Lies about pharmacist job market

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SIGH in Flushing, New York

64 months ago

For those of you who are still actively looking, what are you guys doing in the meantime (aside from job search, of course). I recently graduated and have been looking for a job for a while.

I feel like a big failure!

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calling all RPH in San Angelo, Texas

64 months ago

All you pharmacists on the east coast that are looking for jobs WE NEED YOU IN THE SOUTHERN BELT states!!! People get old and retire, where do they go? the SOUTH! Get your asses down here and work to serve the elderly in small communities where they will respect you and see you everyday!

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Misled Duped Betrayed New Graduates in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

I am new to this board's forum. Quick background, I have over 10 years of Clinical, and Nuclear pharmacy experience. Licensed in 5 states. Had major medical issue with hospitalization for over 6 mos. Been looking for a job in Chicago area since late March, and still UNEMPLOYED. Read all 8 pages of comments. I knew job market was tight, especially in Chicago, b/c of excess supply of pharmacy graduates from excessive # of pharmacy schools. The most annoying comments on this board are from new graduates who found "a Pharmacy" job within the first say 3 months of graduation commenting that jobs are plenty or a lot of palaver about "reinvention". They think "lies about pharmacist job market" are false. Congratulation to those who have found a job. I believe sooner or "much" later, few will find a pharmacy job. But this is not what you were presented with. Is it now? You were expecting 6-figure salary, and instant employment upon graduation! I believe everyone has heard of Supply and demand!
When I graduated there were about 72 schools graduating about 7000 pharmacist or so a year.That was the market. What they didn't tell you, was that there would be twice as many graduates. Last job I applied had 75+ applicants vs a handful 5 years ago. Majority of you have graduated from the excess pharmacy schools (expensive private schools) competing for few open positions that were not getting filled . What do you think is going to happen to salaries? Most will have to "reinvent" themselves, just to find "a" job. Also will learn that We are no longer indispensable, most pharmacy managers view their pharmacist as interchangeable cogs with no discernable value other than filling an open hole within a schedule, especially retail. You were deceived by illusion of facts that were empirically false. You have shifted the balance, by saturating the very lucrative market that you had envisioned.

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Misled Duped Betrayed New Graduates in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

I am new to this board's forum. Quick background, I have over 10 years of Clinical, and Nuclear pharmacy experience. Licensed in 5 states. Had major medical issue with hospitalization for over 6 mos. Been looking for a job in Chicago area since late March, and still UNEMPLOYED. Read all 8 pages of comments. I knew job market was tight, especially in Chicago, b/c of excess supply of pharmacy graduates from excessive # of pharmacy schools. The most annoying comments on this board are from new graduates who found "a Pharmacy" job within the first say 3 months of graduation commenting that jobs are plenty or a lot of palaver about "reinvention". They think "lies about pharmacist job market" are false, did 100% of your class find a job that fast? Happy for those who have found a job. I believe sooner or "much" later, few will find a pharmacy job. But this is not what you were presented with. Is it now? You were expecting 6-figure salary, and instant employment upon graduation! I believe everyone has heard of Supply and demand! When I graduated there were about 72 schools graduating about 7000 pharmacist or so a year.That was the market. What they didn't tell you, was that there would be twice as many graduates. Last job I applied had 75+ applicants vs a handful 5 years ago. Majority of you have graduated from the excess pharmacy schools (expensive private schools) competing for few open positions that were not getting filled . What do you think is going to happen to salaries? Most will have to "reinvent" themselves, just to find "a" job. Also will learn that We are no longer indispensable, most pharmacy managers view their pharmacist as interchangeable cogs with no discernable value other than filling an open hole within a schedule, especially retail. You were deceived by illusion of facts that were empirically false. You have shifted the balance, by saturating the very lucrative market that you had envisioned.

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Kambu in Baltimore, Maryland

63 months ago

Hello people,
I'm a pharmacist with 10yrs hospital experience, Pharm D...no residency. The job market is BAD, I consider myself lucky to have a job right now but looking around at what's happening in the job market, I'm VERY nervous.
There are NO jobs available. Too many graduates, it's a simple matter of demand and supply.
The pharmacy schools and leadership of the pharmacy profession are DEFRAUDING the rank and file members of the profession. Take the residency thing, there are so many hospitals offering residencies and they're doing it because the Fed Govt pays them BIG MONEY for each resident trained under some kind of education grant. They take the $150K govt money for the residency position and then pay the resident $30k/yr, for a cool six figure profit, most of which then goes into the pocket of the Hospital CEO and Pharmacy management as salary/bonus.
With Pharmacy schools its very straightforward, exactly the same thing as with Law schools and even the housing market. High returns in the form of potential salary have attracted A LOT of entrants into the pharmacy labor market. It's easy to create more pharmacists because just like law, the schls are INTRISNICALLY easy to create, it's just books and a few labs and teachers.
I could write a lot more. Pharmacy is DEAD, for now. It's not worth it for new students. Don't do it!!!

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Misled Duped Betrayed New Graduates in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

Kambu in Baltimore, Maryland said: Hello people,
I'm a pharmacist with 10yrs hospital experience, Pharm D...no residency. The job market is BAD, I consider myself lucky to have a job right now but looking around at what's happening in the job market, I'm VERY nervous...

You and I have similar background, except that you have a job. I just applied for a part time job at one of the hospitals here in Chicago Fri. And on Mon I received the automated reply of thank you, but no thank you, b/c of #of applicants. I saw this train wreck in the making coming about 10 years ago. I was in the back of the "train" then. I knew it was witnessing it about 3 years ago when I took me over 6 mos to find a job in TX and move from CA. I will be starting graduate school in a couple of weeks so that I can "Reinvent" myself. Looking at Medical School. It is competitive b/c they don't let "supply" to over run the "demand" by having stringent requirement to get in. There has been X #of medical schools , public and private, but it is well balanced and rightly so. If they are going to charge you so much for your education, they make sure that you can make a sufficient salary to make your investment pay(that is begining to change as well b/c of reimbursements on the compensation side ). You should have tried to get in the field when that balance was still maintained before the explosion of all these private (investment) pharmacy schools. Now, all these schools combined graduate almost twice the number of pharmacist than 10 years ago. But, the number of jobs has not doubled to absorb the excess. (You need to have # of jobs tripled so that not only absorb the added supply but still maintain that "shortage" so that the same trend that continue). Liked your explanation of "Residency". Brainwash every student to do one. Instead of doing 6 to 8 yrs, now you have to do 7 to 9 years to get the SAME job as 10 years ago. No new "job" positions are created for pharmacist with "residency".

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Misled Duped Betrayed New Graduates in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

UsedRph in Madison, Alabama said: When I had no work, I e-mailed the Kroger DM in my area. I had a proposal, I could work as a tech at tech wages ( that's right I am willing to be paid as a pharmacy tech) and help the PharmD. As such I could then have a slight chance to work for Kroger in the future.
It never received a reply.... You see all this money to create all these new Pharmacy schools, and all the student loan debt, benefits who? After you understand that one, do you think the leaders in corporate pharmacy and thier academic lachey's would admit they created too many pharmacy schools ? Of course not! these sociopath's do not know the word's I'm sorry or we made a mistake?
So they will push and get RPH's "On the GO" and out of the picture especially at the chains.

"these sociopath's do not know the word's I'm sorry or we made a mistake?" No , the word they understand is "$$$..." And they would tell you that their job is not to find jobs for their graduates. They are not "employment agency". Their job is just to help the poor souls, who enriched them, to pass the boards.

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Misled Duped Betrayed New Graduates in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

USCgrad2008 in Pasadena, California said: And for those of you under the delusion that we will fill the void in Ambulatory Care... Let me remind you that Coumadin is dying! 5 cost effective alternatives will soon be standard of care for the previous indications occupied by Coumadin. And pharmacist run anti-coagulation clinics will go the way of the Dodo bird.
As for the other niches hoping to be occupied by a pharmacist... why would you pay someone $125k/yr to do something a nurse, nurse practitioner or trained technician will do for $60k/yr.

@USCgrad, you live in Pasadena. That is where I bought my first condo not too far from the "old town" and the Rusnak car dealerships. I left the state late 2009. It took me 6 mos. to find a full time nightshift out in the middle of nowhere Texas. I got a measly bonus and moving expense and decent salary b/c of hospital experience. About 9 mos later they hired another pharmacist with no sign on bonus and lower rate than mine and still in the middle of nowhere TX. We also had a part time new graduate with "residency" who was band aiding several part time jobs. I am happy that I left CA.
I paid off my loans a long time ago. I have not found anything and is getting worse, fortunately I will be starting graduate school in a couple of weeks. You are on the right track. Payoff those loans asap. It is mind bugling what your monthly school loan payments are. And all the new students coming in for the promised "milk & honey" need to do a little bit of math & research.. B/c by the time you pay your taxes and your monthly loan payment. what you are left with, you could have done something that wouldn't have put you in over $150k in debt and another 4 years post B.S.(actually 5 with residency) and a less stressful work environment. Oh by the way, I did look into PA and talked to a PA recruiter whom was a PA himself. His advice was to stay out, b/c they are heading in our direction as well. We can talk.

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Plan B in Buffalo, New York

63 months ago

Misled Duped Betrayed New Graduates in Chicago, Illinois said:

@Misled/Duped,

What direction are you going in terms of grad studies, esp. since you have heard P.A. studies are going to reach supersaturation point just like Pharmacy? Thanks ahead for a reply.

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Misled Duped Betrayed New Graduates in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

Plan B in Buffalo, New York said: @Misled/Duped,

What direction are you going in terms of grad studies, esp. since you have heard P.A. studies are going to reach supersaturation point just like Pharmacy? Thanks ahead for a reply.

Hi, Where I am going with a grad. degree. Beside Pharmacy, my undergrad was Nuclear Medicine. I worked as a Nuc Med Tech before going to pharmacy school. And I worked in pharmacy till now. So, all of my work experience has been in healthcare. So, I wanted to be able to apply my "healthcare" experience and marry it with something else where I would be able to do at least the good old 6-figure salary and have the flexibility of working outside of healthcare if I decided to. I did not want to do "grunt" work anymore or play second fiddle to anybody else. I looked into "Healthcare informatics" or any of its variations i.e. pharmacy informatics, nurse informatics... Ruled it out (not enough space to go into detail). So I am going for a "CIO" position and my MS degree is what is going to get me from point "A" to point "B (CIO)" from a top 10 school in the country(I am going for the name and their alumni networking) And I will have the flexibility of going outside of healthcare. Also not a "CMIO". B/C after talking to a couple of friends who work for Alscript, Cerner, and Epic. They all said the same thing, the CMIO positions in hospitals are exclusively reserved for MD's (therefore any "healthcare" informatics positions are going to be reporting to the "MD" CMIO) Outside of that setting you could get a liaison or implementation position with one those software Co. In a nutshell, I did not want to limit myself to pharmacy or healthcare, did not want to do a lateral move just to get a "job"(within pharmacy or healthcare i.e. PA, PT, OT, Nursing...) and did not wish to go down in compensation. I want to guaranty myself a position in the "lifeboat" and for me the only way out is UP, and the only way up is OUT.

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Misled Duped Betrayed New Graduates in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

NO MORE JOB FOR RPH WITHOUT HOSPITAL EXP in Minneapolis, Minnesota said: I'VE BEEN APPLYING FOR JOB EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR THE PAST 10 MONTHS,I HAVEN'T GOT A SINGLE CALL EVEN FOR AN INTERVIEW
I'M PHARM.D, 5 YEARS RETAIL EXPERIENCE, NO HOSPITAL EXPERIENCE, LICENSED IN 2 STATES, MA AND PA
NOW, I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO START THINKING ABOUT OPENING MY OWN INDEPENDENT PHARMACY COZ I'LL GET LAID OFF IN LESS THAN A MONTH, I KNOW, IT'S GONNA BE BAD FOR MY PERSONAL LIFE BEING A WOMAN AND WORK 7 DAYS A WEEK LIKE THAT, BUT WHAT I CAN DO ?
MARRY A RICH HUSBAND THEN GO BACK TO SCHOOL ?? LOL...

I just hope, that you have paid off your loans by now if you have any. I am MN graduate as well. Back then when you took a job in retail, it was probably very enticing since they paid a little more. But, sometimes in life you have to settle for a little less, if it provides with more flexibility. My first advice to you is payoff your loans asap. Look at your status overall, if you think it will make any difference to do a residency (slavery for a year in lieu of a few initials) just to get another "job". But, long term wise, I would make plans to exit. Last time I spoke to R. Hadsall a few months back, he said that MN only has two Rph schools, Twin Cities and Duluth. I suppose all the neighboring schools graduates flocking up there.

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Misled Duped Betrayed New Graduates in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

Roger, Rph in Bethesda, Maryland said: You can see the market for pharmacists overall is steadily decreasing due to the expansion of existing schools and the creation of new ones. Of course this all depends on where the job is located (urban vs. rural) but it definitely is decreasing overall. Check out www.drugschools.com or www.pharmacymanpower.com which tracks the demand of pharmacists nationally and regionally.

This is how it was with rural areas, b/c I have worked at 3 different ones in my career. Rural Areas(back then)>>>>pharmacist scarcity >>>sign on bonuses +above average salary+a few pharmacist to pick from. Now>>>>no sign on bonus+market salary+ overwhelming # of applications.
Those positions are now filled for most part. That option is no longer there.

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Rph's falling off the turnip truck in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

Tony B PharmD RPH in Dallas, Texas said: I just graduated last year, had no problem getting a job, these people just want to to keep you away from pharmacy.

I graduated and now am in the highest tax bracket..not many jobs can say that...

KEEP OPENING MORE SCHOOLS!!! THE INTEREST IS THERE..

My job is stressfull, but thats why I make 100k+...

These people are a bunch of liars, stick with pharmacy its a great profession and 100k salary upon graduation!

You must be a graduate of one of the newly formed schools that you are taunting. I am curious to know if your entire graduating class had a " $100,000 pharmacy job" waiting for them? Isn't that one of your/their selling point, "a pharmacy job waiting for you upon graduation", but it is more like "100k salary, but take a number..."
You are right about "keep opening more schools, the interest is there", there is a sucker born every minute...or is it more like truck load of suckers born every minute.
And only $100,000 in Texas of all places with supposedly a "shortage" and a "stressful job". Wow, what happened to the sign on bonus + an office +one hour lunch and two breaks? You got short changed, Big time!

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

holmes in River Grove, Illinois said: Do not believe some of the lies being written here regarding lack of job opportunities for pharmacists. These liars are trying to scare people off from applying to pharmacy school because they fear that supply will overtake demand. Fact is, pharmacists make tons of money right out of school and there are and will be many job openings in the future. This is all just a feeble attempt to prevent people from entering this lucrative field. Liars!

Dude, where are these jobs you are talking about? I am looking for one of these jobs. I have been out since Dec. and my loans have kicked in. Could you point me in the direction?
Thank god I found you!

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IL RPh market is f*&%d

63 months ago

Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois said: Dude, where are these jobs you are talking about? I am looking for one of these jobs. I have been out since Dec. and my loans have kicked in. Could you point me in the direction?
Thank god I found you!

You new grads in your mid twenties are just too ignorant to listen what older pharmacists have to say. I can tell you that the only new jobs being created in Chicagoland is Marianos. Belongs to Roundys parent company. We only hire Rph at fulltime 35 hours a week because the company dosent want to pay for 40 a week. When I signed on 3 years ago they gave me $7500. When I graduated in 2005 I was offered 20k to work for Walgreens in Kenosha. Todays there are no bonus in southern wisconsin or Chicagoland. I'm not trying to scare off any new graduates because after working 5 years in my neck of the woods you will come to agree.

My boss recently told me that ifmy pharmacy isn't profitable my the end of its second year that Bob Mariano CEO will scrap the pharmacy and turn it into a bank!! Thats the reality.

I'm lucky I had 3 pharmacy jobs at one point... Full time retail part-time hospital and per-diem at temp agency in Milwaukee. I quit temp angency bc I needed a life outside of pharmacy. I work at hospital bc any retail Rph can be replaced in 24 hours in my area with a new grad for less money bc they are so desprate for work.

We are all screwed in this profession. We never needed more pharmacy schools. Big companies like WAG have so much lobbying power to push boards of pharmacy in their direction. If they can pass one law and convince more states that u can open a pharmacy with just technicians and Rph can verify and counsel for corperate when are we going to put all these Rphs. 30% or more of our profession is employeed by WAG or CVS. Do the math.

If they wanted to they could chop everyone sally back to 100k and we wouldn't be able to do a dam thing abt it

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flrph in miami, Florida

63 months ago

Or 80k or 60k.... It's coming. I took a "full time" position 4 months ago with W. I seldom get full time hours. When I ask why? I get no response from DM

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

IL RPh market is f*&%d said: You new grads in your mid twenties are just too ignorant to listen what older pharmacists have to say. I can tell you that the only new jobs being created in Chicagoland is Marianos. Belongs to Roundys parent company. We only hire Rph at fulltime 35 hours a week because the company dosent want to pay for 40 a week. When I signed on 3 years ago they gave me $7500. When I graduated in 2005 I was offered 20k to work for Walgreens in Kenosha. Todays there are no bonus in southern wisconsin or Chicagoland. I'm not trying to scare off any new graduates because after working 5 years in my neck of the woods you will come to agree.

My boss recently told me that ifmy pharmacy isn't profitable my the end of its second year that Bob Mariano CEO will scrap the pharmacy and turn it into a bank!! Thats the reality.

Thanks for the reply. But, It wasn't meant to be serious. It was a response to an idiotic ranting of an idiot. But, I have been there, I have done that. I graduated in the late 90's. As matter of fact last position I took 3 years ago, in the boonies of TX paid me a sign on bonus plus semi annual bonuses and above average salary and moving expenses(this was out in the middle of nowhere TX). And in proceeding years, they hired a couple of newbies 6 months apart with no sign on bonuses, and market rate (under 50). And it took me another 6 mos. to get that position. I knew we were heading for trouble when CA went from 3 pharmacy school to about 13, and abolished their own written exam(Now NAPLEX) I hope you that you have paid off all of your student loans, if you had any. You are experiencing it first hand as to what has been happening to pharmacy. You realize that even your position is not safe. I would pay off all my debt and start training for an alternative to fall back on. I was hospitalized for 4 Mos. and looking since Mar. I gave it 3 months, and proceeded with plan B. Graduate school.

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

flrph in miami, Florida said: Or 80k or 60k.... It's coming. I took a "full time" position 4 months ago with W. I seldom get full time hours. When I ask why? I get no response from DM

I was talking to a recruiter for a short term assignment. She told me that the pay is low. I said how low? $45/hr low. Now, this is how recruiters are also taking advantage of the GLUT. B/C, I was contacted by another recruiter who also had a short term assignment as well. Well, his turned out to be exactly the same position as hers. But with a slight difference, $48/hr. This is just to demonstrate that the downward slide has begun. $45/hr is what I made in my position about 12 years ago. Also, for short term assignments back then, they paid a premium, about 25% higher, to get a pharmacist . Recruiters get paid by the employers, but now they are taking a slice out of our slice of the pie.

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

John in Madison, New Jersey said: I find this whole discussion interesting. I always regretted not going to Pharmacy school, even though I eventually received MS degrees in med chem and in pharmaceutics. While all you "doctors" were making big bucks, I was slaving away for peanuts in a corporate lab twiddling test tubes. Ultimately, I went to law school, which turned out to be an even bigger mistake. For those of you contemplating law school as a way to "save" your career, I have news for you. Law is 10x more competitive than pharmacy school. Plus, you'll spend at least $150,000 getting that degree and then have to pass a bar exam (if you can). Then upon bar passage, you'll face your biggest hurdle ... finding a job that will allow you to pay off your massive student loan debt. Currently, I'm unemployed and it doesn't look good.

I can attest to that. One of my brothers is a graduate of Northwestern , JD LLM. And have been unemployed for over 3 years now. He started his own practice just to be able to pay his monthly loan payments. His minor in undergrad. was Accounting, working on completing his acct. degress and passing the CPA exam. I have been witnessing my field joining theirs. Another brother who is a periodontist surg. also a Northwestern Graduate. (Dentistry, which has gone through this a couple of decades ago.) Excess dental schools closed after they had flooded the market, # of applicants dropped. They had a taste of their own medicine. I will be starting graduate school this fall at Northwestern as well, trying to "reinvent" myself, again, out of pharmacy and healthcare. Sick of "reinvention". Amongst the three of us, by the time I graduate will have about 12 degrees. Looking back at my journey, sometimes I wonder if I should have been better off continuing on from high school wood shop to trade school and became a master carpenter...I sometimes get a case of "Is it greener on the other side!"

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

[QUOTE who="pwnttothemax in Columbus make yourself more attractive to the job market. imagine if every profession whined this much and tried to regulate who could go into a field. there would simply not be jobs for anyone. problem solved? DERP

"and tried to regulate who could go into a field. there would simply not be jobs for anyone" Are you from another plant? where they don't "regulate" the number of graduates, saturation, and yet there is a "job for everyone"! I think you have it the other way around. Are you sure you went to Pharmacy school and not a Fuzzy school?

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

ladybug in Evergreen Park, Illinois said: We really need to start thinking outside the box. Can you imagine what pharmacy is going to be like if pharmacists are not filling the prescriptions. The pharmacy is completely run by techs. It could happen from the looks of things. What are the pharmacists going to be doing? Pharmacists will be working in doctors' offices. Pharmacists will get the diagnosis from the docs and come up with a medication plan, write the prescriptions and hand it to the patient. The patient will take it to the corner drugstore and it will be filled by techs. Of course the techs will then have heightened responsibilities. They will have to start carrying liability insurance for the mistakes they will make. Techs will have to learn more about the medicine than they know now. The drug interactions will be caught by pharmacists before the script is even written. In hospitals, the pharmacists wont be in the pharmacy, they will be making rounds with doctors.

It never ceases to amaze me how brainwashed pharmacy students or new graduates are in their thinking, that somehow MDs are all ignorant imbeciles who lack any knowledge of drugs. That somehow their "pharmacology brain block" is missing and it is the pharmacist role to fill in the blank. Here is a good example of someone who drank the Kool Aid! For your own sake, I hope you are either working or have a position at whatever 5% university hospital you are trained at. B/C once you graduate and get out of your "bubble" and end up in one of the other 95% you will be "enlightened." And I do mean it in a kind way.

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

Jennie in Ireland said: remember the pharmacist is the first healthcare professional that people will come to seek advice from..a pharmacist should have pride in their knowledge and capacity to inform and advise. For those who think it more than pill counting, which it should be, they will succeed no matter what. and although a huge wage would be nice, it should not be the only reason to do a degree in something, one should have the aim of enhancing the profession, not belittling it

Jennie,
Out in Ireland, are most retail pharmacies independents? Do they outnumber Chains? Are you shackled by insurance reimbursements like we are here in the states or not? But, those don't hold true here. Corp. America and their retail chain pharmacies have reduced us to "pill counters". And since they hold our paychecks, and therefore our leash , we have no choice but to be a pill counter. So, for pharmacist to go beyond their "pill counting"(actually do what we are trained to do) in this environment is like committing suicide. Remember the Golden rule, one who holds the gold rules. Well, we don't hold the gold(one can argue that we have the "license", but unfortunately the scarcity of our license no longer holds true. It does not wield the power, as it did before).

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ro22tol in Bismarck, North Dakota

63 months ago

I had no clue that things have become so bad. I graduated in the late 80's. Worked a few years in AZ (retail then hospital). Moved to ND (hospital) for the quality of life and to raise a family. I have been at the same place for close to 25 years. Our pay has always been a lot less than the rest of the county, but has steadily increased every year. For the most part, we have always had openings. The other day, I thought that since my kids are now in college, that I might want to work somewhere else. I keep a WA and AZ license. I was shocked at the lack of jobs. Guess I will stay where I am at until things improve elsewhere. The economy is booming here. This discussion has been very informative and wish you well in you job searching.

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Brian in Dublin, Ireland

63 months ago

Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois said: Jennie,
Out in Ireland, are most retail pharmacies independents? Do they outnumber Chains? Are you shackled by insurance reimbursements like we are here in the states or not? But, those don't hold true here. Corp. America and their retail chain pharmacies have reduced us to "pill counters". And since they hold our paychecks, and therefo....

Most pharmacies in Ireland were thriving independents with a tightly regulated market and very few (in fact just one) pharmacy school. Predictably this didn't last but even the cynic in me was shocked at the rapidity of the downfall. In the last 5-10 years large chains have begun to dominate the landscape, one of the largest, Boots has now been purchased by Walgreens. Unlike you we don't have third party insurers rather the government is responsible for paying fees and mark ups on prescribed medication. Three years ago they instituted a unilateral cut in fees and mark ups wiping a sizable chunk off the margin in retail pharmacy. Irish independent pharmacists undertook industrial action in response but this was a fractious affair as the big chains all remained open and absorbed the business. Since then there have been progressive cuts year upon year and now there are 5 pharmacy schools on the island of Ireland, which may not sound like alot but bear in mind relative populations. More pharmacy graduates are planned and the chains are proliferating like a virus. The net consequences has been significantly reduced salaries (about $43K-48K$ starting, hourly rates for locums/per diem work hover around $22-$35 p/h.

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

PA SHMEE-A in Adrian, Michigan said: My friend agreed with also. He said that although some of these private for PharmD only schools, do provide you experience and how to pass boards, that they cater to people who had difficulty getting in traditional university school programs, some are probably good students but as with all of these schools also more likely to let subpar performers get in, especially if they can afford to pay. Another words these schools are not interested in weeding out nor keeping an over demand. And the ones who got the 3.9's and all the extra ECs and Voulunteer while and doing intern and free hours, may not have a job because of all the 2.7's -3.0 GPAs ( i'm sure not all) that go to these schools. GPA's at these schools could potentially if needed be inflated-so they look better in the work search0. So the guy with a 3.4 at a big Ten school is competing with a PharmD (vocational type) school with an inflated 3.8 (but had a 2.8 in pre-pharm), both passed for the same job.

Thank you. I have had experience working with new graduates from a few of these schools in both CA and TX. They had to look up information for which you are supposedly gone to school for and need to know. Every Rph will have the opportunity of working with one of them very soon. As far as your "good students" instead of reapplying, they took the easy way out without doing their homework. To graduate with over $150k+ in debt for a job that was paying about $100k just doesn't add up. It didn't add up then with a handful of private schools, but instant employment was present. If your debt is greater than a year's worth of salary that a field pays, then it is not practical. One of the drawing factor was the vanishing "high salary". You nailed this one right on the head.

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Scared for Rx in New York, New York

63 months ago

Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois said:

As someone who will graduate Pharmacy School next May, I totally agree with you with everything you said except for one thing: the students are the "best" with the 3.7+ GPA, extracurriculars, Dean's List awards are no better than the subpar GPA students. The school curricula stress memorization instead of critical thinking. Many students in my class are A+ students, but if you ask them after an exam what they were tested on, they cannot tell you. Pharmacy schools (nowadays) teach how to memorize, memorize and memorize whether they be powerpoint slides or guidelines. There is no room for critical thinking. The schools have failed teaching hence the need for these residencies. And even then, a PGY 1 AND PGY2 will not guarantee a good pharmacist, just a really good automaton!

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flrph in miami, Florida

63 months ago

It as all about memorization 30 years ago also. It was the only way to get through the curriculum.

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IL RPhs are so f*&Ked in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

63 months ago

Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois said:

I agree with MILK and HONEY. I have the majority of my student loan paid off. I know techs right now that are dying to get into a expensive pharm D program that is less then 2 years old. She says that 29k a year isn't that bad??? These young bucks are so foolish.

What made pharmacy a elite profession was the fact that there weren't that many of us. The Registered Pharmacist licence ment something. Now that the number of school have quadrupled in many states. And getting an education loan is easier then getting a creditcard if your have poor credit. Anyone can become a pharmacist. This is the American Dream right if it were up to Obama every American should get a student loan and education and become a pharmacist???

Pharmacist have no voice. Our profession has elected 2 voices similar to the republican and democratic party. Its called Walgreens and CVS. They priorities as public companies is to protect profits and shareholder value. Biggest problem with the profession is that these companies aren't lobbying for us they are lobbying for themselves. If they bring in more money it pads their pockets (earnings per share) not ours.

In medicine there are Medical organizations fighting for Medicare reimbusement. If they get more money for those claims they will see that spill into their bank accounts. This is the downside to our profession. As a whole we don't own pharmacies we don't lobby for ourselves. We suck.

If we were a smarter profession we would have made 1 year residency a requirement 10 years ago. This would have prevented these make shift pharmacy schools from sprouting up in every city in America.

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Frustrated in Stillwater, Minnesota

63 months ago

I haven't had success in WI or MN looking for a job in the remotest boondocks. I've been out of work for a year. I have 22 years of experience and 16 years as a manager. In 2007 I had 3 job offers. Now both MN and WI have started a second pharmacy school. Wages are depressed and competition high. You have a much better chance of getting a job when you are just graduating if there is an opening where you work or are doing your clinicals. We had a resident leaving our hospital in 2009 and she could only get a part time job at Cub Foods and she didnt even want to be retail! Its all she could get. I didnt get into this to be retired at 49 or have to go back to school and accumulate more debt! What a sham. 38 new pharmacy schools opened in the last 5 years. I hate to be negative but Im sorry I went into this field. I should've became a PA.

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Hello 12 in Glasgow, United Kingdom

63 months ago

PA equally as bad

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Where is the promised milk and honey in in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

Frustrated in Stillwater, Minnesota said: I haven't had success in WI or MN looking for a job in the remotest boondocks. I've been out of work for a year. I have 22 years of experience and 16 years as a manager. In 2007 I had 3 job offers. Now both MN and WI have started a second pharmacy school. I didnt get into this to be retired at 49 or have to go back to school and accumulate more debt! What a sham. 38 new pharmacy schools opened in the last 5 years. I hate to be negative but Im sorry I went into this field. I should've became a PA.

Wow, you graduated about 5 years before I. I am a MN grad. as well. You live in Stillwater, I love that town. You almost had it made, with the exception of the job. My advisor was R. Hadsall, ring a bell? He wrote me a reference letter to graduate school. I thought it was better up there in MN and WI at least for a while, I guess not. Where is WI's 2nd beside Madison? I take it, it's a private school! I was aware of Duluth campus, which is twin cities sister campus. You know, even with the 2nd school up there in MN, you guys would have been Ok. I am willing to bet what is making it worse are the new graduates from out of state. I am in the same boat as you. "forced" retirement at about the same age. I have over 12 years of clinical hospital experience. I lost my job a year ago due to long hospitalization. I am not surprised by this at all. I am originally from CA, and saw the the # of Rph schools go from 3 to around or about 13 or so. This is not what I had envisioned either. I am not married, at least not anymore, and have no kids. I have already started graduate school at NU here in Chicago. It is going to cost me a few more dollars, but I think it is going to payoff in the long run as well as paving the way out of this Rph "Saturation" mess. I will be able to work outside of healthcare or can marry it with my healthcare experience to end up in the upper up management. Your Resident, MN grad or out of state?

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Where is the promised milk and honey in in Chicago, Illinois

63 months ago

Hello 12 in Glasgow, United Kingdom said: PA equally as bad

Yes it is. Didn't have enough room to talk about that in response to @Frustrated in Stillwater. When I decided to go back to school, I looked at all the possibilities in healthcare(with the exception of MD, age issue) including PA. It sounds good on paper, but it is not. I looked at their overall job market, and talked to a PA recruiter who, himself, was an experienced PA. He mentioned that PA's are not too far behind Rph's as far as saturation. So, by the time you get in and graduate , you will be back to where you were before. One other negative mark, IN MY OPINION, against PA was that I still had to work under a MD license. PA's are not independent practitioners either. But it is enticing , only about 2 to 2 1/2 to 3 years depending where you go. Also you have to take into consideration how much school is going to cost (a good number of them are private ). There are 5 up here in Chi town, and 4 are private. Very similar to OD program. That was another possibility. I looked into . The private OD school here in Chi town, what they charge is totally ludacris. by the time you go through their 4 1/2 year program, with tuition and other cost, you end up with over $250,000 in debt. For a job that average about $70-90k. Majority of graduates end up working for a retail Chain optometry shop/practice. But, I do give them credit, their work environment is much much better than ours.

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Frustrated in Stillwater, Minnesota

62 months ago

I applied to every retail store opening I could find and had no luck at all in WI or MN even in the little towns. Now I have been applying to PBMs and hospitals through listings that recruiters have been posting. I'm having better luck getting interviews there since the recruiter is actually looking at my CV and experience and not someone in HR that is just looking at whether or not I have a pharmD. I finally applied to Shenandoah University for the non-traditional pharmD. I didnt realize how much it weighed on me until after I applied and now I feel so relieved that I will never have to wonder again if its because I dont have a pharmD. It will cost $34k but I think it will be worth it. Then I plan to get board certified in a specialty. That's my plan of attack. I did apply to hospitals in rural areas and now getting calls for interviews. I guess it will be harder for someone like me to work retail without having worked for a major chain for very long. I have worked every other weekend for most of my career and it looks like it will continue on ad infinitum. The other university in WI is Concordia and I heard their class size is 300?? not sure if that is true but it would be pretty scary.

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The mad pharmacist in Wilmington, North Carolina

62 months ago

The current state of pharmacy is horrible. Those that are saying something else are likely lying or are members of management. You should do more research outside your current area. The corporate bosses are loving the surplus of pharmacists. They can make you do things you never thought you would have to do. Safety is no longer a concern, it's only a concern when something bad happens and it is usually blamed on you. The majority have spoken on the this forum. The schools are lying to students. All they care about is the huge tuition their getting. What goes around comes around my friend. Those that are telling us the job market isn't bad, think they are better than us. If you don't stand with us, then your against us. Pick a new forum to write on if you don't have the respect to conduct quality research about the current pharmacy job market before post. This market not only affects us but also are families. Don't mess with my family.

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IL RPh market is f-ed in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

62 months ago

The mad pharmacist in Wilmington, North Carolina said: The current state of pharmacy is horrible. Those that are saying something else are likely lying or are members of management. You should do more research outside your current area. The corporate bosses are loving the surplus of pharmacists. They can make you do things you never thought you would have to do. Safety is no longer a concern, it's only a concern when something bad happens and it is usually blamed on you. The majority have spoken on the this forum. The schools are lying to students. All they care about is the huge tuition their getting. What goes around comes around my friend. Those that are telling us the job market isn't bad, think they are better than us. If you don't stand with us, then your against us. Pick a new forum to write on if you don't have the respect to conduct quality research about the current pharmacy job market before post. This market not only affects us but also are families. Don't mess with my family.

I agree with Mad Carolina Rph. The CEO of my grocery store chain wants us to stand in front of our pharmacy and randomly start walking up to shopper and bug them and tell them about our pharmacy. Remember when TCF banks used to annoy you to open a checking account while you shopped. That is what i do. Pretty ridiculous that i have to who*#e myself out for a company because they are too cheap to advertise our pharmacy. When I went to pharmacy school and graduated in 2005 I had no idea i was going to be standing infront of my pharmacy with business cards and coupon vouchers for transfers. This whole topic is sad and makes me wish I tried harder to get into medical school. I have zero job security here. They told me if we don't start making money they turn this pharmacy into a bank. We have been open 14 months and average 190 scrips a week. The company I work for has us all by the b*#ls and I don't see anything positive going forward.

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Frustrated in Stillwater, Minnesota

62 months ago

I have been getting some hospital interviews in small remote towns and one overnight 7 on 7 off position locally. Finally got an interview for a relief pharmacist position at Target. The Pharmacist in charge graduated last year!! and the HR person looked like she was about the same age...early to mid 20's. They asked me behavioral based interview questions and started rolling their eyes when my answers were a little too long for them. How immature! What does my ability to answer those questions concisely have to do with my ability as a pharmacist? Honestly I suck at those kind of interviews. Ask me about pharmacy and what I have accomplished and Im fine. Ive practiced pharmacy as long as those girls have been alive. I got turned down as I expected after a 2 hour interview. I wonder is this the direction Target is going? Im not impressed. I wouldnt want to work for someone who is so immature. Not the kind of atmosphere I want to work in. I have gotten second interviews at 2 hospitals and 1 PBM. Im hoping on the PBM. HR person was refreshingly down to earth and she said the pharmacy manager was too. Fingers crossed! Still intent on getting that PharmD and a board specialty as insurance for the future. Its a very rocky road and I feel bad for the new grads. This job market is totally different than any time in the last 22 years. If I wanted to switch jobs I would apply and if I was qualified I would get it. I never experienced the rejection Ive seen in the last 3 months. It a whole different ballgame!

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hardwrkrphNJ in New Brunswick, New Jersey

62 months ago

Frustrated in Stillwater, Minnesota said: I have been getting some hospital interviews in small remote towns and one overnight 7 on 7 off position locally. Finally got an interview for a relief pharmacist position at Target. The Pharmacist in charge graduated last year!! and the HR person looked like she was about the same age...early to mid 20's. They asked me behavioral based interview questions and started rolling their eyes when my answers were a little too long for them. How immature! What does my ability to answer those questions concisely have to do with my ability as a pharmacist? Honestly I suck at those kind of interviews. Ask me about pharmacy and what I have accomplished and Im fine. Ive practiced pharmacy as long as those girls have been alive. I got turned down as I expected after a 2 hour interview. I wonder is this the direction Target is going? Im not impressed. I wouldnt want to work for someone who is so immature. Not the kind of atmosphere I want to work in. I have gotten second interviews at 2 hospitals and 1 PBM. Im hoping on the PBM. HR person was refreshingly down to earth and she said the pharmacy manager was too. Fingers crossed! Still intent on getting that PharmD and a board specialty as insurance for the future. Its a very rocky road and I feel bad for the new grads. This job market is totally different than any time in the last 22 years. If I wfanted to switch jobs I would apply and if I was qualified I would get it. I gnever experienced rejection Ive seen in the last 3 months. It a whole different ballgame![/QUOTE
Hello Good luck in your job search!!I have worked retail the majority of my career and it is the pits. I was told by a new graduate that the retails want young fresh faces so they let go of all the older pharmacist and management. When he was telling me this I wonder where does he think he would be in ten years? If they are going to be constantly replacing the pharmacies with new graduates no one job is secure

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RPH Jobseeker in Roswell, Georgia

62 months ago

Chancery in Atlanta, Georgia said: How right you are about trends being set against pharmacists. Supply and demand are the keys to every capitalistic market. Schools have already skewed the supply so badly that people are taking jobs in places they never would have even 3 yrs. ago. As for me I have been in pharmacy 34 yrs. and would advise all of you pre-pharm students to go into medicine. You will always be needed, you will have a hell of a lot more prestige and demand will always be on your side. To the guys my age,we had it made because we came along when the chains grew exponentially , salaries increased yearly and for a long time third party did not affect us. We were in great demand because of these circumstances. Now monetary pressures on employers as a result of poor third party payments have made working conditions horrible with no improvement in sight. In other words the golden age of pharmacy is gone forever except for the scoundrels that keep building new pharmacy schools. They will continue to line their pockets by suckering the ignorant into believing that pharmacy will always have a bright future.

I agree with you 100% I worked for retail for over 14 years in Atlanta then was laid off along with a few other pharmacist with about the same years of experience because we were all high paid salary pharmacists. Then new pharmacy graduates were hired to do our jobs with lower salary. I'm sure if this trend does not change, pretty soon the same thing will happen to them this is how pharmacy career is going down. I think there should be a limit in all states as far as how many pharmacist are trained every year compare to how many of them are needed for our society. Considering all the time, money and energy used to train one pharmacist, our society can use all these resources for something that is more in demand.

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Sad pharmacist in Charlotte, North Carolina

62 months ago

Obviously you are not a pharmacist, if you are saying there are plenty of lucrative jobs for pharmacists! I have been in pharmacy for 16 years and recently lost my job due to an independent pharmacy downsizing. I have been searching for a job high and low to no avail. I apply for every job that is listed every day in every state that I am licensed in, and seldom get a call back. The couple calls back I received it turned into nothing. The available jobs are few and far between, and the ones that are available are for specialty pharmacy, such as clinical. Plus every pharmacist job opening seems to get about 2000 job applications, so the competition is great and very few people ever hear back.
But, by the way, if you happen to know where a great job is for an experienced, educated pharmacist in or around Knoxville Tennessee, please let me know. I'm looking!

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RPH Jobseeker in Roswell, Georgia

62 months ago

Actually I am looking too I have been looking for job for the pat 3 years. I live in GA & licensed in GA with 14 years of experience in community/retail pharmacy.

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Ladybug1978 in Glenview, Illinois

62 months ago

What are the chances of a pharmacist with 33 years experience who has been out of the work force for a year to get back in it? All these posts seem pretty negative for job possibilities.

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Frustrated in Stillwater, Minnesota

62 months ago

I would just keep plugging away. I am finally getting some interviews after trying since July. I am finding I have to be very creative in my job search. I applied for a relief pharmacist position at Target because I couldnt get hired for a regular staff position. You have to go under the store jobs section and not the pharmacist career section. Just to get your foot in the door and possibly get hired full time from that. Also, it looks like they want you to be vaccine certified and have MTM experience for retail so that was my next move. If you can send your resume to an actual recruiter like on CVS website they have an email address for a recruiter, your CV will actually get looked at by a person who knows something about pharmacy instead of a HR person. I used Linked In to get in touch with previous coworkers and got an interview from that. I would apply at RPh on the go and any temp agencies. I have applied to at least 50 or so jobs. Some companies are still more concerned with how much experience you have and still value it. It is very difficult these days for us but you may run across someone who is tired of dealing with young, inexperienced pharmacists and wants someone whose hand they dont have to hold as much. You might also have to apply for a job outside your comfort level or area of expertise. I became a lot more willing to move for a job after being turned down so much. Some of these stratgies have paid off and I am finally getting interviews. Good luck!

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The mad pharmacist in Wilmington, North Carolina

62 months ago

I am glad to see so many pharmacists are expressing their frustration on this forum. When need to get this information out to the current pharmacy students across the country. The surplus will eventually end but let us make it sooner than later. Not sure how to get in through these young students heads that they are wasting their time thinking they will have an enjoyable career. Keep venting, eventually these kids will understand what is going on.

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disappointedpharmdinraleighnc in Raleigh, North Carolina

62 months ago

Hello my pharmacist friends- I would like to thank you all for this very enlightening forum. I too have been unemployed now since January 2012 in NC with no call backs and no interviews - only rejection emails. I have been volunteering to work at a new independent pharmacy to set up an MTM program just to try and keep my mind active. Last night after several glasses of wine and a crying spell, I typed in unemployed pharmacists in NC and this forum popped up. It has helped me realize that I am not alone. It has also helped me understand the harsh economic perspective.

My story: I returned to PharmD/MBA school in my mid 30's and graduated in 2006 magna cum laude. I still owe on my school loan, have a huge promise to fulfill to my husband (that I would make things better for us by taking off 5 years from work and marriage), and I have a huge hole in my heart that this may just have been for nothing. Originally I had wanted to return to medical school, however, my husband disagreed and so we separated for 6 months. We reconciled with the compromise of my attending pharmacy school.

The part that my heart has the most difficulty accepting about unemployment is that I worked so hard for those years that I find it almost impossible to toss it aside like it didn't mean anything. How do you get over this?

So - I have burned through my savings during this period and I am now on the verge of applying to Pottery Barn. My heart aches. The only retail pharmacy lead I have is 2 hours away in a very small town where I grew up. This would mean living there during the week and coming home when I am off.

But thank you all again for enlightening me on the truth of the situation. By the way, does anyone know if retail chains still make you sign contracts for a certain period of employment if there are no more sign on bonuses? I have only worked for independents since graduation.

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Frustrated in Stillwater, Minnesota

62 months ago

[QUOTE. By the way, does anyone know if retail chains still make you sign contracts for a certain period of employment if there are no more sign on bonuses? I have only worked for independents since graduation.
No there is no commitment period if no bonus. You should look for ads placed by recruiters because you have a better chance of getting an interview. Have you looked at telepharmacy to work from home? There is Pipeline and Telecameron. You might have to get licensed in another state if there is no need in NC. They wanted me to get licensed in Illinois after they had placed an ad for WI pharmacists. I would just do anything to lessen the employment gap. Apply for per diem or relief pharmacist work just to get your foot in the door. These people just have to get to know you. Target is going towards hiring their own relief pharmacists instead of paying the outrageous rates of RPh on the Go. I wonder how many pharm schools there are in NC? Must be a lot! Have you looked at PBMs? There are a lot here but you kinda have to know someone in the company for some of them. I got lucky and got an interview with United Health Group. Keeping my fingers crossed. I also applied for a overnights position 7on 7off in a hospital even though I hate overnights. Just to get working again. You may just have to move :( I have considered it and I know its hard but being flat broke is harder! Good Luck!

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RPH Jobseeker in Roswell, Georgia

62 months ago

Hello my fellow pharmacists;

I think aside from all the warnings we give to the new students who might be thinking about going to pharmacy school, we need to get our voices to our representatives in congress or any organization who is responsible for passing the laws or setting the regulations regarding the pharmacy profession to prevent nurses from doing our job. As you know currently all of the nursing homes or hospices are required to have one or more nurses on the board. However considering the number of patients & the medications used in these care centers and all the DURs & possible drug interactions there is no requirement to even have a part-time pharmacist at the site.

I believe it's part our own fault what ever happens to us. Physicians would never let pharmacists have the authority of writing prescriptions, but we just sit around and watch a bunch of nurses whose drug education level is not even close to that of the pharmacists', do our job and God knows cause how many problems. Also in all retails we know pharmacists are under a lot of pressure filling high number of prescriptions with no set rule as far as how much pressure they can put on a RPH shoulder and expect them to execute a good patient care with no mistakes. After all we are not retailers we are health care professionals.Our job needs as much attention as any other healthcare professional. There should be a limit number of Rx per RPH per day and after that limit the employer should be responsible for providing a relief RPH or be as accountable as the RPH for any mistake that can happen. These are just a couple examples of unprofessional attitudes toward pharmacists and there is no one to stand for our right.

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Ivan Von Messer in Boston, Massachusetts

62 months ago

PHARMACIST JOB MARKET IS DEAD!!! THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU BORROW SO MUCH MONEY TO GET A PHARMD DEGREE!!`

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kennedykelly in West Lafayette, Indiana

62 months ago

I'm currently in my P2 at Purdue and I am wondering if all of this job market talk is only for retail? I'm going into nuclear and, though I know I have an edge, I do not want to fight for a spot with kids from those money greedy pop-up schools. (The thought of those, btw, makes me sick. Why the ACPE does not see that our field is going down is beyond me) Also, what type of pharmacist jobs would you say will have the best outlook in the future. Thanks!

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Frustrated in Stillwater, Minnesota

62 months ago

Kennedy Kelly in West Lafayette, Indiana said: I'm currently in my P2 at Purdue and I am wondering if all of this job market talk is only for retail? I'm going into nuclear and, though I know I have an edge, I do not want to fight for a spot with kids from those money greedy pop-up schools. (The thought of those, btw, makes me sick. Why the ACPE does not see that our field is going down is beyond me) Also, what type of pharmacist jobs would you say will have the best outlook in the future. Thanks!

I think it applies to the whole job market but you are smart to specialize in nuclear. There still isnt a whole lot of nuclear pharmacists. Oncology as well. I have 20 yrs oncology experience but because I didnt do an oncology residency I dont get interviews. I got one finally through a recruiter. My next step is to get board certified in oncology to get an edge. Anything you can do beyond just getting your degree is going to help a lot like MTM certification, board certification etc. I think the market is going towards hiring new grads with more education/certifications vs. experience so you have that in your favor. If you dont have a job when you get close to graduation you should consider a residency.

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kennedykelly in West Lafayette, Indiana

62 months ago

Thanks for the response! At my school, we can specialize during our pharmd, I am in the middle of my 200 hour nuclear pharmacy certificate and am also in a nuclear pharm tech program. I understand the need to specialize, but unfortunately, some of my classmates don't. They expect to be handed offers for multiple 110k+ retail jobs just because Purdue is a great school. 75% of my class have no training in an type pharmacy besides the usual pharmd. So, when I see posts complaining about how a person can't find a retail pharmacy job in a big city like boston or nyc with only a pharmd, I get frustrated. The job market is bad, yes. But the demand for medicine is higher than ever, and it will keep going up. No amount of persuading will make me change my major. Pharmacy is a great career and to those reading this thread getting discouraged: do not quit if you love it. You will get a job. Maybe not the high paying, big city job of your dreams, but a job none the less. (sorry for my rant, but I've been reading threads like this one all day and I am just fed up with all the bs. Pharmacy is a great career and I feel like these threads are degrading it)

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