How will PTA salaries be effected from the proposed Medicare decrease in reimbursement for PT services?

March 1, 2010 PT services are looking at a 21% reduction for services rendered. This is offset, however, with a 10% increase in PE payments which makes the net loss at 11%. Will this affect PTAs salary at all? I guess this could also be asked as how are PTAs salaries determined? Is it tied into the reimbursement of PT services or more just the supply and demand of PTAs?

that's a great question - after seeing so many sources saying the demand for PTAs will grow hugely in the next decade, i'm looking at starting a PTA degree this year. but if the job future is actually going to be less stable, maybe i should try something else...

mimmik in Boulder, Colorado said: that's a great question - after seeing so many sources saying the demand for PTAs will grow hugely in the next decade, i'm looking at starting a PTA degree this year. but if the job future is actually going to be less stable, maybe i should try something else...

Great question which could possibly greatly impact the salary of PTAs yet no response.

I think it comes in waves - at one point it was hot then no so much now it's hot and I suspect with now all the schools opening for PTAs and the changes in healthcare that it will not be so hot soon.

I may have to go to school for a 3rd degree - not lookin' forward to it.

I know someone who has been laid off for 6 weeks. Can not find a place that is hiring and those few that are, are doing so on a VERY part time basis, 10-20 hours a week.

Wouldn't a decrease in reimbursement require an extra need for PTAs to perform the treatments? I guess the PT departments could just use aides, but doesn't the PTAs offer some type of billing benefit to the PT practice?

Lee in Cumberland, Maryland said: Wouldn't a decrease in reimbursement require an extra need for PTAs to perform the treatments? I guess the PT departments could just use aides, but doesn't the PTAs offer some type of billing benefit to the PT practice?

The answer is yes, since insurance companies only reimburse for services rendered by a skilled therapist ( PT/PTA). PT aids are not "skilled" individuals, nor are they therapists. They take care of the non-skilled aspect of treatments like setting the treatment areas, scheduling patients, doing the laundry, etc.. these duties could be done by any person with no prior experience/education. PT aides will not replace PTAs and the demand for PTAs will definitely keep growing because they help make PT services more affordable.

I hope that helps.

Ashraf

Are the treatments performed by PTAs at the same rate as PTs? Is this only true with Medicare or is it also true with other third-party payers?

I know that PTAs can perform most, if not all treatments performed by PTs. And insurance companies don't discriminate in pay based on being a PT/PTA. It's the same level of skill/service whether it's delivered by a PT or a PTA. PTs are required by laws in various states to reevaluate and see patients at certain time intervals. Patients can't just keep getting treatments from PTAs indefinitely, without a PT checking to make sure these services are really needed. That's true with Medicare as well as other insurance companies. If Medicare accepts something, be sure that other companies will follow it almost blindly.

~Ashraf

So it looks like both PTAs and PTs salary is looking to decrease from this cut. Hate to be debbie downer over hear. It just looks like its inevitable.

Lee,
What are the sources of your information about that alleged reduction in reimbursement? I don't think the salaries of PTs/PTAs will go down because of this. There will be many ways to work around it and even make more money.

mmm... I'm having issues posting. I had to take away the links. The info is on the APTA official website though.

I believe outpatient PT would be effected the most. The date was originally set for Jan, 1 2010. It was pushed back to Feb 28, 2010. They've been pushing the date back for a while because Physician's claim they would have to stop accepting Medicare patients if the cut went into effect. It's inevitable something needs to cut back because the current model is unsustainable. Ask a PT you know about it. I'm sure they could fill you in on more details. I really wonder sometimes the logic going on in the policy maker's heads. It seems to me that figuring out a way to tackle the fraud issue would have much more of an effect than decreasing the reimbursement of the providers. I think the value is 60 billion/year for medicare fraud. Why not figure that out? It eludes me.

I have been a PTA since 1981. I was recently laid off of the best job I have ever had in an outpatient PT clinic because of the new medicare cutback which according to the PT limits severely treatment by PTAs to medicare patients. The whole thing is a mess and the biggest losers are the patients. Unless you plan to work in a hospital setting, PTA jobs are scarce.

Jamie in Independence, Kansas said: I have been a PTA since 1981. I was recently laid off of the best job I have ever had in an outpatient PT clinic because of the new medicare cutback which according to the PT limits severely treatment by PTAs to medicare patients. The whole thing is a mess and the biggest losers are the patients. Unless you plan to work in a hospital setting, PTA jobs are scarce.

Sorry to hear that man. Any other PTAs out there who care to share their experience as well regarding this alleged Medicare cuts?

If the new Health Care Reform has not been signed yet into a law, how come we are already seeing people getting laid off because of Medicare cuts claims? This is just ridiculous.

This seems so odd. In Michigan - (the worse state ever for unemployment right now) - I haven't heard of many PTA layoffs. In fact 100% of the PTA students in 2 local colleges were placed into jobs their last semester. I attend one of these schools and they currently have 15+/- postings for PTA jobs right now.

Medicare caps for rehabilitation services is at $1860/year per beneficiary. The cap includes services rendered for all PT, OT, and speech therapy. What's feeling the hit the most is outpatient clinics and nursing homes. I'm not sure why PTAs would be laid off. I guess lack of demand for services. Jamie what was the reasoning for the lay off if you don't mind me asking?

Lee, I was told it was because of downsizing. The PT tried to say it was because Medicare regulations would not allow PTA's to work on Medicare patients in a private practice clinic, but I know that was balogna, to put it nicely. I live in a small community in Southeast Kansas, and the only job openings are at SNFs. I am almost 56 years old with 30 plus years experience in geriatrics, my body can't handle the heavy lifting any more, so the out-patient clinic was perfect.

Jamie in Independence, Kansas said: Lee, I was told it was because of downsizing. The PT tried to say it was because Medicare regulations would not allow PTA's to work on Medicare patients in a private practice clinic, but I know that was balogna, to put it nicely. I live in a small community in Southeast Kansas, and the only job openings are at SNFs. I am almost 56 years old with 30 plus years experience in geriatrics, my body can't handle the heavy lifting any more, so the out-patient clinic was perfect.

Jamie, I'm sorry you lost your job. Have you considered traveling or home health? or even pediatrics where there is not much lifting? I think you still can handle SNF if you workout and get some strength, along with using good body mechanics. Don't get me wrong! I'm not trying to tell you what to do, as you obviously have more experience/knowledge of the field than me. I'm just trying to help! I used to be weaker with no energy, but since I started going to the gym and doing some strength training, I'm more energetic and stronger. Even my back pain is gone. Good luck and let me know how it goes!

~Ashraf

Ashraf, thanks for the advice. I do exercise and am very strong. I'm just little: 5'1" and 118#.My instructors in college told my my size would work against me, but I didn't take it seriously as I am a little dog who thinks she can do anything the big dogs can do. My body mechanics are impecable, but they can't always protect you from unpredictable patients or incredibly cramped patient rooms. They also don't protect you from osteoporosis and compression fractures. I think my years of doing PT are past and I will miss it. I am currently finishing up my bathelors in psychology and will be making a career change, I just hadn't planned on it this soon as I was hoping the job I had would last another 8 months.

Jamie,
I'm sure you still can find a job in outpatient. Don't give up so easily! I lost my jobs so many times, but I never quit! I think PT is way better than psychology. I mean with a B.S. in psychology you still can't have a job. You still will need a masters. Many of my classmates in the PTA program have B.S. in psychology and they say it's totally useless without a masters. Hang in there for a while and keep looking. Good luck!

Ashraf

Jamie, I'm also sorry to hear of your job situation! Bu I also really appreciate all the info you and others are adding to this thread for those of us who are trying to decide whether or not to go into the PTA field or not.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do - sometimes curveballs like that end up to be the silver lining that leads to something else even better.... :)

I've heard the same about the Psychology degree. Almost everything seems to require a graduate education nowadays. I guess it all depends on what area you want to work in. Good luck Jamie.

To mimmik in Boulder, don't let my comments turn you away from being a PTA. Being a PTA was the best thing I ever did or I wouldn't have stayed with it for more than 30 years. I know if I lived in a large metropolitin area like Boulder there would be more opportunities, but I live in a small city of about 9,000. I moved from Kansas City to work at Mercy Hospital and was there for 7 years. I left because it turned into a money grubbing gestapo where the bottom line became more important than the people. My experiences with my patients is what made being a PTA so fun. I will still be working with patients, just in a different capacity. And I do plan to get my masters.

Aphex in Falls Church, Virginia said: Sorry to hear that man. Any other PTAs out there who care to share their experience as well regarding this alleged Medicare cuts?

Unfortunately, many PT's and their supervisors are confusing the issue between PTA's and PT aides/techs. Medicare does reimburse for PTA treatments not PT Aides or techs.

Jill

Jill Heitzman, PT, DPT, GCS, CWS, FACCWS in Opelika, Alabama said: Unfortunately, many PT's and their supervisors are confusing the issue between PTA's and PT aides/techs. Medicare does reimburse for PTA treatments not PT Aides or techs.

Jill

I'm not understanding this statement. So PTs and their supervisors are accidentally laying off PTAs instead of PT aides/techs? Is the statement saying PTAs aren't getting laid off because they provide revenue while the PT aides are getting laid off because they don't?

To All PTA's out there. Look in the journals. You'll find many openings for PTA's for traveling or within your states and possibly close by where you live. In the journals you'll see hundreds of jobs out there for PT's. Believe me, there aren't enough PT's to go around. Now that most schools are requiring a Doctoral degree, there still won't be enough PT's to go around. The baby boomers are beginning to retire. Which means there is going to be a greater demand for PTA's. If you see an opening for a PT, ask how long they've been looking for a PT first, and then see if they are interested in a good PTA. Hang in there!

Lynn in Dearborn, Michigan said: This seems so odd. In Michigan - (the worse state ever for unemployment right now) - I haven't heard of many PTA layoffs. In fact 100% of the PTA students in 2 local colleges were placed into jobs their last semester. I attend one of these schools and they currently have 15+/- postings for PTA jobs right now.

Hi Lynn, I am in Michigan just recently got my license am looking for pta home care jobs, do u know what is a good rate current for licensed pta's in michigan, pls do reply to me at gidwani.chitra@gmail.com

Family Home Health Services www.fhhs.us is hiring!

mimmik in Boulder, Colorado said: Jamie, I'm also sorry to hear of your job situation! Bu I also really appreciate all the info you and others are adding to this thread for those of us who are trying to decide whether or not to go into the PTA field or not.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do - sometimes curveballs like that end up to be the silver lining that leads to something else even better.... :)

Since I am in the same boat you were in at the time you wrote this post, I want to know if you went ahead with PTA school? Thanks!

Lee in Cumberland, Maryland said: March 1, 2010 PT services are looking at a 21% reduction for services rendered. This is offset, however, with a 10% increase in PE payments which makes the net loss at 11%. Will this affect PTAs salary at all? I guess this could also be asked as how are PTAs salaries determined? Is it tied into the reimbursement of PT services or more just the supply and demand of PTAs?

Lee, of course your salary will be affected if your employer sustains such a severe cut. Typically profit margins in any business are between 10 and 20%. You cut 10% to 20% of their remuneration and guess what...your employer still has to make a profit. If you think that is evil...ask what the alternative is...I'll fill in the blanks...no job, no company. What are his options...go to the landlord and request a change in his lease...maybe but not likely, renegoiate his health insurance contract...maybe but not likely...reduce your salary...there you go. And don't hate him for it. Clinicians are are the people that ask such silly questions. They are also the ones who do not give to their local or national PAC to fight the cuts.

The policy that will affect PTAs is the RC 3-11. Look it up and do some research. It is supposed to go into effect in July 2012, where it will enable Athletic Trainers and Massage Therapist to do the jobs of PTAs, whom which can be paid much less than PTAs.