Lies about pharmacist job market

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Frustrated in Stillwater, Minnesota

33 months ago

Kennedy Kelly in West Lafayette, Indiana said: I'm currently in my P2 at Purdue and I am wondering if all of this job market talk is only for retail? I'm going into nuclear and, though I know I have an edge, I do not want to fight for a spot with kids from those money greedy pop-up schools. (The thought of those, btw, makes me sick. Why the ACPE does not see that our field is going down is beyond me) Also, what type of pharmacist jobs would you say will have the best outlook in the future. Thanks!

I think it applies to the whole job market but you are smart to specialize in nuclear. There still isnt a whole lot of nuclear pharmacists. Oncology as well. I have 20 yrs oncology experience but because I didnt do an oncology residency I dont get interviews. I got one finally through a recruiter. My next step is to get board certified in oncology to get an edge. Anything you can do beyond just getting your degree is going to help a lot like MTM certification, board certification etc. I think the market is going towards hiring new grads with more education/certifications vs. experience so you have that in your favor. If you dont have a job when you get close to graduation you should consider a residency.

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Kennedy Kelly in West Lafayette, Indiana

33 months ago

Thanks for the response! At my school, we can specialize during our pharmd, I am in the middle of my 200 hour nuclear pharmacy certificate and am also in a nuclear pharm tech program. I understand the need to specialize, but unfortunately, some of my classmates don't. They expect to be handed offers for multiple 110k+ retail jobs just because Purdue is a great school. 75% of my class have no training in an type pharmacy besides the usual pharmd. So, when I see posts complaining about how a person can't find a retail pharmacy job in a big city like boston or nyc with only a pharmd, I get frustrated. The job market is bad, yes. But the demand for medicine is higher than ever, and it will keep going up. No amount of persuading will make me change my major. Pharmacy is a great career and to those reading this thread getting discouraged: do not quit if you love it. You will get a job. Maybe not the high paying, big city job of your dreams, but a job none the less. (sorry for my rant, but I've been reading threads like this one all day and I am just fed up with all the bs. Pharmacy is a great career and I feel like these threads are degrading it)

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The mad pharmacist in Wilmington, North Carolina

33 months ago

I think you are making a great choice to specialize in nuclear. You may also need a residency. Just contact a nuclear HR department and they can let you know. You must understand we are not trying to degrade the profession. We are trying to get the truth out. Sign up to get 'Drug Topics' mag. Great articles telling the truth of were the profession is going. The pharmacy associations are doing nothing to help. Google 'pharmacy surplus' and read some of more creditable articles. I truly love the fact you are looking ahead at such a young age.

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Mortpes in Bradenton, Florida

33 months ago

The market is dead for many people and less so for others. The surplus affects all types of pharmacy. However, it is also true that all positions are now filled with people that will some day leave. It appears to be there is a transition to a new world for pharmacy. The basic PharmD degree is no longer the pass. The point is do not go into significant debt for the degree. A student must now look far ahead into additional certifications, etc and will very likely be mobile as well.

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Disappointed RPh in Annapolis, Maryland

33 months ago

There is a reason for the b.s. but its actually not b.s. its the truth. There are pharmacist out there that have been looking for a job for over a year without interviews or replies, so when you walk in their shoes then you can say that we need to stop the b.s. Those new pharmacy schools have no shame about lying to new students telling them that they will have no problem finding a job. You students are stupid and naive to believe them because they are only thinking about tuition money. They could careless about what is happening to the job market.

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Disappointed RPh in Annapolis, Maryland

33 months ago

Kennedy Kelly in West Lafayette, Indiana said: Please, don't treat me like a child. I have read up on the surplus and I know what is going on. I knew what was going on when I started this path 4 years ago. But I picked it because I got a good enough scholarship to Purdue so I won't be in debt, I love the field, and I know I can get a job. The reason for this surplus is not because of people like me. It's the people being pumped out of these money hungry, "here's your degree, pay at the door" schools. Or the people who get into this field not knowing anything about it and not gaining any extra experience besides pharmd. Or the people who won't relocate or work for a 5 digit salary. In fact, reading this thread, I haven't seen anyone saying they will work anywhere across the country. They usually name a big city. There isn't a nationwide surplus, it's only in big cities. If a person is really willing to be working pharmacy right now, they would be. Also, about 40% of the pharmacy work force is at about retiring age. Look at other facts besides the ones that support your opinions Do not put down other's dreams because you don't want to fight for a job or want a better salary. (Again, not directly pointed at you necessarily, but more towards the people who post in all caps that the pharmacy market is dead. That's just unnecessary and untrue. All of this just has me so fired up.)

It is not that easy to simply move across the country. I have an 8month old and a husband. Things are easy when you don't have responsibilities;mortgage,car payments,student loans etc. I have thousands of dollars in debt with no job in sight. SO things are not as simple as they appear, and the truth is that pharmacy is headed in a dangerous direction if nothing is done. THose money hungry schools have nearly destroyed our job market, but hopefully the market will correct itself and we can go back to being in demand again.

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P Juan in Loma Linda, California

33 months ago

Kennedy Kelly in West Lafayette, Indiana said: Please, don't treat me like a child. I have read up on the surplus and I know what is going on. I knew what was going on when I started this path 4 years ago. But I picked it because I got a good enough scholarship to Purdue so I won't be in debt, I love the field, and I know I can get a job. The reason for this surplus is not because of people like me. It's the people being pumped out of these money hungry, "here's your degree, pay at the door" schools. Or the people who get into this field not knowing anything about it and not gaining any extra experience besides pharmd. Or the people who won't relocate or work for a 5 digit salary. In fact, reading this thread, I haven't seen anyone saying they will work anywhere across the country. They usually name a big city . There isn't a nationwide surplus, it's only in big cities. If a person is really willing to be working pharmacy right now, they would be. Also, about 40% of the pharmacy work force is at about retiring age. Look at other facts besides the ones that support your opinions Do not put down other's dreams because you don't want to fight for a job or want a better salary. (Again, not directly pointed at you necessarily, but more towards the people who post in all caps that the pharmacy market is dead. That's just unnecessary and untrue. All of this just has me so fired up.)

Well put. Which small-town nuclear pharmacy do you have your eye on?

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

33 months ago

Kennedy Kelly in West Lafayette, Indiana said: Please, don't treat me like a child. I have read up on the surplus and I know what is going on. I knew what was going on when I started this path 4 years ago... (Previous treads regarding my background)
Like your enthusiasm and energy, but you are yet to enter the job market and face reality. In your previous tread, on page 8, commenting that "you get a job.." Yes everybody will sooner or later will get a job. But it may not be in pharmacy. They are selling a dream that was, graduate with a job waiting . Once you start working you will have a better understanding. Regarding specialization, all it is going to do is give you work Experience and a certificate. majority of you need to do one, just b/c everyone else has done one in order to get a pharmacy "job". And having it doesn't mean that you are going to get into a different position just reserved for graduates with residency. Pharmacy directors are not standing there, waiting for new grads with specialty to come along and replace their staff who have been there for 10, 15,20 years. And neither have they created an position for grads with specialty.Surplus is not only in big cities, it is across the country.My last position, before moving up here b/c of medical reason, was out in the middle of nowhere W. Texas. My director had over 25 applicants for my position. 25 applicants out there is like 100+ applicants in a metropolitan areas. This how it was, there was always an unfilled positions, plus "turnover" positions. The "unfilled" positions created to so called "shortage", that they sell to new applicants. Now, there is only "turnover" positions, which is very much like being an engineer. And yes, everybody will get a "job", when there is a turnover sooner or later, more likely later.Tread is too short to comment about the "40%" retiring...( For all to drop dead at once, therefore=>"40%" opening!)

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Dada in Bradenton, Florida

33 months ago

It is not that 40% of the workforce is retiring. It is that management would like to replace 40% of the workforce. The new retirement age for pharmacist is 50. These folks do a great job but if management is looking for a meet the public 24yr old the hair dye is just not going to cut it. Management does not look upon pharmacists as professionals but more as clerks.

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Gigi

33 months ago

If I might respond with truly the most positive of intention for our profession. I certainly know and understand that the big boys have a lot of power and will do as each corporation chooses from the top down. I understand that it is all about who can fill the Rx the fastest, cheapest etc.... I do think there are some easy and positive inroads we can make as a profession so that we can start being used for our expertise and not just a product. Most of us would not select the services we use strictly by location & cost. Would you pick your physician, your hairdresser, etc..that way? For many years we have worked as an unknown and the public has come to view us not as medical providers as a whole. It is us to us to take some steps to change this. Some really small things we can do in our everyday work are things like this: next time your tech asks a patient signing for a script at the register ask " Did you have any questions for the pharmacist?" have them use your name to Dr.,Mr, or use first name. Is it possible to have business cards? I don't know the chains policies but who knows. I realize the stress and time constraints, but in some down time could we not make a phone call to a patient who might need a bit extra instruction on a med. even if we leave a message? Baby steps with the goal in mind of becoming viewed as practitioners. Just a few thoughts.

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

33 months ago

Dada in Bradenton, Florida said: It is not that 40% of the workforce is retiring. It is that management would like to replace 40% of the workforce. The new retirement age for pharmacist is 50. These folks do a great job but if management is looking for a meet the public 24yr old the hair dye is just not going to cut it. Management does not look upon pharmacists as professionals but more as clerks.

It maybe true in retail, but not in Nuclear or Hospital where I have worked. Also, if the management is looking for a younger pharmacist is not b/c of
"meet the public 24yr old the hair dye..." it is b/c the older pharmacist who have been there a long time (let's just say "long time" in retail is anything over 5 years, being generous!), it is b/c they are at the top of their pay range vs somebody fresh out of school who starts at the base or bottom. And you are correct as far as being viewed as "Clerks", but still more expensive than a Clerk fresh out of "clerk school".

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

33 months ago

Just want to comment and see if I can make it simpler for people who don't understand the current job market vs what it was before all the private school graduates hit the market. This how it was, There would be an unfilled position (not a turn over) that was hard to fill due to lack of supply.
Say, hospital A needs 5 pharmacist, but been running short one, an unfilled position. Unfilled position due to lack of supply. Now a pharmacist from hospital B quits and joins hospital A. Now hospital B has the same issue, it is not just a turnover, but they inherit the same unfilled position from hospital A. Now if another pharmacist quit at hospital B, but they hire a replacement for that turn over, but the floating"unfilled" position is still there.
So, basically you had unfilled positions and turnovers. That is why the job market was great b/c there were not enough pharmacists to fill the unfilled positions , let alone fight for the turn over positions. Now with the unfilled positions all gone, pretty much across the country, the only jobs that everyone see are the turn over positions like any other field. So, when people comment that you are gonna get a "job", yes you are, but you have to wait for a turn over. But that is not what you were told, your expectation is to have a job or jobs to choose from waiting for you. What most of you fail to see is that you were sold on the old model. But, the reality is that due to a flooded market that model no longer holds true. Before, if you had experienced and moved to another position they hired you at the same or above salary level, b/c they had no choice. But, now they can hire a new graduate, for that matter, or any starving experienced pharmacist at the bottom of the salary range. Now everybody is fighting over the same turn over position. Yes, you will get a job, but not on a silver platter, more like waiting in a soup line. Hope that helps.

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More hopeful in Stillwater, Minnesota

33 months ago

Right. About 6 years ago there was a shortage of 400 pharmacists in MN. They started a second pharmacy school some years ago I want to say 8-10? Anyway with the extra 70 pharmacists a year from that school plus 66 pharmacists from Snyder Drug stores suddenly flooding the market after that chain closed in 2009...viola! There is a glut of pharmacists which is getting worse every year. Its not like there are new hospitals and retails going up all the time. In fact I heard Walgreens put a hold on some pharmacies they were planning to build here. I researched that there were 38 new pharmacy schools started since 2005 bringing the total to 130. There are 100 MD schools in the nation just to compare. The market cannot possibly sustain this level of pharmacists being let onto the market every year. Yes the population is aging but now its a pharmacist mill situation. We are lucky in MN that we only have 1 extra pharmacy school! So its difficult but still possible to get a job. How do we help this situation? Write to legislators, NABP, ASHP, our non-profit schools about the for profit schools? Idont know. A very big deal was made about the pharmacist shortage which wasnt really that bad and the response was exaggerated. I think we keep talking about it and get the word out. I would advise for those who are getting upset about reading this- that they stop following this forum. Those of us struggling need a place to vent and get advice and support.

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Dumbass kid in Phoenix, Arizona

33 months ago

So, from reading the comments here I should start thinking a different career? Or is it not to late to start a career?

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

33 months ago

Dumbass kid in Phoenix, Arizona said: So, from reading the comments here I should start thinking a different career? Or is it not to late to start a career?

Do your own research. Look into the working conditions, both hospital and retail. Look at what the salaries were and where they are heading now. It is so misleading when they tell you there are "plenty of jobs waiting for you when graduate". Look at this board, talk to new graduates, and read the articles addressing this very issue. You probably seen comments on this board from new graduates who have found a job, but the question to ask is that did your entire class get a Job? Did everyone have a job upon graduation, how many found one after 6 months, and how many are out there looking for over a year. There are no longer open positions for every graduate. Look at the legal field, lawyers. It used to be a very lucrative field. But it is not. The number of law schools out there graduating unemployed lawyers is just as ridiculous as is in pharmacy. Their number of unemployed is getting bigger and bigger each year. They went to law school b/c it is advertised, lawyers make over a $100k/yr. There is always one out of an entire class who lands a lucrative position(making over $120k/ 80+ hours a week. Which is more like working two $60k/year jobs). But, b/c one gets to make that much, the assumption is that everyone gets to make as much. It is not the rule, rather an exception. And that is what they advertise to new students. My youngest brother is a graduate of Northwestern Law who has been unemployed since 2009. Pharmacy has started down same path already. So research. Yes , you get a nice degree with a PharmD. after your name and a few initials, but don't expect a job immediately after graduation. There are not enough jobs to absorb about 13-14 thousand grads/yr. Do, do your math! Good luck.

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Dumbass kid in Phoenix, Arizona

33 months ago

IQUOTE who="Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois"]Do your own research. Look into the working conditions, both hospital and retail. Look at what the salaries were and where they are heading now. It is so misleading when they tell you there are "plenty of jobs waiting for you when graduate". Look at this board, talk to new graduates, and read the articles addressing this very issue. You probably seen comments on this board from new graduates who have found a job, but the question to ask is that did your entire class get a Job? Did everyone have a job upon graduation, how many found one after 6 months, and how many are out there looking for over a year. There are no longer open positions for every graduate. Look at the legal field, lawyers. It used to be a very lucrative field. But it is not. The number of law schools out there graduating unemployed lawyers is just as ridiculous as is in pharmacy. Their number of unemployed is getting bigger and bigger each year. They went to law school b/c it is advertised, lawyers make over a $100k/yr. There is always one out of an entire class who lands a lucrative position(making over $120k/ 80+ hours a week. Which is more like working two $60k/year jobs). But, b/c one gets to make that much, the assumption is that everyone gets to make as much. It is not the rule, rather an exception. And that is what they advertise to new students. My youngest brother is a graduate of Northwestern Law who has been unemployed since 2009. Pharmacy has started down same path already. So research. Yes , you get a nice degree with a PharmD. after your name and a few initials, but don't expect a job immediately after graduation. There are not enough jobs to absorb about 13-14 thousand grads/yr. Do, do your math! Good luck.
I see what your saying, thanks for the advice I'll look into it some more then.

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Janiceps in Round Lake, Illinois

33 months ago

Tony B PharmD RPH in Dallas, Texas said: I just graduated last year, had no problem getting a job, these people just want to to keep you away from pharmacy.

I graduated and now am in the highest tax bracket..not many jobs can say that...

KEEP OPENING MORE SCHOOLS!!! THE INTEREST IS THERE..

My job is stressfull, but thats why I make 100k+...

These people are a bunch of liars, stick with pharmacy its a great profession and 100k salary upon graduation!

Toni, please stop being ignorant. I have been a hospital pharmacist for last 14 years and also some retail for extra money. But and this is big BUT. This country is in serious trouble now for pharmacist market. There is rampant corruption out there with people opening up more and more pharmacy schools out of greed. and market is being flooded with NEW pharmacist with no jobs. You don't feel it yet cause Dallas is still fairly good market for pharmacists with expanding economy. Rest of the country is not the same. and is facing disaster with so many pharmacists coming out and NO jobs. I feel pain and anguish for those new students coming out and having no jobs. and Worst part of it is, it is going to get MUCH worse, Much worse.

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Janiceps in Round Lake, Illinois

33 months ago

Let us ALL pharmacists in this country UNITE and send our congressmen and STATE and National level, our concern for all these pharmacy schools opening up out of GREED and corruption. We must pass a law or legislation LIMITING amount of pharmacy school that can exist in each state.

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Disappointed RPh in Annapolis, Maryland

33 months ago

UsedRph in Madison, Alabama said: Worldwide trouble ahead.... and yes it is planned for us peasants....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd-SLRyuRq0
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY1EcCUu5nw

People will earn less of what we call money, PLUS stuff will become more expensive
fuel, food , and expect shortages in medicines... In fact Google "Drug Shortages"
Just like they( the banker elite ) basically screwed the entire planet. People better get thier proverbial "s_ _ T" together because were getting sh-tt-ed on now and will be sh-t on more in the future. To those pharmacists who are "waiting"... just get out there and get a job don't wait for your old salaries to come back because you are wasting your time. If you get a pharmacist full time job with all the bells and whistles, GOOD for you ! but like a game of musical chairs as the surplus increases the large corporate employers will continue to push average wages down by exploiting the underemployed pharmacists against the fully employed ones. We were told we needed 300 THOUSAND new pharmacist's in 2008...
What will we be told next... up is down, black is white, and hate really means to love less... University Deans are as crooked as the politicians who appoint them.

Amen to that!!!

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Disappointed RPh in Annapolis, Maryland

33 months ago

Janiceps in Round Lake, Illinois said: Let us ALL pharmacists in this country UNITE and send our congressmen and STATE and National level, our concern for all these pharmacy schools opening up out of GREED and corruption. We must pass a law or legislation LIMITING amount of pharmacy school that can exist in each state.

I agree, if anyone knows what organization is working on this issue,please post the info.We need advocates like the nurses have in this country. We are the people responsible for delivery excellent healthcare but we need to have a voice!!!

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UsedRph in Madison, Alabama

33 months ago

Disappointed RPh in Annapolis, Maryland said: Amen to that!!!

Pharmacy aside, people may want to learn about this....

www.caseyresearch.com/articles/feds-sole-purpose-keeping-banks-afloat-g-edward-griffin

I have a job and am grateful. Hey how about that cyanocobalamine injection shortage... Nice eh... ( At least where I live.... we are having a difficult time getting the 1ml bottles.. )
If you say we have too many pharmacist you piss off the credentialed "experts" in the field, you know the heads of APhA, The editors and owners of "Drug Topics" magazine and the wonderful paid corporate shills who write for them. You also piss off the deans of all the pharmacy schools who will not like anything "negative".
The school-retail chain-corporate owned-cartel that is THE major player in employing pharmacists would NEVER admit they collude... Why paint a bad picture, you can not recruit and get new people into student loan debt that way.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

33 months ago

JohnDoe in Angola, New York said: I seen your other post you started TonyB about how pharmacy is exploding, and you welcome new schools to open up as much as they want....It's quite obvious you are neither a pharmacist or pharmacy student. You probably are that one person who keeps accusing us of being "a bunch of liars", and you just started a fake name. Considering you are saying the exact same thing the other screen name was..."bunch of liars"....Why in the world would I want to keep everyone away from pharmacy? I would be happy if everyone in the world was a pharmacist, and makes great money...The simple fact that you welcome new schools opening just shows you are a fake. Do you not remember that little thing called supply and demand? So, stop making up fake names and do some homework. Us people like myself who are were in pharmacy school, and know a hell of alot more about the field than you are only trying to help...If you still want to become a pharmacist and take your chances, I wish you the best of luck!

John,
Those salesy posts are probably the schools trying to do damage control. They know they have flooded the market in almost every viable profession out there.
The owners of these schools are probably sitting on yachts sipping Merlot. People need stop patronizing them.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

33 months ago

Disappointed RPh in Annapolis, Maryland said: I agree, if anyone knows what organization is working on this issue,please post the info.We need advocates like the nurses have in this country. We are the people responsible for delivery excellent healthcare but we need to have a voice!!!

"Advocacy" is just like "community"...in theory only.

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UsedRph in Madison, Alabama

33 months ago

Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona said: John,
Those salesy posts are probably the schools trying to do damage control. They know they have flooded the market in almost every viable profession out there.
The owners of these schools are probably sitting on yachts sipping Merlot. People need stop patronizing them.

You are both right. A good person would not encourage a young person to go into a field that is saturated. Only a person who has something to hide or some other hidden agenda would deceive. The field is saturated, MTM is a fraud & is not a viable business model. "Drug Store News" and "Pharmacy Today" are frauds. Now if someone reading this believes that the field is wide open and can create an infinite number of "good paying jobs" they are lemmings. Here is a video of lemmings.... www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOOs8MaR1YM
So for those who doubt this GO FOR IT,!!!! pay that overpriced tuition, and Get THAT student loan & BELIEVE your professors, and GOOD LUCK !!!! YOU CAN DO IT !!!!

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

33 months ago

UsedRph in Madison, Alabama said: You are both right. A good person would not encourage a young person to go into a field that is saturated. Only a person who has something to hide or some other hidden agenda would deceive. The field is saturated, MTM is a fraud & is not a viable business model. "Drug Store News" and "Pharmacy Today" are frauds. Now if someone reading this believes that the field is wide open and can create an infinite number of "good paying jobs" they are lemmings. Here is a video of lemmings.... www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOOs8MaR1YM
So for those who doubt this GO FOR IT,!!!! pay that overpriced tuition, and Get THAT student loan & BELIEVE your professors, and GOOD LUCK !!!! YOU CAN DO IT !!!!

They do this with other professions too. Wherever there were openings, they flooded it and they continue to flood it. What baffles me is that people keep going to school in these professions.
I remember having a student at one facility, where I worked in a per diem capacity, and she was going to graduate, and she told me she was worried because there were no jobs out there. This really shocked me, because "no jobs" has been going on for years. They go to school, then get out and decide to look at the market?

Another sign of a crummy economy, when you docs are just employees like everyone else. First, there were partnerships, then firms, then affliations, now, everyone works for managed care or hospital groups.

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UsedRph in Madison, Alabama

33 months ago

Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona said: They do this with other professions too. Wherever there were openings, they flooded it and they continue to flood it. What baffles me is that people keep going to school in these professions.
I remember having a student at one facility, where I worked in a per diem capacity, and she was going to graduate, and she told me she was worried because there were no jobs out there. This really shocked me, because "no jobs" has been going on for years. They go to school, then get out and decide to look at the market?

Another sign of a crummy economy, when you docs are just employees like everyone else. First, there were partnerships, then firms, then affliations, now, everyone works for managed care or hospital groups.


Yes they do. This is happening all over society. It's hard to believe it but there are owners of these schools. The industry insiders knew what they were doing. They are not stupid, they have the power, influence & money to create the illusion of a shortage and make it appear as if there is one. To save face, they will do everything they can to push RPh's out of the system to employ as many PharmD's as they can and to dismiss older Rph's as being unqualified. This is one way how they will do damage control. In an earlier post I said if one's grades are good enough to get into an IVY League school, do that, and then major in finiance & economics.

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Wow1 in Indianapolis, Indiana

33 months ago

I'm burnt out as a high school chemistry teacher, with a BS in chemistry, secondary education, and MS in education. I often think to myself "I am smart, I should make more money for the crap I deal with. I will go back to school because if I made more, I could say to myself, I am still dealing with crap, but at least they pay me for it." I make 45K a year right now (after 8 years of teaching). And even if I am interested in going back to school (Butler with at least $125K in students loans) to become a clinical pharmacist working with oncology... it's a bad idea? I love working with people and doing something meaningful, but I really want a better life for my family. (I really liked the quote earlier that said, "Don't mess with my family." Truth!) I don't want to get out of school, loaded with debt, can't find a job, and the one I do find, I am only making the same 50K I would be making in 5 years from now anyway, or eventually the 65K I'd max out in about 15 years as a teacher. But damn, this economy sucks and life keeps getting expensive.

Anyone know anything about the Indianapolis area? Suggestions?

No, I do not want to be a PA. Nor do I want to do research (a BS chemistry makes the same as a teacher).

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Finally employed in Stillwater, Minnesota

33 months ago

I would say it is definitely dependent on the state you live in. Is there still just 2 pharmacy schools in Indiana? 38 new pharmacy schools have been created since 2005. It's hard to find out how many in each state from the internet. There is inaccurate info. Maybe contact the Indiana board of pharmacy to find out. They should have stats on whether or not there is a shortage there. If I were you I might get licensed in several states to increase your chances of getting a job. If you like oncology do a residency. Although that takes 2 extra years. I am getting board certified in oncology to become more marketable. I'll study on my own time while working. Maybe you can do like the Purdue nuclear pharmacy student and get board certified while in school and skip the residency. Being out there in the real world already, I suspect you will be more savvy than a 24 yr old who starts checking out the viability of their career prospects in their last year of pharmacy school. I say go for it. Its harder to find a job now depending on how many pharm schools in your state and salaries depend on that too. Apparently there are jobs in texas as people have stated. I got nervous when they added a 2nd pharmacy school in MN about 8 years ago. Its definitely made it harder to get a job in MN but not impossible. This is the first time I have been unemployed as a pharmacist for any length of time so it is very scary when it was so easy just 5 years ago to get multiple offers when I was looking. When you are in school make sure you work hard on establishing relationships at your clinical rotations so that they are interested in hiring you if they have an opening. I would do an internship if possible. Some people dont like to work during school but you likely will get hired at that company if they have an opening. Anyway, just got a job offer after looking full time since July. I got licensed in WI this summer and plan to get licensed in Fl for my semi-retirement.

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Wow1 in Indianapolis, Indiana

33 months ago

Finally employed in Stillwater, Minnesota said: Being out there in the real world already, I suspect you will be more savvy than a 24 yr old who starts checking out the viability of their career prospects in their last year of pharmacy school. I say go for it.

First all, I want to say thank you for noticing and giving me props with my "real world" experience. Additionally, I would never have thought to contact the Indiana board of pharmacy, I appreciate the suggestion. I just called earlier today and did not get an answer, so I sent an email.

And yes, you are correct, there are only 2 currently in Indiana that offer a PharmD degree - Purdue and Butler. However, Butler does not offer a nuclear pharmacy certification/degree. I am looking into Butler because of the location within Indianapolis. Additionally, I have no desire to move. Being 8 years out of school, I am already established in the Indianapolis area and my husband's job is here as well.

My biggest concerns are this: In 15 years or so, I will be making 65K as a teacher. In order for me to go back to school and get a degree that I am looking for (one that works with people and uses my science background), I am looking a field that would pay 90-100K+. With the high cost of the PharmD degree that's the only way that it would be worth it for me, at this point in life, for me to pursue. I'm certainly willing to invest money into my education and future career if it will pay off (literally and figuratively) in the future. I appreciate all that this forum has offerred me.

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Sam Kaiserblade in Venice, Florida

33 months ago

Wow1 in Indianapolis, Indiana said: First all, I want to say thank you for noticing and giving me props with my "real world" experience. Additionally, I would never have thought to contact the Indiana board of pharmacy, I appreciate the suggestion. I just called earlier today and did not get an answer, so I sent an email.

And yes, you are correct, there are only 2 currently in Indiana that offer a PharmD degree - Purdue and Butler. However, Butler does not offer a nuclear pharmacy certification/degree. I am looking into Butler because of the location within Indianapolis. Additionally, I have no desire to move. Being 8 years out of school, I am already established in the Indianapolis area and my husband's job is here as well.

My biggest concerns are this: In 15 years or so, I will be making 65K as a teacher. In order for me to go back to school and get a degree that I am looking for (one that works with people and uses my science background), I am looking a field that would pay 90-100K+. With the high cost of the PharmD degree that's the only way that it would be worth it for me, at this point in life, for me to pursue. I'm certainly willing to invest money into my education and future career if it will pay off (literally and figuratively) in the future. I appreciate all that this forum has offerred me.

I thought Manchester started a pharmacy program. Seems like Lilly gave them a lot of money. Isnt there 3 programs now?

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Finally employed in Stillwater, Minnesota

33 months ago

Youre right I looked it up. Manchesters program was slated to start this year (if their aggressive construction plan was on time) so in 2016 those pharmacists will be on the job market. Then any shortage there might be in Indiana will quickly be taken care of so the time would be soon if you want to go to school there. Right now salaries seem to be the same as they were 5 years ago at least for retail in MN. Benefits have gone down for sure. It's still a 6 figure job though. I also had a chemistry degree and have never regretted going back to pharmacy school. This year has been tough Im not going to lie. I will never again leave my job without having another. My father was ill so I was out a year taking care of him. My plan like I said is to get board certified in oncology or another specialty and hopefully MN doesnt build any more pharmacy schools!! It took me 4 months to find a job. New grads have the benefit of doing their rotations and a possible internship which helps you immensely in finding a job.

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Hello 12 in Glasgow, United Kingdom

33 months ago

Sure if you want a job that "workd with people", pharmacy is for you. You'll be able to fend off the hoards of bitching customers who are baying for your blood because their Rx is not ready due to no staff, argue over the phone with insurance companies and explain to your PDM why you haven't met their totally unrealistic targets. Sounds like you'll be perfect for this job :)

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Dada in Seminole, Florida

33 months ago

Hello I saw in one of the post someone mentioned seeking a second registration in Florida with the view of working in Florida as a semi retirement position. Please do not waste your money. In the last 10 years the market in Florida has changed 100%. The national company I worked for eliminated all part time jobs. The very few that attempted to stay eventually gave it up due to lack of help and work conditions. This made it far more difficult for the full time pharmacists to be off even in emergency.

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Dada in Seminole, Florida

33 months ago

Hello I saw a post from a teacher that seemed to be interested in pharmacy because of the income increase. Please consider that almost all pharmacy jobs today do not have a pension. And if you are offered health insurance even retired you have to pay for it. I was vested in one of the very early jobs but my pension from that job is only $300 per month. Pharmacy salaries are dropping as we speak. They can keep the same number but no cost of living increase so a drop yearly of 3% at least. Some offer profit sharing but the matches are little vs the actual cost of living. If you can avoid student debt perhaps it may be OK. Just take a very critical look at the math.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

33 months ago

Hello 12 in Glasgow, United Kingdom said: Sure if you want a job that "workd with people", pharmacy is for you. You'll be able to fend off the hoards of bitching customers who are baying for your blood because their Rx is not ready due to no staff, argue over the phone with insurance companies and explain to your PDM why you haven't met their totally unrealistic targets. Sounds like you'll be perfect for this job :)

That's because the insurance companies ruin everything and leave you guys to take the heat. You can see the schools doing damage control on here. Whenever there are jobs, they want to saturate the market and they know the employers love it.

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Vivekapply in pomona, California

33 months ago

Top 10 jobs in US are from health care field.So more and more colleges will be opened in healthcare sector. It will end when government will stop providing loan to each and every student.

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Wow1 in Indianapolis, Indiana

33 months ago

Finally employed in Stillwater, Minnesota said: I... have never regretted going back to pharmacy school...I will never again leave my job without having another...New grads have the benefit of doing their rotations and a possible internship which helps you immensely in finding a job.

1) You two are unfortunately right about Manchester University opening this fall in Indianapolis. This is very valuable knowledge to me. Their first graduate class would be 2016, I would be 2017. If it had been 2006 when I graduated, this would be a different story.
2) I think you are smart to get certified in oncology. You have given great advice about staying marketable in a tough time. On a personal note, I have much respect for anyone who works in any way with oncology patients. I wish you the best.
3) For the person who wrote about how pharmacy pensions have changed, I appreciate you pointing this out and sharing your truth. There are many aspects to each person's decisions to into a career. There are more things that go into the "math" than just salary, I second that.
An aside, I don't know many fields whose pay is following the yearly 3% inflation increase, mine is only 0.5%. I think this is why so many are feeling the pinch.
4) To the other person who wrote about teacher retirement, yes, I would be eligible to retire at 50, but no health benefits and only a fraction of my pension would I receive.
5) I will never view CVS/Walgreens in the same light.
6) I will continue to encourage my students to research a field as soon as possible and to ask the tough questions.
7) What will happen when all the baby boomers pass away?
8) This is a powerful forum. There is certainly strength in numbers. I hope this continues to grow for the sake of pharmacist representation.
9) I started studying for the PCAT last week. While I actually enjoyed studying and I remembered more calculus than I thought, I believe I am going to stop.
Thank you

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bittert in Pomona, California

33 months ago

While student loan debt and graduate unemployment continues to climb, the demand for a degree continues to increase. My school posts record enrollment figures nearly every year, and it saddens me to think that more and more people are being duped by the great lie that a health care college education will be an automatic ticket to a better life. It applied to all health care jobs PA, Dentistry , Nurses. market will be flooded with each profession and competition will be high and wages will go down

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Wow1 in Indianapolis, Indiana

33 months ago

bittert in Pomona, California said: While student loan debt and graduate unemployment continues to climb, the demand for a degree continues to increase. My school posts record enrollment figures nearly every year, and it saddens me to think that more and more people are being duped by the great lie that a health care college education will be an automatic ticket to a better life. It applied to all health care jobs PA, Dentistry , Nurses. market will be flooded with each profession and competition will be high and wages will go down

During my investigation into pharmD school, a clinical pharmacist shared this 2012 publication with me.

(I tried to copy and paste the link here, but the forum kept telling me my post was showing vulgar language) Follow this:
1) Go to thomasland.metapress.com/content
2) Search in FIND box (right-hand side of screen): "Impact of New Pharmcy Schools Cada". click GO (Dennis Cada is the author)
3) Click on PDF link

Stats are in the first paragraph, focus on the last sentence as well.

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UsedRph in Madison, Alabama

33 months ago

Thanks for the article on the impact of opening many new pharmacy schools. It's nice to see something that confirms what many out there already see.

The following link shows how the industry who's who thinks about these new developments. I think this is from one of the deans out there at a major pharmacy school. Excellent :
www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/76136/

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

33 months ago

bittert in Pomona, California said: While student loan debt and graduate unemployment continues to climb, the demand for a degree continues to increase. My school posts record enrollment figures nearly every year, and it saddens me to think that more and more people are being duped by the great lie that a health care college education will be an automatic ticket to a better life. It applied to all health care jobs PA, Dentistry , Nurses. market will be flooded with each profession and competition will be high and wages will go down

That's happened to all of the allied health jobs, anything that isn't nursing. I've talked to nurses who had trouble finding jobs. Experienced ones, so that is happening.

Yet, you see people post on these sites about how "lucky" they are to be accepted into a program. Yeah, they all accept you if they think you will be able to finish, because they want their money. They must think they will be better than everyone else.

The schools post there are jobs and if you are good, you will get a job. They feed people this bag of lies, and they keep believing it. People keep enrolling in these schools, and it's been years of high unemployment.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

33 months ago

There was an banner ad for Pharmacy Tech school, Sanford Brown at the bottom of my page before.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

33 months ago

Vivekapply in pomona, California said: Top 10 jobs in US are from health care field.So more and more colleges will be opened in healthcare sector. It will end when government will stop providing loan to each and every student.

That's what the schools say. Even the Outlook Handbook from the Govt.

But that's not reality. They aren't growing. It's saturated.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

33 months ago

Hello 12 in Glasgow, United Kingdom said: Sure if you want a job that "workd with people", pharmacy is for you. You'll be able to fend off the hoards of bitching customers who are baying for your blood because their Rx is not ready due to no staff, argue over the phone with insurance companies and explain to your PDM why you haven't met their totally unrealistic targets. Sounds like you'll be perfect for this job :)

Any healthcare job, actually.

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UsedRph in Madison, Alabama

33 months ago

Hello 12 in Glasgow, United Kingdom said: Sure if you want a job that "workd with people", pharmacy is for you. You'll be able to fend off the hoards of bitching customers who are baying for your blood because their Rx is not ready due to no staff, argue over the phone with insurance companies and explain to your PDM why you haven't met their totally unrealistic targets. Sounds like you'll be perfect for this job :)

The pharmacy schools in america have a great poster to CHALLENGE those skeptical individuals who are making claims of market saturation, wage deflation, crummy work conditions, and will thus will PROVE that THEY( and THEY alone !!! )... the credential experts, KNOW what the future... Here is their
poster www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/76136/

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

33 months ago

UsedRph in Madison, Alabama said: Yes they do. This is happening all over society. It's hard to believe it but there are owners of these schools. The industry insiders knew what they were doing. They are not stupid, they have the power, influence & money to create the illusion of a shortage and make it appear as if there is one. To save face, they will do everything they can to push RPh's out of the system to employ as many PharmD's as they can and to dismiss older Rph's as being unqualified. This is one way how they will do damage control. In an earlier post I said if one's grades are good enough to get into an IVY League school, do that, and then major in finiance & economics .

I've been complaining on here about these schools, and some of them went and chased me around on here. One complained, and I can't start any threads now.
The business of dismissing older people, yep...seen that in my profession too. And many places hire people out of school and want you to train them. I lost a job that way. After I had good reviews too.
I think the only way out is to start one's own business. I'd like to get a bunch of healthcare pros together as a consulting and marketing group for medicine.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

33 months ago

UsedRph in Madison, Alabama said: The pharmacy schools in america have a great poster to CHALLENGE those skeptical individuals who are making claims of market saturation, wage deflation, crummy work conditions, and will thus will PROVE that THEY( and THEY alone !!! )... the credential experts, KNOW what the future... Here is their
poster www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/76136/

Medicine is such a business now. I notice at the grocery stores how the pharmacies are open all the time now.
I remember when people had jobs and could go home on the weekends and be with family and friends. Now, they've convinced everyone they need stores open 24/7. They say that's what people want, but in reality, the businesses just want more money.

I feel like our skills and knowledge are treated like nothing, and we are treated like slaves by bean counters. I would imagine this will get worse as the graduates pour out of these schools.

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UsedRph in Madison, Alabama

32 months ago

Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona said: I've been complaining on here about these schools, and some of them went and chased me around on here. One complained, and I can't start any threads now.
The business of dismissing older people, yep...seen that in my profession too. And many places hire people out of school and want you to train them. I lost a job that way. After I had good reviews too.
I think the only way out is to start one's own business. I'd like to get a bunch of healthcare pros together as a consulting and marketing group for medicine.

I work at a pharmacy that was planing an expansion. But in today's world it's to big a risk... right now. Eventually these chains will be overextended, (if they are not already,) ( yes that means WAG's ,RAD, & CVS..) if you go to their websites you can see their empty crummy real estate holdings from the days they purchased the REVCO's, Thrifty Payless, K&B, Harco's,Eckards, Big B, and dozens of other small chains that were gobbled up, aided and abetted by the likes of Sam Zell ...Mr Real Estate .. hedge fund manager... and the so called pharmacist shortage was created... But all this massive debt will catch up with them. That;s why they are beating the sh*t out of thier staff's filling 400 plus RX's a day and the DM's are NEVER satisfied.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

32 months ago

Dada in Bradenton, Florida said: It is not that 40% of the workforce is retiring. It is that management would like to replace 40% of the workforce. The new retirement age for pharmacist is 50. These folks do a great job but if management is looking for a meet the public 24yr old the hair dye is just not going to cut it. Management does not look upon pharmacists as professionals but more as clerks.

They do this with a lot of professions now. They view us like we have no skills in any profession. Just what money they make off us.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

32 months ago

Kennedy Kelly in West Lafayette, Indiana said: Please, don't treat me like a child. I have read up on the surplus and I know what is going on. I knew what was going on when I started this path 4 years ago. But I picked it because I got a good enough scholarship to Purdue so I won't be in debt, I love the field, and I know I can get a job. The reason for this surplus is not because of people like me. It's the people being pumped out of these money hungry, "here's your degree, pay at the door" schools. Or the people who get into this field not knowing anything about it and not gaining any extra experience besides pharmd. Or the people who won't relocate or work for a 5 digit salary. In fact, reading this thread, I haven't seen anyone saying they will work anywhere across the country. They usually name a big city . There isn't a nationwide surplus, it's only in big cities. If a person is really willing to be working pharmacy right now, they would be. Also, about 40% of the pharmacy work force is at about retiring age. Look at other facts besides the ones that support your opinions Do not put down other's dreams because you don't want to fight for a job or want a better salary. (Again, not directly pointed at you necessarily, but more towards the people who post in all caps that the pharmacy market is dead. That's just unnecessary and untrue. All of this just has me so fired up.)

Why do you people use the word, "dreams" when referring to your job? It makes no sense.

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