Advantages of PA vs Physician

I am wondering if anyone would be willing to share their opinions on what they like the most about being a PA. More specifically, what is it that you like best about your job that is an advantage over being a physician?
Thanks!

Im in my last year of PA school. This is why I chose PA over med school.

as a PA you can change specialty whenever you want without having to go back to school. Dr's can't do that. They can't change their specialty without going through another multiple year residency program. If a PA wants to do surgery for a few years, and then switch to dermatology they have the complete freedom to do that.

I also chose to be a PA because of the lenght of schooling. it is 8 years to graduate from med school, and then you have 3-5 years or more of residency. Most doctors who start right out of high school wont get their first job until their mid 30's. it's 6 years to be a PA, and no residency involved. if you already have a bachelors degree, its only 2 years.

The time spent working was another factor for me. The dr's ive been with never truly have a day off. theyre always working. I want to have a life other than just working.

lastly, if i was a guy, i probably would have gone to medical school. I want to get married/have kids one day. I'm not going to spend a huge amount of money and time to be a doctor when I really cant be a full time mother and a full time doctor at the same time. I don't want to have kids and not be able to remain committed to a career.

i hope this helps!

wow i have always debated a to going to med school or becoming a P.A i am leaning to becoming a P.A it's good to hear that you have the option to rotate to different aspects it sounds liberal.

I've been a PA for 7 yrs now after being a nurse for 18 yrs and believe one major advantage to being a PA is you always have backup from the supervising physician if needed.

If you want to be a doctor go to medical school, if you want to be a PA go to PA school. Here is the facts; to be a doctor it is only 2 more years of school on top of what PAs do. Residency is hands on the job training, you get paid and no longer spend time sitting in classes and constantly studying. As a doctor you get paid ALOT more. One of the biggest myths is saying that doctors always work. As a doctor it is your choice how and when you want to work, just use your head. If you want to work alot of hours then go ahead and you will make even more money. I have a relative who works constantly as a MD and makes $800,000 a year. I also have a brother who is an MD but only works 35 hours a week and makes $200,000 a year. Its your choice.

Sue Nichter in Buffalo, New York said: I've been a PA for 7 yrs now after being a nurse for 18 yrs and believe one major advantage to being a PA is you always have backup from the supervising physician if needed.

Hello, Im currently enrolled in a 4 year nursing school and i was thinking about transferring. If i do transfer it will be into a 6 year 3+3 PA program. Would you recommend i stay in nursing school and then after attend a 2 Year PA school to recieve my masters or should I do the joint program... I am having trouble making a decision...When you decided to go to PA school was there any pre-reqs that u needed to complete before you enetered that you did not have for your nursing degree?

Sue Nichter in Buffalo, New York said: I've been a PA for 7 yrs now after being a nurse for 18 yrs and believe one major advantage to being a PA is you always have backup from the supervising physician if needed.

My name is Sam and I have a question for you Sue , hope you 'll be able to answer it, due to your long term work and experience.
Iam still debating on where to start as to have an Associate PA Degree or Bachelor , cause I have to start from scratch Iam affraid that after I get my Associate degree then I will regret why didn't I do bachelor instead,I heard that hospitals look into the degree beside your license is it true ? Iam 38 years old and thats why iam trying to find in some way the shortest path to PA.
PLZ your opinion would be highly appreciated.Iam really lost in finding the right answer , I don't want to study and spend the amount of time and money and at the end find difficult time to get hired or don't get paid like other PA.
the second question if you may what is the suitable, short way to gain the hands on experience ? EMT OR Phlebotomy Do you think that there would be a hands on experience involved with Phlebotomy ?

I've been a PA for about two years now. I absolutely love what I do and all the benefits that come with being a practitioner. However, if I had to do it again, I would definitely have gone to med school to be an MD. As I gain more experience as a PA, I become much more comfortable treating patients and I hardly ever need to consult my supervising physician anymore regarding patient's treatment plans. Even though I feel eventually I'll be comparably skilled to my supervising physician, I'll never have the same level of authority. If I am in practice for 10 years and have a great grasp on my particular field, a brand new M.D. may come out of med school or internship and automatically will have more authority than me though they may know much less. Patients are generally accepting of PAs, and it doesn't usually cause a problem, but occasionally they say they'd like to make sure the physician agrees with my diagnosis and treatment plan - frustrating. The argument that physicians can't change specialties and would have to do another residency isn't true, as I once thought. If you are a licensed physician, you are legally licensed to perform any degree of medicine. Not that you would, of course, but you can. I know several doctors who have done a family practice residency who only work in ERs, but never have done an Emergency Medicine residency. It's all in what a physician feels comfortable doing and what he or she feels they are willing to take the risk doing. But legally, they can do anything they want regardless of their board certification/eligibility. It's crazy for me to think about going back to school at this point to be an MD. There's too much expense, too much money that I would lose not being a full-time PA, and how could I ever remember organic chemistry from undergrad in order to get a good MCAT score? I am hopeful that with time I will be more accepting of my profession, but I do have these fleeting moments of regret..

Joe in Wallingford, Connecticut said: If you want to be a doctor go to medical school, if you want to be a PA go to PA school. Here is the facts; to be a doctor it is only 2 more years of school on top of what PAs do. Residency is hands on the job training, you get paid and no longer spend time sitting in classes and constantly studying. As a doctor you get paid ALOT more. One of the biggest myths is saying that doctors always work. As a doctor it is your choice how and when you want to work, just use your head. If you want to work alot of hours then go ahead and you will make even more money. I have a relative who works constantly as a MD and makes $800,000 a year. I also have a brother who is an MD but only works 35 hours a week and makes $200,000 a year. Its your choice.

Hey!

Just want to say thank you SO much for your insight, and for portraying the facts ACCURATELY!!! I'm a female about to start medical school in two months, and I cannot tell you how many people have tried to discourage me from pursuing medicine based on their lack of CORRECT information!

I think most people are simply intimidated by the schooling factor, but as you clearly presented, schooling of a physician vs. a physician's assistant has a gap of only 2 years.

I agree that people should'nt imply that to be a doctor is too impractical (i.e. the belief that a woman doctor can't raise a family, or that doctors dont have lives outside of the hospital!). Likewise, people should'nt imply that PA's are second rate doctors either.

Like you said, if you want to be a doctor, go to medical school. If you want to be a PA, go to PA school!

PA-C in Tampa, Florida said: I've been a PA for about two years now. I absolutely love what I do and all the benefits that come with being a practitioner. However, if I had to do it again, I would definitely have gone to med school to be an MD. As I gain more experience as a PA, I become much more comfortable treating patients and I hardly ever need to consult my supervising physician anymore regarding patient's treatment plans. Even though I feel eventually I'll be comparably skilled to my supervising physician, I'll never have the same level of authority. If I am in practice for 10 years and have a great grasp on my particular field, a brand new M.D. may come out of med school or internship and automatically will have more authority than me though they may know much less. Patients are generally accepting of PAs, and it doesn't usually cause a problem, but occasionally they say they'd like to make sure the physician agrees with my diagnosis and treatment plan - frustrating. The argument that physicians can't change specialties and would have to do another residency isn't true, as I once thought. If you are a licensed physician, you are legally licensed to perform any degree of medicine. Not that you would, of course, but you can. I know several doctors who have done a family practice residency who only work in ERs, but never have done an Emergency Medicine residency. It's all in what a physician feels comfortable doing and what he or she feels they are willing to take the risk doing. But legally, they can do anything they want regardless of their board certification/eligibility. It's crazy for me to think about going back to school at this point to be an MD. There's too much expense, too much money that I would lose not being a full-time PA, and how could I ever remember organic chemistry from undergrad in order to get a good MCAT score? I am hopeful that with time I will be more accepting of my profession, but I do have these fleeting moments of regret..[/Q

Joe in Wallingford, Connecticut said: If you want to be a doctor go to medical school, if you want to be a PA go to PA school. Here is the facts; to be a doctor it is only 2 more years of school on top of what PAs do. Residency is hands on the job training, you get paid and no longer spend time sitting in classes and constantly studying. As a doctor you get paid ALOT more. One of the biggest myths is saying that doctors always work. As a doctor it is your choice how and when you want to work, just use your head. If you want to work alot of hours then go ahead and you will make even more money. I have a relative who works constantly as a MD and makes $800,000 a year. I also have a brother who is an MD but only works 35 hours a week and makes $200,000 a year. Its your choice.

I'm going through the pa vs md debate myself. If I may be bold enough to ask, in which field does your brother work only 35 hours a week ?
Thanks in advance

My brother works about 30-35 hours a week as an internist. He makes around 171,000 a year and does several talks for diabetes a year and makes about another 15,000-23,000 extra a year. He has been a doctor for 8 years.

Hello,
I have a question and need help with alot of answers. Currently I have a Medical Assistant Certificate and have been working as one for eight years. Now I want and need to go back to school and pursue a PA degree. Can some one please tell me how long will it take me to achieve my goal? I know my Medical Assistant program credits are transferable is a total of 21 credits, but I dont know if all of them will count. I have been talking to people and guidance councelours but all give me different versions and is just getting me more confused. Also Can I go to an On-Line School to pursue this degree? and most important can I obtain a Bachelors and a PA Degree together or do I have to tranfer out after im done with a bachelor degree? I really need help here...

Thank you..

I am a M.A too, and I am in College at night while I work as a MA. Unfortunatelly, the credits I gained in the MA program cannot be transferable to anyplace because I went ot a private school, that I did not know did not have agreement with other schools to transfer credits.So, I had to start over. Anyway,the first thing you need to do is to determine which school you want to go, and what degree you want to get: An AS, a BS or a MS degree. After you have decided this, you need to start contacting schools depending on the kind of degree you want. Once you find the school, contact de PA program to see what are their pre requisits, sometimes you can meet these pre requs in a Community College, then you can transfer wherever you want. Just make sure you contact the PA school first, because if you go to the advicing office for the undergrad program, they will make you take classes that at the end you will find out that you did not need them. I hope this info can help you a little bit. I contacted the AAPA for advice and they really helped me a lot. You may want to contac them. Good luck!

Hi everyone,

I am second year PA student enrolled in a 5 year physician assistant program. I have debated many times between becoming a PA or DO/MD. If I continued and graduated as PA how difficult would it be to go to medical school. In my program students do not take a single physics course or a math course besides statistics and to my understanding they are required for acceptance into medical school.

That is kind of long...I have heard that most of the PA programs are two years, why are you going to a 5 year program? In five years you could go to Med School instead...

Carolyn in Wilton, New Hampshire said: Im in my last year of PA school. This is why I chose PA over med school.

as a PA you can change specialty whenever you want without having to go back to school. Dr's can't do that. They can't change their specialty without going through another multiple year residency program. If a PA wants to do surgery for a few years, and then switch to dermatology they have the complete freedom to do that.

I also chose to be a PA because of the lenght of schooling. it is 8 years to graduate from med school, and then you have 3-5 years or more of residency. Most doctors who start right out of high school wont get their first job until their mid 30's. it's 6 years to be a PA, and no residency involved. if you already have a bachelors degree, its only 2 years.

The time spent working was another factor for me. The dr's ive been with never truly have a day off. theyre always working. I want to have a life other than just working.

lastly, if i was a guy, i probably would have gone to medical school. I want to get married/have kids one day. I'm not going to spend a huge amount of money and time to be a doctor when I really cant be a full time mother and a full time doctor at the same time. I don't want to have kids and not be able to remain committed to a career.

i hope this helps!

By you providing me with this information just about changed a life altering decision and for that I really thank you. THanks very much for that informaition i appreciate it, now i don't have to go to med school. Thank god. I can just be a PA.

DON"T DO IT!!! There are two bottom lines in the allied health profession: 1)Job satisfaction and 2)MONEY. As an RN, you have the option of going all the way to geting a Doctorate as Advanced Practicing Nurse (DANP). You can choose either a clinical position or an academic with the DNP. You have total , 100% autonomy. I know Nurse Practitioners who set up practice and HIRE doctors. A PA can NEVER have full autonomy and will NEVER make as much as a doctor. DNP can and do. Call me (202)549-7136 for more info. I like being a PA, but I'm working on a Doctorate of Health Education. I work HARDER than the doctors, but make HALF the money. GRRRR!

Bryan Wood in Thorofare, New Jersey said: Hello, Im currently enrolled in a 4 year nursing school and i was thinking about transferring. If i do transfer it will be into a 6 year 3+3 PA program. Would you recommend i stay in nursing school and then after attend a 2 Year PA school to recieve my masters or should I do the joint program... I am having trouble making a decision...When you decided to go to PA school was there any pre-reqs that u needed to complete before you enetered that you did not have for your nursing degree?

Oh Yeah, I forgot to tell you. Here's a caveat for all those who choose a PA profession. After several years of practicing, you realize that you know as much, if not more than the doctors. I've been a PA for more than 7 years. I work as an HIV/Infectious Disease specialist. I love it! I have NO desire to specialize in anything else (can't stand surgery)! I function with 95% autonomy and can even write Rx for controlled substances (e.g. Percocet, Oxycodone). All of my patient want to see me instead of the doctor. I make some house calls and my patients can contact me via cell phone. I've been a college professor for PA programs and even get paid to lecture about HIV. Now, here's the kicker. As clinically talented and knowledgeable as I feel I am (and others have told me), I can NEVER work without having a licesenced MD as my Supervisor. Further, now matter how talented and BRILLIANT a PA is he/she will NEVER be equal to even the most MEDIOCRE doctor. Lastly, we will NEVER get paid what MDs make. I'm at two non-profit clinics where I make about $95K/yr. That puts me on the high end for PA earnings. However, the MD "ONLY" makes $145K/yr. AND I ACTUALLY DO MORE WORK! Now, I don't owe $250,000.00 worth of student loans. But you've got to consider. That's not that much if you're 35 y.o. and start making an average salary of $180,000.00 (took 20K out for malpractice for an Internist)for the next 30 years. I am now finding the lack of an MD degree quite limiting in what I want to do career-wise. There are medical and pharmaceutical companies that have offered me speaking oppurtunities with sizeable fees. When I inform them I'm a PA they are shocked and regretful. I get, "WOW! You're so knowledgeable, but sorry. We only use use MDs". IN D.C., $95K is nothing.I've a stay-at-home wife home schooling our four young children. At this point in my career, I'm even contemplating applying to Medical School; and I'm 40 years old!!!

I am a PA with >20yrs exp. No longer work as PA. Don't forget to get a balanced view. You need both upside info and downside info to make a good decision. Frankly, you need to make your decision from those with many years experience, who have dealt with "issues" thru the years...not students or others with only a few years out. The emotional rewards are exactly as MDs. Patients treat you the same, if not better since a PA is usually more there for them. Financial rewards...will always be limited, plus, you are forced to work in a way that may not ethically be in YOUR best interest. For me, I hated being asked on interviews," how many patients can you see a day?" In other words, can you see a patient every 5 minutes and make us money? THAT is not what I went into medicine for!! Unfortunately, that is where the industry in general, has gone...but it wasn't like that in the 80's.
Also, if you want to work less hours....they will always see that as less income to them, since you are a revenue generator. Guess how much they like you being gone? Think they care if you are stressed out???? Another point, I chose PA because I thought it would be easier to combine my business skills with medicine, since docs ARE tied to clinics more. But, I've found that recruiters never value your medical background if there is an interesting job with a corporation involving medical prodults, general research, or liason work for development companies...or something else that does not NEED an official MD degree...just similar knowledge. They have no knowledge of how to sell your skills at all, in any way. If you jump over to business....they don't know how to value your skills on the payroll. No one really understands. Fifteen years ago it was less of a problem because fewer MDs left clinical medicine...but now they are leaving. They will place the dumbest guy in the medical school class with an MD, before a top PA from a best medical school with both business and finance experience.

A few more points....
In the corporate world, a MD on your Board, carries weight and penache. A PA doesn't.

In global markets, a PA does not translate to a significant carreer.

It is very frustrating to have been trained at a top medical school, yet have your salary capped, limited, and no good outlet for advancement. There are RNs that are CEOs of hospitals and hold top level administrative positions. I don't know of any PAs in similar positions....usually because the PA generates a different level of revenue. They don't want to loose their higher revenue generators to office positions...just as you don't tend to see MDs in those positions. Still, that is a two sided back-handed complement....which gets old 20 years out.

I love medicine. I miss clinical medicine. But in my 50's, I don't want to work like a machine. I want to value and enjoy my patients. Not easily possible in managed care. So...I now use my medical knowledge in industry.

There are a lot of emotionally rewarding careers in medicine. However, if your reason is money, or to own your own business....you might want to look around more. Just make sure you ask people with many years of experience, preferably over 10 yrs.

Still....a very admirable profession.

Good luck.

Josh in Saint Marys, Pennsylvania said: Hi everyone,

I am second year PA student enrolled in a 5 year physician assistant program. I have debated many times between becoming a PA or DO/MD. If I continued and graduated as PA how difficult would it be to go to medical school. In my program students do not take a single physics course or a math course besides statistics and to my understanding they are required for acceptance into medical school.

Generally, Pre-Med requirements look like this:

2 semesters General Chemistry with Lab
2 semesters Organic Chemistry with Lab
2 semesters General Physics with Lab
2 semesters Biology with Lab (my program is actually 4 semesters of Bio, 3 with Lab)
2 semesters English
General Math (usually Algebra and Trigonometry)
Some programs also require a semester of Biochemistry

I am a pre-med student going into my senior year of my bachelor's degree in Biology. It is going to take me 5 years for my Bachelor's because I decided to switch majors a year ago. I am starting to feel a lot of stress about getting into med school because I lost my 4.0 last semester when I got a B in a class, and I was considering being a PA. After reading all of this, I am really thinking I would much rather be an MD/DO, as long as I can learn to manage my stress better.

Josh, regarding your question about Physics and math, not sure I can help. I had a math minor, and was a chemistry major. But, I had 50+ hours in Chemistry and other pre-med undergraduate classes, including analytical chemistry, 2 years calculus, physics, statistics, etc. Personally, I think all are important in medicine...regardless if you do PA, DO, or MD. This is why they call this area "science". In medicine, you use a lot of math, chemistry, and need a good understanding of statistics in order to read research reports, do clinical studies, and in certain areas of medicine, physics is used a lot. BioChemistry is a MUST. If you don't get it in undergraduate, you will have a very hard time with it in medical school. You can not get out of medical school without heavy understanding and memorization of biochemistry.....which is the basics of pharmacalogy.

If these courses are an issue for you....PLUS, you have issues regarding stress.....I would highly encourage you to take some time off, and reconsider your ambitions....perhaps to another field which may be more tangential to these core medical professions. There is tremendous stress in medical school....regardless if you graduate as a PA, or MD. There's nothing easy about it....and trust me, the patients, and their attorney's, all expect you to know the same thing!! There is no grading on the "curve", when it comes to life and death. And don't ever fool yourself into believing that you don't have that power as a PA. It is not something to take lightly. Patients need you to be excellent at what you do. And your advice must me 100% right, or consequences can be dire. If you are not comfortable with formulations, stress, pre-emptive troubleshooting, detailed scientific data, analysis, chemistry, engineering...etc....reconsider...or find a quick way to remedy the weak areas. Good luck.

I'm about to interview for PA school and I think the main difference between deciding whether PA or MD school is for you is your personal goals. For me, I'd like to be out of school and in a stable and growing career in a short time so I can start a family within 5-8 years. I am thinking about marriage and all that and my boyfriend will also be sacrificing by following me to school. I think our relationship would be severely strained if I went away to med school for 4 years then the difficult residency that follows. So my goals for family would be years and years away until I was in a stable practice as an MD. It doesn't matter to me if I'm not the authority on medicine as a PA as much as an MD. I enjoy (and work best) in a team environment and I honestly look forward to consultations with the supervising MD and other practicing PAs, nurses, administrative staff, etc., in the hospital or clinic. Yeah, it might bother me if I'm in the PA career for a while and some younger-than-me MD comes in and changes the way I work, but who really knows. I shadowed a few PAs and I asked one, "What do you do when the patient refuses to see the 'assistant' to the doctor and wants the MD himself?" She said, "Yeah, I used to get mad about it and I wanted to say, 'hey, I'm as good as that MD!' but I just would send them back to chairs for a 2 hr wait to see the MD!"

I guess what I'm trying to say is that being a PA or MD is a way of life. Sure, you can have a family and be a successful MD, but for me, the challenge of working in medicine as a part of a team and be out there in a short amount of time is just want I want. (This is my second career, by the way.) And I can always go to medical school, even if I'm 50 and am tired of being a PA. I wouldn't want to spend all the time and money in medical school only to wonder what being a PA would be like later down the road.

I agree with you, Katie. There are PAs who do go to MD school afterwards. I know a few, as well as one who later went to dental school, because a DO, and also lawyer.

The problem is that no matter how much you study or know, there is a perception in the eyes of others, that you are not the TOP decision maker, the final word, or the most knowledgeable one with your group. In time, years down the line, this can be frustrating. For my friends who went on to other programs, they did it immediately upon graduating from the PA program, or shortly thereafter. When we graduated, no one knew or understood the profession, so it was really emotionally hard.

By the way, in almost 25 yrs in the profession, I never ever ever had any patient refuse to be seen by me. Never! I found your comment strange, both the comment itself, and the response by the person you were shadowing. In fact, many patients now prefer the PA as they tend to give them more personalized attention. But even when few knew anything about the profession, no one ever said they didn't want to be seen by me.

There are definite negatives to becoming a PA. No one should think differently. All professions have good and bad points. Your salary is capped as a PA. You will never make more than the doc....and he will always be YOUR boss, and your job will always be in their hands. The only way to make more, love what you do and have security, is to be your own boss. If you can find a way to do that as a PA, by owning the clinic or something....then you are very lucky.

My brother was a nurse anesthetist. He too needed to work FOR a doc. But they could own their own business and contract out their services to various doctors and hospitals. He made lots of money. PAs, can't do this. Trust an ole-timer....if your personality is one of a LEADER type, not FOLLOWER, it will become an issue with time. However, if you are happy working and following others....with no need for independence, then you will do fine.

well i am 18 years old and will be enntering a PA program at St Johns University. The program is 4 years straight and I will be a PA at age 22. I was wondering after i graduate can my credits transfer over and lessen my years of medical school?

So I am starting my 3rd year of college, but I am only going part time, as I work full time. I am 20 years old. I have struggled long and hard about what I want to get my degree in, "what I want to be when I grow up," etc. I have always been interested in the health care profession (my mom was a paramedic), and I am currently getting my EMT.

From here I need some help with where to go. I have thought strongly about becoming a PA, but I need some help with what will be the best way?

1. Should I finish my EMT, and work as such while I get a BA/BS in something else, (currently I am a family studies major). more/higher education

2. Or should I continue with my EMT, further to get my medic liscense, and then go to PA school. more medical experience

I realize that getting into a PA school is difficult, and that it takes some dediation, so I dont forsee going to such for at least 5 years. But it is in the mean time that I am not sure about. I dont care if you are a PA already, just getting into the program, or just have some good info for me, please let me know what you think.. Thanks!

I just went through the application/PA school selection process. I will start school in Jan at EVMS.

In my opinion, it depends on what PA programs you might want to apply to. The majority of the schools like/require you to have medical experience, so the EMT or other medical training you're pursuing would be favorable. But 99% of PA programs require a 4-year degree (BS or BA) so, if it were me, I'd continue with EMT and go for whatever major you want. I was a BS Recreation major and had to take a few science prereqs before getting accepted into the PA program. So you don't necessarily have to have a medical/science BS degree to get in. I think they prefer a well-rounded applicant anyway.

On another note, some of the prerequisites classes (like chem, micro, etc) need to be taken within the last 5-10 years (depending on the program) so if you're planning on pursuing the PA profession, keep that in mind so you don't have to retake any prereqs.

Hope that helps! Good luck!

Bryan Wood in Thorofare, New Jersey said: Hello, Im currently enrolled in a 4 year nursing school and i was thinking about transferring. If i do transfer it will be into a 6 year 3+3 PA program. Would you recommend i stay in nursing school and then after attend a 2 Year PA school to recieve my masters or should I do the joint program... I am having trouble making a decision...When you decided to go to PA school was there any pre-reqs that u needed to complete before you enetered that you did not have for your nursing degree?

I definetly recommend that you stay in the nursing program then a Master's in PA. This way you have a job simply with your undergrad, also you then have three options, remaining a nurse, becoming a nurse practitioner, or a physician assistant. Nurse practitioners can practice on their own if that's something you are more interested in. Good luck!

Joe in Wallingford, Connecticut said: If you want to be a doctor go to medical school, if you want to be a PA go to PA school. Here is the facts; to be a doctor it is only 2 more years of school on top of what PAs do. Residency is hands on the job training, you get paid and no longer spend time sitting in classes and constantly studying. As a doctor you get paid ALOT more. One of the biggest myths is saying that doctors always work. As a doctor it is your choice how and when you want to work, just use your head. If you want to work alot of hours then go ahead and you will make even more money. I have a relative who works constantly as a MD and makes $800,000 a year. I also have a brother who is an MD but only works 35 hours a week and makes $200,000 a year. Its your choice.

You seem to be very lost. A top notch surgeon doesn't even make $ 800,000 a year. According to research. The average pay for a doctor is only that of 197,000. (Payscale.Com, Salary.com, Vault.com, etc...) And sure its only two more years than a Physicians Assistant. But remember there are residency years and a graduate would be likely to make over 35,000. I'm well aware of this as my sister is in her last year of residency right now, making literally minumum wage. So really, its more like 5-6 more years.

I was wondering if anyone knows information or where I can find information regarding PA's working internationally. I did some searcing on the internet and found some information but wanted to know if some experienced people had any info.
Also, I'm starting the process for applying to PA school. Does anyone have any advice as to what to expect during the interviews and just any tips for applying in general. I have a B.S. already and about a yr of patient care experience. Anything else you already PA people would like to send to a prospective student???

I don't have any information about PAs working internationally, although I heard Canada is/is going to be using PAs in their health care system. I just applied, interviewed, and got into PA school and here's some tips:
Know the PAs role - everything from history to which schedule of drugs they can prescribe, and how the physician-PA team works.
They'll ask you "why PA?" or "why not med school?" Make sure you know the difference between PAs and MDs
They'll probably ask you why you choose that school.
They'll probably ask you ethical questions like what do you do if you think your MD made the wrong treatment plan (the patient always comes first!)
They'll ask you strengths and weaknesses (what would you contribute to the PA class? What are 3 things that you'd change about yourself?)
They'll ask about issues in the PA profession. One question that threw me was "where do you see the PA profession in 2015?"
And don't go into "what they want to hear" like you want to serve the underserved and "help people" or anything you find on their website. They know what's on their website and if you just recite stuff, they will think it's not your true answer.
I prepared by googling medical school interview questions and made sure I was prepared for each topic. I must have interviewed well because I beat out 720 applicants. :)
Just remember, they will be spending the next 2+ yrs with you. They want someone who is intelligent, a good group-worker (in my group interview, they had us discuss a topic within our group and come up with an answer as a whole), and someone who will be easy to get along with. If you go into the interview like you know everything, don't smile, and are pushy, you won't get in no matter what your medical experience!

I hope that helps!

See people talk bout becoming a doctor, this that and the third, and how much money they make.... My sister is in med school right now, and shes told me she regrets it. Doctors make alot of money but if you think bout it they loose alot more. people forget to factor out simple economics...

Here in New York there a MANY b.s PA schools Downstate,St.johns, Touro, York and others in the surrounding tri state area just to name a few.

Now lets say I become a PA at the age of 22 gettin a b.s degree. Here in New York City (i dont know bout upstate) the average starting salary for a PA is around 80k /85k give or take, with 3% or more increase every year. In 5 years a PA can be making upwards of 95-110k salary from one job.. (mind you most PA's have mulitiple jobs).

Now lets say i work 10 12 years and now im 32 34 the average age of a starting Physician including residency....

By the time im 32, 34 as a P.A ive made more then likely about $1.3 million...
with loan forgiveness if i have debt, or if i went to Downstate, Stony Brook, or York, im paying pennies on the dollar and would be able to pay back my school loans within the first month of working as a P.A.

So now im 32 and over a 1.3million up on a doctor who went to Medical School because from all accounts Ive heard you cannot work while in Medical School.

Then add up tution per year in Medical school which is about 45- 50 thousand a year most school, then add room and bored another 7k-10k, and oh yeah u have to eat, buy clothes, some may have a car also in Medical School in areas where thats the only way to get around... so lets put a rough estimate on that at around 65k per year (and im being on the low side)...

Multiply 65k x 6 years of medical school= $390k....

Plus the money would have made and being a P.A= $1.3 million

By the time a Medical School student becomes a practicing doctor, the P.A would be approximetly 1.7 million dollars up on that doctor...

I didnt get into the social aspects of becoming a doctor. My sister is in medical school right now and on more the one occassion she says she regrets it.
People say they want to go to medical school but dont really know exactly what it takes and what kind of sacrifice you would have to go through to get there besides finacially....
Medical school requires complete commitment, as does PA school, but for alot longer of a time....
Meaning from age 22 to 30, your life is school, your friends are people from school, you have no family, your family are your classmates...
U cant get 10 years of your 20s back... Parties?
Everyday my sister complains about things like when am i going to have time have a stable relationship? When am in going to have time to find a husband? when am i going to get married? When will i have kids?
Thats just going through medical school. People complain about the autonomy but doctors have alot of pressure on them and responsiblity... everyone heard of malpractice? How bout malpractice insurance? P.A's for the most part dont have to worry about that. Peace of mind is something that cant be purchased. Being a Surgeon? Overated, yeah u make 350k to 500, but u work 75 hours a week, you are never off because you are ALWAYS on call. So what is 350k worth if you dont have time to see it? Big house but you mostly just sleep in it. Can't really plan anything becuase ur only a beep away from being in the hospital....
The fact of the matter is there are good and bad parts to every job.
If being a doctor is really your dream then thats a sacrifice that you will make with a smile. For the PA's who are not happy with your job, why did you become a PA in the first place? You knew what the job entailed but now you are sitting here complainging. All the P.A's I know love thier jobs. Most people dont have interferance with a doctor. Most doctors trust P.A's more then NPs because P.A's are taught under a medical model. Most doctors only VERIFY with a P.As

The bottom line is both are great proffessions and very financially rewarding. If you are sure you want to become a doctor, then P.A shouldnt even be in the conversation, just become a doctor. If you want to become a P.A become a P.A. Then people complain about money about a P.A. P.A's goes to school for 4 years if its b.s or 6 years if its M.S. Doctors go to school 8years plus residency. Of course a doctor makes more!! 4 years in school making 80k-110k is way above average salary for an average person in the United States. P.A's get tons of respect in the medical feild but the problem is people are mixing the 2 professions. A P.A is not a doctor, and a doctor is not a P.A. They both have advantages and disadvantages. People get confused when they try to pin the both together like they are the samething. They do alot of the samethings yes. But dont get mad at the profession if you second guessed your self about your profession and went towards P.A. P.A is a beautiful profession anyone who truly wants to become a P.A become one, who ever TRULY wants to become a doctor do it. But dont try to down play a P.A its one of the best professions in the world.
Oh yeah by the way CNN named it one of the top 5 best jobs to have in America....

money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bestjobs/2006/snapshots/5.html

Copy and Paste that for all the haters!!!

Hi everyone, I am a pre-pa student at york college.
I have an important question for those of you already in the pa field.

IS IT IMPORTANT WHAT SCHOOL YOU ATTENDED AND GRADUATED FROM TO BECOME A PA????

OR DOES IT JUST MATTER YOUR GPA FROM THAT SCHOOL AND WELL YOU AS A WHOLE?

PLEASE IM DEBATING WHETHER I SHOULD TRANSFER OUT OF YORK COLLEGE AND INTO A PRIVATE UNIVERSITY
WITH MORE FAME.

P.S if im a smart P.A, 1.7 million dollars invested,with compounding interest a doctor will never catch up to me....

I completely agree with everything you said. I'm a Medical Assistant and I work in a big group of physicians. Of course I am around doctors all the time. I specially work with two doctors, one of them is my best friend. Let me tell you guys...being a doctor is great, but I think that when someone is thinking about becoming a doctor should not think about the benefits of being a doctor, which are a lot. However, an intelligent person will think about the risks and responsabilities they have. I have seen in real life what is to be a doctor. They are reponsible for every single thing tha happen in the clinic. That without counting the HUGE responsability they have when they do surgeries. Also the stress that they have to work under is too much in comparison to what they make. It is true that it is not worthy to make a lot of money and have pestige if you do not have time to spend with your family, to spend the money you have made. Docotors never have time to be with their kids, not even with their partners. They do not have time to be with their friends. Being a doctor does not have to do only with seen patients and doing surgeries. It also has to do with doing lectures for medical students, grading tests, going to meetings,which a lot of times requires to be away home more than one day, going to court for depositions (even if you know you did not do anything,sometimes doctors are called as witnesses), going to seminars, being on call 24hrs or sometimes 48hrs. This profession is not something that you do just when you go to the office, this is something that you do 24/7/365/forever. So, when I am working with the doctors I work with, I do not see my job as a job, I see it as training and like something that is helping me see in real life what is to be a doctor, so that, I can decide if that kind of life is what I really want for me, for my future kids and my future partner. If I decide to be a doctor, I will be completely aware of what it is about...

i understand that in your interview and personal statement the admissions committee doesn't want to hear that you want to help people, or work with underserved communities bc it's what everyone says and has been repeated numerous times. every resource will tell you that they don't want to hear that answer. so what do you think they want to hear? i mean isn't that the reason that people go into health care, is to help people and to work in medicine.
i'm just at a loss for words when that question is asked, why do you want to be a PA because my answer would be that i want to help people and to provide exceptional health care.

so i ask you guys who have made it into pa school how you handled that question, why do you want to be a pa?

thank you katie from penn. with your insight and help!
and pre-pa student, i thought what you wrote was great.

Thanks for your compliment. I think it's great if you want to go into medicine because you really want to improve health care and help people. So if that's what you feel, than SAY IT because it's you! Just make sure you give a convincing argument instead of giving a "one-size fits all" answer. You can say that you think you can make a difference in this hard health-care time and that you enjoy the challenge of medicine and are people/community oriented. . . blah blah . . . they want to get to know you in the interview. If you get an interview, remember that you have already made the program (pretty much). The interview is there to get to know you personally and they are looking for the "too good to be trues" and those people who prove themself a bad candidate by being pushy, soft spoken, or not taking it seriously. In the interview, they want to see that you are committed to the PA profession and its advancement. So make sure you know why not med school because MDs also help people and improve health care. And so do nurses. In my answer, I said I really liked the idea of the PA-physician team because I enjoy a team atmosphere and the schooling was considerably less so I could still start a family and proceed with my family goals that I could not do in medical school. I said that if I didn't get into the PA school, then I would take more classes and get more experience and apply to PA school again. Not go to med school. Make sure you shadow PAs and MDs so you have comparisons and can quote your real-life experiences . . . something that is uniquely you. That's all they are looking for. Someone who knows the PA profession, is smart, a team-player, and friendly, since they will be spending the next 2+ years with you. Just think of and answer as many questions as you can. Then you are prepared. They like to see that too. If you made the interview, you look good on paper already. So just be your professional self and say what you believe!

Alex in Baltimore, Maryland said: i understand that in your interview and personal statement the admissions committee doesn't want to hear that you want to help people, or work with underserved communities bc it's what everyone says and has been repeated numerous times. every resource will tell you that they don't want to hear that answer. so what do you think they want to hear? i mean isn't that the reason that people go into health care, is to help people and to work in medicine.
i'm just at a loss for words when that question is asked, why do you want to be a PA because my answer would be that i want to help people and to provide exceptional health care.

so i ask you guys who have made it into pa school how you handled that question, why do you want to be a pa?

thank you katie from penn. with your insight and help!
and pre-pa student, i thought what you wrote was great.

Hi Alex. I wanted to add a few points to Katie's comments (which were great!) I have been through a few interviews (all were one on one with the interviewer) and have been accepted to a program already! (Arcadia Uni)I am still interviewing at other schools, so my hair hasn't stopped turning gray yet ;-)

I know how nerve wrecking the interview process can be, but I took it as a challenge. Remember, you have already beaten out a handful of applicants to get that opportunity. Plus, you are interviewing the program as well! So, prepare some questions for the director and interviewers. After very interview, I was asked if I had any questions for them. Make sure you read the program's history and statistics. Maybe you might want to ask how strong the PA profession (politically)is in that current state? Each state has its own laws for how PAs work and what they can do.

My primary reason for pursuing a career as a PA is the flexibility it currently provides. I have shadowed many practicing PAs that have jumped from one specialty to another, i.e. from family practice to general surgery. Also, it seems that you can dictate how much time you want to put into your career. You can moonlight at hospitals while working at your primary job, or you can take it easy and spend time raising a family.

The funny thing was that I wanted to become a MD my whole life. My grandfather was one in England, and I have wonderful memories of how he and his patients were like family. For instance, they would come in and sit for a cup of tea while he would go over their conditions and histories. However, nowadays the medical system (managed care) doesn't provide for those types of environments. I worked as a medical assistant and saw the life of doctor's firsthand.. heard all the complaints and problems. Plus, although its a small pool, every PA I have talked with loves what they are doing and would go back and do it again!

As for working internationally, my first encounter with PAs was when I was a Peace Corps volunteer. They were our primary medical providers and were working under the umbrella of the embassy doc. They were making a US salary in a third world country, while having apartment stipends, and many other perks. How cool is that!? Their standard of living was much higher than ours and I could tell how much they enjoyed their experience.

Hope that helps.

Good luck!

Hi i am currently a freshmen attending UPJ for a bio degree... i was wondering if i could get the bio degree then go to another school to get my PA degree... i really like the college i am at now but they dont offer the PA program. No one has really been much help for me in deciding what to do about staying at my college for all 4 yrs then transferring some where else for another 2 (or how long would it be) or just transferring now... please help!!!!!!!

Most PA programs require a 4 year degree of some sort. The other ones you jump into right after high school. So finish your degree and then apply to PA schools. The PA program is set up like graduate school so you will need to send transcripts, letters of recommendation, etc, generally through a website called CASPA. Check with the schools you want to go to for preregs and entrance requirements. Most schools do not accept transfer students (ie you did a year of PA program here and want to do the other year there), but to be a PA you need a 4 year degree. I hope that helps!

i was thinking of going to Seton Hill and they do take transfer students... thanks for the help!

Where you go for your undergrad degree does not matter. Just stay where you are get your degree and fullfill all the pre-pa requirements and keep good grades, As and Bs, no Cs. Then apply to the schools you want to attend for your PA degree.

Omar Abdul-Malik, PA, MPAS in Washington, District of Columbia said: Oh Yeah, I forgot to tell you. Here's a caveat for all those who choose a PA profession. After several years of practicing, you realize that you know as much, if not more than the doctors. I've been a PA for more than 7 years. I work as an HIV/Infectious Disease specialist. I love it! I have NO desire to specialize in anything else (can't stand surgery)! I function with 95% autonomy and can even write Rx for controlled substances (e.g. Percocet, Oxycodone). All of my patient want to see me instead of the doctor. I make some house calls and my patients can contact me via cell phone. I've been a college professor for PA programs and even get paid to lecture about HIV. Now, here's the kicker. As clinically talented and knowledgeable as I feel I am (and others have told me), I can NEVER work without having a licesenced MD as my Supervisor. Further, now matter how talented and BRILLIANT a PA is he/she will NEVER be equal to even the most MEDIOCRE doctor. Lastly, we will NEVER get paid what MDs make. I'm at two non-profit clinics where I make about $95K/yr. That puts me on the high end for PA earnings. However, the MD "ONLY" makes $145K/yr. AND I ACTUALLY DO MORE WORK! Now, I don't owe $250,000.00 worth of student loans. But you've got to consider. That's not that much if you're 35 y.o. and start making an average salary of $180,000.00 (took 20K out for malpractice for an Internist)for the next 30 years. I am now finding the lack of an MD degree quite limiting in what I want to do career-wise. There are medical and pharmaceutical companies that have offered me speaking oppurtunities with sizeable fees. When I inform them I'm a PA they are shocked and regretful. I get, "WOW! You're so knowledgeable, but sorry. We only use use MDs". IN D.C., $95K is nothing.I've a stay-at-home wife home schooling our four young children. At this point in my career, I'm even contemplating applying to Medical School;

Lucas in Roanoke, Illinois said:

I found the comment by the PA who punished a patient who wanted to see the doctor or questioned their diagnosis as offensive and unprofessional. A patient always has the right to know who is examining them and may request to see the doctor if he chooses.
When I hear things like this, it makes me wonder if there isn't a tremendous ego involved here. When ego is involved, bad judgement may follow. Part of being smart is knowing when you're over your head.
I've seen a PA misdiagnose a serious back injury that ended up being septic disciitis. There comment to the patient was "it's just musculoskeletal....there's nothing I can do for you."
If your busy posturing yourself to be seen as exactly like a doctor instead of looking out for the patient, you may reach beyond the scope of your abilities.
PA's and NP's provide valuable services and but they aren't physicians. Of course there are new physicians who are inexperienced. In general though, most physicians are highly trained and competent. No matter how you slice it, they went to 4 years of premed, 4 years of medical school, and 3-5+ years of residency. The practice of medicine requires the depth and breadth of knowledge that this training provides. You can't compress it into a year or two. Alot of other medical professions are just a year or 2 shy of medical school...but they aren't medical school either. PA's should be the best PA they can be...same with NP's and anyone else in health care. There's nothing wrong with being who you are. The medical doctor; however, has and should have the ultimate control of the care of a patient.
There's a reason we spend alot of money to educate doctors. If there wasn't, we could save alot of money churning out only mid-levels.
I agree with the comment above. If you want to be a doctor...go to medical school. If you can't cut it or are looking for a shortcut, don't complain later that you don't get the same "doctor" mantle

Lola in Grand Rapids, Michigan said: You seem to be very lost. A top notch surgeon doesn't even make $ 800,000 a year. According to research. The average pay for a doctor is only that of 197,000. (Payscale.Com, Salary.com, Vault.com, etc...) And sure its only two more years than a Physicians Assistant. But remember there are residency years and a graduate would be likely to make over 35,000. I'm well aware of this as my sister is in her last year of residency right now, making literally minumum wage. So really, its more like 5-6 more years.

Im sorry your horribly misinformed. Im a nurse and work with a surgeon everyday, 15 total doctors. Alot Im very close to. And I know how much doctors make, and not just mine but many other and in many other types of practices. Doctors I work with make well over 800k. I know what the internet tells you but they are so wrong! I over heard our doctors looking to hire a radiologist, and posted it for 500k a year and decided to up their offer to 600k a year because they were not getting any offers. The internet does not put into factor alot of things, so always fall short for doctors. I know family doctors in the area who make 400k and do zero surgery. And the most Ive heard of a PA is making over 200k and that is rare. My best friend I work with is a PA. He makes around 80k a year. And pulls in revenue of about 55k a month. And my doctor who is the senior partner says the PA's help pay the other doctors who dont pull in as much revenue. So no matter what money you generate as a PA it will always go into the doctors pockets. And thats right out of the mouth of what I believe are some of the best doctors Ive ever met.

Why should a PA be making as much as an MD? They're NOT MD's. The previous comment mentioned that MD school is just 2 more years. Many other health are professionals go to school 5-7 years but that doesn't make them MD's either.
I keep hearing PA's say they're just as smart as doctors and their training is just like medical school. If that's the case, why didn't they just go to medical school? The usual reason is because they didn't want to go to school that long. In other words, they want a short cut. Sorry, it doesn't add up. Some courses of study are 15 months didactics + 12 months of clinical. This is hardly the equivalent of 4 years premed, 4 years of med school, 1 year of internship, and 3-5+ years of residency. Would you think a highly trained physician who specializes in emergency medicine is exactly the same as an ER PA? Medical school and residency is necessary to develop the depth and breadth of knowledge needed to practice medicine. Non-physicians are not practicing medicine even if they are being given alot of latitude. At the end of the day, it's the MD who is in charge.
This whole mid-level thing was started with idea of increasing access to health care, particularly for underserved areas. This didn't really happen as many chose to gravitate to cities where they can have a better standard of living and work regular hours. The only reason that MD's went along with it was that it allows them to see more patients and make more money. Why would they employ a PA that they have to pay like an MD? If PA's don't like being lower on the food chain, then go back to school and do it the right way.