Lies about pharmacist job market

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UsedRph in Madison, Alabama

28 months ago

Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona said: John,
Those salesy posts are probably the schools trying to do damage control. They know they have flooded the market in almost every viable profession out there.
The owners of these schools are probably sitting on yachts sipping Merlot. People need stop patronizing them.

You are both right. A good person would not encourage a young person to go into a field that is saturated. Only a person who has something to hide or some other hidden agenda would deceive. The field is saturated, MTM is a fraud & is not a viable business model. "Drug Store News" and "Pharmacy Today" are frauds. Now if someone reading this believes that the field is wide open and can create an infinite number of "good paying jobs" they are lemmings. Here is a video of lemmings.... www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOOs8MaR1YM
So for those who doubt this GO FOR IT,!!!! pay that overpriced tuition, and Get THAT student loan & BELIEVE your professors, and GOOD LUCK !!!! YOU CAN DO IT !!!!

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

28 months ago

UsedRph in Madison, Alabama said: You are both right. A good person would not encourage a young person to go into a field that is saturated. Only a person who has something to hide or some other hidden agenda would deceive. The field is saturated, MTM is a fraud & is not a viable business model. "Drug Store News" and "Pharmacy Today" are frauds. Now if someone reading this believes that the field is wide open and can create an infinite number of "good paying jobs" they are lemmings. Here is a video of lemmings.... www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOOs8MaR1YM
So for those who doubt this GO FOR IT,!!!! pay that overpriced tuition, and Get THAT student loan & BELIEVE your professors, and GOOD LUCK !!!! YOU CAN DO IT !!!!

They do this with other professions too. Wherever there were openings, they flooded it and they continue to flood it. What baffles me is that people keep going to school in these professions.
I remember having a student at one facility, where I worked in a per diem capacity, and she was going to graduate, and she told me she was worried because there were no jobs out there. This really shocked me, because "no jobs" has been going on for years. They go to school, then get out and decide to look at the market?

Another sign of a crummy economy, when you docs are just employees like everyone else. First, there were partnerships, then firms, then affliations, now, everyone works for managed care or hospital groups.

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UsedRph in Madison, Alabama

28 months ago

Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona said: They do this with other professions too. Wherever there were openings, they flooded it and they continue to flood it. What baffles me is that people keep going to school in these professions.
I remember having a student at one facility, where I worked in a per diem capacity, and she was going to graduate, and she told me she was worried because there were no jobs out there. This really shocked me, because "no jobs" has been going on for years. They go to school, then get out and decide to look at the market?

Another sign of a crummy economy, when you docs are just employees like everyone else. First, there were partnerships, then firms, then affliations, now, everyone works for managed care or hospital groups.


Yes they do. This is happening all over society. It's hard to believe it but there are owners of these schools. The industry insiders knew what they were doing. They are not stupid, they have the power, influence & money to create the illusion of a shortage and make it appear as if there is one. To save face, they will do everything they can to push RPh's out of the system to employ as many PharmD's as they can and to dismiss older Rph's as being unqualified. This is one way how they will do damage control. In an earlier post I said if one's grades are good enough to get into an IVY League school, do that, and then major in finiance & economics.

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Wow1 in Indianapolis, Indiana

28 months ago

I'm burnt out as a high school chemistry teacher, with a BS in chemistry, secondary education, and MS in education. I often think to myself "I am smart, I should make more money for the crap I deal with. I will go back to school because if I made more, I could say to myself, I am still dealing with crap, but at least they pay me for it." I make 45K a year right now (after 8 years of teaching). And even if I am interested in going back to school (Butler with at least $125K in students loans) to become a clinical pharmacist working with oncology... it's a bad idea? I love working with people and doing something meaningful, but I really want a better life for my family. (I really liked the quote earlier that said, "Don't mess with my family." Truth!) I don't want to get out of school, loaded with debt, can't find a job, and the one I do find, I am only making the same 50K I would be making in 5 years from now anyway, or eventually the 65K I'd max out in about 15 years as a teacher. But damn, this economy sucks and life keeps getting expensive.

Anyone know anything about the Indianapolis area? Suggestions?

No, I do not want to be a PA. Nor do I want to do research (a BS chemistry makes the same as a teacher).

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Finally employed in Stillwater, Minnesota

28 months ago

I would say it is definitely dependent on the state you live in. Is there still just 2 pharmacy schools in Indiana? 38 new pharmacy schools have been created since 2005. It's hard to find out how many in each state from the internet. There is inaccurate info. Maybe contact the Indiana board of pharmacy to find out. They should have stats on whether or not there is a shortage there. If I were you I might get licensed in several states to increase your chances of getting a job. If you like oncology do a residency. Although that takes 2 extra years. I am getting board certified in oncology to become more marketable. I'll study on my own time while working. Maybe you can do like the Purdue nuclear pharmacy student and get board certified while in school and skip the residency. Being out there in the real world already, I suspect you will be more savvy than a 24 yr old who starts checking out the viability of their career prospects in their last year of pharmacy school. I say go for it. Its harder to find a job now depending on how many pharm schools in your state and salaries depend on that too. Apparently there are jobs in texas as people have stated. I got nervous when they added a 2nd pharmacy school in MN about 8 years ago. Its definitely made it harder to get a job in MN but not impossible. This is the first time I have been unemployed as a pharmacist for any length of time so it is very scary when it was so easy just 5 years ago to get multiple offers when I was looking. When you are in school make sure you work hard on establishing relationships at your clinical rotations so that they are interested in hiring you if they have an opening. I would do an internship if possible. Some people dont like to work during school but you likely will get hired at that company if they have an opening. Anyway, just got a job offer after looking full time since July. I got licensed in WI this summer and plan to get licensed in Fl for my semi-retirement.

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Wow1 in Indianapolis, Indiana

28 months ago

Finally employed in Stillwater, Minnesota said: Being out there in the real world already, I suspect you will be more savvy than a 24 yr old who starts checking out the viability of their career prospects in their last year of pharmacy school. I say go for it.

First all, I want to say thank you for noticing and giving me props with my "real world" experience. Additionally, I would never have thought to contact the Indiana board of pharmacy, I appreciate the suggestion. I just called earlier today and did not get an answer, so I sent an email.

And yes, you are correct, there are only 2 currently in Indiana that offer a PharmD degree - Purdue and Butler. However, Butler does not offer a nuclear pharmacy certification/degree. I am looking into Butler because of the location within Indianapolis. Additionally, I have no desire to move. Being 8 years out of school, I am already established in the Indianapolis area and my husband's job is here as well.

My biggest concerns are this: In 15 years or so, I will be making 65K as a teacher. In order for me to go back to school and get a degree that I am looking for (one that works with people and uses my science background), I am looking a field that would pay 90-100K+. With the high cost of the PharmD degree that's the only way that it would be worth it for me, at this point in life, for me to pursue. I'm certainly willing to invest money into my education and future career if it will pay off (literally and figuratively) in the future. I appreciate all that this forum has offerred me.

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Sam Kaiserblade in Venice, Florida

28 months ago

Wow1 in Indianapolis, Indiana said: First all, I want to say thank you for noticing and giving me props with my "real world" experience. Additionally, I would never have thought to contact the Indiana board of pharmacy, I appreciate the suggestion. I just called earlier today and did not get an answer, so I sent an email.

And yes, you are correct, there are only 2 currently in Indiana that offer a PharmD degree - Purdue and Butler. However, Butler does not offer a nuclear pharmacy certification/degree. I am looking into Butler because of the location within Indianapolis. Additionally, I have no desire to move. Being 8 years out of school, I am already established in the Indianapolis area and my husband's job is here as well.

My biggest concerns are this: In 15 years or so, I will be making 65K as a teacher. In order for me to go back to school and get a degree that I am looking for (one that works with people and uses my science background), I am looking a field that would pay 90-100K+. With the high cost of the PharmD degree that's the only way that it would be worth it for me, at this point in life, for me to pursue. I'm certainly willing to invest money into my education and future career if it will pay off (literally and figuratively) in the future. I appreciate all that this forum has offerred me.

I thought Manchester started a pharmacy program. Seems like Lilly gave them a lot of money. Isnt there 3 programs now?

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Finally employed in Stillwater, Minnesota

28 months ago

Youre right I looked it up. Manchesters program was slated to start this year (if their aggressive construction plan was on time) so in 2016 those pharmacists will be on the job market. Then any shortage there might be in Indiana will quickly be taken care of so the time would be soon if you want to go to school there. Right now salaries seem to be the same as they were 5 years ago at least for retail in MN. Benefits have gone down for sure. It's still a 6 figure job though. I also had a chemistry degree and have never regretted going back to pharmacy school. This year has been tough Im not going to lie. I will never again leave my job without having another. My father was ill so I was out a year taking care of him. My plan like I said is to get board certified in oncology or another specialty and hopefully MN doesnt build any more pharmacy schools!! It took me 4 months to find a job. New grads have the benefit of doing their rotations and a possible internship which helps you immensely in finding a job.

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Hello 12 in Glasgow, United Kingdom

28 months ago

Sure if you want a job that "workd with people", pharmacy is for you. You'll be able to fend off the hoards of bitching customers who are baying for your blood because their Rx is not ready due to no staff, argue over the phone with insurance companies and explain to your PDM why you haven't met their totally unrealistic targets. Sounds like you'll be perfect for this job :)

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Dada in Seminole, Florida

28 months ago

Hello I saw in one of the post someone mentioned seeking a second registration in Florida with the view of working in Florida as a semi retirement position. Please do not waste your money. In the last 10 years the market in Florida has changed 100%. The national company I worked for eliminated all part time jobs. The very few that attempted to stay eventually gave it up due to lack of help and work conditions. This made it far more difficult for the full time pharmacists to be off even in emergency.

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Dada in Seminole, Florida

28 months ago

Hello I saw a post from a teacher that seemed to be interested in pharmacy because of the income increase. Please consider that almost all pharmacy jobs today do not have a pension. And if you are offered health insurance even retired you have to pay for it. I was vested in one of the very early jobs but my pension from that job is only $300 per month. Pharmacy salaries are dropping as we speak. They can keep the same number but no cost of living increase so a drop yearly of 3% at least. Some offer profit sharing but the matches are little vs the actual cost of living. If you can avoid student debt perhaps it may be OK. Just take a very critical look at the math.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

28 months ago

Hello 12 in Glasgow, United Kingdom said: Sure if you want a job that "workd with people", pharmacy is for you. You'll be able to fend off the hoards of bitching customers who are baying for your blood because their Rx is not ready due to no staff, argue over the phone with insurance companies and explain to your PDM why you haven't met their totally unrealistic targets. Sounds like you'll be perfect for this job :)

That's because the insurance companies ruin everything and leave you guys to take the heat. You can see the schools doing damage control on here. Whenever there are jobs, they want to saturate the market and they know the employers love it.

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Vivekapply in pomona, California

28 months ago

Top 10 jobs in US are from health care field.So more and more colleges will be opened in healthcare sector. It will end when government will stop providing loan to each and every student.

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Wow1 in Indianapolis, Indiana

27 months ago

Finally employed in Stillwater, Minnesota said: I... have never regretted going back to pharmacy school...I will never again leave my job without having another...New grads have the benefit of doing their rotations and a possible internship which helps you immensely in finding a job.

1) You two are unfortunately right about Manchester University opening this fall in Indianapolis. This is very valuable knowledge to me. Their first graduate class would be 2016, I would be 2017. If it had been 2006 when I graduated, this would be a different story.
2) I think you are smart to get certified in oncology. You have given great advice about staying marketable in a tough time. On a personal note, I have much respect for anyone who works in any way with oncology patients. I wish you the best.
3) For the person who wrote about how pharmacy pensions have changed, I appreciate you pointing this out and sharing your truth. There are many aspects to each person's decisions to into a career. There are more things that go into the "math" than just salary, I second that.
An aside, I don't know many fields whose pay is following the yearly 3% inflation increase, mine is only 0.5%. I think this is why so many are feeling the pinch.
4) To the other person who wrote about teacher retirement, yes, I would be eligible to retire at 50, but no health benefits and only a fraction of my pension would I receive.
5) I will never view CVS/Walgreens in the same light.
6) I will continue to encourage my students to research a field as soon as possible and to ask the tough questions.
7) What will happen when all the baby boomers pass away?
8) This is a powerful forum. There is certainly strength in numbers. I hope this continues to grow for the sake of pharmacist representation.
9) I started studying for the PCAT last week. While I actually enjoyed studying and I remembered more calculus than I thought, I believe I am going to stop.
Thank you

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bittert in Pomona, California

27 months ago

While student loan debt and graduate unemployment continues to climb, the demand for a degree continues to increase. My school posts record enrollment figures nearly every year, and it saddens me to think that more and more people are being duped by the great lie that a health care college education will be an automatic ticket to a better life. It applied to all health care jobs PA, Dentistry , Nurses. market will be flooded with each profession and competition will be high and wages will go down

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Wow1 in Indianapolis, Indiana

27 months ago

bittert in Pomona, California said: While student loan debt and graduate unemployment continues to climb, the demand for a degree continues to increase. My school posts record enrollment figures nearly every year, and it saddens me to think that more and more people are being duped by the great lie that a health care college education will be an automatic ticket to a better life. It applied to all health care jobs PA, Dentistry , Nurses. market will be flooded with each profession and competition will be high and wages will go down

During my investigation into pharmD school, a clinical pharmacist shared this 2012 publication with me.

(I tried to copy and paste the link here, but the forum kept telling me my post was showing vulgar language) Follow this:
1) Go to thomasland.metapress.com/content
2) Search in FIND box (right-hand side of screen): "Impact of New Pharmcy Schools Cada". click GO (Dennis Cada is the author)
3) Click on PDF link

Stats are in the first paragraph, focus on the last sentence as well.

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UsedRph in Madison, Alabama

27 months ago

Thanks for the article on the impact of opening many new pharmacy schools. It's nice to see something that confirms what many out there already see.

The following link shows how the industry who's who thinks about these new developments. I think this is from one of the deans out there at a major pharmacy school. Excellent :
www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/76136/

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

27 months ago

bittert in Pomona, California said: While student loan debt and graduate unemployment continues to climb, the demand for a degree continues to increase. My school posts record enrollment figures nearly every year, and it saddens me to think that more and more people are being duped by the great lie that a health care college education will be an automatic ticket to a better life. It applied to all health care jobs PA, Dentistry , Nurses. market will be flooded with each profession and competition will be high and wages will go down

That's happened to all of the allied health jobs, anything that isn't nursing. I've talked to nurses who had trouble finding jobs. Experienced ones, so that is happening.

Yet, you see people post on these sites about how "lucky" they are to be accepted into a program. Yeah, they all accept you if they think you will be able to finish, because they want their money. They must think they will be better than everyone else.

The schools post there are jobs and if you are good, you will get a job. They feed people this bag of lies, and they keep believing it. People keep enrolling in these schools, and it's been years of high unemployment.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

27 months ago

There was an banner ad for Pharmacy Tech school, Sanford Brown at the bottom of my page before.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

27 months ago

Vivekapply in pomona, California said: Top 10 jobs in US are from health care field.So more and more colleges will be opened in healthcare sector. It will end when government will stop providing loan to each and every student.

That's what the schools say. Even the Outlook Handbook from the Govt.

But that's not reality. They aren't growing. It's saturated.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

27 months ago

Hello 12 in Glasgow, United Kingdom said: Sure if you want a job that "workd with people", pharmacy is for you. You'll be able to fend off the hoards of bitching customers who are baying for your blood because their Rx is not ready due to no staff, argue over the phone with insurance companies and explain to your PDM why you haven't met their totally unrealistic targets. Sounds like you'll be perfect for this job :)

Any healthcare job, actually.

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UsedRph in Madison, Alabama

27 months ago

Hello 12 in Glasgow, United Kingdom said: Sure if you want a job that "workd with people", pharmacy is for you. You'll be able to fend off the hoards of bitching customers who are baying for your blood because their Rx is not ready due to no staff, argue over the phone with insurance companies and explain to your PDM why you haven't met their totally unrealistic targets. Sounds like you'll be perfect for this job :)

The pharmacy schools in america have a great poster to CHALLENGE those skeptical individuals who are making claims of market saturation, wage deflation, crummy work conditions, and will thus will PROVE that THEY( and THEY alone !!! )... the credential experts, KNOW what the future... Here is their
poster www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/76136/

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

27 months ago

UsedRph in Madison, Alabama said: Yes they do. This is happening all over society. It's hard to believe it but there are owners of these schools. The industry insiders knew what they were doing. They are not stupid, they have the power, influence & money to create the illusion of a shortage and make it appear as if there is one. To save face, they will do everything they can to push RPh's out of the system to employ as many PharmD's as they can and to dismiss older Rph's as being unqualified. This is one way how they will do damage control. In an earlier post I said if one's grades are good enough to get into an IVY League school, do that, and then major in finiance & economics .

I've been complaining on here about these schools, and some of them went and chased me around on here. One complained, and I can't start any threads now.
The business of dismissing older people, yep...seen that in my profession too. And many places hire people out of school and want you to train them. I lost a job that way. After I had good reviews too.
I think the only way out is to start one's own business. I'd like to get a bunch of healthcare pros together as a consulting and marketing group for medicine.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

27 months ago

UsedRph in Madison, Alabama said: The pharmacy schools in america have a great poster to CHALLENGE those skeptical individuals who are making claims of market saturation, wage deflation, crummy work conditions, and will thus will PROVE that THEY( and THEY alone !!! )... the credential experts, KNOW what the future... Here is their
poster www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/76136/

Medicine is such a business now. I notice at the grocery stores how the pharmacies are open all the time now.
I remember when people had jobs and could go home on the weekends and be with family and friends. Now, they've convinced everyone they need stores open 24/7. They say that's what people want, but in reality, the businesses just want more money.

I feel like our skills and knowledge are treated like nothing, and we are treated like slaves by bean counters. I would imagine this will get worse as the graduates pour out of these schools.

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UsedRph in Madison, Alabama

27 months ago

Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona said: I've been complaining on here about these schools, and some of them went and chased me around on here. One complained, and I can't start any threads now.
The business of dismissing older people, yep...seen that in my profession too. And many places hire people out of school and want you to train them. I lost a job that way. After I had good reviews too.
I think the only way out is to start one's own business. I'd like to get a bunch of healthcare pros together as a consulting and marketing group for medicine.

I work at a pharmacy that was planing an expansion. But in today's world it's to big a risk... right now. Eventually these chains will be overextended, (if they are not already,) ( yes that means WAG's ,RAD, & CVS..) if you go to their websites you can see their empty crummy real estate holdings from the days they purchased the REVCO's, Thrifty Payless, K&B, Harco's,Eckards, Big B, and dozens of other small chains that were gobbled up, aided and abetted by the likes of Sam Zell ...Mr Real Estate .. hedge fund manager... and the so called pharmacist shortage was created... But all this massive debt will catch up with them. That;s why they are beating the sh*t out of thier staff's filling 400 plus RX's a day and the DM's are NEVER satisfied.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

27 months ago

Dada in Bradenton, Florida said: It is not that 40% of the workforce is retiring. It is that management would like to replace 40% of the workforce. The new retirement age for pharmacist is 50. These folks do a great job but if management is looking for a meet the public 24yr old the hair dye is just not going to cut it. Management does not look upon pharmacists as professionals but more as clerks.

They do this with a lot of professions now. They view us like we have no skills in any profession. Just what money they make off us.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

27 months ago

Kennedy Kelly in West Lafayette, Indiana said: Please, don't treat me like a child. I have read up on the surplus and I know what is going on. I knew what was going on when I started this path 4 years ago. But I picked it because I got a good enough scholarship to Purdue so I won't be in debt, I love the field, and I know I can get a job. The reason for this surplus is not because of people like me. It's the people being pumped out of these money hungry, "here's your degree, pay at the door" schools. Or the people who get into this field not knowing anything about it and not gaining any extra experience besides pharmd. Or the people who won't relocate or work for a 5 digit salary. In fact, reading this thread, I haven't seen anyone saying they will work anywhere across the country. They usually name a big city . There isn't a nationwide surplus, it's only in big cities. If a person is really willing to be working pharmacy right now, they would be. Also, about 40% of the pharmacy work force is at about retiring age. Look at other facts besides the ones that support your opinions Do not put down other's dreams because you don't want to fight for a job or want a better salary. (Again, not directly pointed at you necessarily, but more towards the people who post in all caps that the pharmacy market is dead. That's just unnecessary and untrue. All of this just has me so fired up.)

Why do you people use the word, "dreams" when referring to your job? It makes no sense.

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RxLies in Wilmington, North Carolina

27 months ago

Great analysis. They are many comments being made here. Is everyone telling as many pharmacists as you can to look at these pages. We need to forward this to as many as we can. It will get to the students faster and they will realize the truth. It will also get to all the organizations that have made this mess.

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Don'tbelieveit in Phoenix, Arizona

27 months ago

Vivekapply in pomona, California said: Top 10 jobs in US are from health care field.So more and more colleges will be opened in healthcare sector. It will end when government will stop providing loan to each and every student.

Don't worry, the schools will find a way to supply loans.

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Amherst Healthcare in Fort Lauderdale, Florida

27 months ago

Hi,
I am seeking a Pharmacy Manager for an Independent pharmacy located in Wyoming. If anyone is qualified with Community Pharmacy experience, or Out patient pharmacy experience, then contact me.

This company is a great place to work because:
This is one of the largest in pharmacy when it comes to number of prescriptions filled per store, per day. Their pharmacists fill more than 12-million prescriptions a year. Their professional dedication to Retail Health makes them unique from other retailers. They believe patient education is essential to effective healthcare. They utilize strong levels of trained non-pharmacist personnel to allow their pharmacists time for private, one-on-one consultations with patients. They lead the country in pharmacist support.

Their ideal candidate has strong customer service, patient interactions skills and interest, and has worked in a Retail pharmacy setting. They are looking for a pharmacist who is ready for a management role and excited to grow a new business.

Position is located in rural Wyoming. If interested forward me your resume ASAP to
iinokon @ AmherstHealthcare.com (Make sure to remove the spaces before sending the email)

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Rx Veteran in Maryland

27 months ago

I graduated in 1982 and 1997. I have worked retail/ambulatory care for 29 years. My last job, I held for nine years. I resigned in 2010 to care for my elderly parents. I didn't know the market had changed. I am unable to get a job. I am extremely angry. I never imagined I would be unable to sell myself in the current market. I have no problem with an ample supply of colleagues, but academia has rendered my current skill set less than adequate. I was asked recently if I had a residency! I have 30 years of residency!

Academia is like any other business. Piling on more ‘services’ makes more money. There was nothing wrong with the skill set achieved by getting a BSP. The powers that be wanted us to be “doctors.” The Doctor of Pharmacy degree became the price of admittance. I bought one so I would have the ‘union card.’ Now, I can’t get a job. There are simply too many pharmacists. I hold you responsible.

To take thousands of dollars from a customer, without notifying them of the over supply, is criminal. There are clinical ramifications to this over supply. I have had to ‘put my foot down’ regarding clinically untenable corporate practices. The last incident? I was without help for three days straight. That pharmacy did 120-150 Rxs per day. It was UNSAFE to attempt to provide clinical services while running the cash register, answering the phone, receiving prescriptions from four sources (E, walk-in, phone, fax), adjusting inventory, dealing with prior authorizations, requesting refills, putting away the order, dispensing drugs....etc. I was told by the store manager to “Suck it up!”

snip continued

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Rx Veteran in Maryland

27 months ago

Continued
Disrespected, exhausted, and fearing for my patients, I did the UNTHINKABLE. I closed the pharmacy for two hours and walked out. I was distraught at abandoning my patients! I could not return to work that day. Question? How is a pharmacist with mountains of debt (school, home, car, children to feed, and all the rest) supposed to stand up to clinically untenable situations if they fear for their job? They can’t. Academia’s goal of independent Doctors of Pharmacy making clinical decisions is now moot.

Should academia (a business) care about the over selling of their product? You betcha. All of the ‘progress’ made in clinically advancing pharmacy is about to be lost. Lack of power to confront patient care issues, downward pressure on wages, inability of qualified practitioners to find jobs, all effect academia in the long run. Your business is at risk. It won’t be long before word reaches the community (market) that pharmacy is a poor long term investment. Recruits will dry up and no one will want your product. Welcome to my world.

With much consternation,

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Rx Veteran in Maryland

27 months ago

I am very sad. Pharmacy was a wonderful profession. I always thought that if I "made one person's life better" I had had a good day. I caught many serious medical issues that needed immediate triage. I liked the autonomy, complexity, patient contact, and problem solving involved in pharmacy practice. If you owe tons of money you have NO ability to disagree with the corporate entity that hired you. The pharmacy profession has been cheapened by coupons, non pharmacist management, PBMs, and money hungry schools. We used to provide DUR/MTM, drug interactions, triage, and patient assessment.

Now you need a residency to learn what we did as a normal course of practice. I am very angry I can't get a job. I am more angry at the powers that be for ruining our wonderful profession. The schools speak out of both sides of their mouths. They teach pie-in-the-sky clinical skills that we considered normal practice. They raise students expectations. They make sure they can get a job straight out of school. But don't try to leave...you will be in trouble. My advise stay away from pharmacy. It's a dead end.

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flrph in miami, Florida

27 months ago

The degradation of the Pharmacy Profession lies at the hand of APhA, state pharmacy associations, and every dean of every pharmacy school that has allowed pharmacy to bece simple assembly line factory work at the behest of retail pharmacy and all it's political associations and PACs. I just finished three days of factory work at America's biggest retailer pharmacy filling 400+/day, that's an Rx every 90 seconds folks, without any errors... I HOPE!
Understaffed, overwhelmed at all levels of the operation. The company creates four positions - drop off, production, verification, and pick up yet only gives only 16 hours of help to to it all. Somebody will eventually be harmed.Maybe then it will change. Probably not. The bean counters weigh liability vs. profit and the insurance companies suck up the cost that's passed onto the consumer.
Pharmacy has been on a slippery slope for decades. The bulb is about to burn out along with the hundreds of souls that once were dedicated to public service.
The legislators and academics and the corporate hierarchy should be ashamed of what they have allowed Pharmacy to become. All pharmacist should have a back up plan and never depend on their pharmacy job as a sole source of income. You are not indispenaible. You are just a number and all your dedication and hard work to the employer will be held in disregard if they find issue with you. You will be gone in a second. Don't take it personal. It's just pharmacy in the 21st century.

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Rx Veteran in Maryland

27 months ago

flrph in miami, Florida said:
I just finished three days of factory work at America's biggest retailer pharmacy filling 400+/day, that's an Rx every 90 seconds folks, without any errors... I HOPE!
Understaffed, overwhelmed at all levels of the operation. The company creates four positions - drop off, production, verification, and pick up yet only gives only 16 hours of help to to it all. Somebody will eventually be harmed.Maybe then it will change.

I have worked at those rates. No time for any clinical thinking. I worked for that place. I quit. They wrote me up for speaking with patients. The reality? They want to convert our position into a vending machine. Insert bar-coded Rx, TP card, and the machine will kick out the Rx. What?? No refills...no 72 hour supply, Storm coming want some sooner?? Forget it. Have a possible reaction? Call the Call center for "professional personal advise" No matter that you can't see the pt. to detect other possible problems.

The board of pharmacy needs to proactively stop this "Lucy in the chocolate factory" mentality. It is difficult to set a rate per hour. Sometimes everything is smooth. Other days it's hard to get anything out. My fantasy? Boards of pharmacy set a rule of at least one tech per pharmacist or some similar parameter.

Does anyone have an idea of how to solve this? We can't all not show up one day. There are tons ready to replace us. A union? That may help. I didn't get in trouble when I left in the middle of the day because of physical, emotional, mental overload.

The manager lied to corporate. Said I was incompetent, mentally ill. I wasn't. There was a witness that came to my defense. He was written up. Didn't solve the problem. I left. My beloved profession is has been ruined by the very powers that are supposed to nurture and protect the profession. Sigh.

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IL RPh mark is f'ed in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

27 months ago

Rx Veteran in Maryland said: I have worked at those rates. No time for any clinical thinking. I worked for that place. I quit. They wrote me up for speaking with patients. The reality? They want to convert our position into a vending machine. Insert bar-coded Rx, TP card, and the machine will kick out the Rx. What?? No refills...no 72 hour supply, Storm coming want some sooner?? Forget it. Have a possible reaction? Call the Call center for "professional personal advise" No matter that you can't see the pt. to detect other possible problems.

The board of pharmacy needs to proactively stop this "Lucy in the chocolate factory" mentality. It is difficult to set a rate per hour. Sometimes everything is smooth. Other days it's hard to get anything out. My fantasy? Boards of pharmacy set a rule of at least one tech per pharmacist or some similar parameter.

Does anyone have an idea of how to solve this? We can't all not show up one day. There are tons ready to replace us. A union? That may help. I didn't get in trouble when I left in the middle of the day because of physical, emotional, mental overload.

The manager lied to corporate. Said I was incompetent, mentally ill. I wasn't. There was a witness that came to my defense. He was written up. Didn't solve the problem. I left. My beloved profession is has been ruined by the very powers that are supposed to nurture and protect the profession. Sigh.

walgreens and CVS have one of there own employees on the "boards of pharmacy" in almost every state. They push laws in favor of whats good for their companies not whats good for their profession.

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PharmJ in Houston, Texas

27 months ago

The truth that the pharmacy market is completely saturated is sadly true. I graduated from pharmacy school in 2011, and afterwards I moved to Florida because that is my original home state. I wanted to be close to my family. Even before passing my boards, I actually was able to land a job with Walgreens at a call center, who told me it was going to be a temporary-permanent position, depending on my "performance." Obviously, I worked really hard and very well, but afterwards, their need for me and about 10 others were no longer needed and our services were no longer required. For the next three months, I was looking for a job, responding to every post on craigslist, jobbing, indeed, monster, etc, but to no avail. I would follow-up with every resume and job application submitted, only to get no response to my emails or phonecalls. I was finally told by a friend who said to actually go into the place and ask to speak to the hiring manager, which I did. I put on interviewing attire and had a determination that I was not going to leave until I am seen. I went to the HR area of the hospital and asked to speak to the individual for hiring pharmacist, the secretary told me she would check to see if she is still there. After 5 minutes, she came back gave me a card and told me to give them a call, after I told them I have been doing so, she said that the number she just gave me was the recruiter's personal number. So, I left, and that drive home was the worst feeling ever, I was practically in tears, thinking I made a mistake, couldn't find a career and I have an enormous debt accruing. Eventually, I had to leave Florida, and moved to Texas, the market over here is still good. Shortly after moving, I was given a job at an independent pharmacy (watch out for those!). I did land a job I wanted. Unless your willing to move to another state, and in the middle of nowhere, you might want to reconsider.

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NavyGirl7 in San Diego, California

26 months ago

Nick L in Medford, Massachusetts said: Will you have to 'explain' you move to TX?? I hear that parts of the south & TX aren't that welcoming toward those from the east especially the northeast. Besides how do you explaining moving somewhere without a job lined up??

I am not sure what you have heard, but Texas is an extremely welcoming and polite state. The only time Texans generally don't like people is when they are not willing to do hard work and earn their own living. Texas has a thriving economy and has true southern hospitality.

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UsedRph in Madison, Alabama

26 months ago

The reality of pharmacy and standard healthcare in the USA is that it was mostly never based on the idea of helping sick people get better.... It only masks symptoms....
If someone were to choose something in healthcare..... I would look to alternative healthcare.... I think it will gain ground ( in the right circles ) because the current based system is not really making people healthy. It only encourages polypharmacy. Especially in retail.
How about the numerous "pain" clinics all over the county. Nice eh....
Americans are pill popping maniacs. If the powers that be, really wanted to revolutionize healthcare and pharmacy they would have adopted a different approach to pharmacy a long time ago.... But No... they built retail stores with pharmacies where a person can pick up porkrinds and get their hypertensive medicine at the same time. They used 4 buck rx's to cheapen you... demoralize the status, while lying to you about the pharmacist shortage. Yet the schools crank out more graduates with debt loads as large as a mortgage. Yet MD's and pharmacists have failed to form an alliance or even coownership ( by law ) and as a result, they are conquered, alienated, and must see more people and get them on more medicines and fill more rx's just to keep their jobs.... However MD's have the ability to make much more of a difference in this situation than pharmacists.

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PharmJ in Brandon, Florida

26 months ago

The only reason why I moved to Texas without a job lined up, was because of the fact that my fiance at the time (wife now), was in texas and suggested that I move to Texas because the market was better here, due to the presence of the medical center. My wife had a job and I didn't want my wife to move to Florida without either of us having a job. So, I decided to move to Texas because even if I can't find work, at least she has a job and we will get some sort of income coming towards us.
Now, I am starting to hear that the market in Texas is getting worse, there is a tech, who graduated from pharmacy school, can't find a job and continues to work as a technician. Honestly, we really need to unionize and put a stop on them opening up pharmacy schools. I hate the fact that they are now saying that to get a job in a hospital you need a residency, and yet I spent time shadowing the technicians during my rotation. Some people who even do the residency end up landing a job as a staff pharmacist!
I feel really badly for those entering pharmacy school and have this blind view thinking they are going to land a job w/ a sign on bonus as soon as they get out, because thats what i was thinking :-(

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

26 months ago

Hello everyone,

I have been away for a while, just came back to see and share something that everyone on this board loves to hear. I just got an e.mail, looking for an "Associate Dean" for a new pharmacy school to be opening up in CA in 2014. I believe, this is going to be CA's #13 or #14 pharmacy school(Can not keep up anymore). Here is the link , for a "job" opening within Pharmacy:
pharm.wy.associationcareernetwork.com/JobSeeker/JobDetail.aspx?abbr=PHARM.WY&jobid=d1478e60-bbc7-4e3a-aaf7-7ab63621d274&stats=y
Oh, I forgot to mention, a couple of months ago, heard from a recruiter that a 6th pharmacy school in Chicago will be opening as well. Boy, am I glad about taking a huge leap of faith, to go back to graduate school and get out of this sinking ship...

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

26 months ago

Wow1 in Indianapolis, Indiana said: During my investigation into pharmD school, a clinical pharmacist shared this 2012 publication with me.

(I tried to copy and paste the link here, but the forum kept telling me my post was showing vulgar language) Follow this:
1) Go to thomasland.metapress.com/content
2) Search in FIND box (right-hand side of screen): "Impact of New Pharmcy Schools Cada". click GO (Dennis Cada is the author)
3) Click on PDF link

Thank you for the published article. I don't know whether you are still thinking about pharmacy school or not. I think you said you are studying for PCAT to get into the 3rd school opening up. In this market and where it is headed, If I was to gamble with odds against me, I would only apply to a state school where the tuition is relatively less expensive. But from reading your earlier remarks, it seems you have set your sight on pharmacy regardless.
Why not go all the way, to medical school! At least with them, they are holding the line on the number of students they take each year. The hardest part, is the first two years, just like pharmacy school. I graduated in 1996 with a PharmD from MN. All my loans are paid up, and no family or kids. I am going back to graduate school, b/c of the fact with over 9 years of hospital "Clinical" pharmacy experience as well as 3 years of Nuclear Pharmacy with an undergrad degree and experience in Nuclear Medicine , I have not been able to find a job. I just posted another ad for an associate dean of a new pharmacy school to open in CA in 2014. You are in what I consider "noble" profession, teaching. I would highly recommend to you to see if you can spend a week at a retail chain with a pharmacist as well as a hospital pharmacist and experience the work place and see if it is your cup of tea.
It is the quality of life that counts not the size of the paycheck, unless your wants outweigh your needs.

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RxLies in Wilmington, North Carolina

26 months ago

We need to make sure current students and future students know the reality of the current market and the working conditions. Not sure how to do this because I know how hard-headed young people can be. They only see the salary. It will be easier to get through to the prospective students but how? Since most of us are afraid of being fired for speaking out, we need recent retired pharmacists to step up and speak on our behalf. Get the word out to high-school guidance counselors.

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flrph in miami, Florida

26 months ago

Don't chase the pot of fold at the end of the Ivy hallway. Enter a career that fulfills what you Lile to do for enjoemt and fun. Think broad. Start with "do I like being indoors or outdoors?" Then " what do I like to do for self enrichment? - music, arts, sciences? Then find some aspect of this that can provide a good salary. Not a superstar guitar player... Choose something else in the music industry that keeps you close to music.
Going to job you hate everyday is no way to spend 1/3-1/2 of you life.
Don't do it!

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Where is the promised milk and honey in Chicago, Illinois

25 months ago

ben in Marcus Hook, Pennsylvania said: So pharmacy, physical theraphy, computer , engineer , business , finance etc.. all have issues with finding job or creating stable work environment than whats left.

I believe every career has up and downs. It is you as an individual who is sole responsible for your success.

And where is the guarantee in pharmacy? The words of private pharmacy school recruiters!
Yes, medical school with residency in anything but GP.

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EmptyChair in New York, New York

25 months ago

EDUCATION=17 YEARS..................EXPERIENCE=18 YEARS(MAJOR HOSPITAL)+11 YEARS(MAJOR CHAIN).............FIRED(JUNE 2012).......62 YRS OLD.........
LOST HOME.................LOST FAMILY..............X'MAS EVE 2012..........................................

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TJ Pharm D in Corona, California

25 months ago

Living the dream said: I also lost my job a few months ago the pharmacy sold out. I am 50 and thought I would not be able to find a job I pharmacy again. I had sent out 100s of resume' and not any responses. But I did not give up, I kept trying. Now, after many months I have found a great job and that job just happened to be in on of the most beautiful places on earth. So , don't give up.. This is a hard time to be without a job. If you don't give up you will find a great job

Merry Christmas
G

Where did you find this job?

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Living the dream in Puyallup, Washington

25 months ago

I found it in Hawaii.

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The Concerned Pharmacist in Los Angeles, California

25 months ago

Anyone out there doing reserve duty for the military? I was sent an offer sheet by the Navy in the mail and upon speaking to a recruiter, I am interested but would like some insider inforation.
Thanks

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hardwrkrphNJ in New Brunswick, New Jersey

25 months ago

I know someone who works for an army pharmacy and if I had to do it again I would have joined. The military pharmacist are the best treated professionals Ive seen and they dont have to worry about the dreaded bottom dollar like retail pharmacists. If you willing to accept some harassment from high ranking military personal than you be fine and then you can retire after a reasonable time with benefits. Keep in mind that all jobs have pros and cons but no one will come in and fire you for no filling a quota or b/c they can get a new graduate for 10 dollars less. I also heard the navy is alot better than the army so good luck!!!

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