how many sticks can one phlebotomist do on one patient?

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Linda in San Diego, California

89 months ago

sandy waller in Cleveland, Ohio said: please reply with this answer a nurse poked me 6 times and i know there is a rule somewhere but i need it in writing anyone know where i can find it?

You are allowed to make two attempts before getting help, however, if the patient asks for someone else after the first attempt, and the phlebotomist/nurse makes another attempt anyway, he/she can be charged with assault and battery.

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nancy in High Point, North Carolina

89 months ago

sandy waller in Cleveland, Ohio said: please reply with this answer a nurse poked me 6 times and i know there is a rule somewhere but i need it in writing anyone know where i can find it?

only sticks per phlebotomist after two phlebotomist try not suppose to touch the patient for 24 hours that is the policy. now rn is different i dont know about them.
hope this will help

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sandy in Chicago, Illinois

88 months ago

sandy waller in Cleveland, Ohio said: please reply with this answer a nurse poked me 6 times and i know there is a rule somewhere but i need it in writing anyone know where i can find it?

Generally, nurses or doctors don't draw blood very well. If the phlebotomist sticks you twice and misses, Ask for the most experienced phlebotomist to come and get your blood. This advice is coming from someone who has been working in hospitals for 18 years, and has seen many cocky doctors and nurses leave huge bruises and hurt arms on patients that were not difficult sticks.

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Connie in Bolingbrook, Illinois

82 months ago

Depends on what you are calling a "stick". If you are meaning a "stick" as in drawing blood to obtain a sample of blood that is one thing. But in the case of someone sticking a needle through the skin to start an IV, it depends on if there is an Emergency. If there is an Emergency and there is the need to get a medication started. (Such as when my daughter had a status seizure and needed the medication to stop it) There truly is no limit. In my daughters case, thankfully they kept trying, she was stuck with a needle over 40 times in one arm alone (yes I actually counted while I was watching) and they had 4 people working on her at the same time, 1 on each arm and 1 on each leg. It took them almost 4 hours ( had even called the anesthesiologist on duty who was also trying) to get that IV started. Her veins are huge, except when she is sick, then they collapse and are very hard to find.

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julie.trevino@*****.*** in Escondido, California

82 months ago

Hello;
I recently finnished my intership...and had a very good Supervisor . The rule was to try TWICE, then call someone else. This rule applied to the EXPERIENCED PHLEBOTOMISTS . For me, I (whlie training) was to try only once---if not successful....CALL SOMEONE ELSE, thus a total of 2 times. Good luck.

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thecropchick in baltimore, Maryland

82 months ago

My understanding is one tech is allowed to try twice, then get a "pro"

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Kelly Anne in Rancho Cucamonga, California

81 months ago

The general rule is to try twice, but if they have your permission they can keep on trying.

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quest in West Covina, California

81 months ago

NO MORE THAN ONE TIME, BUT IF NECESSARY I WILL DO IT TWICE

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thecropchick in baltimore, Maryland

81 months ago

My understanding is 2 but my personal limit is 1

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maria in Worcester, Massachusetts

78 months ago

I have been working in a hospital for 30 yrs and the rule is; Try to draw blood two times, if you are not succesfull another phleb can try only once. If the second phleb was not succesfull the patient will be unabled for a day to the same hour. End of the story.

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Lori in Hollywood, Florida

76 months ago

the rule of phlebotomy is (2)twice then get some one else to try; with there permission only you can try again in the other arm or with a butterfly. if its a person with very bad veins.

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todd in Marianna, Florida

72 months ago

I realize this was started 17 months ago, but wanted to give some info in case this could help someone else.

Just wanted to point out that while many people have given great advice I do not believe we have answered what the poster was looking for. He seems to be looking for some sort of legal documentation for which there are none. As most of the above stated many many times training programs and laboratory policies often dictate that a phelb should only stick twice then ask for help from someone else. There is no Law regarding this issue. So a simple lawsuit you will not find. However if you feel a legal action is necessary you would need to take an action surrounding physical abuse. Pictures should have been taken and submitted to your lawyer. If the hospital is privately owned the lawyer will need to file for a seizure of hospital procedure policies. You will then have to pray that the person signed off that they have read and understood the form during their training. If they have not signed off (which in the medical world would not surprise me) you will then have a bigger problem on your hands directly attempting to prosecute a hospital. Unless they gave you DVT or a blood clot you wont have a great chance in court. If this was an emergency critical situation the 2 stick rule does loose its merit as Doctors need those results ASAP/STAT.

I also would like to mention you as a patient have rights. Please encourage anyone you know in a situation like this to be vocal in a polite manner, and ask for someone else. IV's and blood sticks are by no means a perfect science.

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Cathy Meadows DiSantis in Willoughby, Ohio

64 months ago

sandy waller in Cleveland, Ohio said: please reply with this answer a nurse poked me 6 times and i know there is a rule somewhere but i need it in writing anyone know where i can find it?

Hi Sandy! A nurse is suposed to only attempt an insurtion twice. It is not a law, but a general policy--meaning, most places where one may recieve such a service would have such a policy. Most, but not all. It is only a recomendation by JHACO.

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melinda in Tampa, Florida

61 months ago

the school i go to we need 50 sticks to get certified they want us to get stuck 4 time a day for the next 3 weeks what do you think? please advice..

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momsgirl in Winston Salem, North Carolina

61 months ago

Yes, i'm state certified of N.C. an been in phlebotomist for 7yrs1/2an yes you do need from 100 to 50 sticks, but not on yourself though. Now finger sticks you its not really a big issue however though you can ask Dr.'s or Nurses or other students to get in your finger sticks.

However if i understand what you are asking then the answer is no.
You need to go to Cap.org or ASCP.org an read up on Phlebotomy to get your true readings of Phlebotomy an also you can become state ceritified through ASCP.Org or ASPT.Org which Tech ll pays a little more.
When ever you not certian of something or unsure always go back an read your phlebotomy book or manual or go online.
hope this helps you out.

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melinda in Tampa, Florida

61 months ago

hi than u for your reply we have been sticking ourself almost everyday 4 and 5 times everyday i though that was not normal,,just because we didnt have enough people to stick i started feeling lots a pain and bruises on hand/arms i really needed a break so finally the instructor brought students in the class for us to stick AMEN TO THAT! WELL THANK YOU AND HAVE A GREAT DAY!

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pincushion in Stockton, California

61 months ago

can someone tell me if a person is placed on a 51/50 hold, do they have a right to refuse to give blood....there was a situation where a lady at the hospital in modesto ca was placed on a 51/50 hold for allegedly taking a lot of pills...she was taken to the er....she has baby rolling veins which means she is an extremely hard poke....she advised the nurses of this and was ignored...they used large needles and poked her 21 times...8 times the needle was jammed in her foot...they still was unable to get a line....she screamed for them to stop but they wouldnt...all this while she was shackled.... whats really crazy is that they found no medication in her system....was this legal...can someone advise please...

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ndnstar in Reno, Nevada

60 months ago

You're are allowed 2 attempts then you ask the patient if they would like to have someone else try, if they say no then you notify the Dr.and let them know the situation, however depending on the circumstance they may ask you to try again. I always go for back up.

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Tgore in Pensacola, Florida

56 months ago

How many patients are ya'll allow to draw per hr/ If anyone knows of any rule or reg stating how many patient you can draw per hr/per shift please let me know.
thanks
TG

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PHLEBOTEK in Chicago, Illinois

56 months ago

The general rule of thumb is 2 sticks per phlebotomist.

Now if you are a good phlebotomist that can stick 99 out of 100 people apply with us today and we will have a job for you.

Please submit your resume at www.phlebotek.com. We are a nationwide staffing agency that strictly focuses on Phlebotomy.

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carolyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania

56 months ago

My question is how many sticks are Phlebotomists expected to get in an hour is there a rule? I was shocked when my supervisor called me in and said I never made any mistakes and my patient care was great but that I need to get at least 6 or 7 sticks an hour. Now I rush trying to get a better evaluation within the next 4 weeks. The patients comment on how gentle and how they hardly felt the needle. I am striving to so mord an hour. Has anyone heard of piece work when it comes to sticks in the work place please let me know. Thank You! carolyn

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liz in Chandler, Arizona

56 months ago

Carolyn, I don't know if there is a rule but my supervisor told me 6-8 sticks an hour but also where I work we see over 200 patients a day.

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carolyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania

56 months ago

Thank You!
I was concerned because my Supervisor told me at my new phlebotomist job that I had only did 28 sticks in an 8 hour period I was taken back because our early morning collections start at 3AM till 7AM Even though the shift is 11PM to 7AM I am only working within a 4 hour window. That would give me the 7 an hour requirement Thank You Carolyn

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HCOG in Naples, Florida in Cape Coral, Florida

55 months ago

In this country the Rule of Two as it is commonly known is followed by most trained and certified Phlebotomists. This Rule needs to part of the Standard of Care for your facility and must be a policy in your Phlebotomy Manual. It is equally important to train all staff in policies and procedures and to employ corrective action when rules are not followed.

Newly trained Phlebotomists need to try once and then turn the draw over to a Lead or Seniou Phlebotomist.

The reason behind this rule is for both: Patient Satisfaction and Patient Safety.

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carolyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania

54 months ago

Hello
Could you be more clear on the answer to the question, are you saying that the standard of care is equally important if not more and amount of sticks only second? There are great phlebotomists but more concern is put on how fast rather then the quality of care even though the stick are done in the time alloted. Thank You!

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HCOG in Fort Myers, Florida

54 months ago

Good Evening Carolyn,

What I was trying to say is that the Phlebotomy Rules and the written Phlebotomy Policies should correlate with the facilities (Hospital, Clinic, Outpatient Center) Standard of Patient Care. The classic number of sticks may vary from site to site, but the old standard was five minutes per stick barring exceptional situations.

hcog

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Ann in Victorville, California

53 months ago

sandy waller in Cleveland, Ohio said: please reply with this answer a nurse poked me 6 times and i know there is a rule somewhere but i need it in writing anyone know where i can find it?

@ Jessica; That's correct the attempt for blood draw should only be twice. After the two attempts, someone else has to draw blood from the patient such as a supervisor or co-worker (in a medical facility). But with Mobile/Insurance Examiners you can definetly come back another day to do the blood draw again, after the two failed attempts.

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betty in Topeka, Kansas

51 months ago

Linda in San Diego, California said: You are allowed to make two attempts before getting help, however, if the patient asks for someone else after the first attempt, and the phlebotomist/nurse makes another attempt anyway, he/she can be charged with assault and battery.

even if they got it the second time around...... I dont understand that....

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betty in Topeka, Kansas

51 months ago

I try twice most of the time I get it on the first time but when I cant I try a second time and always get it the second time imagine if everyone just did it once then there would be alot of recollects I at least make sure its ok with the patient before doing so if they say yes then its alright but if they refuse it then dont do it but atleast try dont be afraid to do what you have to do to get the job done because you could end up with alot of unhappy doctors and staff who are depending on you to do your job and get it done without help

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HCOG in North Fort Myers, Florida

51 months ago

It seems that most agree on the rule of two. I was very happy to see that some set a personal limit of one stick. Phlebotomists should never be criticized for wanting to turn a blood draw over to another phlebotomist. They may have a very good reason for doing this. New phlebotomists are frequently limited to one try.

hcog

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Jackie in Harvest, Alabama

48 months ago

sandy in Chicago, Illinois said: Generally, nurses or doctors don't draw blood very well. If the phlebotomist sticks you twice and misses, Ask for the most experienced phlebotomist to come and get your blood. This advice is coming from someone who has been working in hospitals for 18 years, and has seen many cocky doctors and nurses leave huge bruises and hurt arms on patients that were not difficult sticks.

I am a phlebotomist, sandy is right, i had a doctor stick a patient over and over for a matter of 15 mins. over three times,and still didnt get it, then wanted to get the patients foot, i signaled the patients to stop him and the husband finally did. it was awfull,i quit that job. 2 times is enough,get someone else , ask for a technologist or lab director to stick for the last time, unless its life death situation.

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Super. ,Trainer. in Sacramento, California

47 months ago

carolyn in Lancaster, Pennsylvania said: Hello
Could you be more clear on the answer to the question, are you saying that the standard of care is equally important if not more and amount of sticks only second? There are great phlebotomists but more concern is put on how fast rather then the quality of care even though the stick are done in the time alloted. Thank You!

A GOOD phlebotomist will draw a patient every five minutes. If someone is taking ten minutes to obtain blood specimens,They are not all that good!!! Therefore one stick in FIVE minutes is what supervisors are looking for!! One stick,good technique,obtains proper levels every five minutes=A phlebotomist with a full time permanent position!!!

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jeremy in Saint Cloud, Florida

47 months ago

sandy waller in Cleveland, Ohio said: please reply with this answer a nurse poked me 6 times and i know there is a rule somewhere but i need it in writing anyone know where i can find it?

You can only stick (Do venipunture 2 times) you try one arm.....if you don't hit the vein, you can adjust needle/move poistion of needle up to 3 times. If your not getting blood floe, then you need patients permission to try the other arm. You do not want to adjust and move needle more than 3 times, as this can cause haemotoma.
These are the rule I follow, as I draw blood from donors for a major bloodbank.

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dawne766 in New York, New York

45 months ago

What if its the doctor? I just watched a resident stick my dad about 30 ti
es trying to get blood.

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DavidK in Tuscaloosa, Alabama

44 months ago

Our 13 months old DD was at the ER in Tuscaloosa last night with fever. The nurses there sticked her 5 times before they agreed to our request for a Phlebotomist. For each stick they moved the needle very many times. Baby cried tilll her voice was gone and my wife teared up. They said they don't have a phlebotomist at the time. The last nurse used a large needle and dung very deep in the little arm several times. We decided thats enough. She still dung it in deep again before pulling it out. That's when they brought in the phlebotomist who draw the blood from the wrist without any struggle. They were very rough when checking her renal temperature as well. We had to cancel the visit and go back home. We just managed the fever at home and went to the babies doctor in the morning. Will never got to DCH Tuscaloosa unless on a stretcher. We're still in shock.

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DavidK in Tuscaloosa, Alabama

38 months ago

scp-106 in Tulsa, Oklahoma said: It's your fault you allowed them to stick her five times. You can kindly ask the physician on duty if the procedure is necessary and likely get it canceled. I know it was a long time ago, but I felt you needed to know this anyway...
.

You sound like you are in the wrong profession and I suggest you look for a job in another area. If seeing patients makes you sick then you'll die of stress very soon. You have no idea how high and how long the fever lasted yet you are quick to make conclusions. We have a good doctor who kept in touch with us every 3 hours when our kid was sick and he requested that we take her to ER. Are you suggesting that you know better? Perhaps you should keep your ideas in the laboratory instead of assuming duties of a job that you never trained for. The last time I checked it's lab techs who draw blood and not medical laboratory scientist! I hope you stick your patients correctly though.

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Cricelia in Boston, Massachusetts

14 months ago

todd in Marianna, Florida said: I realize this was started 17 months ago, but wanted to give some info in case this could help someone else.

Just wanted to point out that while many people have given great advice I do not believe we have answered what the poster was looking for. He seems to be looking for some sort of legal documentation for which there are none. As most of the above stated many many times training programs and laboratory policies often dictate that a phelb should only stick twice then ask for help from someone else. There is no Law regarding this issue. So a simple lawsuit you will not find. However if you feel a legal action is necessary you would need to take an action surrounding physical abuse. Pictures should have been taken and submitted to your lawyer. If the hospital is privately owned the lawyer will need to file for a seizure of hospital procedure policies. You will then have to pray that the person signed off that they have read and understood the form during their training. If they have not signed off (which in the medical world would not surprise me) you will then have a bigger problem on your hands directly attempting to prosecute a hospital. Unless they gave you DVT or a blood clot you wont have a great chance in court . If this was an emergency critical situation the 2 stick rule does loose its merit as Doctors need those results ASAP/STAT.

Does this form have a name?

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Cricelia in Boston, Massachusetts

14 months ago

Does this form have a name. I would like to ask the clinic. This lady bruises me and hurts me every time. I've been meaning to look for information but it wasn't till yester days shot where I have had enough. She poked me so hard the needle hurt the whole time it was in my arm from the second it went in till she took it out and today I have a bruise a little bigger than the size of a quarter. I am sick of it. She is no longer going to be allowed to touch me. Does any one have a professional way that I can approach this situation?

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Concerned in Mebane, North Carolina

13 months ago

I was stuck 4 times by two nurses in 30mins or less. I'm bruised horribly and the IV was not used. I requested they try my hand, which is where people have been successful in the past, neither would attempt this area and the last nurse said, it wasn't a good place for him.. But it is for me.. Is this enough of an issue to report? I also asked to go to the restroom, following admin of a benzo. I was unhooked from the vitals machine, but had to climb off the stretcher, myself, without the safety rails being lowered and no one assisted me to the restroom, they just pointed in the general direction... As a nurse, myself, all of these incidents are concerning.

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lavernejordan

9 months ago

The phlebotomist is only allowed 2 attempts at drawing blood, after that they should ask the patient if someone else can try to obtain their blood before the third attempt is carried out. If they say no, then you cannot try again. You should always let the doctor or nurse know that the patient denied a third attempt to cover your own behind.

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lavernejordan

9 months ago

Concerned in Mebane, North Carolina said: I was stuck 4 times by two nurses in 30mins or less. I'm bruised horribly and the IV was not used. I requested they try my hand, which is where people have been successful in the past, neither would attempt this area and the last nurse said, it wasn't a good place for him.. But it is for me.. Is this enough of an issue to report? I also asked to go to the restroom, following admin of a benzo. I was unhooked from the vitals machine, but had to climb off the stretcher, myself, without the safety rails being lowered and no one assisted me to the restroom, they just pointed in the general direction... As a nurse, myself, all of these incidents are concerning.

They should have given you a bed pan or assisted you to the restroom. This is a concern because there was no bed rails to protect you. I always listen to the patient and if they tell me this is where they normally get the blood, then I'll try that spot after making sure there is no scar tissue forming from being poked in that spot every time. If I cannot get blood there, then and only then will I ask the patient if I can try to find another vein to obtain their blood. You should talk to an attorney.

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lavernejordan

9 months ago

Cricelia in Boston, Massachusetts said: Does this form have a name. I would like to ask the clinic. This lady bruises me and hurts me every time. I've been meaning to look for information but it wasn't till yester days shot where I have had enough. She poked me so hard the needle hurt the whole time it was in my arm from the second it went in till she took it out and today I have a bruise a little bigger than the size of a quarter. I am sick of it. She is no longer going to be allowed to touch me. Does any one have a professional way that I can approach this situation?

It is called an incident report. you should also talk to her supervisor, your doctor, and hospital/clinic administration about this. Document everything that was said to you. this way if you decide to take them to court, you have proof. also take a picture of your arm to show the bruises. also, let it be known to everyone that you don't want that person to come near you again!

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Trump in Topeka, Kansas

3 months ago

laverne jordan said: It is called an incident report. you should also talk to her supervisor, your doctor, and hospital /clinic administration about this. Document everything that was said to you. this way if you decide to take them to court , you have proof. also take a picture of your arm to show the bruises. also, let it be known to everyone that you don't want that person to come near you again!

I agree that a report should be submitted, but she repeatedly let the person stick her every visit. If it was me I woukd have had made a complaint the first time and asked for someone else.

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Doyle in Niles, Ohio

18 days ago

Linda in San Diego, California said: You are allowed to make two attempts before getting help, however, if the patient asks for someone else after the first attempt, and the phlebotomist/nurse makes another attempt anyway, he/she can be charged with assault and battery.
hi i have been in the hospital alot .I am a very hard stick for getting blood.I have to stuck 23 times trying to get an IV started. I know I can refuse .but with my heart I have to watch. What can they put in me to hrlp

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