Advantages of PA vs Physician

As to whether to pursue Med School or PA School...personally, I think age is a HUGE factor in your decision process. If you're in your early twenties...you've got time on your side. I'm looking at PA school because I have a BSBA, need pre-req's and I'm 37 (and have a 9 and 12 year old as well!). I don't have time for med-school or the $ to re-pay the loans! I understand that 7-8 more years of school sounds daunting, but I definitely think it will be worth it for you, in the long run. My husband was pre-med and decided to forgo med-school b/c he wanted to start working to make $ after graduation. Fortunately, he has made wise career decisions and has done very well in business; however, he frequently says, "I should've been a doctor!". As a doctor, you'll make a difference in people's lives, work in a recession-proof career and live a very nice lifestyle...for the rest of your life! I'm not saying it will be easy...but nothing worth working hard for is!! I say "go for med school" and don't look back. You NEVER get the time back.....you just get older and wiser!! And then you might hear yourself saying, "I should've been a doctor"! LOL! Good luck!!!!!!!!!!

Katie in Waynesboro, Pennsylvania - I am applying to EVMS to start in 2010, and would love to get your opinion on the application/interview process. I'm getting all my application requirements in order right now, and the nervousness has started to set in. If I could contact you by email to chat, or you can get me at shanti.stgeorge@gmail.com, that would be great. Thanks!

i personally wanted to go to med sch but due to family set backs and loss of my mom i am at a point where i know i am not emotionally ready for long daunting years of studying. i have manage to keep my grades up thus far, i have a good gpa. i still have the dreams of helping others this is why i still want to be in the health profession. therefore i have decided to be a PA. I know i will not regret this, i will comfortable and i will be able to assist my family earlier than i expected. if you love helping people then it doesnt matter what chain of the ladder your on, just never stop working and helping people, thats the reason why you got into the profession.

also im applying to PA school in the city stony brook, nyit and albany medical college. i don't know that much about nyit..is it a good pa program. i am currently getting my bs so therefore i will be applying to their masters program.

Sue Nichter in Buffalo, New York said: I've been a PA for 7 yrs now after being a nurse for 18 yrs and believe one major advantage to being a PA is you always have backup from the supervising physician if needed.

I found what you said really interesting, because I've been a nurse for 9 years. I'm getting my BSN right now and had planned on getting my MSN. But I'm considering a PA. The amount of time it takes to get the degree doesn't seem much longer.

i was also confused, so i decided to shadow a few md and a few pas. i was surprised to how many mds actually asked me " have u ever thought about taking a different route such as a pa or np?", when i asked them why they all gave me a similar answer, saying that they love what they do but wish they had spend more time with their family. one doctor said he hates all his friends becasue they are all other doctors who are tired of their hectic lives, so all they do is play golf and complain about their carreer choice. i also plan on getting married in a few years, and i dont want to miss out on seeing my kids grow up, and spending time with my then wife. i made up my mind when i shadowed a pa who worked 9 to 5 and then coached his sons soccer team. he had everything that i planed to have in my life, patients who respect him, decent salary, and a great family. he told me not to worry about money, because he makes 89K a year and his wife makes 60k as a proffessor, so they are well off and have a great relationship eith their kids. a doctors salary will never be worth as much as family time with two incomes.

Hi Guys!

I am a medical recruiter in Manhattan looking for some PA's to fill a few positions I have available! If any of you PA's are looking for a job in either downtown Manhattan or Brooklyn I would love to hear from you ASAP! If you could email a copy of your resume I would love to hear from you!! My email is awalker@bayviewconsulting.net. I hope to hear from you guys soon!

Best,
Ashley

Susie in Phoenix, Arizona said: As to whether to pursue Med School or PA School...personally, I think age is a HUGE factor in your decision process. If you're in your early twenties...you've got time on your side. I'm looking at PA school because I have a BSBA, need pre-req's and I'm 37 (and have a 9 and 12 year old as well!). I don't have time for med-school or the $ to re-pay the loans! I understand that 7-8 more years of school sounds daunting, but I definitely think it will be worth it for you, in the long run. My husband was pre-med and decided to forgo med-school b/c he wanted to start working to make $ after graduation. Fortunately, he has made wise career decisions and has done very well in business; however, he frequently says, "I should've been a doctor!". As a doctor, you'll make a difference in people's lives, work in a recession-proof career and live a very nice lifestyle...for the rest of your life! I'm not saying it will be easy...but nothing worth working hard for is!! I say "go for med school" and don't look back. You NEVER get the time back.....you just get older and wiser!! And then you might hear yourself saying, "I should've been a doctor"! LOL! Good luck!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Suzie, I am glad to see that I am not the only the older person considering a PA or MD career change. I am 38, married, with a 10 and 7 year old. I will be completing a PhD degree in public health next year. However, I'd like to take care of patients and also do research. I am getting mixed advice on PA or MD. The short time for the PA is attractive given my age. However, I am not sure that I will be competitive for research grants without the MD, plus the idea of not having 100% autonomy is a drawback, although I can probably adapt. If I go for the MD, I would be completing residency at age 47. At the same time, I don't want to decide to go for the MD after being dissatisfied with the PA. Any advice from MDs and PA's is greatly appreciated.

I'm so glad I found this forum although it has given me more doubts about what I want to do. Are there any programs that exist to continue from a master to a PhD as a PA? I think PA school makes a lot of sense for the reasons that people have listed; flexibility, more than livable wage, less time consuming to finish school. I don't want to get to a point where I feel limited, I'd like to be able to take multiple paths with my career such as clinical work, but also teaching or research. Can anyone give me more perspective on the Nurse Practitioner route? Someone said something about the PhD in Nursing too, but I thought that was more research oriented than applied, does anyone know? I know I'm getting off topic about the PA vs. Physician, but I have had my Bachelor degree for nearly 3 years thinking long and hard about how I want to further my education (notice I didn't say if). I've narrowed it down to Physician (DO), PA, or Nurse. I feel that PA would be great, but I have "problems with authority" at times and am a very independent person. My Mother and brother are Nurses; my Mom owns a retirement home and my brother suggests the PA route for me. My Mom's business is a consideration too if I took over in the future, a PA wouldn't necessarily benefit me as an Administrator in a retirement home unless I found a Dr. to come on board with me....is that correct?
To what extent can you be independent as a PA?
Whoever answers me, thank you so much!!!

Confused in Torrance, California said: I have a choice between Yale PA and Northeastern PA program in Boston.

Which is better? What are the perks to the two of those? Which would you choose? I need help! Please!

If you're going on reputation alone, definitely choose Yale.

CC in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania said: I'm so glad I found this forum although it has given me more doubts about what I want to do. Are there any programs that exist to continue from a master to a PhD as a PA? I think PA school makes a lot of sense for the reasons that people have listed; flexibility, more than livable wage, less time consuming to finish school. I don't want to get to a point where I feel limited, I'd like to be able to take multiple paths with my career such as clinical work, but also teaching or research. Can anyone give me more perspective on the Nurse Practitioner route? Someone said something about the PhD in Nursing too, but I thought that was more research oriented than applied, does anyone know? I know I'm getting off topic about the PA vs. Physician, but I have had my Bachelor degree for nearly 3 years thinking long and hard about how I want to further my education (notice I didn't say if). I've narrowed it down to Physician (DO), PA, or Nurse. I feel that PA would be great, but I have "problems with authority" at times and am a very independent person. My Mother and brother are Nurses; my Mom owns a retirement home and my brother suggests the PA route for me. My Mom's business is a consideration too if I took over in the future, a PA wouldn't necessarily benefit me as an Administrator in a retirement home unless I found a Dr. to come on board with me....is that correct?
To what extent can you be independent as a PA?
Whoever answers me, thank you so much!!!

I don't think there are any doctorate degrees in PA. However, you can do a PhD in most areas, although some may require some prerequisites. For example, you could do a PhD in leadership if you want skills to run the retirement home.

Hi,
Do PA's have to do a residency?

Carolyn in Wilton, New Hampshire said: Im in my last year of PA school. This is why I chose PA over med school.

as a PA you can change specialty whenever you want without having to go back to school. Dr's can't do that. They can't change their specialty without going through another multiple year residency program. If a PA wants to do surgery for a few years, and then switch to dermatology they have the complete freedom to do that.

I also chose to be a PA because of the lenght of schooling. it is 8 years to graduate from med school, and then you have 3-5 years or more of residency. Most doctors who start right out of high school wont get their first job until their mid 30's. it's 6 years to be a PA, and no residency involved. if you already have a bachelors degree, its only 2 years.

The time spent working was another factor for me. The dr's ive been with never truly have a day off. theyre always working. I want to have a life other than just working.

lastly, if i was a guy, i probably would have gone to medical school. I want to get married/have kids one day. I'm not going to spend a huge amount of money and time to be a doctor when I really cant be a full time mother and a full time doctor at the same time. I don't want to have kids and not be able to remain committed to a career.

i hope this helps!

lilaznsurfer in Los Angeles, California said: OMG I am so glad to have run across your blurb. I am deciding whether to get my masters in medical medicine (it will lead me to the PA) or to get my doctorate's.

1. I am not very good with authority. I like to run by my own schedule and I don't like to have people question me.
2. People do not respect PAs as much as they do doctors.

So that said, I am 25 and need to make a decision soon. Yale's PA program is only 2 1/2 years whereas med school is another 4. I need to make money now *(don't get me wrong because I love the medicial field and dealing with patients) but I've taken all this time to get my bachelor's and then travel the world and now I am broke and need to start my career. Do you really suggest being an MD if time is ticking and I have a family to take care of. I mean, it seems like we have the same dilemma. PA vs. MD. Which is going to be more beneficial and more convenient for me in the long run? Where will I get more satisfaction?

It sounds like you don't really want to put the effort into going into medicine. Getting into med school isn't a slam dunk. You have to have all the required premed level prerequesites and do extremely well in them, do well on MCAT, interviews, etc. (We lost half our premed class in inorganic and organic chemistry.) It takes more than brains...it takes brains and drive.
If you don't like taking orders from others, that would worry me as you might be less likely to ask for help when you're over your head. If you do something other than medicine (M.D., D.O.), you're not going to call the shots, nor should you. If you're looking for school that is easier and shorter, less responsibility, no call, great hours, then you aren't a candidate for med school anyway.
Just be good at what you do and accept your whatever profession you choose for what it is .....and what it isn't.

Oldie in Lansdowne, Pennsylvania said: I don't think there are any doctorate degrees in PA. However, you can do a PhD in most areas, although some may require some prerequisites. For example, you could do a PhD in leadership if you want skills to run the retirement home.

I am a Biology Teacher, with M.S. in education. I considered PA school, but I decided to become a Nurse Practitioner. The main reason I choose this route is because, I will not need to work under the doctors supervision. As a Nurse Practitioner you can practice independently. Also, there are several high paying specialties that you have as a nurse. i.e. CRNA. Also you can get a DNP (Doctorate of Nurse Practitioner). Why limit yourself. The good thing about PA school is you are trained in a model very similar to medical school. The bottom line is do what's best for you and your situation.

I also fought with the decision of MD vs PA. I had thyroid cancer when I was 8 years old and wanted to be a doctor from that point on. Sadly my mother passed away from leukemia when I was 22 years old. I have changed a lot and don't have the confidence and drive I used to, I struggled a lot dealing with her passing. I know what it is like to be on both sides of the fence, I have had cancer and lost someone very close to me. I don't care about the money, I just love medicine and want to help people. I just can't decide which is best for me. I do want to have a family soon so PA is looking better and better BUT then I think maybe I am just giving up and settling. I am so confused. If some of my PA credits would transfer to MD I woulnd't hesitate because I could practice for a while, get my confidence and go be a doctor but I have heard they do not transfer. Looking for advice...please help!! Thanks

kim in Albany, New York said: i personally wanted to go to med sch but due to family set backs and loss of my mom i am at a point where i know i am not emotionally ready for long daunting years of studying. i have manage to keep my grades up thus far, i have a good gpa. i still have the dreams of helping others this is why i still want to be in the health profession. therefore i have decided to be a PA. I know i will not regret this, i will comfortable and i will be able to assist my family earlier than i expected. if you love helping people then it doesnt matter what chain of the ladder your on, just never stop working and helping people, thats the reason why you got into the profession.

also im applying to PA school in the city stony brook, nyit and albany medical college. i don't know that much about nyit..is it a good pa program. i am currently getting my bs so therefore i will be applying to their masters program.

I understand where you are coming from. I have wanted to be a doctor my whole life until I lost my mother. It is a life shattering experience and it changes you. I have also thought very strongly about becoming a PA, just scared I will be settling or regreting it later. I hope it works out for you and my heart goes out to you for the loss of your mother. Good luck!!!

The idea of bridge education a total phoney. How about all the other health care professionals who take difficult courses. Nothing worth doing is easy and it seems alot of people are looking for the easy way. If you have all your prereqs for medical school, then apply to med school and start on day 1 of year 1. We can't dilute medical education because people don't want to do the work. If you think other health care professionals think you're doctor wannabe's now, just wait till you get a phoney MD degree.

Oldie in Lansdowne, Pennsylvania said: I don't think there are any doctorate degrees in PA. However, you can do a PhD in most areas, although some may require some prerequisites. For example, you could do a PhD in leadership if you want skills to run the retirement home.

Yes there are doctorate degrees for PAs, just do some research if that is the way you want to go

Lucas in Roanoke, Illinois said:

I feel your pain.
After a reasonable time in the field, you realize that your salary can't get any better. If they pay you more they might as well hire a MD.
Don't get me wrong, I don't regret doing what i am doing, but i do tend to counsel college students to really think about going to med school. The career is longer lasting. After 10 years plus, you may hit your max. and actually find yourself without a job, if you are too qualified.(a new grad will make less)
The only benefit, is to change fields, so that at least you will be stimulated in what you are doing, and not focusing on the salary. I have done surgery, cardiology, internal medicine, geriatrics and thinking about going into education.

glendon in Springfield Gardens, New York said: well i am 18 years old and will be enntering a PA program at St Johns University. The program is 4 years straight and I will be a PA at age 22. I was wondering after i graduate can my credits transfer over and lessen my years of medical school?

No, you must apply like any other college grad.
Good Luck

I am nervous about being interviewed for a PA program and want to be thoroughly prepared. Of those of you who have been interviewed or know someone who was interviewed, what were some of the most common questions I can expect, and also, what were the most challenging questions you were asked? What is the best way to prepare for the interview process? Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated :)

glendon in Springfield Gardens, New York said: well i am 18 years old and will be enntering a PA program at St Johns University. The program is 4 years straight and I will be a PA at age 22. I was wondering after i graduate can my credits transfer over and lessen my years of medical school?

what was your GPA?? i want to apply o a pa program, but i didnt take microbiology. i was thinking of the hralem hospital program, but i know its really competitive. what do you think?? also who did you get recommendations from? your advice would really help me!!
thanks

Ty in Frostburg, Maryland said: Hi Alex. I wanted to add a few points to Katie's comments (which were great!) I have been through a few interviews (all were one on one with the interviewer) and have been accepted to a program already! (Arcadia Uni)I am still interviewing at other schools, so my hair hasn't stopped turning gray yet ;-)

I know how nerve wrecking the interview process can be, but I took it as a challenge. Remember, you have already beaten out a handful of applicants to get that opportunity. Plus, you are interviewing the program as well! So, prepare some questions for the director and interviewers. After very interview, I was asked if I had any questions for them. Make sure you read the program's history and statistics. Maybe you might want to ask how strong the PA profession (politically)is in that current state? Each state has its own laws for how PAs work and what they can do.

can you tell me what was your gpa?? im applying to pa programs now. anything you have to tell me would be great!!
thanks

drew1425 in nyc, New York said: can you tell me what was your gpa?? im applying to pa programs now. anything you have to tell me would be great!!
thanks

Hi Drew. My GPA was 3.5 overall and 3.25 in the sciences, but I went to a small state school, not a "big name" uni. I think past history helped me the most along with the interview. Make sure you read up on each program and research the opportunities and political strength the profession has in the state. Attrition rates, job offers, personal support networks? These are all good questions that might not be found through the Internet.
Good Luck!

What's the point of a PA doctoral degree? No one is going to call you "doctor" in a hospital or other clinical setting and it's misleading. It's important for a patient to know who is a physician and who is not. If you're going to go to school long enough to get a PhD, why is it that you don't want to go to medical school?

Ty in Frostburg, Maryland said: Hi Drew. My GPA was 3.5 overall and 3.25 in the sciences, but I went to a small state school, not a "big name" uni. I think past history helped me the most along with the interview. Make sure you read up on each program and research the opportunities and political strength the profession has in the state. Attrition rates, job offers, personal support networks? These are all good questions that might not be found through the Internet.
Good Luck!

thanks alot!!! im thinking of st.johns university. i'll keep in touch!!
Drew

Sarah in Windsor, Ontario said: I am nervous about being interviewed for a PA program and want to be thoroughly prepared. Of those of you who have been interviewed or know someone who was interviewed, what were some of the most common questions I can expect, and also, what were the most challenging questions you were asked? What is the best way to prepare for the interview process? Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated :)

I remember some of the questions presented in the interview. (1) what is the role of the P.A? (2) what convinced you to consider P.A as a career? Have you ever read any article written over the profession of P.A? Where did you read that article from? What do you think the P.A profession should include to its traditional role? Do you think you will be a good P.A, how? It seems you didn't take fulltime in some of the long semesters (spring/fall), why? Do you have a family? how many kids and how old are they? what subject did you enjoy the most during your under grad studies? Do you personally know anyone or have an immediate family member who is a P.A or an MD? those are some of the questions I was asked during the interview. I majored in biology and did a lot of volunteering at the hospital. If you don't have any healthcare experiences, kindly do some volunteering. It helps your application a lot more than you could imagine.

Yung in Overland Park, Kansas said: Im sorry your horribly misinformed. Im a nurse and work with a surgeon everyday, 15 total doctors. Alot Im very close to. And I know how much doctors make, and not just mine but many other and in many other types of practices. Doctors I work with make well over 800k. I know what the internet tells you but they are so wrong! I over heard our doctors looking to hire a radiologist, and posted it for 500k a year and decided to up their offer to 600k a year because they were not getting any offers. The internet does not put into factor alot of things, so always fall short for doctors. I know family doctors in the area who make 400k and do zero surgery. And the most Ive heard of a PA is making over 200k and that is rare. My best friend I work with is a PA. He makes around 80k a year. And pulls in revenue of about 55k a month. And my doctor who is the senior partner says the PA's help pay the other doctors who dont pull in as much revenue. So no matter what money you generate as a PA it will always go into the doctors pockets. And thats right out of the mouth of what I believe are some of the best doctors Ive ever met.

Your absolutely correct! The internet GROSSLY underestimates what doctors make. However, it should be noted specialty and setting (over-head can be $$) is crucial in determining what the docs' take-home pay is. For example an internist MD making 200K/yr at a teaching hospital may have to pay his/her own malpractice insurance (30K/yr) if he/she has his own private patients in the hospital. AND there may be stipulations on how much he has to teach, can get from grants. Now, I live in Washington, DC. A successful cosmetic surgeon who sees only elite clients (great insurance or can pay out-of-pocket)can easily make close to $1 million. Quite often, their clients are foreign dignitaries, wealthy CEOs, attorneys, television personalties (famous news reporters) and the like. We have SCORES of these folks in DC.

Bryan Wood in Thorofare, New Jersey said: Hello, Im currently enrolled in a 4 year nursing school and i was thinking about transferring. If i do transfer it will be into a 6 year 3+3 PA program. Would you recommend i stay in nursing school and then after attend a 2 Year PA school to recieve my masters or should I do the joint program... I am having trouble making a decision...When you decided to go to PA school was there any pre-reqs that u needed to complete before you enetered that you did not have for your nursing degree?

NOOOO! Stay in nursing school! At least finish, then do PA.But,you can always get an MSN, then a doctorate in nursing and become a an advanced nurse practitioner (C-DANP). I've got a collegue who's an MSN, but has his own practice and HIRED two doctors to work with him. He is TOTALLY independent and can get insurance reimbursement for his services. I really enjoy being a PA (been one for 9 years). However, no matter how AWSOME a PA I may be, I'll ALWAYS be under even the most MEDIOCRE MD. ALSO, nurses are needed and desired EVERYWHERE. PAs are not. I have a nice niche as an HIV specialist and am working towards a Doctorate in Health Education. However, I've pretty much reached my income cap ($95k/yr that's from two jobs (50hrs/week) mind you)and probably have more autonomy than most PAs since I work in outpatient clinics for the underserved (NO doctor wants to be HERE full time for a mere $110K/yr). Being an RN and a PA would be a good combination, though.

PA-C in Tampa, Florida said: I've been a PA for about two years now. I absolutely love what I do and all the benefits that come with being a practitioner. However, if I had to do it again, I would definitely have gone to med school to be an MD. As I gain more experience as a PA, I become much more comfortable treating patients and I hardly ever need to consult my supervising physician anymore regarding patient's treatment plans. Even though I feel eventually I'll be comparably skilled to my supervising physician, I'll never have the same level of authority. If I am in practice for 10 years and have a great grasp on my particular field, a brand new M.D. may come out of med school or internship and automatically will have more authority than me though they may know much less. Patients are generally accepting of PAs, and it doesn't usually cause a problem, but occasionally they say they'd like to make sure the physician agrees with my diagnosis and treatment plan - frustrating. The argument that physicians can't change specialties and would have to do another residency isn't true, as I once thought. If you are a licensed physician, you are legally licensed to perform any degree of medicine. Not that you would, of course, but you can. I know several doctors who have done a family practice residency who only work in ERs, but never have done an Emergency Medicine residency. It's all in what a physician feels comfortable doing and what he or she feels they are willing to take the risk doing. But legally, they can do anything they want regardless of their board certification/eligibility. It's crazy for me to think about going back to school at this point to be an MD. There's too much expense, too much money that I would lose not being a full-time PA, and how could I ever remember organic chemistry from undergrad in order to get a good MCAT score? I am hopeful that with time I will be more accepting of my profession, but I do have these fleeting moments of regret..[/

Hi Lucas! Well stated, after 9 years as an ID specialist PA w/ a sub-specialty in HIV medicine, I have reached my salary cap ($95K/yr w/ two jobs). It's also frustrating watching someone almost young enough to be my kid (or at least a much younger sibling) make decisions with which I don't agree based on my longer time in the field which I have to follow b/c he/she has an MD. I don't want to do surgery or Peds. I am in the midst of pursuing a doctorate of Health education (DHEd). I'll either start my own non-profit health & wellness center or run an allied health-related academic program. I tell younger people (entering college) to go to medical school. Yeah it'll cost a bundle, but you'll be the MD. It can be vexing knowing that no matter how exceptional a clinician I become, I'll always be beneath even the most mediocre of physicians.I do have to say I really love what I do though.

Omar, I have found your posts very helful in this forum (and other members too!.) I am considering PA vs MD. I am a 39 y.o. married with 2 children ages 7-12. Your advice to most people is to go the MD route rather than the PA route. I know that I can handle the medical school rigor, but I feel selfish about not spending time with my family and not earning money for 8 years. At the same time, I do not want to do the PA and then wish I had done the MD. I am about to complete my PhD in public health, but I love clinical work as well. What would you do in my shoes?

You won't be earning money for only 4 years then will get paid (nominally) during residency. Have you thought about the military? They will pay for books and tuition. Might take some of the stress off of worrying about money. Just a thought. Don't do a short cut if you have the brains and drive and it's what you really want. We need more MD's...especially family practice.

Back to the issue of "practicing medicine". I doubt there are too many M.D.'s or D.O.'s who would agree that nonphysicians are practicing medicine. Kind of makes all those years of school and residency pointless. If a license is issued by the AAPA, that's not the AMA.
Of course, you can train nonphysicians to do many things but practical experience isn't a substitute for medical school.

hey i have a question? im straight out of high school with no idea what i wanna do. my chiropractor recommended i get in to health care and suggested i look in to physicians assistants lets say i go for it. should i attened college for 4 years and get my batchelors in science the go into a 2 year pa program? throught out thoes years should i be volunteering and taking up internships for experiance hours? i know im saying all of this but i have no clue is a physicians assistant worth it? and whats the best way to become one?

Pros of becoming a PA: You'll get to diagnose and treat patients and likely write scripts (depending on where you practice). You have the flexibility of moving around specialties. You'll likely have a better schedule than an MD. Schooling typically takes 6 years total (BS + MS), some schools do a combined BS/MS that you can finish in 5. Job outlook for the future looks good and the median salary is around $80,000 as far as I know. This obviously changes with geographical location, experience, etc.
On the downside...
You'll be seeing patients, but you won't be handling the most difficult cases. You'll notice that oftentimes the PAs in office settings are seeing the colds, flus, sinus infections, etc. Your role is essentially to take some of the easier cases off of the physician so that he/she can focus on more difficult cases. You'll be making less money and probably get less respect.
Both are great professions to consider and each has it's pros/cons. Ultimately it comes down to what the best fit is for you. I suggest shadowing some physicians and PAs to get a feel for the differences. PAs are not doctors, sort-of doctors, etc...they are PAs. If you can't feel proud without the MD or DO after your name, you have to think about that because you don't want to be thinking "if only" in the future.
I understand that this is a tough decision...I wanted to be an Oncologist all my life and have recently started exploring some other options (PA, NP) while in grad school. The hardest thing for me is the pride thing. Anyway, I think the best way to make a decision is to get as much experience with the different professions as you can.

Would it matter if you were to get a certificate, AA, BS or MS for PA? I will be transfering to the UC system this coming fall and the school that I will be going to has the certificate program. But how diffrent is the certificate versus the masters degree? Should I just get my Bachelors degree (chemistry) and then go and get my masters? Or should I do the certificate program after my bachelors?

Hi,
I am considering becoming a PA over an MD because of time invested. I was wondering if any PAs or MDs notice a big difference between these two professions and daily hours worked ? I have the impression (which may be completely wrong) that most PAs only work 8 hour shifts while their MD counterparts work a minimum 10 to 12 hours daily. Is this correct ?

grace in Los Angeles, California said: Would it matter if you were to get a certificate, AA, BS or MS for PA? I will be transfering to the UC system this coming fall and the school that I will be going to has the certificate program. But how diffrent is the certificate versus the masters degree? Should I just get my Bachelors degree (chemistry) and then go and get my masters? Or should I do the certificate program after my bachelors?

From everyone I've spoken to and everything I've read, you should definitely get a masters instead of a certificate program or bachelors. I think the best evidence of this is from all the job postings for PAs I've seen - all requiring masters degrees.

Mary in Grand Rapids, Michigan said: I am wondering if anyone would be willing to share their opinions on what they like the most about being a PA. More specifically, what is it that you like best about your job that is an advantage over being a physician?
Thanks!

Hopefully economic times will change, but while PA's are making better salaries than ever, there is this recent trend due to the tough economic times that Administrators and other docs are finding that they will burden you with the same workload as a doc (sometimes more) but pay you 1/3-1/5 of what they get. That's not sour grapes, but caution, as the more the role expands (from what it should be) it really increases your risk of malpractice - even the best make mistakes and even when you do not you can still be drug through the system (I have not, but I see the trend and and optimistically cautious). So, my point is they are seeing us not as "PA's" but as their "cheap doctors" and think it over clearly

Like many other professions, physician assistants are regulated at different levels. Licensing takes place at the state level according to specific laws. Certification, however, is established through a national organization, with requirements for minimal practice standards for working in any medical sector from a nursing care facility to any other medical assistant position.

Saipeople
<Edited by Host: advertisement removed>

Hello all,

I have read through all of these posts and I thank all of your for the insight that you have given me on an impending decision. I am 36, I am married with a good job and other than my house, I am debt free. However, my goal in life has always been medicine. I have pretty much wasted my time and talents elsewhere and I regret not doing what I feel as though I was born to do. I am at the crossroads and I have the decision to go back to school and completely change careers. I have always wanted to go the MD route but I have since considered PA because it will fit in better with my current situation.

With all of that being said, what can I expect with my undergrad and PA school? I am going to definitely work during undergrad but I understand that it is a near impossibility during PA school. How did some of you that decided to do this later in life handle it? I know that I am going to downsize my house because it just won't be financially feasible. Thankfully it is just my wife and I so it won't be that hard.

thanks again,

Old in Pennsylvania said: Omar, I have found your posts very helful in this forum (and other members too!.) I am considering PA vs MD. I am a 39 y.o. married with 2 children ages 7-12. Your advice to most people is to go the MD route rather than the PA route. I know that I can handle the medical school rigor, but I feel selfish about not spending time with my family and not earning money for 8 years. At the same time, I do not want to do the PA and then wish I had done the MD. I am about to complete my PhD in public health, but I love clinical work as well. What would you do in my shoes?

Omar, you there? Your thoughts are greatly appreciated...

If you've got the brains and drive and you want to practice medicine, go to med school. If you have all your prereqs, it's 4 years + 3-5 years residency (depending on your specialty). You're getting paid (albeit nominally during your residency).
The military will pay for your school if you don't mind paying back the time. Just an idea.
One thing I've noticed on this site is that people are making alot of excuses for not pursuing a medical degree (I'm too old, it's too long, family issues, etc). Everyone has hard choice in life. But, IF you really want to practice medicine, you will do what it takes. There's no easy button.

Omar Abdul-Malik, PA, MPAS in Washington, District of Columbia said: Oh Yeah, I forgot to tell you. Here's a caveat for all those who choose a PA profession. After several years of practicing, you realize that you know as much, if not more than the doctors. I've been a PA for more than 7 years. I work as an HIV/Infectious Disease specialist. I love it! I have NO desire to specialize in anything else (can't stand surgery)! I function with 95% autonomy and can even write Rx for controlled substances (e.g. Percocet, Oxycodone). All of my patient want to see me instead of the doctor. I make some house calls and my patients can contact me via cell phone. I've been a college professor for PA programs and even get paid to lecture about HIV. Now, here's the kicker. As clinically talented and knowledgeable as I feel I am (and others have told me), I can NEVER work without having a licesenced MD as my Supervisor. Further, now matter how talented and BRILLIANT a PA is he/she will NEVER be equal to even the most MEDIOCRE doctor. Lastly, we will NEVER get paid what MDs make. I'm at two non-profit clinics where I make about $95K/yr. That puts me on the high end for PA earnings. However, the MD "ONLY" makes $145K/yr. AND I ACTUALLY DO MORE WORK! Now, I don't owe $250,000.00 worth of student loans. But you've got to consider. That's not that much if you're 35 y.o. and start making an average salary of $180,000.00 (took 20K out for malpractice for an Internist)for the next 30 years. I am now finding the lack of an MD degree quite limiting in what I want to do career-wise. There are medical and pharmaceutical companies that have offered me speaking oppurtunities with sizeable fees. When I inform them I'm a PA they are shocked and regretful. I get, "WOW! You're so knowledgeable, but sorry. We only use use MDs". IN D.C., $95K is nothing.I've a stay-at-home wife home schooling our four young children. At this point in my career, I'm even contemplating applying to Medical School;

This is a great discussion. As a senior PA student I have been called in to make clinical calls when others are at a loss. We have wonderful PA's and MD's who teach us. We start clinicals within 6 months. It is a 3 year program. A physician told me the PA's from our school intimidate them. That is never the goal but I saved two people already. Both were calls missed in the ER. Both doctors were very gratefull. I am fresh now and the calls came easily.
I hope some of you know the history of the PA. (those who go by titles read on) PA's came out of the Vietnam War. Medics came back with surgery skills and the ability to perform chest tubes, needle decompressions etc. PA were used in rural and inner cities for a long time.
I work with PA's who are good and bad, and doctors who are good and bad. This is the case everywhere. A common theory story told by those not in the medical field is that PA's lack skills or could not hack it, or lacked stick-to-it-ive-ness, or mental acumen. Many PA's I have worked with are Green Berets and Navy SEALS - people who don't go by titles but by the ablity to know to clindamycin over amox for tooth infections, or my fellow students who know better than to use MOXIFLOXACIN FOR UTI, AS MY FATHER WAS PRESCRIBED BY THE M.D. I spoke with the doc and filled him in on the information - because it is all about the patient and not the title - right?
Still hung up on the title? Look for another job.
Also you will hear when a PA missed a diagnosis. News flash - happens all the time to all hcp's. Doctors will tell you there are 800,000 iatrogenic (doctor caused) deaths per year. But when a PA misses a dx it is chalked up to less time in school. We have experienced students of all backgrounds. Some have actually worked before outside of medicine - not just born into it. What do you think of the young md who wanted to perform a sextuple cabg on an 89 year old man last week? Still going with the title?

Lucas in Cleveland, Ohio said: If you've got the brains and drive and you want to practice medicine, go to med school. If you have all your prereqs, it's 4 years + 3-5 years residency (depending on your specialty). You're getting paid (albeit nominally during your residency).
The military will pay for your school if you don't mind paying back the time. Just an idea.
One thing I've noticed on this site is that people are making alot of excuses for not pursuing a medical degree (I'm too old, it's too long, family issues, etc). Everyone has hard choice in life. But, IF you really want to practice medicine, you will do what it takes. There's no easy button.

PA school is not an easy button. Please do rounds with a Special Operations PA. Again do you know your pharmacology, do you have good differential diagnoses? Are you out for the patient? Or respect? MD holders loose licenses all the time, so do PA's and nurses. Some docs have even been caught watering down chemo! Do you still respect the degree though? They never made and excuse for their behavior. I have done surgeries as a PA student that most MD's will never do. My board certified buddy from cleveland clinic is hiring me over all the doctors he has to choose from. We are working on a new device right now and we have solid investors and engineers. I have done more live tissue intubations that most MDs. I have good friends who went to med school in their 20's who droped out of practice within 5 years.
Just look for me when you are sick I will make sure you get correct treatment no matter what.

Classes and procedures done as a PA student
Advanced Clinical Skills
Applied Therapeutics I
Applied Therapeutics II
Cardiovascular Diseases
Clinical Diagnostic Procedures Lab
Clinical Diagnostic Procedure
Clinical Nutrition
Clinical Problem Solving I
Clinical Problem Solving II
Dermatology
Diagnostic Imaging
Gastrointestinal Diseases
History Taking
Intro to Clinical Practice I
Intro to Clinical Practice II
Pharmacology
Neuro/Hematology/Oncology
Obstetrics and Gynecology
Orthopedics (PAST-603-01)
Pathophysiology
Public Health and Comm Med
Pulmonary&Infectious Diseases
Renal/Genitourinary Diseases
Surgery
Plus 8 more classes this semester.

O.R. / E.R. Procedures:
-TLIF - broke off spinous processes - retracted spinal cord(as a student!)
-Proximal humeral arthroplasty - reattached tuberosities to prosthesis
-Sphincterotomy + fissurectomy
-Incision and drainage of cyst
-Suturing - both hand and instrument ties - surgery and ER
-Stapling
-Gluing
-Colostomy takedown (no more bag for the pt!)
-Indirect inguinal hernia repair
-Umbilical hernia repair - laproscopy
Gyn/OB
Injections, I.M., I.V.
Blood draws

Diagnoses:
-Emesis secondary to concussion - missed by all but me on physical exam. Pt did not know about massive hematoma on back of skull
-Ludwig's angina! my best call to date
-Simple arrythmias by pulse, verified by 12 lead EKG
-Various murmurs mostly 2/6 systolic
-Brain cancer... GBM
-Non ST elevation MI (heart attack w/o EKG findings)
-Cardiac Ischemia (nurse friend of mine, obese female NIDDM, presenting in church to me with emesis and vague numbness - heart attack until proven otherwise). Stented next day. \
-Please do not listen to the "lack of drive" comments made by people who do not understand medicine at our level. They are unhappy people at best.

D in Four States, West Virginia said: Classes and procedures done as a PA student
Advanced Clinical Skills
Applied Therapeutics I
Applied Therapeutics II
Cardiovascular Diseases
Clinical Diagnostic Procedures Lab
Clinical Diagnostic Procedure
Clinical Nutrition
Clinical Problem Solving I
Clinical Problem Solving II
Dermatology
Diagnostic Imaging
Gastrointestinal Diseases
History Taking
Intro to Clinical Practice I
Intro to Clinical Practice II
Pharmacology
Neuro/Hematology/Oncology
Obstetrics and Gynecology
Orthopedics (PAST-603-01)
Pathophysiology
Public Health and Comm Med
Pulmonary&Infectious Diseases
Renal/Genitourinary Diseases
Surgery
Plus 8 more classes this semester.

O.R. / E.R. Procedures:
-TLIF - broke off spinous processes - retracted spinal cord(as a student!)
-Proximal humeral arthroplasty - reattached tuberosities to prosthesis
-Sphincterotomy + fissurectomy
-Incision and drainage of cyst
-Suturing - both hand and instrument ties - surgery and ER
-Stapling
-Gluing
-Colostomy takedown (no more bag for the pt!)
-Indirect inguinal hernia repair
-Umbilical hernia repair - laproscopy
Gyn/OB
Injections, I.M., I.V.
Blood draws

Diagnoses:
-Emesis secondary to concussion - missed by all but me on physical exam. Pt did not know about massive hematoma on back of skull
-Ludwig's angina! my best call to date
-Simple arrythmias by pulse, verified by 12 leoven otherwise). Stente

What PA are u in? I am in my 2nd semester of college, looking to gain experience to get accpeted to a Program...

jezel, shoot me your e-mail

If my family needs medical care for a serious problem, I will go to one of my colleagues whom I know is competent in that area...and will have attended med school No no one said that other professions are "easy", they're just not the same. It doesn't mean other health professionals aren't smart, but they chose the course they chose. In order to protect patients, there has to be a minimum of requirements. That's why PA' are supposed to be supervised. Of course, we know that's a joke.
If PA's were happy with their profession, why are they trying to slide into year 3 or 4 of medical school and get an easy MD degree? Of course, not all MD's are competent or ethical. I'm simply saying there isn't a substitute for medical school. Most experiences physicians are highly competent.