know I have A's in my other classes (one of which I was expecting a B). So I may have all A's this semester. I've never done that before. I have one semester left. There's light at the end of the tunnel...

With this economy and my age, I think the only thing I can do is pray.

Most paralegals I know do not trash their profession. I know plenty of happy paralegals and, really, I can't complain too much about it. It's a steady job, okay pay, pretty good benefits, you get a little bit of respect, you have responsibility of varying levels, you get to use your brains on most days (not all), the "bosses" are truly the smartest most capable people in the room (unlike the corporate world were idiots can get promoted and can be your boss).

The downsides are:

(1) jobs are harder and harder to come by (luckily I have a Bachelors degree which makes me stand out);

(2) billables are harder and harder to meet;

(3) seems to be a trend to move paralegals out of offices and into cubes (again blurring the line between secretary and paralegal which is another downside, I guess);

(4) you can never be the boss (at first you don't care, but later you do);

(5) some of the attorneys are prima donnas, (although I have been pretty lucky in that respect);

(6) many jobs require overtime (one job I have had did not require it, but current one does every now and then); and

(7) most good paying paralegal jobs are in the central business districts of major cities, requiring longer commutes.

Paralegal in Dallas, Texas said: Y]ou get a little bit of respect....

Very little respect, actually.....

Paralegal in Dallas, Texas said: [Y]ou have responsibility of varying levels....

....but none of the authority. Never. If something goes the least bit wrong, attorneys blame the paralegals. It's always the paralegal's responsibility if something goes wrong, and usually if the attorney misinformed the paralegal or did not give the paralegal adequate direction.

One shareholder told me the buck stops at the paralegal's desk. Bullsh!t. It stops at the attorney's desk. Things that went wrong in that office were never the shareholder's fault; she always blamed someone else when she bore ultimate responsibility.

I would never recommend paralegal to anyone for every reason I've set forth here and on other fora. I'm happy to provide information about it for those whose hearts are set on it.