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Sad RPh in PA in Pennsylvania

17 months ago

Transitions of care - admissions/discharges from hospitals - is an area that could greatly benefit from the specific knowlege of a pharmacist.

Actual example: Adult patient discharged from hospital with an order the physician wrote himself for a pediatric dose of IV antibiotic. An order clarification call was made by the pharmacy, but the person who received the call verified the low dose. Pharmacy dispenses several incorrect doses at which time it is caught by another pharmacist.

A good transitions of care pharmacist would have clarified the order before the patient had ever left the hospital.

Ramifications of the above (which did not happen) could have included continued infection, re-admission to the hospital or worse...

How much is it worth to hospital administrators to prevent the above from happening to their patients? Would any of them believe us that we could save them $?

Pharmacists' duties have always been tied to products ( sale of rxs, OTCs in retail, mixing IVs and dispensing unit dose in hospital).

How do we change this perception? Become involved in presentations at meetings (AAMA, HCAA)at the national level?

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

17 months ago

RPH in PA
Sir I agree that pharmacists provide a very useful service, but the case you gave falls clearly in the standard duties of a pharmacist. I know at the hospital where I worked for 25 years discharge RX's were not reviewed by the hospital pharmacists but could have been by a simple policy change. My feeling is pharmacy should have established a demonstrated need for expanded duties, clearly defined how what we would provide would mesh with the current medical practice model, relative to present providers, physicians, PA's, and nurse practitioners.
Also need to establish a legal licensing framework defining our privileges, and how we would be reimbursed. Maybe the chains can figure out how to make it work. Since 75 to 80 percent of pharmacist work in chain retail any expanded duty that will have a impact on pharmacist employment opportunities wil have to be in the retail setting.

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pharmdhubby in Sarasota, Florida

17 months ago

My wife is a recent graduate, Pharm D from Mercer. The biggest mistake she made was working for Kroger in Atlanta, then moving back to Florida (no Kroger here). Now we're in the Sarasota area, which makes us accessible to Tampa, Venice, Osprey, Sarasota County, Bradenton, etc. We're both extremely frustrated at the current situation here. Her uncle is a pharmacist for CVS 15+ years, her aunt for costco (which I heard is awesome). Both of these companies have jobs listed and/or need PT, FT, PerDiem, etc, pharmacists. She submitted her resume to both companies, one DM said "we have our own people to take care of", the other simply said "there are no positions". Keep in mind she was directly referred to both, equipped with "recommendations" from her aunt and uncle, a close friend of the DM, and the costco pharmacist who "hired" her for PerDiem who later told her the DM said no because there was a hiring freeze. Anyways, to keep this short, my question is, what the hell is going on? These companies are steadily posting new jobs, yes new jobs, less than a week old, and yet when somebody calls them, they say "we're not hiring" or "the position is already filled by an existing pharmacist". No calls back, nothing. She also is short less than 40 hours to work in Tennessee (our second move if necessary, where I'm from), so she reached out to Kroger in efforts to get her intern job back, post graduate intern job, or even work for FREE, yep... She only needs 40 hours and guess what? They told her to kick rocks.

Why is this happening? I can almost understand the Kroger problem (although I would think free labor would be cool for them during the holidays), but why are companies like CVS, Walgreens, etc in the Sarasota area posting jobs that do not exist or are already filled BEFORE being posted? The lady at Walgreens was honest and told us they will not hire for a year or so... Unreal, is anybody else experiencing this? Fake jobs?

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

17 months ago

I think what happens is these sites post jobs that might have been up a long time again. I can tell you first hand that there are no jobs in Florida because there are too many pharmacy schools here and there is one right in Bradenton. They have a program that you don't even have to attend classes. (Lecom) It's online, 3 yrs and you are finished. Imagine the quality of the students they are accepting.

If I were you, I would move back up north. Florida is just saturated more than other areas because of the number of schools plus a lot of snowbird pharmacists return each season.

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pharmdhubby in Sarasota, Florida

17 months ago

@KennyO

Any tips you can give us to stand out? I agree with you, FL is saturated, plus it seems like this is a good move for pharmacists from a financial perspective, higher numbers , bigger bonuses, after all FL is full of pill heads. We applied for a job in Gainesville as well, Publix has a funny way of taking applications, their system just tells you to upload a resume, pick general areas and you're good to go. Do you know of any openings in Ocala? Per diem is OK for us as well, we can move anywhere, I have a decent job, enough to keep us a float for a while, so we'll go anywhere we can get a job. Moving up north is at the mercy of what Atlanta has to offer, she's 40 hours short of getting licensed in TN and Georgia requires more time, so she'd have to be a graduate intern, regular intern, or worse, work for free for 40 hours in order to get licensed in TN. She's only 36 hours short!!! Unreal...

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

17 months ago

In Florida,I would go as North as you can and apply for jobs in small towns. Ocala is one area I see jobs listed but once again, who knows if they are real or not. Plus maybe call the Publix HR and ask when new stores are opening. Maybe you can get in that way. CVS and Walgreens are saturated and now that the snowbirds are returning...all the PRN, per diem jobs will be gone.

These schools are just destroying the field. It's a shame.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

17 months ago

Tennessee may be tuff also. We went from one pharmacy school to six over the last few years. If I was just starting out in today's impossible job market I would try the public/Indian health service. They are probably saturated also and you probably start at a lower salary but will come out way ahead in future years.

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

17 months ago

We have a friend in Nevada (HR) and they said now they are preparing for a flood of applicants since work permits are going to be handed out. So he said they are going to be encouraged to "show good faith" and hire from the new pool of applicants that will be applying.

I have a friend (RPh) in California who was told he can't get hired unless he learns Spanish.

I would encourage everybody to find a job ASAP because in s few months, there will be even less.

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Sad RPh in PA in Pennsylvania

17 months ago

pharmdhubby:

I can tell you that I believe that many (not all) companies that post pharmacist positions already have a person in mind and are posting externally out of some sort of legal requirements.

I was laid off in early 2014 and I applied to positions on line, dropped off resumes in person, and networked with other pharmacists. One interview was the result of all of that!

The only reason I have a job today, (even though it may not last with the current climate in healthcare)is because a pharmacy manager I have worked with several times since 1993 sent me a text asking me if I were still looking for a job. Without that contact, I would still be unemployed today.

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jasmine626 in Moorpark, California

17 months ago

finefarmacist in Bridgeport, Connecticut said: ...DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT TAKES TO SWITCH FROM PHARMACIST TO PHYSICAL THERAPIST?? I AM TIRED OF LOOKING FOR A PHARMACIST JOB

I don't recommend switching from being a Pharmacist to PT. You would incur even more debt. Also, PT is difficult to find work too. Mostly piecing together per diem work and building referral base. My husband's friend graduated 2 years ago, still trying to get established in working world (in Southern California). I know it's tough, but I personally would suggest working at a part time entry level job while continue to hustle for a pharmacist position, and when you get it, drop your part time job. Then save up and work on student loans. I have pharmacist friends, and seemed like market was a lot easier even just 7 years ago, when they graduated. I am currently an optometrist, and even though we face similar corporate takeover problems, and low insurance reimbursements, there are still crappy, low paying, per diem jobs. I am not sure how things will be in 10 year, since new schools have opened their doors as well. Good luck! Hang in there.

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

17 months ago

Can you look into being a Physician Assistant? I would think with all the uncoming health care changes and cutbacks, PA's would be in high demand.

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hellokitty in San Ramon, California

17 months ago

I am curious if the job market is really THAT BAD. I graduated in May and can tell you it's bad, but the thing is that even though I applied to tons of jobs, haven't taken my NAPLEX/MJPE yet (I will do that soon, had to delay due to a family illness) and so am not sure if my only issue is that I am currently not licensed. My biggest worry was that bc I didn't have any intern experience, I won't find a job, especially a hospital job because there are so few hospitals and so many graduates. There were a few kids in my class who were in a similar situation as me and ended up getting jobs now. I know one girl who did end up finding a job in a hospital >100 miles away from her home and a few other kids in the same boat as me (unemployed). Another friend of mine who moved from out of country also found an intern position (interim until she gets hours to become a licensed pharmacist) While I was taking a break, I've been taking online courses in computer science and am wondering if I should continue those or just focus on the NAPLEX and look for pharmacist positions only. My reasoning to take those classes was to open up job opportunities/gain skills because in pharmacy all of us learn the same thing and the people who are at a greater advantage are the ones who have worked as intern/techs during school, so I needed something to do and add to my resume in the absence of that experience. Anybody have any ideas or suggestions?

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

17 months ago

If you want a job in pharmacy I would take the Naplex as soon as possible. Another class will be graduating in five or six months with another several hundred to compete with. ALso try to start interning asap hospital ,or retail just to get the hours in. If you have never worked in pharmacy before you may be in for a surprise and want to consider other options.

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Huggies Toilet Paper in Buffalo, New York

16 months ago

@hellokitty,

Your computer science degree might give you a leg up. Have you thought about app development with applications to pharmacy? I can see this skill being useful in that regard. How companies view your skills in CS as a bonus/asset, I have no idea.

If you want to pursue pharmacy informatics, which is supposedly a hot field for the time being, you need to get your foot in a hospital via residency or staffing and eventual clinical position. Both, very competitive to obtain. Ironically enough, no CS degree or programming knowledge needed in this field. Just a basic grasp of workflow is needed (different for each hospital), which is why experience and familiarity in a hospital setting far trumps the CS degree. Did you develop any leads during P4 rotation years? Contact your preceptors if you can get your feet wet with some part time hours after you get licensed. Community/retail pharmacy is by far your safest bet. It will be that way for a couple of years until the new 10-15 schools finally graduate their inaugural class. Then, there will no longer be no such thing as a safe bet in pharmacy as even more schools are gaining accreditation!

Let's all take a moment to thank ACPE for selling out and stomping their own profession to oblivion.

The unlucky ones that recently graduated and realize what is going on and still have goals of contributing to health care are applying to PA or NP school. These will be hot fields when ACA slowly but surely takes effect. The really ambitious and capable ones are applying to MD/DO domestic schools, but this is a major investment in time and money. Good luck.

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Katdal in Dallas, Texas

16 months ago

Also to the pharmacist who replied that her spouse is a PDM: 1.There are very good pharmacists who get sick but can't call in because there is no one to cover. Therefore, we go to work sick and spread those germs to our already (some) immunosuppressed patients. Why? BAD decision on the part of PDM. (I have has walking pneumonia & could not get coverage for my shift)Also, we are around people who will cough directly at us so more likely to get sick!!!!. 2.Someone who works PRN with no benefits and no guarantee of hours may have a spouse who had a great job and small children but they eventually go back to full-time. Some are GREAT pharmacists trying to raise GREAT people for future generations. That is what I have done also.
Her thinking and yours, for repeating that, is flawed and disappointing.

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hss in Hollywood, Florida

16 months ago

i graduated bcp june 1979. i moved to south florida sometime afterwards and i worked in hospital pharmacy from 1982 to 2000. retired since then. we pleaded with the fpa and fshp not to let southeastern now nsu to open a college of pharmacy. well we pharmacists then were right
look at things now. pharmacy graduates expanded and available positions shrank. I'm only lucky now that i got
out when i did. i have friends still in the ny area who are coming toward retirement that feel very silmilarlly. well those who are still looking good luck.

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KennyO in Ocala, Florida

16 months ago

Have you seen that Lecom has an "online" pharmacy program that students can complete in 3 yrs and they only have to go to "classes" for a week each year.

The are located in Bradenton Florida. Now just imagine the quality of students they will be graduating from that program and they will be calling themselves " Dr. Jones".....disgusting.

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

I finally had the time to get caught up on all the comments of the last 2 months, lots of great remarks! Having been in the pharmacy employment biz for 30+ years now (PharmacyWeek.com & PharmacyOneSource.com) the job market seemed to change in 2007 and has been steadily going downhill since. I'm going to make it my mission in 2015 to use forums like this one to disseminate info on what I am hearing and welcome all feedback. You can also reach me at kevin@pharmacyweek.com. Here are my thoughts on just one post above - why jobs are advertised but they don't hire.

I have been told by many sources that due to gov't reg's an employer has to post jobs. In every case these jobs also have to conform and be "scrubbed" by a gov't agency to make sure the job listing complies with EEOC, etc. The employer may have already identified who they are going to hire but they have to run the ad and then hope no one applies.

Another obstacle employers have today, and it's a tough one, is that the gov't is applying pressure on employers to hire returning veterans. As the # of returning vet's has swelled due to the draw-down of the wars employers are being required to do what they can to hire our vet's, even at the expense of other, more qualified people.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

16 months ago

Kevin
I am sure people will appreciate comments from someone who has more inside info than the working pharmacist. I have no personal stake in the profession anymore but hate to see young students led down a dead end path at the tune of a few hundred thousand dollars of debt. As for the returning vets I see almost no impact on Pharmacists. There are only a handful of pharmacist getting off active duty due to the small number in the military. Recalled reserve pharmacist, a even smaller number, are supposed to get their jobs back per a very old federal law. I doubt if there are any recalled reserve pharmacist on active duty at this time.

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

@ ddsrph - Thank you for your comments; they're much appreciated! I'll def try and remain as neutral as possible in the info I post but can already tell you I feel the tide is turning. I think the ACPE has gotten the word given the enrollment #'s of new pharmacy students is dropping. We now have 3 years worth of data and a trend line to support it. I'm also def hoping we can all work together to endure a smooth landing vs. a knee-jerk response, something I am now fearful of if too many students switch majors.

RE the military I agree with you. I should have used a blanket statement that in every area of healthcare, and in pretty much every other industry, Washington is putting pressure on employers to hire Vet's due to their swelling ranks.

One of my bigger concerns are the changes coming to the Pharmacy Technicians. I'm seeing very little info in circulation on this so will report here what I'm finding. An opening paragraph follows below and it's something every pharmacist needs to be aware of as it could adversely impact them. From what I'm hearing the ASHP, ACPE & PTCB have formed an alliance to ensure that all future Technicians are ASHP Accredited whether they ever works in a health systems setting or not. The move is being done to bring every Tech under one set of rules nationally, inc their training programs.

Expanded Role of the Pharmacy Technician
As the Pharmacy Technician Certification Board (PTCB) implements its position that after 2018 only pharmacy technicians (PTs) who have completed an accredited technician training program will be eligible to sit for the examination, there will be more pressure to expand the PT’s role. For example, if a PT could handle all refill prescription filling independently, it could give pharmacists more time for clinical functions. Unless pharmacists get reimbursed for these roles, however, an expanded PT role will place more pressure on pharmacists. This may cause pharmacists to turn against PTs and the PTCB.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

16 months ago

That's a concern I have considered also. Pharmacists downplaying their traditional dispensing role for a yet to materialize "expanded duty" and have techs further decrease their job opportunities. Chains would be more than happy to increase techs and decrease pharmacists.

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

@ ddsrph With the emphasis on Clinical roles today and the expansion of the PGY1 & 2 there is no doubt the market, both retail and health systems, is moving deeper into more clinical functions. I'll be very curious to see our new salary figures as we're already seeing new grad PharmD's in retail bumping the top, non-Residency trained new grads in health systems going backwards, but truly Clinical Pharmacists with Residencies pay rising. The Pharmacist whose pay is going up the most are health systems Mgr's & DOP's. To a great extent the heady days of yesterday are back for them!!

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Sad RPh in PA in Pennsylvania

16 months ago

Kevin - I wish you had posted the information about the job sites last year! I was laid off most of 2013 and it was truly depressing how many jobs I applied to (not just internet)and did not receive a response at all. Not even a "thanks but no thanks" rejection e-mail. Having graduated in the 90s, this was definitely a shocker to me.

ddsrph - I read what you had mentioned regarding the advancement of tech duties on another forum somewhere...I agree that this will impact retail far more than other pharmacy fields. At least this will not impact me in my current oncology clinic setting.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

16 months ago

When you mentioned ontology it reminded me of an area of pharmacy many may have not considered. When I attended the University of New Mexico our pharmacy school was big in the area of radio pharmacy and we had a few students pursue that area. One of them later started a major company in radio pharmaceuticals and made millions. There is of course a certain level of health risk working with both oncology drugs and radio active drugs
but probably very small with modern hoods and other safety precautions.

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Ja in Melbourne, Florida

16 months ago

ugh in Tujunga, California said: No one likes career changers. No one has time to deal with career changers in this economy. That was fine 10 years ago when there were plentiful of jobs, but when there are no jobs, why would an employer pick a career changer over someone much younger whose first pick was pharmacy? Sorry, that's the truth. I worked as a recruiter before and I know this. If I have one job available and 100 applicants, I'm probably going to pick the cheaper candidate, who's unmarried/no kids (therefore more able to commit to the job), much younger than me (so I can control easier), and someone fresh out of school and eager to work, and someone who can put years of work in. Someone who's 40+ has worked, thinks they know everything (even though they are new to the field), are difficult to train, reluctant to learn technology, ask for more money, and have a million restrictions regarding their schedule because of their family. Compare that to a 25 year old single person living on their own who is able to concentrate 150% on their career. Sorry, it's the truth.

Sorry, I mostly disagree with you. Most 40+ people have worked and are more experienced and responsable than younger adults.They have a family to care for, so they will not party all night and engage in risky behavior. I have seen a large company that hired a young adult and found out latter he was a pedofile.

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

@ Sad RPh in PA. I can easily remember the days when pharmacists used to be upset they had to fill out a paper application. Now everyone is stuck in the black hole of Applicant Tracking Systems (ATS). HR dept.'s have been hit hard in this recession and many of the old guard is gone, in many cases replaced by 20-somethings who talk in 140 character sound-bytes and don't know how to use a phone. I recently read a story where an HR person was "creeped-out" because someone actually showed up unannounced. Once you apply to the ATS' and you receive their templated email about the only time you will hear from HR again is when you match on a job opening. They are just too short-staffed and don't have the time to follow-up with everyone.

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

@ ddsrph Nuclear pharmacy used to have many players but today it seems Cardinal Health has bought many of them up and now pretty much controls the market.

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

@ Ja in Melbourne, Florida. While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and there are always exceptions to the rule, as someone who has owned a very successful headhunting biz ugh in Tujunga, California has it right. For a basic lick, stick, count pour job the new grad will most always win out over the experienced person. I started in the pharmacy headhunting biz in 1981 and tracked hundreds if not thousands of placements. Our MMA (Most Marketable Applicant) was a single, renting male, open to a regional/national job search and moving to be close to or farther away from family. Just my opinion but as I'm still in the employment biz with PharmacyWeek the same profile holds true today.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

16 months ago

The student in the class ahead of me started Syncor. For a while they were the biggest player. As a career would nuclear pharmacy be a possible option for a recent grad looking to get ahead of the pack?
(Question for Kevin)

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

Don't forget the Veterans Affairs as a great options esp. for those with a retail background looking to be retrained as a hospital pharmacist. They have many cutting edge opportunities whether in clinical pharmacy, tele-health, etc. See their profile on our site www.pharmacyweek.com/employer/company/485/U-S-Department-Of-Veterans-Affairs

Or see this link for specifics on Transition Support for Retail Pharmacists
www.vacareers.va.gov/careers/pharmacists/transition-support.asp

The new Director is shaking things up at the VA and Washington has given them $5B in add'l funding to make their pay more competitive with the private sector.

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Sad RPh in PA in Pennsylvania

16 months ago

Kevin -
I sent my resume to a LTC pharmacy last year who was looking for a consultant pharmacist (I had 3 years recent experience). They responded same day and wanted me to interview ASAP with the supervisor the following week when he/she was in town. A week goes by and nothing. I call HR rep. several times, always getting voice mail, always leaving a message and never getting a return call.

Found out from a peer in the industry that the LTC pharmacy's "pending" contract with a new facility fell through. They no longer needed to hire a pharmacist and felt no need to notify me of that fact.

The unprofessionalism that abounds today (due to many things I don't want to go into) in the field of Pharmacy is disheartening indeed...

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xboxer in Tucson, Arizona

16 months ago

All of medicine must be horrid now.
From what I'm seeing of posts on here, it must be the schools telling about how great the field is. I see posts from posters claiming they are going to school for this or that in medicine, but who posts that kind of stuff online? Must be schools.

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

@ Sad RPh in PA. I'm sorry you had to endure the situation you did and I hate to make excuses for bad and unprofessional behavior but it's rampant today. It's difficult to say what was going on in the company at that time. They could have really been counting on that contract and when they didn't get it there was a cascading effect. It seems today that everyone wants a great deal. Maybe they took that deal with so little profit and it was devastating to them when they didn't get it, I just do not know.

I'm on the phone all day long and 99.9% of peoples voice messages say how important your call is to them and they will call you back at their earliest convenience. I can count on one hand how many return calls I get in a month! People are just so busy today that I don't take it personally. With the radical changes that have come in the pharmacy job market, and so quickly, it's a bitter pill to swallow when just a few years ago you were so heavily recruited. Hang in there as it will turn around!!

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

@ xboxer in Tucson, Arizona. Although this is only one example, and I hope it's an isolated one, I did have a professor at one College of Pharmacy contact me to help them find jobs for their new grads as they were struggling to place them. He also knew the future was going to get even more difficult. That same College of Pharmacy soon afterwards contacted a staff member of mine, a Pharmacy Tech, in an effort to persuade her to return to their school for her PharmD! Again, I hope this was an isolated case.

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xboxer in Tucson, Arizona

16 months ago

Kevin in San Antonio, Texas said: @ xboxer in Tucson, Arizona. Although this is only one example, and I hope it's an isolated one, I did have a professor at one College of Pharmacy contact me to help them find jobs for their new grads as they were struggling to place them. He also knew the future was going to get even more difficult. That same College of Pharmacy soon afterwards contacted a staff member of mine, a Pharmacy Tech, in an effort to persuade her to return to their school for her PharmD! Again, I hope this was an isolated case.

In a lot of jobs, they replace us with students. The students think they are the next big thing and think they are better.

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jaymichaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

16 months ago

xboxer in Tucson, Arizona said: In a lot of jobs, they replace us with students. The students think they are the next big thing and think they are better.

When you combine college students that will not listen to current veteran pharmacists and articles like this that only emphasize money, it fuels the destruction of the profession. Wonder if Mark Lowery got paid by colleges or retail giants?

‘Pharmacist’ best healthcare job for 2015
December 12, 2014 By Mark Lowery, Content Editor
That’s according to Forbes, which picked pharmacist as the top healthcare job for 2015 because of average annual salaries of more than $116,000 and a projected growth rate of 14% by 2022.

Forbes’ list was partially based on a list produced by CareerCast, a job search website that recently released its own list of the 10 top jobs in healthcare. The CareerCast list did not rank the occupations, which also included audiologist, dental hygienist, dietitian, medical lab technician, medical technologist, optician, physical therapist, physiologist, and podiatrist.

Pharmacists among most-trusted professionals

There was no mention by Forbes or CareerCast of the growing concern among many pharmacists that a glut of pharmacy schools and job projections that are too-rosy might lead to widespread joblessness, especially for older pharmacists.

According to CareerCast Publisher Tony Lee, more than 200 healthcare occupations were evaluated according to five different criteria. Lee said the highest ratings were given to healthcare occupations with promising income and job-growth projections. Points were also given for pleasant work environments, low stress, and modest physical demands. Lee said pharmacists have “a lot of freedom and flexibility” and that most get satisfaction from helping patients.

Data from Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, and the American Dental Hygienist’s Association was also used.

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jaymichaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

16 months ago

I am sorry, Tony Lee may have paid by colleges or retail, not Mark Lowery

Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania said: When you combine college students that will not listen to current veteran pharmacists and articles like this that only emphasize money, it fuels the destruction of the profession. Wonder if Mark Lowery got paid by colleges or retail giants?

‘Pharmacist’ best healthcare job for 2015
December 12, 2014 By Mark Lowery, Content Editor
That’s according to Forbes, which picked pharmacist as the top healthcare job for 2015 because of average annual salaries of more than $116,000 and a projected growth rate of 14% by 2022.

Forbes’ list was partially based on a list produced by CareerCast, a job search website that recently released its own list of the 10 top jobs in healthcare. The CareerCast list did not rank the occupations, which also included audiologist, dental hygienist, dietitian, medical lab technician, medical technologist, optician, physical therapist, physiologist, and podiatrist.

Pharmacists among most-trusted professionals

There was no mention by Forbes or CareerCast of the growing concern among many pharmacists that a glut of pharmacy schools and job projections that are too-rosy might lead to widespread joblessness, especially for older pharmacists.

According to CareerCast Publisher Tony Lee, more than 200 healthcare occupations were evaluated according to five different criteria. Lee said the highest ratings were given to healthcare occupations with promising income and job-growth projections. Points were also given for pleasant work environments, low stress, and modest physical demands. Lee said pharmacists have “a lot of freedom and flexibility” and that most get satisfaction from helping patients.

Data from Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, and the American Dental Hygienist’s Association was also used.

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xboxer in Tucson, Arizona

16 months ago

Good post. I have seen articles like that too. I am not a Pharmacist, but my field is saturated too. The general public thinks jobs abound in what I do. I get person after person telling me that their granddaughter or son "wants to go into this." They are all excited about the idea. They don't understand that it's a real life of drudgery, long hours, lowered pay, and having to work harder than you ever have before.

Like the article you posted and your comment regarding how they never were concerned about the glut of schools, etc., I never see anyone speaking up.

I got told by a student that she will find a job, even though there aren't any, because she is a hard-worker. Well, I'm a hard-worker, too, and so are all of the other experienced people who cannot find jobs. Does she believe her work attitude will create a job for her?

The people who write articles like that are so removed from the real world. They care so little, so very little...that they don't even ask one Pharmacist what he/she thinks of the field or what's going on with it.

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

@ xboxer in Tucson, Arizona, It's like the old saying, The only problem with youth is that it's wasted on the young!

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

@ Jay Michaels. In my opinion, one of the big problems with these glowing articles on any profession is that most are based on either very subjective data or out of date data from various sources. I'm reading a very interesting report generated by the government in 2008 which still painted a very rosy picture of pharmacy employment. Again it was all based on historical data from the same sources that projected the 157,000 pharmacist shortfall by 2020 back in 2000. As it's the old liars can figure but figures don't lie the job market for pharmacists dramatically changed in 2007. I'm not going to wait for the government to get around to updating their #'s so I'm going to do it. My findings may be based on partly the # of job listings on PharmacyWeek.com and anecdotal information but I would trust those #'s over the government's anytime. I'll report my findings here before the end of the year.

If anyone is interested I write a weekly column for our newsletter covering a range of pharmacy topics. Send me your email address and I'll get you subscribed. My email is kevin@pharmacyweek.com, thanks and Merry Christmas to all of those celebrating!!

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

@ xboxer in Tucson, Arizona. Your last line in your post reminds me of a great line my father used to use. I'm sure he borrowed it from someone but it still applies.

The world is full of apathetic and ignorant people but I don't know and I don't care! Lol!!

@ xboxer in Tucson, Arizona wrote: The people who write articles like that are so removed from the real world. They care so little, so very little...that they don't even ask one Pharmacist what he/she thinks of the field or what's going on with it.

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

16 months ago

Kevin
Just the raw numbers would be very telling of the present outlook. How many new schools have opened or are about to open in last ten years? Also how has enrollment numbers increased.

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

@ ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee. Here is my recap of the Highlights for 2013 & 2012 from the American Assoc. of Colleges of Pharmacy (AACP) site for Student Applications, Enrollments and Degrees Conferred . We should have 2014 #'s in March so I will post here. See the link at the bottom for the data source. (It's too long so will post in two pieces)

Applications down from 99,821 in 2012 to 87,956 in 2013. Third year in a row now for declines. 8.1% decline for 2011-12 and 12.0% decline for 2012-13. I read previously that applications for 2010-11 were approx. 112,000 so this would be an 11% drop for 2010-11.

Attrition rate up for 2013 at 11.1% and 10.2% for 2012
Enrollment for 2013 was flat after being up 4.5% for 2012

The only metric going up are the # of new PharmD's which is to be expected. 2011 had 11,931, 2012 had 12,719, and 2013 had 13,207 but this will begin to soon reverse itself due to enrollment dropping.

HIGHLIGHTS for 2013

In 2012-13, there were 87,956 applications submitted to first professional degree programs at schools and colleges of pharmacy.

The number of Pharm.D. as a first professional degrees awarded increased to 13,207 in 2013 compared to 12,719 in 2012. This is the largest number of degrees conferred in the history of pharmacy education.

The attrition rate for the class of 2013 was 11.1%. The attrition rate includes academic dismissals, student withdrawals, and delayed graduations.

Enrollments in all professional years rose 2.9 percent; however, the number of first professional year enrollments remained flat (from 14,011 in 2012 to 14,008 in 2013).

The number of Pharm.D. degrees conferred to individuals already holding a professional baccalaureate in pharmacy decreased to 344 in 2013 compared to 444 in 2012. The number of individuals enrolled in postbaccalaureate Pharm.D. programs decreased to 1,118 from 1,260 enrolled in fall 2012.

The number of M.S. degrees conferred decreased 3.8 percent in 2012-13

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

(Continued post so see post above first so the following makes sense. Kevin)

HIGHLIGHTS for 2012

The number applications to first professional degree programs decreased for the second year in a row. In 2011-12, there were 99,821 applications submitted to first professional degree programs at schools and colleges of pharmacy.

The number of Pharm.D. as a first professional degrees awarded increased to 12,719 in 2012 compared to 11,931 in 2011. This is the largest number of degrees conferred in the history of pharmacy education.

Enrollments in all professional years rose 4.5 percent, and the number of first professional year enrollments rose 4.1 percent (from 13,464 in 2011 to 14,011 in 2012).

The attrition rate for the class of 2012 was 10.2%.

The number of Pharm.D. degrees conferred to individuals already holding a professional baccalaureate in pharmacy increased to 444 in 2012 compared to 415 in 2011. The number of individuals enrolled in postbaccalaureate Pharm.D. programs decreased to 1,260 from 1,341 enrolled in fall 2011.

The number of M.S. degrees conferred decreased 17.2 percent in 2011-12 and the number of Ph.D. degrees conferred increased 5.5 percent.

Student Applications, Enrollments and Degrees Conferred
www.aacp.org/resources/research/institutionalresearch/Pages/StudentApplications,EnrollmentsandDegreesConferred.aspx

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

(Continued post so see posts above first so the following makes sense. Kevin)

@ ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee. Wingate Univ. School of Pharmacy opened in 2003 to pharmacy students and it was # 85. Since then 56 more schools have opened or have planned to open, taking us to a total of 141. On top of this see the following blog post. If all correct this could take us to 146 schools. (1 new for Wisconsin, 1 new for Mississippi & 3 new for New York State)

The Pharmacy School Bubble Is About to Burst!!
pharmacyweekblog.com/2014/09/30/the-pharmacy-school-bubble-is-about-to-burst/

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

Kevin in San Antonio, Texas said: (Continued post so see post above first so the following makes sense. Kevin)

HIGHLIGHTS for 2012

The number applications to first professional degree programs decreased for the second year in a row. In 2011-12, there were 99,821 applications submitted to first professional degree programs at schools and colleges of pharmacy.

The number of Pharm.D. as a first professional degrees awarded increased to 12,719 in 2012 compared to 11,931 in 2011. This is the largest number of degrees conferred in the history of pharmacy education.

Enrollments in all professional years rose 4.5 percent, and the number of first professional year enrollments rose 4.1 percent (from 13,464 in 2011 to 14,011 in 2012).

The attrition rate for the class of 2012 was 10.2%.

The number of Pharm.D. degrees conferred to individuals already holding a professional baccalaureate in pharmacy increased to 444 in 2012 compared to 415 in 2011. The number of individuals enrolled in postbaccalaureate Pharm.D. programs decreased to 1,260 from 1,341 enrolled in fall 2011.

The number of M.S. degrees conferred decreased 17.2 percent in 2011-12 and the number of Ph.D. degrees conferred increased 5.5 percent.

Student Applications, Enrollments and Degrees Conferred
www.aacp.org/resources/research/institutionalresearch/Pages/StudentApplications ,EnrollmentsandDegreesConferred.aspx

Link changed to this one: www.aacp.org/resources/research/institutionalresearch/Pages/StudentApplications,EnrollmentsandDegreesConferred.aspx

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ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee

16 months ago

Kevin
Thanks for the very detailed post. Basically there are still seven applicants per slot in schools. This will still ensure all classes will be filled for sometime with a ever decreasing quality of students. The real scary number is the near doubling of schools over the last ten years. Which one will see the light and for the good of the student and the profession decide to be the first to close their doors?

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee said: Kevin
Thanks for the very detailed post. Basically there are still seven applicants per slot in schools. This will still ensure all classes will be filled for sometime with a ever decreasing quality of students. The real scary number is the near doubling of schools over the last ten years. Which one will see the light and for the good of the student and the profession decide to be the first to close their doors?

I posted a reply to you but am not seeing it, did you receive? Thanks!!

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Kevin in San Antonio, Texas

16 months ago

@ ddsrph in Tullahoma, Tennessee. Although it's difficult to say which school will see the light and voluntarily close I can't tell you. However the Univ of FL may have fired the first shot, see the following article.

UF Health News: UF Pharm.D. program to reduce class size, improve student-to-faculty ratio

I also read an interesting article on the global oil glut we're now having and the following article closely resembles what is going on in pharmacy. They used a term called the "prisoner's dilemma" and a theory called the “tragedy of the commons,” in which everyone who has access to a pasture grazes as many cattle there as possible—a rational decision that leads to the field being overgrazed and ruined.

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Distressed_PharmD in Glendale, California

15 months ago

Jay Michaels in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania said: When you combine college students that will not listen to current veteran pharmacists and articles like this that only emphasize money, it fuels the destruction of the profession. Wonder if Mark Lowery got paid by colleges or retail giants?

‘Pharmacist’ best healthcare job for 2015
December 12, 2014 By Mark Lowery, Content Editor
That’s according to Forbes, which picked pharmacist as the top healthcare job for 2015 because of average annual salaries of more than $116,000 and a projected growth rate of 14% by 2022.

Forbes’ list was partially based on a list produced by CareerCast, a job search website that recently released its own list of the 10 top jobs in healthcare. The CareerCast list did not rank the occupations, which also included audiologist, dental hygienist , dietitian , medical lab technician , medical technologist, optician, physical therapist, physiologist, and podiatrist.

Pharmacists among most-trusted professionals

There was no mention by Forbes or CareerCast of the growing concern among many pharmacists that a glut of pharmacy schools and job projections that are too-rosy might lead to widespread joblessness, especially for older pharmacists.

Data from Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration , and the American Dental Hygienist’s Association was also used.

I have over 10 years of inpatient and outpatient experience and can not find a job within reasonable driving distance. I am now applying for tech jobs to get my foot in the door. The pay may be good, but eventually its going to take a hard hit once companies realize how desperate the new unemployed pharmacists are.

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