Where can I take Phlebotomy Tech class in San Diego, CA ???

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Another in Lemon Grove, CA

35 months ago

I think about August for Sweetwater, but be aware that that ROP has a prerequiste of medical terminology. It is an excellent program and they do the clinical at Kaiser. It is much better in my opinion, than the private pay schools for $2000+ but it does take more time and time is money to all of us...

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Another in Lemon Grove, CA

35 months ago

I apologize to if I seemed to be too defensive. I am very sensitive to this Family Health Services program due to the way they are, now that I know first hand. There is much more to my "story" and I would be happy to share. I have posted a contact number before and some have called to ask about the local schools. I did so much research BEFORE deciding where to go it the payment was going to be $2000. I was very stressed out about finding and picking the right school based on my needs and all of us have different needs and factors that play in to choosing a school. Feel free to call to discuss more and I would be happy to discuss more with you about anything. I strongly adivse, however, if you choose Family Health Services and start next month, that you inquire directly about clinical placement guarantee and the choices available. The best choice is a Sharp site but this school misleads you on getting placed there, yet some students do get selected somehow by discretion of the "director". If placement is important to you, get the school's committment in writing. Good luck, I hope we can talk.If you want to call, or anyone, to discuss my opinions and knowledge more about the San Diego phlebotomy schools, write to wildaughter@yahoo.com and we can exhange phone numbers there.

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Beth1 in Fallbrook, California

34 months ago

LEMON GROVE in Lemon Grove, California said: It is not easy finding employment for ANY phlebotomy course. I spoken to students I took the class with and none of them have found work. I spoken to people from US Colleges and they have had problems finding work. I have applied at every hospital they say takes entry-level workers and I have had no luck. I was blessed to be able to volunteer my time at the Naval Hospital to get the expereince the majority of the hospitals are looking for. I have meet people who have taken the phlebotomy course and work for LabCorp or UCSD and have not had any luck transferring into departments to use their new certification. The only place you may find work with little experience is at a clinic but trust me it is hard to get in. I have put in for clinics to and I have had NO LUCK. I will be honest with you it is impossible to find work as a PHLEBTOMIST/LAB ASSISTANT without the experience that comes with it. No one wants to hire you without the experience. The only way I have found you can get the experience you need is to Volunteer at the Naval Hospital but they are currently not accepting any volunteers right now. You will need at least 1000 sticks to do mobile phlebotomy which pays like 20 hr and you need at least 6m-1yr to go to a hospital. Alot of hospitals are finding they are hiring people who come with baggage and are considering lowering their standards for 6mo are more experinece but it is still the question of how are you going to get that 6mo of experience. Also if you do become a phlebotomist you can look at places like dialysis they hire phlebotomist too. I tried there as well its just really hard to be honest. I would not discourage you because if you want to do it pursue it because who knows if they pass this new heatlhcare bill that may open up jobs for phle

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Beth1 in Fallbrook, California

34 months ago

My son took the course and got certified, etc, and hasnt been able to get a job. Unfortunately he was encouraged to get his externship with a paramedical examiner, and he wanted to get a job as such. Well he got a job as a Paramedical examiner, and they arent giving him any work--and it is all driving around so there is no income. So during this time, he has been applying for 4 months to every job on line and has found nothing. Does anyone have any information on where you can volunteer to get the 100 sticks you need and the experience--after you have allready recieved your certification? Thankyou.

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CA nut, Escondido, CA in Escondido, California

34 months ago

Nancy in Palm Springs, California said: I paid $1790.00 at CNEI in cathedral city, it took a month, much to my surprise if i had done more research ROP in vista charges $30.00 for class $30.00 for books and takes about 4 to 5 months that is a big money difference, same nights as CNEI has it, and if anyone is interested ROP also has a medical transcriptionist class online, and for FREE.

12 April, aster, 2009. I just went thru orientation at Vista ROP. NO SEATS avail.and no such thing as "waiting list." IF you take a medical course from them they will give you priority registration a few days before the unwashed masses (me) are allowed to register. Also, Fee for Materials is now $100 and book "is aprox. $58." They were very cold hearted and not forthcoming with other classes for Phlebotomy locally. Five of us who have passed the Medcial Assistant A/C in Escondido ROP were flat out turned away unless we would take one of the medical courses Vista offered- all of which were covered at Escondido ROP. Escondido does not offer the Phelbotomy course. Sounds like a rip off of State funds for ROP.

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CA nut, Escondido, CA in Escondido, California

34 months ago

ALS in San Diego, California said: Hi, Theresa. Did you attend Vista ROP? I'm planning to take the phlebotomy course there. Was there any requisite? Do I have to do anything before I take course?

You won't be able to get in unless you take their Health Essentials course and are then referred by the Instructor or a Counselor. Once you have completed the Health Essentials class, you can try to get into a Phlebotomy class. They have cut down to 2 Phlebotomy classes, one day and one night.

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matty in Victorville, California

34 months ago

i know this post is way old, and i didn't read all the replies. But i did U.S. Colleges, and yeah, it's pricey, 2,590 bucks. But this is no 500 prepay to get on the list, i didnt do that. And it's only a 2 week course and they get you an internship.

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BB in Chula Vista, California

34 months ago

Have they assisted you with employment?

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AllanMark in San Diego, California

34 months ago

Hey guys where in San Diego do I take the State of California approved phlebotomy certification exam??? Please forward me a phone number that I can contact them or a website to check out. Your help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

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lizzybear in Lake Elsinore, California

34 months ago

try riverside community college...they have a phlebotomy course on their moreno valley campus. im taking it for fall 2009 but i dont know if they offer it in the summer.

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ang

33 months ago

LC in Cleveland, Ohio said: This "course" is not going to help anyone who is in California where there it is required that they have so many hours of training in order to be certified.

thank you so much for hipping people to other parts of the country. I have just completed my phelb course in CA. but I still have to have 50 successful venipuntures at an unrelated site as well as 10 capillary sticks. Then I have to take the test for the state of CA.

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kdbabie in Riverside, California

32 months ago

Is there any place in the Inland Empire area where you can take the phlebotomy course.

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BB in Chula Vista, California

32 months ago

Do your reseach after you may want to pursue another field. Its very tough finding an entry level job in phlebotomy.

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ec in San Diego, California

32 months ago

cdm in Oceanside, California said: I just found this site and am interested in what you stated about kaiser. Could you please give me a name and number of whom you contacted to get that info. I am very much interested in learning at Kaiser.
Thank you.

I hav been researching sites for phlebotomy and getting more interested in the program at kaiser, but I'm having a hard time finding information on it. Could you possibly send me the link to this program. Also I keep hearing how critical the post 6 month work experience is. It seems like this might be the best program. Have you also looked into the Cedar Sinai program? I would also be interested in caravaning with others if this works out for me.Please let me know if this might still be an option for you.

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Another in Lemon Grove, CA

32 months ago

RE: Kaiser, this seems to be the best choice to get trained and to help after get a job. Whether it be thru ROP(longer) or Kaiser's $1200.00 self schooling program in Hollywood. To find more info about the Kaiser program, email: bonnie.l.franklin@kp.org or google Kaiser training and Hollywood location. If you scroll back on this web site, there are more specifics about the Kaiser phlebotomy program.
NOTE: Advise is given to all that Family Health Services is the worse program to atttend in the local San Diego area. They are deceptive in what they tell you and do not care about helping you after you graduate. They have several teachers and consequently, breakdowns in communication. ROP is by far better than this more expensive private program but of course ROP is also longer.
Just know that it is highly difficult to get hired without "one year" experience so your school training's contract location is critical as it is a way to get employment, a foot in the door....

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Britknee in Hesperia, California

32 months ago

Thank you very much to everyone! You guys have all been very helpful. I just have a couple of questions if you guys don't mind answering. My only concern with the ROP program is are you able to get a job after the program? Because I am located in the Inland Empire and I was thinking about taking the course in Jan when it starts up again but there is another program that offers it up here. It is at my local community college called Victor Valley College and it's an Allied Health Program I believe. I was just wonder if anyone was able to take that course before. Because those are my two options and I want to find out which one is better. And which program would I most likely get hired from if I take ROP or the community college. Because I hear some people saying that ROP has a bad name etc. But the ROP up here get's crazy too. A lot of people start lining up around 3 am as well.

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bejeh in orange,california in Placentia, California

32 months ago

Does anybody fail their nat.cert.exam ,and until how many you are allowed to take 'til you pass it.I missed 1 point in my fist exam and i'm so upset.

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char in Vacaville, California

31 months ago

Michelle Henderson in West Des Moines, Iowa said: $2500 is RIDICULOUS!Hello Sam, my name is Michelle and i know where you can get the phlebotomy training that you will need in order to be successful. Phlebotomy Services( www.phleb.com ), to me, is the best training anyone can get. They offer 1 or 3 day training, even better they offer phlebotomy training online at an even lower price.

If you search around, many phlebotmy training classes can last anywhere from 4-8 months and can cost an arm and a leg. With the phlebotomy Services( www.phleb.com ) youu can get the training you need with your certificate in days.

I hope this information was useful. Hope you find what you're looking for.

Michelle.

Is the online training legit? Do you actually credit the online training?

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char in Vacaville, California

31 months ago

Gina in Capitola, California said: Does anyone know of a phlebotomy training program in Redwood City, CA? I had heard there was a 90 day ROP class, but apparently they no longer offer it. Does anyone have any leads of any such program in the San Francisco Bay Area or California Central Valley? Thanks!

I know theres one in sf which costs about $2200 for 2 wks. I'm looking for other choices , something faster and cheaper ahha.

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char in Vacaville, California

31 months ago

Another in Lemon Grove, CA said: RE: Kaiser, this seems to be the best choice to get trained and to help after get a job. Whether it be thru ROP(longer) or Kaiser's $1200.00 self schooling program in Hollywood. To find more info about the Kaiser program, email: bonnie.l.franklin@kp.org or google Kaiser training and Hollywood location. If you scroll back on this web site, there are more specifics about the Kaiser phlebotomy program.
NOTE: Advise is given to all that Family Health Services is the worse program to atttend in the local San Diego area. They are deceptive in what they tell you and do not care about helping you after you graduate. They have several teachers and consequently, breakdowns in communication. ROP is by far better than this more expensive private program but of course ROP is also longer.
Just know that it is highly difficult to get hired without "one year" experience so your school training's contract location is critical as it is a way to get employment, a foot in the door....

Do you know if kaiser in north cal offers phlebotomy training?

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Another in Lemon Grove, CA

31 months ago

Make certain you know and get in writing that whatever school you choose states the location of their training and the duration. Also, discern the policy of job help.
I learned the hard way from a school that promised great training at hospitals verbally, then became very limited in poor choices which offered no help to getting a job. In general, one has to have "six months" experience to get a job after graduation which of course no one has. The one ROP that does help with getting a job is going to an ROP that does their training with Kaiser or better yet, going to Kaiser's phlebotomy school. Lastly, do this job becasue you have some passion for it,not for the money. I had one co-student who said she just flipped a coin and had a terrible attitude in dealing with blood and the different personalities of people. Best wishes and Luck.

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Another in Lemon Grove, CA

31 months ago

Every state is different but I really have to ? being trained on line for such a hands on skill you are trying to develop. Yes, of course we want to save money and time but it will do you know good if it does not help you get a job after your training.
My advice:
Make certain you know and get in writing that whatever school you choose states the location of their training and the duration. Also, discern the policy of job help.
I learned the hard way from a school that promised great training at hospitals verbally, then became very limited in poor choices which offered no help to getting a job. In general, one has to have "six months" experience to get a job after graduation which of course no one has. The one ROP that does help with getting a job is going to an ROP that does their training with Kaiser or better yet, going to Kaiser's phlebotomy school. Lastly, do this job becasue you have some passion for it,not for the money. I had one co-student who said she just flipped a coin and had a terrible attitude in dealing with blood and the different personalities of people. Best wishes and Luck.

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Another in Lemon Grove, CA

31 months ago

Kaiser has 2 training programs, and more than just for phelbotomoy.
Sometime ago, I posted all the contact info so if you research and go back a year or so you could find the contact info. Otherwise, just google like I did to find it, but you have to google the right
terms. "Kaiser training programs " Northern or Souther California or something like that....

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BB in Chula Vista, California

31 months ago

are there any PHLEBO courses in Lemon Grove??

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hot in the sun in Victorville, California

31 months ago

im planning to move out to paramount,ca and unfortunately the rop programs are not offering phlebotomy courses.the kaiser training sounds promising can u provide any information or a web site so i can look into more.any info u have would be greatly appreciated.

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britknee in Hesperia, California

31 months ago

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kris in Los Angeles, California

30 months ago

After reading all of this I still don't know where to enroll. I want to enroll in a class that offers a job right after I finish taking this course. Which companies guarantee a job right after?

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patricia in San Diego, California

29 months ago

Kiana in Imperial Beach, California said: about Family Health Services...do u have to go to that school everyday?? i dont know whats the class schedule...pls help anyone who went to that school...thank you so much!

here is their web site www.familyhealth-services.com/ they have classes on the weekends from what i was told ( fri, sat and sun) but cehck out their web site or give them a call.

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taekwondo guys in Los Angeles, California

29 months ago

brenda in San Diego, California said: www.ohlone.edu/instr/alliedhealth/docs/approvedcalifphlebtrngschools.pdf

has all the schools in cali

thanks you so much...i was look around like madman, since i just move to rancho cucamonga..

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Another in Lemon Grove, CA

29 months ago

I attended "Family Health Services". The hours at the start of the year were during weekdays and weekends for about two months. But I would never recommend this course to anyone. They just want your money and then, to be done with you. They offer no help with employment and the externship sites were misrepresented to me, turning out to be very limited depending on discretionary factors as to where you go. For example, they had a contract with Balboa Hospital, Paradise Valley and Sharp Hospitals. However, Sharp was really the only one with potential job openings and good experience and when I requested to go there, they said it was not an option, yet other students did get to go there. When looking for phlebotomy schools, make sure to ask about where their training is and help with employment. I learned Kaiser's program and ROP who trains with Kaiser offered the best training and education. Just my opinion...

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Confused in San Diego in San Diego, California

29 months ago

I'm scheduled to start training @ Family next week and now am second guessing my choice!? I'm a MA and Phlebotomist but have been out of the field for ~3 years and haven't drawn blood on a regular basis for ~5. I'm from NY and and didn't keep up the CEU's on my cert.'s so I'm starting over. Concerned that this might be a dead end, but thinking my background of working as an active Phleb. for 10 years prior may hold some weight. Please give me feedback on this - Lemon Grove since you seem to be the most knowlegeable re: Family. Also have the option of moving up to Palm Desert so does anyone have info. on CNEI as a better place to train and seek employment. Thanx

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Another in Lemon Grove, CA

29 months ago

email me personally at wildaughter@yahoo.com and we can exhange numbers to discuss. Your experience will have weight. I am simply sharing my experience and truthful opinion of Family Health Schools. Kaiser and/or US Colleges would have been the better choice as their programs help more get you quickly employed and last I knew, Kaiser charged $1200 and US Colleges $2000 if paid all up front. So it is either less or equal to what Family Health charges, who again, just seem to be money focused and then dumping you after giving you poor, uncertain training options. If you go with them, get it in writing, where your training is going to be at least.....

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Joani in San Diego, California

29 months ago

Has anyone attended San Diego college on Camino del Rio, San Diego?

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tam in Poway, California

29 months ago

unhappy in Chula Vista, California said: WORST PRODRAM I HAVE EVER ATTENDED SAN DIEGO IS NOT REAL FOND OF THEM

Hey,
I'am going to attend US colleges next months for phlebotomy, I'am kind of nervous because:
1. do they really teach you
2. do they help you found a job

so if anyone knows please respone

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David in Los Angeles, California

28 months ago

sam in San Diego, California said: Can anyone tell me where I can take the class in San Diego?? How much will it cost and how long? I know U.S. College offers the class for about $2500 for about 2 months depending. Unsure if should take the class there. Has anyone taken the class there? Please let me know asap. Thanks.

You could try Vista Adult School located on Bobier St in Vista CA (northern san diego county) the class only costs around $100 as it is a subsidized ROP class, but still fully accredited and legitimate with internships.

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Another in Lemon Grove, CA

28 months ago

Advice to go with US Colleges or Kaiser if you can commute to LA area. Kaiser is a sure way in, gives great education and is cheaper-like $1200. Stay away from Family Health Services who have terrible placment issues and also multiple, unreliable "teachers". No job assitance from Family Health, they just want your money and then to be done with you.
ROP can be good but the waiting list and getting is always hard. Some stand out in line at 3am and there may be a prerequisite requirement of a med. terminology course.
Good Luck.

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Tam

28 months ago

Another in Lemon Grove, CA said: Advice to go with US Colleges or Kaiser if you can commute to LA area. Kaiser is a sure way in, gives great education and is cheaper-like $1200. Stay away from Family Health Services who have terrible placment issues and also multiple, unreliable "teachers". No job assitance from Family Health, they just want your money and then to be done with you.
ROP can be good but the waiting list and getting is always hard. Some stand out in line at 3am and there may be a prerequisite requirement of a med. terminology course.
Good Luck.

Kasier program has been canceled due the state buget cuts. I called last week because I wanted to attend. The ROP classes are very hard to get in, also because of the buget cut in CA. this fall year is they only have like 1 or 2 classes going on for program.

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vanessem in El Monte, California

28 months ago

Has anyone attended Wagner training institute...if so... was it good...i am not sure is the closes to my house and cheaper too...please let me know...thanks

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chefcookie1 in Torrance, California

28 months ago

vanessem in El Monte, California said: Has anyone attended Wagner training institute...if so... was it good...i am not sure is the closes to my house and cheaper too...please let me know...thanks

Vanessem,
Yes I went to Wagner Training Institute and its the best! It was more money than the cheaper public programs at SCROC and local city programs. Also some community colleges offer the program however, you cannot get any sort of timeframe as to when you will get your externship. Wagner is excellent quality and I like how you go a few weekends for a while instead of typical Mon-Fri. This worked for me. It was a drive but I made the best of it. At Wagner, we had several opportunities to practice our venipuncture during the program and even after we finished it. Some of the public programs might let you practice 3 times before externship. It was well worth the money! Keep in mind the process of getting certified takes several months and then it took me 6 months to get a job but If you go to Wagner, you will feel well prepared. I work at a federal prison as a contractor and make more money than the girl at the lab where I did my externship.

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chefcookie1 in Torrance, California

28 months ago

Beth1 in Fallbrook, California said: My son took the course and got certified, etc, and hasnt been able to get a job. Unfortunately he was encouraged to get his externship with a paramedical examiner, and he wanted to get a job as such. Well he got a job as a Paramedical examiner, and they arent giving him any work--and it is all driving around so there is no income. So during this time, he has been applying for 4 months to every job on line and has found nothing. Does anyone have any information on where you can volunteer to get the 100 sticks you need and the experience--after you have allready recieved your certification? Thankyou.

Beth,
Unfortunately, due to insurance reasons, you cannot volunteer to do venipuncture. I tried. You have to just keep applying for jobs until you get a response. I applied for 6 months to several places and never got one response....until once..try Staff USA. They are in Northern California but they gave me an assignment at a federal prison. I only got this job because I have good credit and a clean record; they wanted the experience but they couldn't get an experienced phlebotomist with a clean record so I got in for just my good character. Other options might be to try to get him a job as a lab courrier/driver or something to just get his foot in the door.

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chefcookie1 in Torrance, California

28 months ago

Another in Lemon Grove, CA said: Advice to go with US Colleges or Kaiser if you can commute to LA area. Kaiser is a sure way in, gives great education and is cheaper-like $1200. Stay away from Family Health Services who have terrible placment issues and also multiple, unreliable "teachers". No job assitance from Family Health, they just want your money and then to be done with you.
ROP can be good but the waiting list and getting is always hard. Some stand out in line at 3am and there may be a prerequisite requirement of a med. terminology course.
Good Luck.

Be careful with Kaiser! They have a program in Northern California but if you do your research and check their actual job placement rate for phlebotomist at Kaiser after graduation (it used to be right on the website)..it is very low. At least it was about a year ago when I researched this option. Certainly, it could change but I don't believe there is ever a sure way to get a job...especially in this horrible economy. I met a girl at Kaiser who said she got a job as a receptionist first and was waiting for a lab opening. Also, I researched several schools and none in Southern California offer job placement in this field. You are right about the externship. That is why I paid $1500 to go to a private school (Wagner Training Institute) that was good quality, lots of venipuncture practice, and they set you up with externship pretty fast.

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vanessem in El Monte, California

28 months ago

thanks alot...

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LETRINA in Ontario, California

28 months ago

WHERE IS THE ROP CLASS AT?

Theresa in San Diego, California said: ROP stands for Regional Occupational Program.. Im currently taking a Phlebotomy class at ROP and i think it is super easy and not to mention that the tuition is free.. I recommend it to anyone interested in taking an ROP Phlebotomy class. Its a 6 month class but its all worth it!!

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E Sanchez in Twentynine Palms, California

27 months ago

I took a course with Boston Reed Coll. they have many courses. The teacher I had was very helpfull an patient. they allow payment and wasn't very expensive. they are all over California.

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KellyJ in Fullerton, California

27 months ago

Hey all; I too am interested in a phlebotomy course. Was a vet tech for 8 years-if I can get blood from a kitten, I can get blood from any old human right? I hope! Any feed back from anyone about programs in North Orange County Cal would be appreciated. I am certified medical coder (CPC) w/AAPC, schooled through ROP (which is now a mess with the state cuts) but want to increase my chances of better employment and versatility. Any of you aware of a phlebotomy program with weekend schooling only? I am a single mom who works full time and would only be able to do any additional schooling on weekends. Thanks to all.

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GIA

26 months ago

I'm looking into Phlebotomy Cert schools but am getting a little discouraged by what I've read here though I appreciate everyones' experiences and their honesty since it's really a tough job market. Something else I want to say is when I lived in Orange County, I had some blood work done at WestCliff Labs in Irvine and I felt the place was VERY shoddy and the tech's were really low-class. They had bad personalities and seemed haphazard about everything. I was surprised since it is in a busy medical building and in a nice area and I wondered how these people got hired. I mean, I can tell by all the people writing on this board that they are really seriously looking for a career and have high standards. The WestCliff labs also tried to charge me additional monies that they should have billed my insurance for. I had to deal with their billing dept on 4 different occasions to explain the same issue over and over with people who seemed bent on not doing their job. EVen after they spoke on the phone to my insurance company and was not suppose to charge me, they kept sending me bills and threatening me. Point is that this particular company doesn't seem like a very good one to work for.

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rnagain in San Diego, California

26 months ago

GUESS WHO in Lemon Grove, California said: Do not worry about any of that if you want to be a phleotomist then you will learn the skill, i too had shaky hands but they show you how to anchor the needle and the hub so you won't hurt the patient and can exchange the testing tubes with barely no moment at all. you have someone overseeing your draws the first few times to make sure you are not doing it wrong. also you can always ask them to practice one on one with you, i did. they won't let you go out there and make a fool out of yourself. you can't fail the course if you study your notes and do the practice test they give you then you should have no problem with the course. the more questions you ask the better it is for you. you don't want to start something you are unsure you won't finish.

Is this at Family Health Services?

Thanks.

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rnagain in San Diego, California

26 months ago

GUESS WHO in Lemon Grove, California said: Do not worry about any of that if you want to be a phleotomist then you will learn the skill, i too had shaky hands but they show you how to anchor the needle and the hub so you won't hurt the patient and can exchange the testing tubes with barely no moment at all. you have someone overseeing your draws the first few times to make sure you are not doing it wrong. also you can always ask them to practice one on one with you, i did. they won't let you go out there and make a fool out of yourself. you can't fail the course if you study your notes and do the practice test they give you then you should have no problem with the course. the more questions you ask the better it is for you. you don't want to start something you are unsure you won't finish.

Is this at Family Health Services?

Thanks.

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rnagain in San Diego, California

26 months ago

David in Los Angeles, California said: You could try Vista Adult School located on Bobier St in Vista CA (northern san diego county) the class only costs around $100 as it is a subsidized ROP class, but still fully accredited and legitimate with internships.

Hi: I live in San Diego, and saw your suggestion about Vista Adult School. Since it is Saturday, (been on the computer most of the day), no one to call. I went to their website, but can't understand their schedule for phlebotomy training. It looks like their courses are pretty long, a year or more. Example, 9/? to 12/10. Any clues?
Thanks.

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lmt in Vancouver, British Columbia

25 months ago

I went to VVC in victorville, they have a free course which is hard to get into and they have a course that's $700. both are 6 months long and mon-fri 8am-4pm to satisfy state requirements, the price includes the national exam which you take at the end of the course and get your results immediately and your books, then they help you fill out the state lic app.
The teacher is Mr. White (or it was... not sure if they have a new person) whom is really meticulous in teaching you everything you need to know.
When I moved to Nevada, they don't require a state license, most companies don't want you to have any training since they wanna train you themselves, and if you go to school out there it's 12k. So every place is different, and some places are totally backwards!
Anyway, great course.

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