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Scared for Rx in Brooklyn, New York

19 months ago

@ Kaycee

I graduated this past May. If you are in a major metropolitan city, you will have to MOVE unless you have the patience of a saint and wait it out in the metropolis for a job to open up. Be prepared to travel anywhere from 1-2 hrs. from the city to work. And be prepared to deal with fickle recruiters and hiring managers.

One thing you need to consider: by the time you graduate, more schools would have graduated their 1st, 2nd, 3rd classes across the nation. That will be your competition for not only internships but pharmacist jobs as well. As a recent graduate I can tell you that many rural areas are now saturated due to the spillover from the cities. If you have connections on the executive end then you will be fine........

The next 1-5 years in the world of pharmacy is going to be a tough one not only for new graduates but for seasoned pharmacists with years of experience under their belt. The schools, the boards of pharmacy, retail giants and hospitals BLEW it. Not only that, but you are going to have to deal with foreign trained pharmacists as well. It's a nightmare. I live in NYC and can't relocate due to circumstances beyond my control. Trust me when I say NYC is scorched earth. Actually all of the east coast is a fight. With the job market this tight, don't count on your classmates as they are all fighting for the same position. Think the pharmacy version of "The Hunger Games". I kid you not.

I saw the writing on the wall as I was doing my final year rotations. That's when I started to freak. Hospitals are cracking down on their limited budgets. Retail is like a water balloon about to pop. Seriously, if you decide to go through with pharmacy you need a serious game plan before you enroll in pharmacy school.

My advice to you Kaycee: do not go to pharmacy school.

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flrph in miami, Florida

19 months ago

Florida has few RPh jobs to offer. If you're over 50yo you have outlived your BS degree and will be extremely lucky to get any job. The job market changed about 10 years ago. Walgreens went to central fill and downsized putting a lot of RPh on the curb looking for work. This was combined about the same time with new schools releasing the first grads. Overnight there were 10 applicants for every job. It's worse now.
Example: Making $116k/yr in 2004 CVS gave me $20k to take a store in the Fl. Keys for 2 years. In 2006 they gave me another $20k to stay in that store. In 2008 they said we don't offer incentives anymore. In 2010 I was terminated along with 8 other RPhs (7 stores) within 18 months just in the Fl. Keys and Homestead. Fl area. All of us 45-65 yo. We were replaced by new grads being paid 25% less and no incentives. BYE BYE AMERICAN PIE! The pharmacy party is OVER.
Today I work for a BIG BOX store at the same hourly rate as in 2006 BUT full time hours are not assigned. EVER! I average about 32 hours a week after 18 months on the job. I'm lucky to get those. Some only get 15-20. The company relocates folks from up north with promise of full time then screws them when they get here.
DO NOT GO TO PHARMACY SCHOOL unless its for some education other than to dispense. Industry maybe. Otherwise engineering is where the money is now.

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

It is great to see so many of explaining the horrific conditions we face, we need to get the word out to the general public. It is very hard to explain are work to anybody that's not a pharmacist. We need to contact major news to ask them to run special show on this, ex. 20/20 dateline talk shows. Write to any and all to get are voices heard. We now know that every pharmacy organization and college is just as bad as the retail giants. Let's turn this ship around. Even the government job outlook handbook has the prediction of pharmacists needed wrong. Keep posting here, but write to major news outlets even if you do as anonymous

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Nicole Grimmer in Chicago, Illinois

19 months ago

Hi everyone!

I agree with the spirit of this conversation in that the new colleges of pharmacy, expanding class sizes, and addition of satellites are constricting our job market even further and our new graduates do not have the opportunities to find work. The purpose of ACPE, ASHP, APhA, and other organizations is not to police this, however, as much as they may be opposed to it, as evidenced by the 2011 statement quoted by Jonathan. I know that pharmacists at the national level are very concerned with this growth, as evidenced by the numerous open forum and house of delegates discussions on this topic over the past years, but as long as these new colleges are able to show that they can provide quality education and have IPPE/APPE sites for their students, ACPE's accreditation standards have been met.

As disheartening as this is, I think Jackie's point is well-made. We need to use this expanding workforce to help expand our role in the healthcare system. Jobs in hospitals are constricted, yes, and they will likely not expand to include more opportunities for us in the future, so we need to focus our efforts and the interest of our new grads to other opportunities. Ambulatory care is expanding and community health is changing. The role of the pharmacist is becoming further removed from dispensing and community pharmacy residencies are expanding to meet this new niche. This was discussed in depth at ASHP's policy week last year, and I believe that a stronger push is coming to encourage increasing accountability for patient care in the retail arena.

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Nicole Grimmer in Chicago, Illinois

19 months ago

Additionally, although there are concerns with these new colleges of pharmacy, they do provide further faculty positions for practicing pharmacists. As was pointed out above, the positions available may be outside of a large city. I receive a number of emails each month from my alma mater regarding open positions for pharmacists in rural areas.

Yes, there is a saturated job market and, yes, the new colleges are not hel

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Nicole Grimmer in Chicago, Illinois

19 months ago

Yes, there is a saturated job market and, yes, the new colleges are not helping the situation, but there is not a single entity that has the right to tell the schools that they cannot open, unless there is proof that accreditation standards will not be met. Therefore, we as the workforce should attempt to expand our role as clinical pharmacists and increase the number of jobs available by exploring new avenues for patient care, expanding current practice, and encouraging new graduates to be open-minded about pursuing opportunities in areas with greater demand - be that geographically or in relation to the job description.

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

Nicole, you right, this is a free market to open up as many schools as you want. What we are asking is that the truth of the current market conditions be told to the public. These students and parents paying large amounts of money need to know what to expect. As for expanding the role of pharmacist, that is great but we have been trying to do that for 30 years. Would be nice if we just had the time to safely do our current job

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

19 months ago

We have been talking about expanded roles for pharmacists for 30 to 40 years. There are
many academic models for how this will work and students leave pharmacy school expecting their job to be clinical in nature. A few days at CVS or any chain brings them the reality of true pharmacy practice. Now they are responsible for filling 3 to 4 hundred or more scripts and council patients, give flu shots etc. The missing part of the equation is the fact that no one is willing to pay for the service. With the financial pressures facing healthcare it is unlikely to change for the better.

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

Great response!

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Rx Veteran in Maryland

19 months ago

"we need to get the word out to the general public. It is very hard to explain are work to anybody that's not a pharmacist. We need to contact major news to ask them to run special show on this, ex. 20/20 dateline talk shows."

I agree we need a sting type operation. Go to twenty pharmacies with a proventil/propranolol rx... See how many stop it. The highlight the entire lack of patient care focus and how people will die.

Should be interesting.

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Nicole Grimmer in Chicago, Illinois

19 months ago

Who said Retail wasn't doing much to expand on pharmaceutical care? Just hot from the press:

MinuteClinic, Baptist Health Care form clinical affiliation

SEPTEMBER 19, 2013 | BY ANTOINETTE ALEXANDER
Related Content

WOONSOCKET, R.I. and PENSACOLA, Fla. — CVS Caremark’s MinuteClinic and Baptist Health Care, the largest healthcare network in northwest Florida with a staff of more than 600 physicians, has entered into a clinical affiliation to enhance access to healthcare services in Escambia, Okaloosa and Santa Rosa counties.

Under the agreement, Baptist Health Care physicians will serve as medical directors for four MinuteClinic walk-in medical clinics inside select CVS/pharmacy stores in Cantonment, Crestview, Gulf Breeze and Niceville, and any future locations in the region. In addition, MinuteClinic and Baptist will collaborate on patient education and disease management initiatives and will inform patients of the services each offer.

"Through this affiliation, we can build on Baptist Health Care's 60-year tradition of compassionate care in Northwest Florida by creating more convenient access to high quality medical services in the community," stated Andrew Sussman, president of MinuteClinic and SVP/associate chief medical officer at CVS Caremark. "We look forward to having Baptist Health Care physicians collaborate with MinuteClinic nurse practitioners to provide quality oversight, teaching and back-up so MinuteClinic can provide the best care at the lowest overall cost for patients and employers."

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Nicole Grimmer in Chicago, Illinois

19 months ago

"At Baptist Health Care, we continuously explore opportunities to better serve patients by providing easy-to-access quality care in our community," added Brian Matson, Baptist Health Care SVP and chief strategy and business development officer. "Our affiliation with CVS helps us achieve that. We are pleased to be able to form affiliations with well-respected national organizations to improve the quality of health for those we serve while remaining the area's only locally-owned not-for-profit healthcare system."

MinuteClinic and Baptist Health Care will begin to work toward fully integrating electronic medical record systems to streamline communication around all aspects of each individual's care. With patient permission, MinuteClinic will electronically share medical histories and visit summaries with other Baptist Health Care locations in northwest Florida. In the meantime, MinuteClinic will continue its standard practice of sending patient visit summaries to primary care providers via fax or mail, typically within 24 hours, with patient consent.

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retail8 in take a guess, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

@Nicole, I have been to Minute Clinics and have not had a great experience. Sick as a dog, waited over 1/2 hour just for four people (an entire family) to check in to the computer (didn't speak English). By the time it was my turn, the NP loudly announced she was going on lunch for an hour (it was 11:50 am) and to come back in 2 hours. I told her I was going to the local express doctor center (staffed only by doctors not NPs) and did so. I was waited on promptly and got meds too. My only other experience was taking a friend to Minute Clinic who had the flu at the time. The NP there said that she had something else and refused to give my friend medicine even for the nasty cough they had. That friend went to a doctor, got medicine and felt better. Minute Clinics are a joke. Oh, and there are still no jobs out there in the East unless someone dies or you know someone on a first name basis. Do not go for a PharmD degree unless you want to graduate without a job.

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

Nicole, do you really think cvs cares about anything but money? What is your experience as a pharmacist? In the pharmacy world, if it don't make money it don't make sense.

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Nicole Grimmer in Chicago, Illinois

19 months ago

I see your point. I will reconsider and say many retail pharmacists would prefer not to get involved in enhancing their clinical role in patient care and take on more accountability. I have worked in the retail setting both as a pharmacist and technician in many different pharmacies throughout the country (mostly as relief RPh). I could tell within an hour whether the regular pharmacist at that store was engaged or not. Many were not. I say let's look at those who are engaged. Why were they? Where were they? What states? What cities? Who did they work for? How has the board helped? Did MTM get adopted? Could any of it be translated to the inpatient side?

MD and RN support is awesome and I am proud of what many of us have accomplished. I believe, though, that patients are still an untapped and more fruitful area for improvement. Senior admin (and the government) is focusing more and more on patient satisfaction surveys. Where are we on those surveys? How can we be a part of those surveys? What if the patient expected a pharmacist be present for their care in the hospital. What if they listed us (or the lack of) on their survey. The CFOs, not the MDs or RNs, have the money and the C-suite would move if patients' expectations changed. Remember that right now, your job is determined, in the CFO's mind, by number of prescriptions filled/hour.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

19 months ago

Until we can define and quantify "clinical pharmacy", or "Pharmaceutical Care" and get
patients and payers (insurance companies) to accept and pay for it doesn't really exist.
Suppose every busy chain had a dispensing team of highly trained tech's and at the
end of the line a pharmacist would give that final check and then offer the extra value
that we all talk about of "Pharmaceutical care" for say 5 dollars (inaddition to the
rx price or co-pay). I doubt patients would want that and it would make us think about
just how much value this really has. Now we can give it for free all day long. Who can
blame the chain CEO for putting more value on the number of scripts we fill than knowledge we impart to the patient. Our basic responsibility is to get the right drug in
the bottle and to hopefully detect any drug interactions or improper doses. What else
is there that we could expect to charge for? I am not a enemy of pharmacy. I worked at a great part-time hospital job for 25 years with a great boss. Pharmacist would be good at running diabetic, or hypertension support clinics but so would nurses or PA's. That can't be the answer for employment of all these excess pharmacist being churned out today.

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mvd in Godfrey, Illinois

19 months ago

I have been a hospital pharmacist for many years. The hospital setting is starting and will continue to shrink. I have always thought that pharmacist would be really good at basically doing what dedicated clinical pharmacists do but it would involve having access to all patient data (MD notes, vitals, labs, diagnostic test results, etc...) There is no one better to take all of this data to determine more cost effective therapies and to measure outcomes and compliance. This is what I did everyday. I had an average of >$120.00/hr cost saving/avoidance. If patients had comprehensive medication reviews(similar to LTC) at least monthly and could be shown improvement in symptoms, number of meds, cost of meds, quality of life, etc...The pharmacist would be removed from the dispensing function and have a purely clinical role. Hospitals are starting to partner with community pharmacist to ensure their patients are not readmitted for exacerbations of chronic conditions for at least 31 days. Pharmacists are perfectly positioned to fulfill the roles. The healthcare model is trending toward massive outpatient care and patient's medical home (integrated care). It is my hope, once this goes mainstream, that community pharmacists will have complete access to patient medical information to make informed interventions and improve quality and decrease cost of care.

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mvd in Godfrey, Illinois

19 months ago

I just was contacted by a recruiter for a lead clinical position in the Quad cities (is that Iowa?). Anyone interested? They are looking for solid clinical experience and/or a residency. If interested the recruiter's email is crjsearch@sbcglobal.net and his name is Mark Marshall

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new grad 13 in tampa, Florida

19 months ago

I just graduated in 2013, all these stories are true, actually they are exponentially worse. My hours that were agreed at my retail employer were cut the day i was licensed. I have been with this giant 3 letter red company for years. I float now. They company expected me to be licensed to immunize right out the door, since it took 3 weeks, i was told i would be taken off the schedule till i could immunize. I work at good stores and bad stores, good help and bad help. Im 6 figures in debt with no solution but to work as hard as i can and live as cheaply as possible to be debt free. Many speak of working 80 hour weeks but that is not possible any more, there are no hours, no part time jobs, I really dont know what is going to happen to new grads. My district manager has told me he has stopped hiring interns and in parts of the state they have refused to promote interns to pharmacists. i can truelly say the $hit has hit the fan people,

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retail8 in take a guess, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

new grad 13 in tampa, Florida said: I just graduated in 2013, all these stories are true, actually they are exponentially worse. My hours that were agreed at my retail employer were cut the day i was licensed. I have been with this giant 3 letter red company for years. I float now. They company expected me to be licensed to immunize right out the door, since it took 3 weeks, i was told i would be taken off the schedule till i could immunize. I work at good stores and bad stores, good help and bad help. Im 6 figures in debt with no solution but to work as hard as i can and live as cheaply as possible to be debt free. Many speak of working 80 hour weeks but that is not possible any more, there are no hours, no part time jobs, I really dont know what is going to happen to new grads. My district manager has told me he has stopped hiring interns and in parts of the state they have refused to promote interns to pharmacists. i can truelly say the $hit has hit the fan people,

I am sorry about your situation. Words of advice...you have a job and from I've seen, most new grads are made floaters or overnight rphs. The help sucks pretty much everywhere and some of them will try to get you fired. I lost my job in the beginning of the year. Only one interview, no job. It is very very bad out there. Hang onto the job and get yourself some connections to try to get into pharma or medical writing or even consider hospital pharmacy. I cannot relocate due to family issues but there are jobs in remote areas. Job openings exist but they are not published. I have found out about one yesterday via word of mouth. When you call for copies, ask the pharmacist about openings and for their DM's email. Good luck and I am praying for all the underemployed and unemployed individuals out there. It is going to get worse.

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Jenny in Bradenton, Florida

19 months ago

Why don't we pharmacists Unionize? Chicago is not going through this. They are in the Union and this BS wouldn't fly there.

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

I agree unions are the only way to go now

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Jenny in Bradenton, Florida

19 months ago

You would think with Unions enrollment down, they would be jumping on this. I don't think there are too many Pharmacists that wouldn't jump at the chance to join.

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Thomas Carrigan in Denver, Colorado

19 months ago

new grad 13 in tampa, Florida said: I just graduated in 2013 ... My hours ... were cut. I float now.

Thanks for sharing your story. It sounds like you're a retail parttime floater. I know that's not what you wanted, but it's a stepping stone to where you want to be. Enjoy your days off. And position yourself to move onto something better. As a floater you'll get to network with more pharmacists. I agree with everything 'retail8' said four posts above mine. And it would be nice to have an update from you in a couple months... Good luck.

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mvd in Godfrey, Illinois

19 months ago

Really, pharmacists are unionized in Chicago? I need to find out about that. More info needed.

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Scared for Rx in New York, New York

19 months ago

I am a recent graduate and I feel confident enough to say it seems that pharmacy is always years behind the other health professions. Nurses have been unionized since forever. Pharmacists that work in hospitals in NYC were ahead of the times by demanding to join a union. Retail is another monster altogether. It will take the strength of Jesus and all the saints in heaven for retail pharmacists to join together to demand unionization.

Why?

Over the last 2 decades many pharmacists got extremely "cushy" with their 6 figure salaries. Which is well and good. But during that time frame I am positive many pharmacists saw the trend of what was taking place but said "Oh well, as long as I have my checks and my house(s). I don't care." Some pharmacists that found niche markets outside of retail/hospital have developed a rather "elitist" attitude (I am so great nothing can phase me b/c I made it out of retail/hospital).

Guess what honeys, pharmacy like all other markets MUST follow the law of supply & demand.

Unions are the way to go. But unfortunately, pharmacy, as a whole, is extremely disjointed. Hospital pharmacists have a tendency to scoff at retail pharmacists and vice versa. Residency trained pharmacists scoff at staff pharmacists. Retail pharmacists scoff at interns trying to make it. During my 6th year rotations, this was not the case with medical doctors, nurses, and PAs (those guys stick together and network with each other!) It was my experience that everyone in my class have thrown somebody under the bus at some point.

The only way this corrects itself is with the eventual closing of schools. I think I read somewhere on this forum that dentistry went through the same thing pharmacy is going through back in the 1970s. The market eventually corrected itself and the ADA too steps to regulate supply and demand.

I wish everyone the best of luck with everything.

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Jenny in Bradenton, Florida

19 months ago

www.teamsterslocal727.org/cvs.html

I read somewhere that they pay $600 a year for dues.

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

Wouldn't you love to see your director of pharmacy work a Monday at your store.

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Jenny in Bradenton, Florida

19 months ago

I would love it! Or how about the day after a holiday? LOL

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

Great post

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Jen in Bradenton, Florida

19 months ago

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Rx Veteran in Maryland

19 months ago

"Over the last 2 decades many pharmacists got extremely "cushy" with their 6 figure salaries. Which is well and good. But during that time frame I am positive many pharmacists saw the trend of what was taking place but said "Oh well, as long as I have my checks and my house(s). I don't care."

You are flat wrong. The last time I worked for 9 years straight. I heard about one new Rx school the last year. I didn't hear about the other one in my state until I was on sabbatical in 2010. Only then did I find out about the market saturation.

We never needed unions because we were respected, treated well, and took good care of patients. I left when help became scarce and the store manager deliberately removed my help for 3 days. He insulted me. Told me to "suck it up." Closed the Rx and walked out.

We do need a union but only employed pharmacists should join. I'm not going to generate $600 for union fees until I could get a job and corporate respect for my contribution to profits.

It breaks my heart about the destruction to our profession. Let's consider visiting the archives on how the dental profession fixed it's issues.

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Dontbelieveit in Crazyhorse, Indiana

19 months ago

If pharmacists organize, maybe other sectors of healthcare that are being worked like slave labor will, too.

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

Everybody should mention this forum to other pharmacists when you speak to them. The more people that post the better chance for a resolution. Joining this forum is better for your career than joining one of the pharmacy organization.

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Nicole Grimmer in Chicago, Illinois

19 months ago

Kiplinger magazine ranks pharmacy as best college degree for lucrative career

Nursing, pharmacy lead in low mid-career unemployment rates
SEPTEMBER 24, 2013 | BY ALARIC DEARMENT

NEW YORK — For job security and good salary growth, become a pharmacist or nurse. That's the message from a recent ranking of the most lucrative college majors in Kiplinger magazine.

According to the magazine, pharmacy and pharmaceutical sciences majors "graduate into a welcoming job market," with an average starting salary of $42,100 per year and mid-career salary of $120,000. Mid-career unemployment rates are a low 2.5%, and job growth is projected at 36.4%.

In terms of low unemployment rates, pharmacy majors are second only to nursing majors. Nurses, Kiplinger reported, start at $54,100 per year, with mid-career salaries of $70,200, 2.3% mid-career unemployment rates and 26% projected job growth.

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

Nicole, you have obviously had a enjoyable pharmacy career and have a positive outlook on the current and future status of the profession. You are in minority. The title of this forum tells it all. This is the reality for most. We are trying to tell you that there is a huge surplus of pharmacists. You can reference anything you want that says otherwise and we are not going to read it. Call us what you want for doing so but we are the majority. What is your motive for getting on this forum? Most that are here are upset about their career.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

19 months ago

I had lunch yesterday with a pharmacist friend who just retired because he couldn't take it anymore. He worked for a large food store chain. They had one pharmacist on duty per 13 hour shift. During the evening after closing people would call in refills so when he showed up for work he was already behind sometimes over 100 refills behind. So he routinely came in a hour early (without pay) just to get caught up before the pharmacy opened. During a typical busy day he would fill 700 scripts and give 10 to 20 flu shots. In Tenn counseling patients is required by law so the tech would ask the patient if they wanted to talk with the pharmacist most said no and they then signed for their Rx which was actually signing that refused drug counseling. If 700 people got 60 seconds of drug counseling that is 12 hours of the 13 hour day leaving a hour for filling/checking, bathroom etc. That is the good news the bad news is good jobs like this are getting impossible to find.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

19 months ago

Someone mentioned dentistry and how they overcame problems similar to pharmacy. I graduated pharmacy school in 1977 and dental school in 1981. Dentistry never experienced anything like the over supply facing pharmacy. There may have been a brief oversupply which was mostly geographic with cities having an excess. The other big issue at that time was the 20% prime interest rate making practice start-up loans unaffordable. Rural areas have always been under served so opportunities are always there. Also over 50% of people don't see a dentist regularily but sooner or later they must. A big demand is always there to treat this type of patient but it is not the super lucrative practice most dentist want. That same pharmacist I had lunch with in the above post has a son who just entered dental practice about four years ago. He said he made 1.8 million last year which I assumed was gross so with a 50% overhead that leaves 900 thousand.

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Jen in Bradenton, Florida

19 months ago

I wonder who is paying them to make claims like that???? It's probably the boards or the pharmacy schools that are putting out those talking points. We know that Pharmacy is not a top career any longer. Those days are long gone thanks to the very people who were supposed to be advocates for Pharmacists.

Current Pharmacists are getting pushed out by the 24 yr old new grads willing to take a major cut in pay so they can pay back their 200K in student loans. Meanwhile those 24 yr olds will be pushed out by robotics in 10 yrs.

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

Nicole, sounds to me that you have been a pharmacist for less than 6 months. Please report back us in a year or two.

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

It's 'don't hate the player, hate the game'. It also sounds to me that you think all retail pharmacist are doing nothing to improve their career. The system will correct itself just like law school is right now. These new schools will be closing their doors in 5 years. 39% of schools are going to or have already made it a 8 year program.

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Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

19 months ago

And I don't want you to leave the forum, your opinion matters just as much as mine. I think it's great you want to improve the profession. I hope you make a difference. Many pharmacists would love see a residency for the working pharmacists, even if it took triple the time of standard. I would like to try infusion pharmacy. If a company would train me on off day I would do it for free. No such thing. I don't hate on others in pharmacy that have fulfilling jobs I just want them to understand where I am coming from and the current conditions many of us face. It is very difficult to simply stop working and do a residency.

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Rx Veteran in Maryland

19 months ago

@Nicole " I will report back personally to you in a year or two AFTER I finish my PGY2 and then get my nice cushy job as a faculty. With so many pharmacy schools opening up, there is just so many opportunities to teach in these schools."

An ethical problem bothers me? How can academia (you,Nicole) actively lie to students about their job outlook? Your hoped for cushy job is financed by loans that most students will not be able to repay. What about that?

It's not your writing content that bothers me. It's the condescending attitude you convey. I can document the moon is made out of green cheese. That does not make it so. The frame before this, stated Rx salaries in my area are $75K. That's down $35K in 3 years.

You have the right to your opinion, but the salary data proves you wrong. You are correct academia will have openings. My ethics will not allow me to steal money from students who will never be able to pay it off. Do yours???

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

19 months ago

Nicole Grimmer in Chicago, Illinois said: Kiplinger magazine ranks pharmacy as best college degree for lucrative career

Nursing, pharmacy lead in low mid-career unemployment rates
SEPTEMBER 24, 2013 | BY ALARIC DEARMENT

NEW YORK — For job security and good salary growth, become a pharmacist or nurse. That's the message from a recent ranking of the most lucrative college majors in Kiplinger magazine.

According to the magazine, pharmacy and pharmaceutical sciences majors "graduate into a welcoming job market," with an average starting salary of $42,100 per year and mid-career salary of $120,000. Mid-career unemployment rates are a low 2.5%, and job growth is projected at 36.4%.

Didn't anyone notice how outdated the above numbers are? When did pharmacists start out making 42,000 per year? Maybe 1985. When did mid career pharmacist make three times more? Never. In pharmacy experience means you are old, set in your ways, hard to intimidate and basically a undesirable. Its the younger ones they want. Why pay some old "experienced" person more? That is the guy you need to find some excuse to fire.

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Jen in Bradenton, Florida

19 months ago

Obviously the author is clueless. 36.4% growth? Where did she pull that number from? The pay numbers stated are riduculous.

Pharmacy used to be a respected field and now every pharmacy (retail) I walk into has a 24 yr old girl as the RPh. How is that going to work out when these girls start to want to have kids? There is no balance with male/female numbers anymore.

Experience doesn't come from books, it comes from years of dealing with problems, issues, patients health concerns,etc.

I am a woman and yet I can tell you that I feel it is doing a disservice to patients to hire all these young, female pharmacists. If I had a concern to discuss with my pharmacist, I sure don't want some squeaky voiced 24 or 25 yr old girl with ear buds in, as the one I have to go to.

At the Target by my house, there is a RPh that sounds like a dolphin. She and her "buddy" technicians stand behind the counter, all lined up, giggling and making clicking noises like dolphins. I can be 4 aisles over and I can still hear them. It's riduclous and beyond unprofessional. The RPh is probably 24.

With age comes expereince and I doubt anyone would walk in and hope to find some 20 something yr old Dr to do their heart surgery, etc. Why have the standards in Pharmacy dropped so much?

40+ men need to stand together and bring this age discrimination to the attention of the the Gov. If you get fired after years of getting good reviews,etc. bring it to the attention the EOE. They will be able to direct you where to call for assistance. The other thing is document everything. These Directors/supervisors need to be held accountable.

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Liu Datdong in Covina

19 months ago

Doomsday for PharmD Grads Or Alarmist Over-Reaction?
by George Ochoa
By 2018, 20% of new pharmacy graduates will enter a job market that has no positions for them, according to a top education expert. However dire such a crisis may appear, experts interviewed by Pharmacy Practice News disputed this finding.
In a commentary in the American Journal of Pharmaceutical Education (AJPE 2013;77:90; doi: 10.5688/ajpe77590), Daniel L. Brown, PharmD, the director of faculty development at the Center for Teaching Excellence, and a professor of pharmacy practice at the Lloyd L. Gregory School of Pharmacy, Palm Beach Atlantic University, in West Palm Beach, Fla., based his bleak jobs forecast on an analysis of trends in pharmacy employment and pharmacy education.

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Liu Datdong in Covina

19 months ago

In 2001, “the pharmacy academy began a period of unprecedented growth, fueled by a long-standing shortage of pharmacists and an outstanding job market for new pharmacy graduates,” Dr. Brown wrote. New colleges and schools of pharmacy opened, and existing programs expanded. As a result, the number of new PharmD graduates is expected to reach about 15,000 annually by 2018 (compared with 7,000 in 2001), according to Dr. Brown. However, the job market for pharmacists is not keeping pace, and by his estimate, will accommodate only about 10,000 to 12,000 new pharmacists per year. Hence, by 2018, 3,000 graduates (20%) per year will not find employment in their field. “I don’t believe there currently is a need for more pharmacists,” Dr. Brown told Pharmacy Practice News. “I think the pipeline we’ve already got is more than enough.”

Projections Don’t Equal Outcomes

In a commentary in the same issue of AJPE (2013;77:91; doi: 10.5688/ajpe77591), Katherine Knapp, PhD, and Jon C. Schommer, PhD, responded to Dr. Brown’s argument, asserting that “projections, even when based on the most solid evidence available, are not inescapable outcomes.” They outlined six scenarios under which Dr. Brown’s “looming joblessness” might not happen,

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Liu Datdong in Covina

19 months ago

including rising demand for all health care services as the economy improves, and increasing retirement in the large cohort of pharmacists trained in the 1970s.

Dr. Knapp, who is the dean of the Touro University California College of Pharmacy, in Vallejo, said in an interview that Dr. Brown’s commentary “was helpful in bringing to a wide audience data about the pharmacy education enterprise and the job market. It was not helpful because it tends to cause panic among students that there’s a bleak future for them.” She also faulted Dr. Brown for an “inaccurate portrayal of the ability of the current pharmacy schools or accrediting agencies to prevent new schools from opening or schools from expanding. That clearly would be considered restraint of trade, and they could be sued under the Sherman Anti-Trust Act of 1890.” Furthermore, Dr. Knapp argued that Dr. Brown ignored factors other than an increase in graduates, such as the Great Recession. “I don’t agree that a glut [of pharmacists] is inevitable,” she said.

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Liu Datdong in Covina

19 months ago

Lucinda L. Maine, PhD, RPh, the executive vice president and CEO of the American Association of Colleges of Pharmacy (AACP), in Alexandria, Va., said in an interview: “The question is ‘is there any threat of significant unemployment facing our almost 300,000 licensed pharmacists now?’ I think that Dan’s answer was too unidimensional and simplistic.” An important unknown, Dr. Maine said, is the rate of expansion of the pharmacists’ patient care activities. Pharmacists will be doing more patient care in the future, and more of those positions will open up, she indicated.

Steven J. Martin, PharmD, BCPS, FCCP, FCCM, a professor and chairman, Department of Pharmacy Practice at the University of Toledo, Ohio, said Dr. Brown’s commentary “brought up a clear problem that we recognize in the academic world and that we’re seeing across the profession: that we have an increased number of graduates and that the job situation for those graduates has become tighter over the last few years.” However, he said, increasing demand for patient care services would continue to fuel job growth. Residency training, certificate programs, and MBA or MPH degrees will continue to make pharmacists “better able to be employed,” he suggested. “I continue to think that jobs are available, and I see that continuing for the foreseeable future.”

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flrph in miami, Florida

19 months ago

Problem: no one is paying for pharmacist- patient interaction to a degree that hiring would increase.
Problem 2: pharmacist over 50 with a 20 year work horizon are being fired at an alarming rate to hire younger grads at 70% of their salary. Older RPh has out lived the BS degree and will not be able to find any job.

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