Lies about pharmacist job market

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

holmes in River Grove, Illinois said: Do not believe some of the lies being written here regarding lack of job opportunities for pharmacists. These liars are trying to scare people off from applying to pharmacy school because they fear that supply will overtake demand. Fact is, pharmacists make tons of money right out of school and there are and will be many job openings in the future. This is all just a feeble attempt to prevent people from entering this lucrative field. Liars!

Do still think we are all liars?

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

www.topix.com/forum/com/wag/T2GNS6K9IKPTPHJQO/p3 Union talk in pharmacy? Very hard to get the truth on from the topix forum. Really dont know who is makin the posts(management or workers). I think it come down do this. When will it ever stop getting worse for us as pharmacist? Every year management wants more work with less help. You see your family less and less, and when you do see them you dont have the energy to be involved like you want to. So at this point i have thrown my hands up and say why not try unions. I mean these guys would have us do open heart surgery if we got a one day certification.

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

www.nipcweb.com/Overworked_pharmacists.pdf I would like to show this to the politicians in Florida during a live interview. I am referring to the recent bill allowing six techs per pharmacist. And this article is from 2007, can't wait to see the next one.

Here is another great old article:
Month’s earlier the pharmacist had asked for more staff. Why? To "decrease the pharmacist’s stress"

When Tabitha Jones picked up her stepson’s medicine at a Walgreens store near Nashville in 2004, she had no way to know the pharmacy was so busy that its manager had asked for more staffing months earlier to "decrease the pharmacist’s stress."

A USA TODAY investigation found evidence that corporate policies — such as allowing or encouraging pharmacists to fill hundreds of prescriptions daily and rewarding fast work — can contribute to errors like the one that befell Trey Jones.

Source: USA Today: Pharmacy Errors

Tags: medical malpractice, pharmacy errors

This entry was posted by David Austin on Tuesday, February 19th, 2008 at 3:32 pm and is filed under Malpractice . You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

We need a new 20/20 investigation with more help from retired pharmacts.

www.highlighthealth.com/healthcare/pharmacy-errors-avoid-prescription-dispensing-mistakes/

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Richarabid in Jacksonville, Florida

19 months ago

Hey everyone! I'm a graduating high school senior with over 60 college credit hours under my belt thanks to my dual enrollment course I took. I initially wanted to pursue pharmacy but after reading these comments, I'm not sure what to believe! I did my own little research and from what I see, It doesn't look like the future of pharmacy is looking too bright! It seems that it's not what it used to be anymore.. So now, I need help! What other majors should I pursue besides pharmacy? Should I still do it? I got admitted into FAMU so i really need to make a decision before I go to my orientation... is pharmacy something that will be rewarding both financially and morally? I need answers because I feel stuck.. I also don't wanna be in tons of debt when I get out of school.

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schlomo in Deerfield Beach, Florida

19 months ago

Richarabid in Jacksonville, Florida said: Hey everyone! I'm a graduating high school senior with over 60 college credit hours under my belt thanks to my dual enrollment course I took. I initially wanted to pursue pharmacy but after reading these comments, I'm not sure what to believe! I did my own little research and from what I see, It doesn't look like the future of pharmacy is looking too bright! It seems that it's not what it used to be anymore.. So now, I need help! What other majors should I pursue besides pharmacy? Should I still do it? I got admitted into FAMU so i really need to make a decision before I go to my orientation... is pharmacy something that will be rewarding both financially and morally? I need answers because I feel stuck.. I also don't wanna be in tons of debt when I get out of school.

Check out Aaron Cleary on this podcast.

kerrylutz.libsyn.com/captain-capitalism-time-you-started-enjoying-the-decline-06-may-13

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flrph in miami, Florida

19 months ago

Just getting out of high school with 70 years ahead of you to accomplish whatever you want. When thinking of a career for life and not just a pot of gold at the end of an Ivy Hallway think in very broad terms and narrow down to what you like to do for fun. Start with whether you enjoy being indoors or outdoors. Secondly, where do your passions run. What excites you? Computers? Creating things? Music? A hobby? A sport? Now think how you can make a living and be involved in that field. Maybe you enjoy music but can't play an instrument. So now figure out how you can work in a music career from another angle. Sound engineer?. Instrument sales? Talent agent? Attorney specializing in licensing and copyrights?
You get the picture. Think about what you find fun and entertaining and pursue your career around it. It may be direct. Love golf then swing away. Can't swing? Become a play by play announcer.
Take some time to travel. Backpack Europe, Asia, Africa. Maybe do some international volunteering for. Few years. Peace corps? During this time and maturation process think about how your experiences may lead you to a career you can live with for a life time.
Most Pharmacist hate their jobs. Stop in and talk to a few. You'll find out quick enough that the money ( not as good as just 7 years ago) just isn't worth being miserable most days.
Good luck. Keep your options open.

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

1st off don't make money the most important thing in choosing a career. Now when it comes to pharmacy i can only speak about the situation in retail pharmacy. I challenge you to find one retail pharmacist(staff) that has a family and that can say they like their job. I know there is not a retail pharmacy manager out there that likes their job so i will keep the challenge at staff. So basically i am saying after you're search you should close the door on retail pharmacy.

Go talk to clinical pharmacist in a hospital. They may say they like their job but may tell you to be a doctor. The best thing to do is to try and shadow as many professionals as you can.

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Rx Veteran in Maryland

19 months ago

@schlomo in Deerfield Beach, Florida

Here are the questions.
Why did you want to be a pharmacist?
Help pts, drugs are interesting, possibly having your own business.

Are you a people person?

Do you prefer rigid controlled environments or episodic,
fly-by-the-seat of your pants, quick decision type situations.

There are different types of compensation. The standard choices are
quality of life or $. In other words, jobs cost you.
The choice is either time away from other things
(family, recreational, Holistic type lifestyles.)or money.
There are a lucky few who get both.

If it's money and you like health care. Check out the medical
specialties with a growing need and High income.
Ophthalmology comes to mind. Aging population=$

If it's money and you are a super programer..
software design, cyber-security allow more job
freedom and $. But you must the very, very, good.

Forest ranger is a highly sought after job. It's
not the money. It's the work environment.

Pharmacy is perfect for me. Episodic, complex people and
job situations. Requirement for extreme alertness to
everything going on from security, drug issues, and
acute patient presentations. The business component
was an additional source of accomplishment.

I traded my youth for my credentials.
I traded family/other pursuits for helping
care for other families.
I would not trade my choices for anything.

The type of pharmacy I practice is on the endangered list.
(See above) I am personally going to address the threat
to patient safety with the board of pharmacy. The danger
is very real. Pharmacists have lost their empowerment to
corporate demands. We are NOT able to protect our patients.

So what is your ideal job? Write down the qualities in two
columns. Want vs Need. Then free think about what would be
your ideal job. Follow up by interviewing, volunteering, and/or
internships.

Hope this helps.

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futurestudent in Ansonia, Connecticut

19 months ago

I am going to school in the fall for Pre-Pharmacy, and after reading this, I'm very scared. I'm not sure how quickly and easily I can change my major, or even what major to go into. I am still considering something in the medical field, because I myself find it very interesting. Some body please help me, I don't want to spend 6 years in college only to find myself broke and unemployed.

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flrph in miami, Florida

19 months ago

Look into Physician Assistant or advanced Nursing degree. Nurses with master are calling their own shots and can prescribe.
When making a life plan think very broadly and narrow down to a career doing something that you enjoy. Like being indoors or outdoors. Like people, don't like people? Like one on one or crowds? Are you an extrovert or introvert? What excites you? Now pick some aspect of that and pursue it. Like music but can't play... Find another avenue within music. Like baseball but suck at it? Find a job working within the sport.
Chasing a passing interest or a job for a certain salary is sure to lead to misery.
Stay thirsty my friend.

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mvd5942 in Godfrey, Illinois

19 months ago

I am a big proponent for pharmacy but it is getting a little ridiculous. Since the ASHP has been pushing residencies and specialist residencies, your pharmacy education can last for more than eight years and combine that with universities opening more and more pharmacy schools, the future may look dim. On the bright side, pharmacy is still listed as #3 in healthcare careers and 3rd in salary (behind physicians and dentists). They still predict an increase need for pharmacists but that may be met by all the new schools opening and graduating pharmacists. We still aren't sure how pharmacy will fit into the affordable care act. The reimbursement for readmissions to hospital is an area where pharmacists can get involved. My best advice to you is to research the prospects independently. Do not look to the university who wants to collect your money for eight years for the answer and WORK in a pharmacy NOW. I don't know why students don't do this anymore. They graduate and have no experience and may end up hating it and now owe $100K in student loans. Look into tuition reimbursement programs at health systems or big retailers for assistance. You may also want to find out the requirements for an internist. I know they are in DEMAND and the requirements may not be all that different in terms of time spent. Good Luck!

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

18 months ago

I just retired and turned in my license in Tennessee at age 64. I went to dental school
on a Navy scholarship immediately following pharmacy school but worked part-time as a
pharmacist for over 25 years at our local county hospital. We now have five pharmacy
schools in a state that needs maybe two. A big part of my career was tied to the military as a active duty and later Navy reserve dentist. I would highly recommend looking into a career as a military pharmacist. The Army, Navy, and Air Force all have
pharmacy officers and after serving 20 years you retire at one-half your base pay. I
had a small civilian dental practice, and worked my part-time hospital pharmacy job but
was very active in my military career, traveling the world on short term assignments
to augment navy dental clinic shortages. My reward was retiring (age 60) as a Navy captain (equivalent to Army full colonel) with free healthcare for myself and wife
and a pension large enough to never have to work again. I couldn't imagine working
at a chain store in an environment where they tell you everyday they have 50 guys they
can hire to replace you.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

18 months ago

In reference to my above post I would be happy to talk to anyone interested in military
Pharmacy or Dentistry. I am not a recruiter and have no economic interest in doing so. I am in the Tullahoma Tenn phone book. James L. Miller DDS

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Scared for Rx in New York, New York

18 months ago

mvd5942 in Godfrey, Illinois said: My best advice to you is to research the prospects independently. Do not look to the university who wants to collect your money for eight years for the answer and WORK in a pharmacy NOW. I don't know why students don't do this anymore. They graduate and have no experience and may end up hating it and now owe $100K in student loans. Look into tuition reimbursement programs at health systems or big retailers for assistance. You may also want to find out the requirements for an internist. I know they are in DEMAND and the requirements may not be all that different in terms of time spent. Good Luck!

With regards to students graduating with no experience -

I went to pharmacy school in a small state in New England that didn't have a pharmacy school before. When this new school opened, all the pharmacy jobs went into immediate LOCKDOWN! The only way you can get into working retail/hospital in the state was if you transferred from whatever company you were working for as a tech OR if you had really, really good connections before.

There were many people in my class who had never worked in a pharmacy before and guess what? There are many students who didn't have job prospects lined up at graduation. And outside of IPPE/APPE rotations, they had no experience in pharmacy.

So to say for students to find work - it's a lot harder than that!

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DMP in Moorestown, New Jersey

17 months ago

holmes in River Grove, Illinois said: Do not believe some of the lies being written here regarding lack of job opportunities for pharmacists. These liars are trying to scare people off from applying to pharmacy school because they fear that supply will overtake demand. Fact is, pharmacists make tons of money right out of school and there are and will be many job openings in the future. This is all just a feeble attempt to prevent people from entering this lucrative field. Liars!

The lack of jobs is NOT a lie. Of course if you want to go work in East Jabip, then ok, there are jobs there. There are not too many jobs near me though.

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mvd in Godfrey, Illinois

17 months ago

Scared for Rx in New York, New York said: With regards to students graduating with no experience -

I went to pharmacy school in a small state in New England that didn't have a pharmacy school before. When this new school opened, all the pharmacy jobs went into immediate LOCKDOWN! The only way you can get into working retail/ hospital in the state was if you transferred from whatever company you were working for as a tech OR if you had really, really good connections before.

There were many people in my class who had never worked in a pharmacy before and guess what? There are many students who didn't have job prospects lined up at graduation. And outside of IPPE/APPE rotations, they had no experience in pharmacy.

So to say for students to find work - it's a lot harder than that!

I realize that it is very hard for students to get real life pharmacy experience. The way the schools of pharmacy schedule their student's course loads make it very difficult. It is not impossible. Volunteer at a pharmacy (hospital is usually more beneficial for students) or ask a pharmacist to mentor you. I would have loved to mentor a student. We had 3-4 pharmacy students actually drawing a paycheck but we had a couple of student volunteers too. I just think it is really important to know what you are getting into. I can't tell you how many times I have heard pharmacists say how much they hate their jobs but now feel stuck. It is very sad. Be creative-if you can't find a position in pharmacy find one close to pharmacy. Is there a manufacturing, home infusion, long term care, mail order, sales, professional association, etc... near?

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mvd in Godfrey, Illinois

17 months ago

DMP in Moorestown, New Jersey said: The lack of jobs is NOT a lie. Of course if you want to go work in East Jabip, then ok, there are jobs there. There are not too many jobs near me though.

I have recently started looking for a job and it is very tough. There are two pharmacy schools is the greater St. Louis area and the recruiters are receiving 50 or more applications for a position. I have expanded my search to positions that typically have been filled with BSRNers but doesn't really require a nursing degree and "Patient Medical Home" i.e. integrated healthcare. I am also looking at areas that have growth potential when the ACA is enacted(like Walgreens contracting with hospitals to provide intense discharge counseling to decrease readmission rates). I have noticed that there are "Specialist Pharmacist" or "Speciality Meds Pharmacists". This seems like an area of growth. I have about 20 years left to practice so I am looking to become board certified to be able to market myself better. We have to expand our definition of what a pharmacist is/does to survive/compete in this "glut of pharmacists" market.

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mvd in Godfrey, Illinois

17 months ago

NavyGirl7 in San Diego, California said: I am not sure what you have heard, but Texas is an extremely welcoming and polite state. The only time Texans generally don't like people is when they are not willing to do hard work and earn their own living. Texas has a thriving economy and has true southern hospitality .

Unless of course you are a woman, minority or child-rape kits that "clean out women", TX rates near bottom as a good place to raise kids, restricted voters 2 hours after SCOTUS struck down part of the voting rights act-sorry, but Rick Perry & Ted Cruz make me crazy.

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mvd in Godfrey, Illinois

17 months ago

mvd in Godfrey, Illinois said: Unless of course you are a woman, minority or child-rape kits that "clean out women", TX rates near bottom as a good place to raise kids, restricted voters 2 hours after SCOTUS struck down part of the voting rights act-sorry, but Rick Perry & Ted Cruz make me crazy.

Whoops! I meant to type "a woman, minority or child. State legislature claims rape kits "clean women out" after a rape,....et al

More TX fun facts-their GOP platform condemns teachers for teaching "Critical Thinking Skills" because it will undermine the child's authority figures.

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mvd in Godfrey, Illinois

17 months ago

PharmJ in Brandon, Florida said: The only reason why I moved to Texas without a job lined up, was because of the fact that my fiance at the time (wife now), was in texas and suggested that I move to Texas because the market was better here, due to the presence of the medical center. My wife had a job and I didn't want my wife to move to Florida without either of us having a job. So, I decided to move to Texas because even if I can't find work, at least she has a job and we will get some sort of income coming towards us.
Now, I am starting to hear that the market in Texas is getting worse, there is a tech, who graduated from pharmacy school, can't find a job and continues to work as a technician. Honestly, we really need to unionize and put a stop on them opening up pharmacy schools. I hate the fact that they are now saying that to get a job in a hospital you need a residency, and yet I spent time shadowing the technicians during my rotation. Some people who even do the residency end up landing a job as a staff pharmacist!
I feel really badly for those entering pharmacy school and have this blind view thinking they are going to land a job w/ a sign on bonus as soon as they get out, because thats what i was thinking :-(

The residency myth....I do not think they are vital for hospital staff positions-Hospitals can actually make quite a bit of money from hiring residents. I have gone to several seminars that DOPs have said they can make over 100K on starting residency programs-so the hospitals can pay the resident only 35-40K/year (work them 40-60 hours/week) and get a kickback from the US Government for a certain period of time. This is a win-win for hospitals. The schools and hospitals want residents because it increases their bottom lines. It is not that I think residents do not make valuable contributions but I think they are getting played. If I knew I would have to go to school for 8 years...I would have become an internist.

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Scared for Rx in Brooklyn, New York

17 months ago

mvd in Godfrey, Illinois said: I realize that it is very hard for students to get real life pharmacy experience. The way the schools of pharmacy schedule their student's course loads make it very difficult. It is not impossible. Volunteer at a pharmacy (hospital is usually more beneficial for students) or ask a pharmacist to mentor you. I would have loved to mentor a student. We had 3-4 pharmacy students actually drawing a paycheck but we had a couple of student volunteers too. I just think it is really important to know what you are getting into. I can't tell you how many times I have heard pharmacists say how much they hate their jobs but now feel stuck. It is very sad. Be creative -if you can't find a position in pharmacy find one close to pharmacy. Is there a manufacturing, home infusion, long term care, mail order, sales, professional association, etc... near?

Hello MVD, I am originally from NYC but went to pharmacy school in New England. After 3 years of unsuccessful attempts at landing an internship in New England, I decided I will wait until I moved back to NYC for actual work. One APPE internship went well in NYC, the others required residencies if you want to work in a hospital.

I am against residency b/c I feel residency is 4X the normal work load at 1/2 pay! Not a good trade-off if you ask me. I heard NJ is opening another pharmacy school in already PAST SATURATED market. I am currently trying to find niche markets that a recent pharmacy graduate can tap into that doesn't require licensing (until I can get licensed)!

All that clinical mess they taught us in school is just that - MESS! Maybe b/c I am in a major city, but all clinical pharmacist-"stuff" is already done by PA's, Nurses, and MDs (medical residents and interns). The clinical pharmacist just picks up the scraps.

It is a tough job market. I can't relocate due to family issues, so I am stuck in NYC. But I will keep up the good fight.

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Scared for Rx in Brooklyn, New York

17 months ago

mvd in Godfrey, Illinois said: The residency myth....I do not think they are vital for hospital staff positions-Hospitals can actually make quite a bit of money from hiring residents. I have gone to several seminars that DOPs have said they can make over 100K on starting residency programs-so the hospitals can pay the resident only 35-40K/year (work them 40-60 hours/week) and get a kickback from the US Government for a certain period of time. This is a win-win for hospitals. The schools and hospitals want residents because it increases their bottom lines. It is not that I think residents do not make valuable contributions but I think they are getting played. If I knew I would have to go to school for 8 years...I would have become an internist.

One more thing, I really feel that whatever organization is in charge of pharmacists (APhA?) waited too late to push for pharmacists to get categorized as "mid-level" practitioners (pharmacists still can't administer many medications so it's not really mid-level). During the "Golden Years" of pharmacy, pharmacists became too complacent with their six-figure salaries while nurses (and PA's) pushed for more responsibilities.....

In a nutshell, while pharmacists do possess excellent drug knowledge, that knowledge is not exclusive. I am sorry to say, but bad market timing made pharmacists lag behind other health care providers. If nurse practitioners start dispensing meds, pharmacists are DONE!

Solution = try to find markets that a pharmacist is more than a dispenser of medications.

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mvd in Brighton, Illinois

17 months ago

Hello Brooklyn. Did you see my post regarding the residency myth? I have been a clinical pharmacist in a 300+bed community hospital(part of huge BJC system). I do not have a PharmD, board certification or residency. It took me 5-7years to build relationships with physicians & c-suite folks. I had tons of ideas where a pharmacist would be very useful. It took me 15 years to convince them to put a pharmacist in the ED. The hospital opened a much more robust outpatient oncology center when the oncologist stopped getting lucrative payments. It took me 3 years to convince them that having a pharmacist there would be beneficial. I truly believe that eventually the multi-hospital health systems are going to standardize and consolidate their pharmacy departments, with majority of the pharmacists off site, handling the minutia of MD orders while have only a couple on site to execute whatever they need done in person.
I stepped out of pharmacy for a couple years and am finding it difficult to get hired. The new positions are really based on what is going to happen when the ACA is rolled out. I have noticed a lot of open positions for Specialty Medication Pharmacists-look in pharma companies (GSK, Pfizer etc...) or mail order (Express Scripts, Omnicare), managed care, insurance companies (Centene, Amerinet, Ascension, Healthways etc..). Hospitals are going to penalized if patients are readmitted before 30 days. Walgreens is contracting with hospitals for their pharmacists to do extensive medication counseling right when they get home. I feel that pharmacists are at a disadvantage when doing discharge counseling because they don't have access to the patients labs, vitals & procedure results. Boy, if we could get that information we could really make a difference. Healthcare looks like it is endorsing the concept of the "patient medical home". The medical home will include a pharmacist who would be very beneficial to the patients. Whew, sorry for all the info

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mvd in Brighton, Illinois

17 months ago

Scared for Rx in Brooklyn, New York said: One more thing, I really feel that whatever organization is in charge of pharmacists (APhA?) waited too late to push for pharmacists to get categorized as "mid-level" practitioners (pharmacists still can't administer many medications so it's not really mid-level). During the "Golden Years" of pharmacy, pharmacists became too complacent with their six-figure salaries while nurses (and PA's) pushed for more responsibilities.....

In a nutshell, while pharmacists do possess excellent drug knowledge, that knowledge is not exclusive. I am sorry to say, but bad market timing made pharmacists lag behind other health care providers. If nurse practitioners start dispensing meds, pharmacists are DONE!

Solution = try to find markets that a pharmacist is more than a dispenser of medications.

Administer? We should be able to prescribe!

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

17 months ago

I would like to know if any pharmacy association has done anything to prevent the continued disrespect pharmacists face now and in the future? These organizations seem to just take your money and hand you empty promises. I would also like to know why a college program residency has not been created for the working pharmacist? I all comes done to money. The clinical directors would rather pay residents a third of salary to do lots of work. I hear they also get funding from government for having a residency program. Your college gave you a degree, took your money, but will not help you further your education because they would rather lock the next young person in for 7 to 9 years of debt. Granted I am retail and I went for the money right out of school but I never thought conditions would get this bad. I do blame myself. Greed has taken over pharmacy, even if your not in retail it's still all about money. We need to start working together as professionals to get out of this.

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Scared for Rx in Brooklyn, New York

17 months ago

mvd in Brighton, Illinois said: Administer? We should be able to prescribe!

Hello MVD, thanks for the advice you gave out in your replies. I am actually trying to secure employment in the areas that you mentioned previously.....I think I am on the right track since you confirmed those fields.....

As for prescribing privileges, I always thought it weird that pharmacists were the only health care providers that couldn't diagnose, prescribe AND administer meds. Maybe it was to maintain objectivity???? I don't know.

The time to push for these privileges was during the 80s and 90s, when pharmacy, as a whole, was strong. Now, the world of pharmacy is very fractured and thus weak. It's much too late to try to make the pharmacist a mid-level practitioner, especially now with the job market and schools popping up like weeds.

At this point, it's anyone's guess what will happen to pharmacy when the dust settles.

Best of luck to recent graduates.....stay strong and don't give up!

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mvd in Godfrey, Illinois

17 months ago

Scared for Rx in Brooklyn, New York said: Hello MVD, thanks for the advice you gave out in your replies. I am actually trying to secure employment in the areas that you mentioned previously.....I think I am on the right track since you confirmed those fields.....

As for prescribing privileges, I always thought it weird that pharmacists were the only health care providers that couldn't diagnose, prescribe AND administer meds. Maybe it was to maintain objectivity???? I don't know.

The time to push for these privileges was during the 80s and 90s, when pharmacy, as a whole, was strong. Now, the world of pharmacy is very fractured and thus weak. It's much too late to try to make the pharmacist a mid-level practitioner, especially now with the job market and schools popping up like weeds.

At this point, it's anyone's guess what will happen to pharmacy when the dust settles.

Best of luck to recent graduates.....stay strong and don't give up!


Hey Brooklyn-I have expanded my job search to pharmacy schools & pharmacy technician schools. I have found 5 openings in just 2 days of researching. Just wanted to throw it out there in case you haven't considered it yet.

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retail8 in exton, Pennsylvania

17 months ago

Scared for Rx in New York, New York said: With regards to students graduating with no experience -

I went to pharmacy school in a small state in New England that didn't have a pharmacy school before. When this new school opened, all the pharmacy jobs went into immediate LOCKDOWN! The only way you can get into working retail/ hospital in the state was if you transferred from whatever company you were working for as a tech OR if you had really, really good connections before.

There were many people in my class who had never worked in a pharmacy before and guess what? There are many students who didn't have job prospects lined up at graduation. And outside of IPPE/APPE rotations, they had no experience in pharmacy.

So to say for students to find work - it's a lot harder than that!

I believe in strength in numbers. If we band together, say on linkedin, and share our resources and contacts, we might be able to open up opportunities that are hidden from us. I am recently out of work, I was not fired, and have been looking for months. The same jobs are posted month after month, especially on Indeed. I have tried for everything and anything and have only had one interview. I know for a fact that in NJ and PA (except Pittsburgh and some other lesser populated cities) that it is saturated. In PA there are tons of grads waiting to be licensed and they, if lucky, are going to be floaters. Retail is your biggest chance. Hospitals, they won't even look at you if you haven't worked in one. If you want to, set up a linkedin. I am trying to get as many recruiter contacts as possible. Don't give up faith and email me with your progress if you wish.

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mvd in Godfrey, Illinois

17 months ago

Hello PA,
I am also frustrated by job boards that post the same jobs for months. If you can figure out what company it is then I have been going to their website to see if is an actual active opening. Count me in. Do you have a plan? I have expanded my search to positions that have historically gone to nurses but I see no reason you would need a nursing degree for a majority of these jobs.
MVD in STL

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retail8 in exton, Pennsylvania

17 months ago

mvd in Godfrey, Illinois said: Hello PA,
I am also frustrated by job boards that post the same jobs for months. If you can figure out what company it is then I have been going to their website to see if is an actual active opening. Count me in. Do you have a plan? I have expanded my search to positions that have historically gone to nurses but I see no reason you would need a nursing degree for a majority of these jobs.
MVD in STL

I have tried them all. Your best bet is to be friends with someone at the company. Pharma companies tend to hire friends of the workers. I am trying to expand my Linkedin, redone my resume (have a friend critique it), and beg. I know I will find a job and am fortunate to have savings. I will update my progress. In PA it is near impossible to get a job via the postings on the web. I have seen the same Omnicare jobs on the net for 5 months. Who is HR kidding?

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mvd in Godfrey, Illinois

17 months ago

retail8 in exton, Pennsylvania said: I have tried them all. Your best bet is to be friends with someone at the company. Pharma companies tend to hire friends of the workers. I am trying to expand my Linkedin, redone my resume (have a friend critique it), and beg. I know I will find a job and am fortunate to have savings. I will update my progress. In PA it is near impossible to get a job via the postings on the web. I have seen the same Omnicare jobs on the net for 5 months. Who is HR kidding?

I am on linkedin-email me & lets exchange info mvd5942@msn.com

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retail8 in exton, Pennsylvania

17 months ago

Have you tried contacting the local chain DMs for a PT or float position? I am looking for FT but the grads around here are so many that I don't stand a chance. I agree with the statement that pharmacy students should be aware of the lack of demand vs. supply. But it's just like teaching or law school. They still go in hopes of a job. I've known teacher grads who haven't worked in their field for years since they graduated. With lifetime pension (full salary) who would retire early? CVS's stock is almost 70 dollars. You would think they could hire extra pharmacists. Good luck on your book, I will look for it.

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fawadm79 in Hoboken, New Jersey

16 months ago

i just want to know why they are still giving out visas to foreign pharmacy grads ....there are no jobs for US grads

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

16 months ago

Regarding the above post. The chains and other business interests wants as many Pharmacists looking for jobs as they can get. They can pick and choose and also
offer lower salaries. Forget 100K Plus think 25 to 40/hr especially if the trend
of over supply continues. For them to do otherwise would be "Socialism" and we
all know how bad that is. (According to the Republicans)

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fawadm79 in Hoboken, New Jersey

16 months ago

i just applied to grace cottage hospital a no name hospital in the middle of vermont.....they thanked for my answers to their questionairre ....i temped at NYU i was never asked for a 12 page essay ......this is a staff rph position at no name acute care hospital ....thats how bad iti is

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Scared for Rx in Brooklyn, New York

16 months ago

fawadm79 in Hoboken, New Jersey said: i just applied to grace cottage hospital a no name hospital in the middle of vermont.....they thanked for my answers to their questionairre ....i temped at NYU i was never asked for a 12 page essay ......this is a staff rph position at no name acute care hospital ....thats how bad iti is

Fawadm79, I know about Grace Cottage Hospital as I went to pharm school in that very state! Email me at ScaredRx@draze.com for further information.

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desparatestudent in Los Angeles, California

16 months ago

I finished my first year of pharmacy school at USC, I am starting my second year. I have been job hunting since the first day of pharmacy school, I mean literally I called every single pharmacy (almost 800 pharmacies) , dropped my CV, faxed it, emailed, went door to door, contacted all intern coordinators from chain pharmacies.I was even looking for a job during our finals week. No luck. This is a sinking ship, I can't find an internship. Help me, I feel like I am losing my sanity in this job search. I am so disappointed after hearing all these sad commentaries. Any help is appreciated.

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retail8 in exton, Pennsylvania

16 months ago

desparatestudent in Los Angeles, California said: I finished my first year of pharmacy school at USC, I am starting my second year. I have been job hunting since the first day of pharmacy school, I mean literally I called every single pharmacy (almost 800 pharmacies) , dropped my CV, faxed it, emailed, went door to door, contacted all intern coordinators from chain pharmacies.I was even looking for a job during our finals week. No luck. This is a sinking ship, I can't find an internship. Help me, I feel like I am losing my sanity in this job search. I am so disappointed after hearing all these sad commentaries. Any help is appreciated.

Have you asked around for the independents? Maybe offer to work for minimum wage so that at least you can get your hours. And to anyone reading who is thinking about pharmacy school, don't do it. Get out, find another major. The job market won't fix not even in ten years. Oversaturated worse than lawyers and teachers. To those who work two jobs as rphs, please consider what you are doing to those rphs who have no jobs. Do you really need that extra 20 to 30k especially when your spouse also works? There are a lot of people who would be happy to even work 20 to 30 hrs a week. Let's not be greedy.

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desparatestudent in Los Angeles, California

16 months ago

I called every single independent pharmacy within 50 miles from the place I live. Currently I am doing an unpaid internship to just get my hours. It makes me cry. They know that the economy is bad and fortunately for them they take advantage of that.

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Scared for Rx in Brooklyn, New York

16 months ago

desparatestudent in Los Angeles, California said: I called every single independent pharmacy within 50 miles from the place I live. Currently I am doing an unpaid internship to just get my hours. It makes me cry. They know that the economy is bad and fortunately for them they take advantage of that.

Dear desperatestudent:

I graduated in May of 2013, and therefore offer you insight from my own experience. If you do not get a paid internship within your P1-P2 years, you can pretty much kiss retail goodbye. The retail giants recruit interns during those years and 9 times out of 10 those interns worked as techs before going to pharmacy school. I know this bc I emailed a CVS intern coordinator for the Northeast and they told me that they don't recruit after the P2 year. If CVS is like this, I can guarantee all the other retail giants are like this.

With regards to California: I suggest to you start looking into dual degree programs or start seriously considering leaving pharmacy school before you get too much into debt. California is slated to open more pharmacy schools within the next 4 years or sooner! With an endless supply of free IPPE/APPE interns, paid internships have literally been destroyed hence the situation you find yourself in desparatestudent. As for hospital, it's the same situation but now all hospitals are requiring residencies. However, state medicaid and medicare agencies are BANKRUPT! Many hospitals are on life support and are on the brink of closing. Whichever hospitals are still standing, TRUST me they are going to try their best to retain those who bring more to the table such as doctors, nurses and PAs. Pharmacists are easily disposable as we CANNOT prescribe, diagnose, and administer meds.

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Scared for Rx in Brooklyn, New York

16 months ago

desparatestudent in Los Angeles, California said: I called every single independent pharmacy within 50 miles from the place I live. Currently I am doing an unpaid internship to just get my hours. It makes me cry. They know that the economy is bad and fortunately for them they take advantage of that.

Part 2

And to add insult to injury, many so called "clinical pharmacists" and faculty from many of these schools work per diem in retail. Why? They need vacation money or money to buy gifts, cars, etc. In other words, they are GREEDY! With all of this going on, you can see why you are not getting a paid internship.

This is good for the companies, but the students have been left to defend for themselves. Of course, if you know some people high up the food chain that can "hook you up", then everything I mentioned previously doesn't apply to you.

So my advice to you desperatestudent: if you still want to do medicine, GET OUT NOW! Take the MCAT for allopathic or osteopathic schools of medicine or go into the other allied health professions like PA or nursing, etc. But beware, do research on job availability for these professions before taking the plunge.

Do that or switch majors or do a dual degree.

The old model of pharmacy is dead!

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desparatestudent in Los Angeles, California

16 months ago

I already changed my career goal once, so this becomes really depressing. I was a pre-law student, after hearing all the rumor about unemployment rate among Law School graduates, I changed into pre-pharm. Are you doing inpatient and outpatient, scared Rx?

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Scared for Rx in Brooklyn, New York

16 months ago

desparatestudent in Los Angeles, California said: I already changed my career goal once, so this becomes really depressing. I was a pre-law student, after hearing all the rumor about unemployment rate among Law School graduates, I changed into pre-pharm. Are you doing inpatient and outpatient, scared Rx?

Hello Desparate student:

I am doing neither as I live in NYC, and it's literally scorched earth on the entire eastern seaboard (that's what the recruiters say, but I know it's BS). I am currently looking for a job that doesn't require licensing as I am scheduled to take the NAPLEX and MPJE next month. I am desparate too as I tried for the last 4 years to get an internship (paid/unpaid) in my school's state (not NY). Those jobs magically stopped being posted online. I have clinical experience prior to pharmacy school (medical assistant) but that does not mean squat in the world of pharmacy. Thinking back, maybe I should have stayed as an assistant.......

If you have any more questions about pharmacy email me privately at scaredrx@draze.com where we can discuss some alternative options for you.

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desparatestudent in Los Angeles, California

16 months ago

Thank you scared Rx for trying to help me out.

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Scared for Rx in Brooklyn, New York

16 months ago

desparatestudent in Los Angeles, California said: Thank you scared Rx for trying to help me out.

No problem.

Sounds like you are going to go through with pharmacy despite everything.

Here's what you need to do:

1) Join APhA and go to midyear/regional EVERY YEAR and look at their career fairs there. Retail, big pharma and other Pharmacy specialties recruit there.

2) Pick IPPE/APPE rotations that are not your "run of the mill" pharmacy rotations (i.e. where pharmacists are more than dispensers of medications). Those are your secret markets you want to tap into before your classmates gain word of it. As to which ones you want to look out for, I cannot say on a public forum as those may become saturated virtually overnight!

3) During your rotations, NETWORK!!! Word of advice: when it comes to clinical rotations network with nurses, physicians, medical/nursing/PA students, ANYONE! Just don't limit yourself to networking with pharmacists b/c it was my experience that the pharmacists were not helpful at all as they see rotating Pharm.D. candidates as future competition for THEIR jobs! (Can't say I blame them!)

4) If you can, learn a second language as this can open up immense opportunities. Take your student loan refunds and invest in the rosetta stone or a foreign language class. If you can't afford the time, do it on weekends.

That is your survival guide for the next 3 years you have left in pharmacy school.

5) Start looking into doing fellowships. As to which ones: see point #2.

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desparatestudent in Los Angeles, California

16 months ago

This is a very sophisticated advice. I will email you tonight so that you can elaborate a little on #2 .

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mph0172 in Virginia Beach, Virginia

16 months ago

I'm trying desperately to find a job- even if lick and stick in the greater DC area (near Winchester/ Leesburg, VA). Sadly enough, I followed my husband on military orders overseas. I had a great job in retail, and prior to that had held positions in long term care, consulting, and a year of hospital experience. Now that we've move back to the US, the market has changed dramatically. Why are they opening so darn many pharmacy schools? The market is flooded, as mentioned, especially in the urban areas, and overflow has already begun to fill rural areas. I regret my career choice in pharmacy now, (as much as I regret marrying someone in the military). I feel completely stuck, without a job, and frustrated. If you're a student considering pharmacy school, do yourself a favor and reconsider other options. Please! I second all the frustrated pharmacists out there who are taking pay cuts and jumping through hoops just to maintain their career. I'd love to understand why this is happening in our profession though. Baby boomers or not, the number of pharmacy schools is rising way too fast for the demand. Take it from those of us who can't get work.

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Scared for Rx in Brooklyn, New York

16 months ago

mph0172 in Virginia Beach, Virginia said: I'm trying desperately to find a job- even if lick and stick in the greater DC area (near Winchester/ Leesburg, VA). Sadly enough, I followed my husband on military orders overseas. I had a great job in retail, and prior to that had held positions in long term care, consulting, and a year of hospital experience. Now that we've move back to the US, the market has changed dramatically. Why are they opening so darn many pharmacy schools? The market is flooded, as mentioned, especially in the urban areas, and overflow has already begun to fill rural areas. I regret my career choice in pharmacy now, (as much as I regret marrying someone in the military). I feel completely stuck, without a job, and frustrated. If you're a student considering pharmacy school, do yourself a favor and reconsider other options. Please! I second all the frustrated pharmacists out there who are taking pay cuts and jumping through hoops just to maintain their career. I'd love to understand why this is happening in our profession though. Baby boomers or not, the number of pharmacy schools is rising way too fast for the demand. Take it from those of us who can't get work.

Got news for you MPH0172, I think another school of pharmacy is slated to open (or already opened) in the DMV area. Another school will open its doors in NJ. Those students are going to most likely compete for whatever is left on the eastern seaboard of the U.S. I am literally speechless.

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mvd in Godfrey, Illinois

16 months ago

Speaking of entrepreneurial spirit, I have been thinking about this since my father's health started failing. I have worked in a hospital for 25 years and it continually saddens me that patients are often at the mercy of their healthcare professionals. When my father is hospitalized, I am responsible for explaining the information to my family and convey their questions to the appropriate HCP. It is a very time consuming task for me (proficient in most aspects of hospital/medical care) and I can't even imagine the process for someone not in the field. Many people do not even know that right questions to ask. If the patient & the patient's family had one person they could bring all their concerns and that person would gather the information and relay it to the correct person. There is a huge disconnect between inpatient & outpatient. Almost no primary care mds see their patients when they are hospitalized, not including the hit or miss with actually speaking to a md. Nursing isn't a constant either. Once they are discharged, they start with a whole new team of HCP. IDK, I haven't thought it all out yet, like how to monetize the service.
Any thoughts?

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