Lies about pharmacist job market

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

5 months ago

KennyO in Ocala, Florida said: DDSRPH,
I am not sure what they are starting them out at but I know they are not giving them 40 hrs, many are being hired for part time to avoid having to pay for healthcare for them. I did see a job recently and the pay was $25.

So MVD's comment doesn't surprise me at all. They are paying RPh's less than RN's now but the new grads have the ego issue with wanting to be called "Dr'.

I heard that last. Year the chains in TN were offering about $36 per hour to new grads. I can't confirm that but it sounds very possible. A friend of mine who is mid to late fifties works as a floater for,a large chain and is down to one day per week. He has tried to go to a store based full time and was told those positions are being reserved for new grads. He said many of the new grads don't last too long when reality sets in and the white coat doesn't compensate for the horrible working conditions of chain store pharmacy.

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

5 months ago

That is such a disgrace. These schools have ruined how many lives because of their greed. I really think the RPh's should all stick together and unionize. Then this would all stop. Now Seniority is a bad thing.

I am trying to figure out what I can go back to school for that would be safe and now have to worry that my job will be eliminated or given to a 23 yr old.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

5 months ago

KennyO in Ocala, Florida said: That is such a disgrace. These schools have ruined how many lives because of their greed. I really think the RPh's should all stick together and unionize. Then this would all stop. Now Seniority is a bad thing.

I am trying to figure out what I can go back to school for that would be safe and now have to worry that my job will be eliminated or given to a 23 yr old.

Kenny
In the right wing republican world we live in it is more likely we will all be working for a temp agency than being in a pharmacy union. Unions are relic of the past when we had a upwardly mobile middle class.

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

5 months ago

Well, as an Independent Voter I would have to disagree that we are living in a conservative world. Things at least here, are leaning way to the left. But I do know that Unions vote for Democrats I am not really political but I do think that the world/economy we are living in now, has never been worse.

I don't care if they are red or blue, I just hope they can all start listening to Americans and stop worrying about getting re-elected.

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MVD in Missouri

5 months ago

ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee said: Kenny
In the right wing republican world we live in it is more likely we will all be working for a temp agency than being in a pharmacy union. Unions are relic of the past when we had a upwardly mobile middle class.

Amen to that!

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35 yr exp rph

4 months ago

NO MORE JOB FOR RPH WITHOUT HOSPITAL EXP in Minneapolis, Minnesota said: I'VE BEEN APPLYING FOR JOB EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR THE PAST 10 MONTHS,I HAVEN'T GOT A SINGLE CALL EVEN FOR AN INTERVIEW
I'M PHARM.D, 5 YEARS RETAIL EXPERIENCE, NO HOSPITAL EXPERIENCE, LICENSED IN 2 STATES, MA AND PA
NOW, I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO START THINKING ABOUT OPENING MY OWN INDEPENDENT PHARMACY COZ I'LL GET LAID OFF IN LESS THAN A MONTH, I KNOW, IT'S GONNA BE BAD FOR MY PERSONAL LIFE BEING A WOMAN AND WORK 7 DAYS A WEEK LIKE THAT, BUT WHAT I CAN DO ?
MARRY A RICH HUSBAND THEN GO BACK TO SCHOOL ?? LOL...

yes open your own shop if you can

also marry the rich guy if you can

if close enough to North Dakota open there
no chain competition plus oil boom effect

if possible buy existing store

be willing to move

wages will likely fall with oversupply and you can hire Rph cheaper and keep more profit while working less

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35 yr exp rph in Gurnee, Illinois

4 months ago

holmes in River Grove, Illinois said: Do not believe some of the lies being written here regarding lack of job opportunities for pharmacists. These liars are trying to scare people off from applying to pharmacy school because they fear that supply will overtake demand. Facht is, pharmacists make tons of money right out of school and there are and will be many job openings in the future. This is all just a feeble attempt to prevent people from entering this lucrative field. Liars!

sounds like u r one of t 4 out of 5 with a job!

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

4 months ago

Here is more bad news!!

Is another pharmacy school really necessary?! New pharmacy school eyed for Mississippi
drugtopics.modernmedicine.com/drug-topics/news/new-pharmacy-school-eyed-mississippi?page=00

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Michael in Pittsford, New York

4 months ago

I graduated in 1997 and times were good. For the first time in my life I got laid off as a pharmacist in August and I sent out 60 resumes and called 5 chains. I got a "no" from all of them. I live in western Ny and I did not know the job market was this bad here. I just registered for the second degree in nursing program at my local college, I personally know 8 pharmacists now who have been out of work for 6 months or more. I love to work so I'm getting into a field where I can find a job...good bye pharmacy...it was fun.

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Sad RPh in PA in Pennsylvania

4 months ago

Older pharmacists remember the good times of being able to switch jobs on a whim while...some new grads are still digesting the fact that the school that they paid good $ to (granted to get an education) may have lied to them about the current job outlook. I was laid off after loss of business in 2/2013 6 weeeks after enrolling in a MS degree program. Tons of applications, calls, etc. and only one interview in 11 months. A friend of mine for over 20 years, who just happens to be a supervisor, texted me 1/2014 "Are you still looking for a job?" Today I am in a no dispense, daylight only, no weekends, on call or Holidays position. I drive and hour to work and am grateful to have a job again. It will continue to be rough in the years to come for old timers and new grads alike...

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

4 months ago

35 yr exp rph in Gurnee, Illinois said: sounds like u r one of t 4 out of 5 with a job!

This post has to be a joke. What pharmacist would say there are tons of jobs and people make great money right out of school????

Lecom is that you?

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

4 months ago

Michael in Pittsford, New York said: I graduated in 1997 and times were good. For the first time in my life I got laid off as a pharmacist in August and I sent out 60 resumes and called 5 chains. I got a "no" from all of them. I live in western Ny and I did not know the job market was this bad here. I just registered for the second degree in nursing program at my local college, I personally know 8 pharmacists now who have been out of work for 6 months or more. I love to work so I'm getting into a field where I can find a job...good bye pharmacy...it was fun.

Nursing is a better choice. I have a friend who is a Nurse Practioner and she is able to write her own ticket. That is absolutely a very safe career secure.

If Pharmacists are not replaced by some kid who got their degree online at Lecom, then they will be replaced by a kiosk in the near future. It's coming....If you have a job you better come up with a plan B now. If you don't have a job, then look into going back to school to change careers.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

4 months ago

Kenny
You are exactly right. I posted something similar a few months ago about technology and it's impact on Pharmacy. The automated Kiosk type dispensing model is bound to happen in some form. It can spit out your drugs and all the written info you would ever need to know with a 800 number to talk with a pharmacist if any questions remain. Hopefully that pharmacist will be in the US and not in India or some other country.

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xboxer in Tucson, Arizona

4 months ago

KennyO in Ocala, Florida said: That is such a disgrace. These schools have ruined how many lives because of their greed. I really think the RPh's should all stick together and unionize. Then this would all stop. Now Seniority is a bad thing.

I am trying to figure out what I can go back to school for that would be safe and now have to worry that my job will be eliminated or given to a 23 yr old.

From what I've read on these forums about these schools and healthcare fields, they have saturated them so bad, that pay levels are down and there are no jobs. Yet, I keep reading posts of people who are going into them! It's just baffling that anyone would listen to places that stand to profit off of them.

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

4 months ago

Well, there are still shortages for MD's, Nurse Practioners and PA's. Other than that, there is an surplus in all healthcare as you stated.

That is why the schools are dumbing down the requirements to keep their enrollment filled. I can't imagine the quality (lack thereof) will be the pharmacists graduating in a few years.

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xboxer in Tucson, Arizona

4 months ago

KennyO in Ocala, Florida said: Well, there are still shortages for MD's, Nurse Practioners and PA's. Other than that, there is an surplus in all healthcare as you stated.

That is why the schools are dumbing down the requirements to keep their enrollment filled. I can't imagine the quality (lack thereof) will be the pharmacists graduating in a few years.

Anyone I know working in medicine is being overworked, underpaid and stressed. The rest can't find jobs. Nursing is hit too, yet, you keep seeing people telling others to go into it.

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

4 months ago

DDSRPH, you are spot on. Unfortunately I think the Pharmacists will be in India or some third world country. Dr's will probably send in a script on their iphone and it will automatically be filled by the Kiosk and there will be no pharmacist or tech in the store. The board will have to approve that but I am sure that won't be a problem to make those changes.

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xboxer in Tucson, Arizona

4 months ago

KennyO in Ocala, Florida said: DDSRPH, you are spot on. Unfortunately I think the Pharmacists will be in India or some third world country. Dr's will probably send in a script on their iphone and it will automatically be filled by the Kiosk and there will be no pharmacist or tech in the store. The board will have to approve that but I am sure that won't be a problem to make those changes.

This will probably happen with a lot of professions. But those nations will not be able to have the standard of living once afforded in the USA because they are willing to work so cheaply.

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hellokitty in Danville, California

4 months ago

I graduated in May and applied to a ton of hospitals, but haven't heard back. Are there any alternative career ideas anybody may have?

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

4 months ago

Kitty, if you have any hospital exp outside of your rotations we might be able to help. Feel free to email me your resume at kevin@pharmacyweek.com, thanks!!

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

4 months ago

Just saw this!!

The congress will probably take another year to get around to considering HR 4190……..

The Pharmacy School Bubble Is About to Burst
www.newrepublic.com/article/119634/pharmacy-school-crisis-why-good-jobs-are-drying

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Scared for Rx in New York, New York

3 months ago

Kevin in San Antonio, Texas said: Just saw this!!

The congress will probably take another year to get around to considering HR 4190……..

The Pharmacy School Bubble Is About to Burst
www.newrepublic.com/article/119634/pharmacy-school-crisis-why-good-jobs-are-drying

I saw this as well. When MSM blogs start reporting on this you just know the gig is up.

I read all the comments on the New Republic blog and I pretty much have to agree with most of them: pharmacy as a profession isn't as versatile as nursing and medicine. Yes, nurses and doctors have more or less the same issues that pharmacy is going through BUT no where as bad. The majority of graduates will flock to retail. Hospitals and other sectors cannot possibly sustain those trying to flee from retail due to the horrible working conditions. This is a bubble and it is about to explode. Hopefully, prospective students will think twice before going into pharmacy school.

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AlbanyPharmD in Buffalo, New York

3 months ago

Am I worried? No. Am I crapping my pants? OH HELL YEAH!

Realistically speaking, how many years do you guys think it will take before machines and outsourced work to 3rd world countries (India) start obliterating the careers of the domestic pharmacist? The pharmacists that I've shadowed across the country had a whole spectra of opinions, from within the next decade to 30-40 years from now.

I've teched, and I agree with the sentiment - CVS corporate are clueless ignoramuses and if they're behind the explosion of the schools to drive wages down - Karmic interference will kick in when a University of Phoenix graduated student screws up 250/500 scripts in one day and the company loses a major lawsuit.

I'll be HAPPY if I can squeeze 20 years out of this retail career at the current wages offered. I am going to be 30 when I graduate, and I hope this "old age" does not get me discriminated from working retail! For those that worked retail long enough, what age range is "too-old" for hiring managers?

For the time being, I am thankful the majority of my naive classmates in Albany all have their goals set on hospital and long-term care by doing residency. This residency notion has been shoved down our throats by our professors, whom by the way, look like they just finished residency themselves. Bad investment in time if you ask me.

Current students who are worried about the RETAIL job market (guys, correct me if I'm wrong here): do what you can to fit in part-time tech work DURING your studies. No, IPPE doesn't count. I mean getting tech work at whatever nearby chain possible. By the way, finding tech work in western NY is pretty easy - no one wants to do it at $10/hour! The companies can really care less if you have a 4.0 or 2.0 GPA - they just want a licensed worker with reasonable communication ability. This experience (TRUST ME) will make your life a LOT easier when looking for work as a grad-intern, and eventually, full time slave.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

3 months ago

The effects of technology is anybody's guess. There will be increasing pressures on keeping down healthcare costs in the future and technology will be used to that end, whether good or bad for pharmacy only the future can tell. If I was starting out today pharmacy would be at the bottom of my list for careers. With the overbuilding of pharmacy schools which will take years to unwind, the outlook can't be good. But for someone nearing graduation it's too late to worry now. Your idea of working as a tech during school is a good idea as is the foregoing of another two years of residency type training. If you decide to go with a job in chain retail, I would save and invest to the max, join the military reserves the Navy would be my first choice as I am a retired Navy reservist (Capt Navy Dentsl corps). If all the extra income from reserves is invested it will go a long way toward a secure retirement later not to mention the future pension and other benefits especially healthcare. It will also provide a good networking source that could lead to much better future job. It worked for me I gave up my Dental license at age 56 and pharmacy at age 62.

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AlbanyPharmD in Buffalo, New York

3 months ago

ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee said: The effects of technology is anybody's guess. There will be increasing pressures on keeping down healthcare costs in the future and technology will be used to that end, whether good or bad for pharmacy only the future can tell. If I was starting out today pharmacy would be at the bottom of my list for careers. With the overbuilding of pharmacy schools which will take years to unwind, the outlook can't be good. But for someone nearing graduation it's too late to worry now. Your idea of working as a tech during school is a good idea as is the foregoing of another two years of residency type training. If you decide to go with a job in chain retail, I would save and invest to the max, join the military reserves the Navy would be my first choice as I am a retired Navy reservist (Capt Navy Dentsl corps). If all the extra income from reserves is invested it will go a long way toward a secure retirement later not to mention the future pension and other benefits especially healthcare. It will also provide a good networking source that could lead to much better future job. It worked for me I gave up my Dental license at age 56 and pharmacy at age 62.

Thanks for the heads-up. I'm looking at your user-name, and oddly enough, I was considering applying to dental school and dropping out of pharmacy school, lol. But, I really need to think this through considering all things - opportunity cost, time invested in applying to dental school/applications, etc.

Your idea of applying to the Reserves is a good one - especially with the realistic opportunities of networking, and of course, pension. Here, and I'm sure it's like this at other pharmacy schools, the school's idea of "networking" is to join some fraternity led by a spoiled 21 year old. What's the end result? Cliquing, talking sh*t about others, it's high school! By the way, let me add, joining a PHARMACY fraternity has its costs too - hazing exists.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

3 months ago

I think it all depends on how close you are to graduation from pharmacy school. If two years or more I would bail out. As for the reserves there are very few slots for pharmacists but there may be openings. I had an extra benefit in that the Navy paid for four years of Detnal school at Marquette including a small amount for living expenses. When I went to pharmacy school tuition was extremely low compared to today. My three years at UNM was less than one semester at today's rates. I graduated UNM in 1977 and Marquette Dental school in 1981. The real pay off in the reserves is for,those with prior service. I had four years enlisted time in the Air Force prior to college and served four years active duty as a Navy Dentist as an obligation for,the scholarship, then spent an additional 25 years as a reservist. Pharmacy is an incredibly boring profession and Dental not much better. The reserves added a dimension of excitement with much foreign travel that made all the difference in my overall career. I am now reaping great benefits, good pension, free healthcare for myself and especially for my 8 year younger wife who is far from Medicare, and many travel benefits such as world wide space available travel, low cost lodging in officer quarters.

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Rx Veteran in Maryland

3 months ago

I suspect technology will look like this. One center filling all prescriptions with download to a local robot upon approval. Computer Data bases are inherently out of date. Lag time was about 2 years when I was working. A new drug came out norfloxicin. I read the package insert. Seems it chelates with divalent cations. Received an Rx for floxin, Carafate, and something else. I immediately remembered the interaction. Carafate has Al++ hanging of of it. It was a no go. Computer didn't catch it, but the human did. Computer help with some things not with anything new.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

3 months ago

I would not underestimate the impact of technology. Present drug interaction programs are an after thought tacked onto a Pharmacy package. Thy could be a thousand times better and updated in a few micro seconds. Different thresholds could be established from absolutely contriaindicated on down. The most significantt ones could be directly forwarded to the doctor 's computer device requiring his override before the RX could be filled. The sky is the limit and I could not begin to predict future possibilities. Does Floxin interact with trivalent cations?

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CONCERNED FOR PROFESSION in Saint Albans, West Virginia

2 months ago

With so many new schools of pharmacy and existing programs increasing the number of students they take, unless pharmacists can expand their roles the future looks bleak. The pharmacy school I went to believes the future is bright because the shortage of physicians will make room for nurses, pharmacists, and PAs. This will reduce costs to the health care system. I know many here are negative but I want your thoughts on this. Do you think this is possible? If not, why?

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

2 months ago

When I graduated Pharmacy school in 1977 talk was just beginning about expanded roles. Now nearly 40 years later we are still talking but no one has put forth how it is supposed to work or be paid for. We can't continue to collect 100k plus salaries for getting the right pill in the right bottle but how do we expand roles? Are we actually trained to a level do even do that? One big mistake was universal Pharm D degree without a clear cut plan on how to utilize it and pay for services provided. We have allowed educators to sell a concept before that concept was fully though thru and developed. You are right some type of expanded role is the only thing Pharmacy has to remain viable in the future but someone please let us know what that is.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

2 months ago

Anyone with a basic knowledge of healthcare could sit down and write a short paragraph describing the service provided by physicians, PA's, and nurse practitioners, and how they are paid for their services. Can the same be done for expanded roles for pharmacists as envisioned by our pharmacy educators? Presently the duties of a pharmacist can be described, and our compensation accounted for. Starting with that what additional services are the expanded role pharmacists going to provide, from what type of service location, how will what we will provide differ from what is currently provided by PA's and nurse practitioners and how will it be paid for and by whom?
Until we can do that our expanded roles exist only I the minds of pharmacy educators and other wishful thinkers..

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Sad RPh in PA in Pennsylvania

2 months ago

Transitions of care - admissions/discharges from hospitals - is an area that could greatly benefit from the specific knowlege of a pharmacist.

Actual example: Adult patient discharged from hospital with an order the physician wrote himself for a pediatric dose of IV antibiotic. An order clarification call was made by the pharmacy, but the person who received the call verified the low dose. Pharmacy dispenses several incorrect doses at which time it is caught by another pharmacist.

A good transitions of care pharmacist would have clarified the order before the patient had ever left the hospital.

Ramifications of the above (which did not happen) could have included continued infection, re-admission to the hospital or worse...

How much is it worth to hospital administrators to prevent the above from happening to their patients? Would any of them believe us that we could save them $?

Pharmacists' duties have always been tied to products ( sale of rxs, OTCs in retail, mixing IVs and dispensing unit dose in hospital).

How do we change this perception? Become involved in presentations at meetings (AAMA, HCAA)at the national level?

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

2 months ago

RPH in PA
Sir I agree that pharmacists provide a very useful service, but the case you gave falls clearly in the standard duties of a pharmacist. I know at the hospital where I worked for 25 years discharge RX's were not reviewed by the hospital pharmacists but could have been by a simple policy change. My feeling is pharmacy should have established a demonstrated need for expanded duties, clearly defined how what we would provide would mesh with the current medical practice model, relative to present providers, physicians, PA's, and nurse practitioners.
Also need to establish a legal licensing framework defining our privileges, and how we would be reimbursed. Maybe the chains can figure out how to make it work. Since 75 to 80 percent of pharmacist work in chain retail any expanded duty that will have a impact on pharmacist employment opportunities wil have to be in the retail setting.

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pharmdhubby in Sarasota, Florida

2 months ago

My wife is a recent graduate, Pharm D from Mercer. The biggest mistake she made was working for Kroger in Atlanta, then moving back to Florida (no Kroger here). Now we're in the Sarasota area, which makes us accessible to Tampa, Venice, Osprey, Sarasota County, Bradenton, etc. We're both extremely frustrated at the current situation here. Her uncle is a pharmacist for CVS 15+ years, her aunt for costco (which I heard is awesome). Both of these companies have jobs listed and/or need PT, FT, PerDiem, etc, pharmacists. She submitted her resume to both companies, one DM said "we have our own people to take care of", the other simply said "there are no positions". Keep in mind she was directly referred to both, equipped with "recommendations" from her aunt and uncle, a close friend of the DM, and the costco pharmacist who "hired" her for PerDiem who later told her the DM said no because there was a hiring freeze. Anyways, to keep this short, my question is, what the hell is going on? These companies are steadily posting new jobs, yes new jobs, less than a week old, and yet when somebody calls them, they say "we're not hiring" or "the position is already filled by an existing pharmacist". No calls back, nothing. She also is short less than 40 hours to work in Tennessee (our second move if necessary, where I'm from), so she reached out to Kroger in efforts to get her intern job back, post graduate intern job, or even work for FREE, yep... She only needs 40 hours and guess what? They told her to kick rocks.

Why is this happening? I can almost understand the Kroger problem (although I would think free labor would be cool for them during the holidays), but why are companies like CVS, Walgreens, etc in the Sarasota area posting jobs that do not exist or are already filled BEFORE being posted? The lady at Walgreens was honest and told us they will not hire for a year or so... Unreal, is anybody else experiencing this? Fake jobs?

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

2 months ago

I think what happens is these sites post jobs that might have been up a long time again. I can tell you first hand that there are no jobs in Florida because there are too many pharmacy schools here and there is one right in Bradenton. They have a program that you don't even have to attend classes. (Lecom) It's online, 3 yrs and you are finished. Imagine the quality of the students they are accepting.

If I were you, I would move back up north. Florida is just saturated more than other areas because of the number of schools plus a lot of snowbird pharmacists return each season.

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pharmdhubby in Sarasota, Florida

2 months ago

@KennyO

Any tips you can give us to stand out? I agree with you, FL is saturated, plus it seems like this is a good move for pharmacists from a financial perspective, higher numbers , bigger bonuses, after all FL is full of pill heads. We applied for a job in Gainesville as well, Publix has a funny way of taking applications, their system just tells you to upload a resume, pick general areas and you're good to go. Do you know of any openings in Ocala? Per diem is OK for us as well, we can move anywhere, I have a decent job, enough to keep us a float for a while, so we'll go anywhere we can get a job. Moving up north is at the mercy of what Atlanta has to offer, she's 40 hours short of getting licensed in TN and Georgia requires more time, so she'd have to be a graduate intern, regular intern, or worse, work for free for 40 hours in order to get licensed in TN. She's only 36 hours short!!! Unreal...

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

2 months ago

In Florida,I would go as North as you can and apply for jobs in small towns. Ocala is one area I see jobs listed but once again, who knows if they are real or not. Plus maybe call the Publix HR and ask when new stores are opening. Maybe you can get in that way. CVS and Walgreens are saturated and now that the snowbirds are returning...all the PRN, per diem jobs will be gone.

These schools are just destroying the field. It's a shame.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

2 months ago

Tennessee may be tuff also. We went from one pharmacy school to six over the last few years. If I was just starting out in today's impossible job market I would try the public/Indian health service. They are probably saturated also and you probably start at a lower salary but will come out way ahead in future years.

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

2 months ago

We have a friend in Nevada (HR) and they said now they are preparing for a flood of applicants since work permits are going to be handed out. So he said they are going to be encouraged to "show good faith" and hire from the new pool of applicants that will be applying.

I have a friend (RPh) in California who was told he can't get hired unless he learns Spanish.

I would encourage everybody to find a job ASAP because in s few months, there will be even less.

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Sad RPh in PA in Pennsylvania

2 months ago

pharmdhubby:

I can tell you that I believe that many (not all) companies that post pharmacist positions already have a person in mind and are posting externally out of some sort of legal requirements.

I was laid off in early 2014 and I applied to positions on line, dropped off resumes in person, and networked with other pharmacists. One interview was the result of all of that!

The only reason I have a job today, (even though it may not last with the current climate in healthcare)is because a pharmacy manager I have worked with several times since 1993 sent me a text asking me if I were still looking for a job. Without that contact, I would still be unemployed today.

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jasmine626 in Moorpark, California

2 months ago

finefarmacist in Bridgeport, Connecticut said: ...DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT TAKES TO SWITCH FROM PHARMACIST TO PHYSICAL THERAPIST?? I AM TIRED OF LOOKING FOR A PHARMACIST JOB

I don't recommend switching from being a Pharmacist to PT. You would incur even more debt. Also, PT is difficult to find work too. Mostly piecing together per diem work and building referral base. My husband's friend graduated 2 years ago, still trying to get established in working world (in Southern California). I know it's tough, but I personally would suggest working at a part time entry level job while continue to hustle for a pharmacist position, and when you get it, drop your part time job. Then save up and work on student loans. I have pharmacist friends, and seemed like market was a lot easier even just 7 years ago, when they graduated. I am currently an optometrist, and even though we face similar corporate takeover problems, and low insurance reimbursements, there are still crappy, low paying, per diem jobs. I am not sure how things will be in 10 year, since new schools have opened their doors as well. Good luck! Hang in there.

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

2 months ago

Can you look into being a Physician Assistant? I would think with all the uncoming health care changes and cutbacks, PA's would be in high demand.

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hellokitty in San Ramon, California

1 month ago

I am curious if the job market is really THAT BAD. I graduated in May and can tell you it's bad, but the thing is that even though I applied to tons of jobs, haven't taken my NAPLEX/MJPE yet (I will do that soon, had to delay due to a family illness) and so am not sure if my only issue is that I am currently not licensed. My biggest worry was that bc I didn't have any intern experience, I won't find a job, especially a hospital job because there are so few hospitals and so many graduates. There were a few kids in my class who were in a similar situation as me and ended up getting jobs now. I know one girl who did end up finding a job in a hospital >100 miles away from her home and a few other kids in the same boat as me (unemployed). Another friend of mine who moved from out of country also found an intern position (interim until she gets hours to become a licensed pharmacist) While I was taking a break, I've been taking online courses in computer science and am wondering if I should continue those or just focus on the NAPLEX and look for pharmacist positions only. My reasoning to take those classes was to open up job opportunities/gain skills because in pharmacy all of us learn the same thing and the people who are at a greater advantage are the ones who have worked as intern/techs during school, so I needed something to do and add to my resume in the absence of that experience. Anybody have any ideas or suggestions?

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

1 month ago

If you want a job in pharmacy I would take the Naplex as soon as possible. Another class will be graduating in five or six months with another several hundred to compete with. ALso try to start interning asap hospital ,or retail just to get the hours in. If you have never worked in pharmacy before you may be in for a surprise and want to consider other options.

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Huggies Toilet Paper in Buffalo, New York

1 month ago

@hellokitty,

Your computer science degree might give you a leg up. Have you thought about app development with applications to pharmacy? I can see this skill being useful in that regard. How companies view your skills in CS as a bonus/asset, I have no idea.

If you want to pursue pharmacy informatics, which is supposedly a hot field for the time being, you need to get your foot in a hospital via residency or staffing and eventual clinical position. Both, very competitive to obtain. Ironically enough, no CS degree or programming knowledge needed in this field. Just a basic grasp of workflow is needed (different for each hospital), which is why experience and familiarity in a hospital setting far trumps the CS degree. Did you develop any leads during P4 rotation years? Contact your preceptors if you can get your feet wet with some part time hours after you get licensed. Community/retail pharmacy is by far your safest bet. It will be that way for a couple of years until the new 10-15 schools finally graduate their inaugural class. Then, there will no longer be no such thing as a safe bet in pharmacy as even more schools are gaining accreditation!

Let's all take a moment to thank ACPE for selling out and stomping their own profession to oblivion.

The unlucky ones that recently graduated and realize what is going on and still have goals of contributing to health care are applying to PA or NP school. These will be hot fields when ACA slowly but surely takes effect. The really ambitious and capable ones are applying to MD/DO domestic schools, but this is a major investment in time and money. Good luck.

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Katdal in Dallas, Texas

1 month ago

Also to the pharmacist who replied that her spouse is a PDM: 1.There are very good pharmacists who get sick but can't call in because there is no one to cover. Therefore, we go to work sick and spread those germs to our already (some) immunosuppressed patients. Why? BAD decision on the part of PDM. (I have has walking pneumonia & could not get coverage for my shift)Also, we are around people who will cough directly at us so more likely to get sick!!!!. 2.Someone who works PRN with no benefits and no guarantee of hours may have a spouse who had a great job and small children but they eventually go back to full-time. Some are GREAT pharmacists trying to raise GREAT people for future generations. That is what I have done also.
Her thinking and yours, for repeating that, is flawed and disappointing.

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hss in Hollywood, Florida

1 month ago

i graduated bcp june 1979. i moved to south florida sometime afterwards and i worked in hospital pharmacy from 1982 to 2000. retired since then. we pleaded with the fpa and fshp not to let southeastern now nsu to open a college of pharmacy. well we pharmacists then were right
look at things now. pharmacy graduates expanded and available positions shrank. I'm only lucky now that i got
out when i did. i have friends still in the ny area who are coming toward retirement that feel very silmilarlly. well those who are still looking good luck.

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

1 month ago

Have you seen that Lecom has an "online" pharmacy program that students can complete in 3 yrs and they only have to go to "classes" for a week each year.

The are located in Bradenton Florida. Now just imagine the quality of students they will be graduating from that program and they will be calling themselves " Dr. Jones".....disgusting.

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

1 month ago

I finally had the time to get caught up on all the comments of the last 2 months, lots of great remarks! Having been in the pharmacy employment biz for 30+ years now (PharmacyWeek.com & PharmacyOneSource.com) the job market seemed to change in 2007 and has been steadily going downhill since. I'm going to make it my mission in 2015 to use forums like this one to disseminate info on what I am hearing and welcome all feedback. You can also reach me at kevin@pharmacyweek.com. Here are my thoughts on just one post above - why jobs are advertised but they don't hire.

I have been told by many sources that due to gov't reg's an employer has to post jobs. In every case these jobs also have to conform and be "scrubbed" by a gov't agency to make sure the job listing complies with EEOC, etc. The employer may have already identified who they are going to hire but they have to run the ad and then hope no one applies.

Another obstacle employers have today, and it's a tough one, is that the gov't is applying pressure on employers to hire returning veterans. As the # of returning vet's has swelled due to the draw-down of the wars employers are being required to do what they can to hire our vet's, even at the expense of other, more qualified people.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

1 month ago

Kevin
I am sure people will appreciate comments from someone who has more inside info than the working pharmacist. I have no personal stake in the profession anymore but hate to see young students led down a dead end path at the tune of a few hundred thousand dollars of debt. As for the returning vets I see almost no impact on Pharmacists. There are only a handful of pharmacist getting off active duty due to the small number in the military. Recalled reserve pharmacist, a even smaller number, are supposed to get their jobs back per a very old federal law. I doubt if there are any recalled reserve pharmacist on active duty at this time.

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