Is it really hard to land a job as Surgical Assistant if you don't have a PA or RN degree?

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H-T- in Miami, Florida

90 months ago

I was thinking about going for a CSA, but it does appear that the job prospects are better for PAs and RNs. Why don't Foreign Medical Graduates from WHO-recognized med schools look into doing a residency in the US, taking the USMLEs and becoming licensed physicians here. There are plenty foreign docs practicing in the US.

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OR2dox in Scottsdale, Arizona

90 months ago

H-T- in Miami, Florida said: I was thinking about going for a CSA, but it does appear that the job prospects are better for PAs and RNs. Why don't Foreign Medical Graduates from WHO-recognized med schools look into doing a residency in the US, taking the USMLEs and becoming licensed physicians here. There are plenty foreign docs practicing in the US.

I can answer that, It takes too long before getting into a US residency programs. These FMG's (Foreign Medical Graduates) are competing with newly graduate US medical students, while some of them are already into private practice in their own coutries, a lot of them have families too to take care. One job that is promising for them is surgical assisting, one that they know a lot compared to getting other jobs like researchers, phlebotomists, hemodialysis technicians or a realtor for that matter. They got to earn too like anyone else.

Some of them are lucky to pass the USMLE but for those who don't, this is a good fallback... this is both a stepping stone or a back-up in case things don't go wellas planned.

Safety of the patient in surgery is a factor that should be emphasized here and I do believe that with a "wingman" with medical/surgical experience I guess it does make a lot of difference.

After all, a surgical first assist should be a doctor in the first place...ideally. As defined by the American College of Surgeons but whose going to take that position if you are a LICENSED doctor in practice?.... IMHO.

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OR2dox in Scottsdale, Arizona

90 months ago

One more thing, while there's a "brain drain" going on in their native country, there's an abundance of overly qualified Foreign Medical Graduates in the US that cannot get into Medical practice because of strict measures and standards. They all recognize that fact and they honor the system, but as I've said, they emigrated here, some with families in-tow... And like anyone else, one has to have the basic necessities of life, that is food clothing and shelter. Without work this is impossible to attain.

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Robert in Riverview, Florida

83 months ago

H-T- in Miami, Florida said: I was thinking about going for a CSA, but it does appear that the job prospects are better for PAs and RNs. Why don't Foreign Medical Graduates from WHO-recognized med schools look into doing a residency in the US, taking the USMLEs and becoming licensed physicians here. There are plenty foreign docs practicing in the US.

Dont bother Miami has the bigest Surgical Assistants scams in the U.S and Hospitals allow this because unlicensed foreign medical grads do it for cheap and the groups they work for use loop holes in the billing systems to make money. That is the truth it is not like this in other states like NY, PA, if you want a job become a P.A, your chances will be better.A while back foreign medical grads were alloud to take a P.A exxam if they passed it they would get a P.A License or ceritificate however this was only good in the state of Fla. I hope this helps

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H-T- in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

83 months ago

Thanks for your advice, Robert. It looks more likely that I'm going to take the PA route at this point.

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syed haseeb in Naperville, Illinois

82 months ago

As a foreign medical graduate and great deal of experience, I have been working as a surgical assistant and the regretting thing is the PAs are definitely underqaulified for this job and why are'nt we given these same privalages and salaries. `i am sure we will be of greater help. As a union why dont we fight for such rights in the congresss if some people have the strings and work for our position.

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OR2dox in Scottsdale, Arizona

82 months ago

syed haseeb in Naperville, Illinois said: As a foreign medical graduate and great deal of experience, I have been working as a surgical assistant and the regretting thing is the PAs are definitely underqaulified for this job and why are'nt we given these same privalages and salaries. `i am sure we will be of greater help. As a union why dont we fight for such rights in the congresss if some people have the strings and work for our position.

I would just like to add that being foreign medical graduates, there's not much difference with regards to the textbooks and references being used by surgeons here in the US. We share the same... protocols are the same... maybe "technology" might be a little wayward but thats what CME's and Conventions are for... If you're a foreign medical graduate with 10 years of experience as an Orthopedic surgeon or TCVS or Neurosurg under your belt then suddenly find your way to emigrate here in the US and be tagged as "underqualified"... for me is an understatement.

Doing surgery that can be done in 15-30mins instead of 1-2hrs spells the difference...

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syed haseeb in Naperville, Illinois

82 months ago

I wanted to know whether we, as surgical assistant, can get the same or better privilages as PAs and do a better financially.

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syed haseeb in Apopka, Florida

82 months ago

Privilages to round, prescribe meds under the physician you work under and get payments from medicare and medicaid as they do so. this way we will definitely be hired by the physicians without any quams over the PAs. they have a lobby.

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H-T- in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

82 months ago

syed haseeb in Apopka, Florida said: Privilages to round, prescribe meds under the physician you work under and get payments from medicare and medicaid as they do so. this way we will definitely be hired by the physicians without any quams over the PAs. they have a lobby.

Thank you for the clarification. Surgical Physician Assistants and Non-Physician Surgical Assistants are two rather different job classifications. The Surgical Physician Assistant is a mid-level health care provider. The Non-Physician Surgical Assistant is an allied health care professional. Mid-level health care providers (PAs, NPs) are permitted to diagnose, prescribe and administer treatment (not in all cases). Allied health care professionals (CSAs, RCISs, Sonographers, EMTs) generally assist in administering a specific diagnostic procedure or treatment, but they do not make diagnoses or prescribe treatments. Perhaps the exception is for first responders (paramedics) who may need to diagnose emergencies and administer proper medications.

Based upon what I've researched, I do not believe that the authority to order tests, diagnose, and prescribe meds will be given to non-physician surgical assistants.

I don't know if non-physician assistants will ever qualify for payments under medicare/medicaid.

Hope this helps.

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H-T- in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

82 months ago

OR2dox in Scottsdale, Arizona said: I would just like to add that being foreign medical graduates, there's not much difference with regards to the textbooks and references being used by surgeons here in the US. We share the same... protocols are the same... maybe "technology" might be a little wayward but thats what CME's and Conventions are for... If you're a foreign medical graduate with 10 years of experience as an Orthopedic surgeon or TCVS or Neurosurg under your belt then suddenly find your way to emigrate here in the US and be tagged as "underqualified"... for me is an understatement.

Doing surgery that can be done in 15-30mins instead of 1-2hrs spells the difference...

I found this article which sounds interesting. Your thoughts?

"The USMLE exam requires a specific way of thinking; an intelligent, concise, and more importantly ‘clinical’. American medical students study medicine that way in their medical schools, so they automatically graduate with minds that we can call: “American Medical Minds”. On the contrary, the majority of the FMGs applying to the USMLE come from developing countries (statistics) whose medical schools lack of any sort of appropriate, or sufficient way of teaching. The lecturers are way too narrow-minded; there are only very few, or no modern equipments available for the student; there are ‘too’ many medical students that sometimes a single grade includes over 900 to 1000 students, and a single practical section may include over 80 students."

Source: usmle.egmedicine.com/fmgs-vs-amgs.html

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OR2dox in Scottsdale, Arizona

82 months ago

H-T- in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic said: I found this article which sounds interesting. Your thoughts?

"The USMLE exam requires a specific way of thinking; an intelligent, concise, and more importantly ‘clinical’. American medical students study medicine that way in their medical schools, so they automatically graduate with minds that we can call: “American Medical Minds”. On the contrary, the majority of the FMGs applying to the USMLE come from developing countries (statistics) whose medical schools lack of any sort of appropriate, or sufficient way of teaching. The lecturers are way too narrow-minded; there are only very few, or no modern equipments available for the student; there are ‘too’ many medical students that sometimes a single grade includes over 900 to 1000 students, and a single practical section may include over 80 students."

Source: usmle.egmedicine.com/fmgs-vs-amgs.html

That is most probably true IF a foreign-medical graduate is planning to be a LICENSED doctor here in the US... They have to overcome all these hurdles just like any student of medicine does...

As a point of clarification, I'm referring to foreign medical graduates/foreign-trained physician or surgeon/Immigrant doctors who PLANS to be or is very much eager to be an allied healthcare worker here in the US as their second career. Have PASSED the certifiying examinations given by recognized governing bodies and are now DULY CERTIFIED Surgical Assistant and yet could not find a job...

Whether they are planning to take the USMLE/have taken the USMLE/failed the USMLE/or already passed the USMLE but could not land a residency training program/ just waiting for their residency match... I guess its their prerogative not ours...

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monicarivera in Orlando, Florida

82 months ago

is any one up right now?

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syed haseeb in Naperville, Illinois

82 months ago

Yes, if you dont have the experience. the jobs are getting to be very low paying like 65 to 70k. It used to be 80 90k. So if billing is possible with medicare and medicaid it will make a lot of difference.

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syed haseeb in Naperville, Illinois

82 months ago

Where were you before and what was your billing amts. Was it good or were you salaried by hospitals

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monica rivera in Orlando, Florida

82 months ago

I WAS IN MD AND I WAS WORKING FOR A CENTER INDEPENDENTLY THE MONEY WAS GREAT BILLING FOR MYSELF BUT I HAD TO MOVE TO FL THAT IS WHY I HAVE TO START OVER HUNTING.

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jkp in Oviedo, Florida

82 months ago

monica rivera in Orlando, Florida said: I WAS IN MD AND I WAS WORKING FOR A CENTER INDEPENDENTLY THE MONEY WAS GREAT BILLING FOR MYSELF BUT I HAD TO MOVE TO FL THAT IS WHY I HAVE TO START OVER HUNTING.

i AM IN ORLANDO, FL too looking for SA indeendent practice.

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monica rivera in Orlando, Florida

82 months ago

thanks for the responed .lets keep in touch .if i found anything i will let you know.

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wilson tan in Cudahy, Wisconsin

82 months ago

Robert in Riverview, Florida said: Dont bother Miami has the bigest Surgical Assistants scams in the U.S and Hospitals allow this because unlicensed foreign medical grads do it for cheap and the groups they work for use loop holes in the billing systems to make money. That is the truth it is not like this in other states like NY, PA, if you want a job become a P.A, your chances will be better.A while back foreign medical grads were alloud to take a P.A exxam if they passed it they would get a P.A License or ceritificate however this was only good in the state of Fla. I hope this helps

Does state of florida allow foreign medical graduate to take the physician assistant exam?

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dindo_md in Manila, Philippines

82 months ago

I'm a surgeon for 3 years here in the Philippines. I have trained in minimally-invasive surgery abroad but could not put it into practice due to financial constraints among my patients.
I took and passed the NSAA certification exams and am now a CSA.
Now that I am willing to work as an SA, can somebody give me some info on how I can work there in the US permanently? Does anyone know of hospitals willing to petition foreign MDs to work as SA's? I only have my US Tourist VISA.
Thanks.

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syed haseeb in Naperville, Illinois

81 months ago

Did'nt you get residency after passing the exams. For surgical assistant you just have to do an basic exam and it is very easy and have to get registered in the state you will be practicing. You can actually do well with billing as you can do medicare and medicaid pt too. which state are you in.

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monica rivera in Orlando, Florida

81 months ago

syed haseeb in Naperville, Illinois said: Did'nt you get residency after passing the exams. For surgical assistant you just have to do an basic exam and it is very easy and have to get registered in the state you will be practicing. You can actually do well with billing as you can do medicare and medicaid pt too. which state are you in.

what exam are you talking about ? and how do you get registered ? and where do you find a job?

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ketki in Nasik, India

81 months ago

monica rivera in Orlando, Florida said: what exam are you talking about ? and how do you get registered ? and where do you find a job?

thanks for reply
i am an img in india
idid apply but unfortunately all the replies are negative thats why i wanted to try alternate pathways.can you tell me how do i go for medicare and medicaid?

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miatalau in Atlanta, Georgia

81 months ago

What specialty did you apply and what scores do you have on the exams ? I am in the same boat like you , but don't expect to do much with this surgical assistant thing if you have never worked in USA or if you don't have any experience here.

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miatalau in Atlanta, Georgia

81 months ago

For PA you have to go to school here in USA for 2 or 3 years , I'm not sure how long it is and for surgical assistant if you have at least 2 years training in surgery as a first assistant you can take ABSA exam for certification; go to www.absa.net

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H-T- in Miami, Florida

81 months ago

ketki in Nasik, India said: iam fmg from india have cmpleted my usmle step 1,2ck ,2cs iam ecfmg certified
how can i do my pa or surgical assistants degree to get into the jobs?
how long is the course and fees?

Hi Ketki,

To become a Certified Surgical Assistant, you may first need to attend a CAAHEP accredited Surgical Assisting program. Some courses can be completed in a few months. I'm not sure about the cost. There are a few programs which offer the didactic curriculum online, but you'll need to be in the US for the labs and clinical portions of the curriculum.

If you'd like to be a PA, you'll need attend an ARC-PA accredited Physician Assistant training program. I'd recommend Master's degree program. They are generally a little over 2 years in length and cost USD$50K-75K in tuition.

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goodbye in Tennessee

81 months ago

asdfas

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olivia f in Orlando, Florida

81 months ago

monica rivera in Orlando, Florida said: what exam are you talking about ? and how do you get registered ? and where do you find a job?

Hey are u an IMG? If so have taken ur usmle?

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olivia f in Orlando, Florida

81 months ago

H-T- in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic said: Thanks for your advice, Robert. It looks more likely that I'm going to take the PA route at this point.[/QUO
Where are u located? did u graduate from DR? I did why do u want to take the PA route?

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syed haseeb in Naperville, Illinois

81 months ago

H-T- in Miami, Florida said: Hi Ketki,

To become a Certified Surgical Assistant, you may first need to attend a CAAHEP accredited Surgical Assisting program. Some courses can be completed in a few months. I'm not sure about the cost. There are a few programs which offer the didactic curriculum online, but you'll need to be in the US for the labs and clinical portions of the curriculum.

If you'd like to be a PA, you'll need attend an ARC-PA accredited Physician Assistant training program. I'd recommend Master's degree program. They are generally a little over 2 years in length and cost USD$50K-75K in tuition.

why are you trying to make your life miserable with a PA or a surg assit job. Be patient and you will get a residency anytime. There are no courses for a Certified surgical assist job. Experience as a fmg is good enough and you can contact Paul WEEks of ABSA. He is very helpful. You have to do the exam and is very simple. This is a good temp job. If yo are serious then get into billing and you can make good bucks. Good luck

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cbsurg in North Aurora, Illinois

81 months ago

syed haseeb in Naperville, Illinois said: why are you trying to make your life miserable with a PA or a surg assit job. Be patient and you will get a residency anytime. There are no courses for a Certified surgical assist job. Experience as a fmg is good enough and you can contact Paul WEEks of ABSA. He is very helpful. You have to do the exam and is very simple. This is a good temp job. If yo are serious then get into billing and you can make good bucks. Good luck

Hey Haseeb. Im in naperville 2 . RU an independent. Im looking to become an indy . any suggestions?

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syed haseeb in Naperville, Illinois

81 months ago

Are you working with someone know. What is your experience. Sure i will talk to you if you want to give me your number. I used to live in naperville but now i live in westmont

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cbsurg in North Aurora, Illinois

81 months ago

Im not working with anyone now. I have 10 + years exp.
Heavy heavy ortho. But well rounded in all services.
cbsurg@gmail.com

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syed haseeb in Naperville, Illinois

81 months ago

Nice to know that. Are you working now. I think we can meet one of these days. My name is Syed Haseeb and my email is syedhuma2002@yahoo.com. email me so i can give you phone or email your phone number

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H-T- in Miami, Florida

80 months ago

olivia f in O-town, FLA said: Where are u located? did u graduate from DR? I did why do u want to take the PA route?

Hi Olivia. No, I'm not an IMG. I'm American though. I was in the DR studying Spanish. I've never been to medical school--I want to to go to PA school. It doesn't have to about money for me.

syed hasseb in Naperville, ILLY said: why are you trying to make your life miserable with a PA or a surg assit job. Be patient and you will get a residency anytime.

LoL. I'm sure I will be very fulfilled working as a PA, but thanks. And since I didn't go to med school, my chances of getting a residency anytime soon are highly improbable.

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boxy in Atlanta, Georgia

79 months ago

does anyone know for sure what states DO NOT require to take courses when you have IMG MD degree and seeking to get a PA certification?
thx

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H-T- in Miami, Florida

79 months ago

boxy in Atlanta, Georgia said: does anyone know for sure what states DO NOT require to take courses when you have IMG MD degree and seeking to get a PA certification?
thx

Unfortunately for IMGs, the answer is "none." I know this for sure. The certifying of PA's is held on a national-level and is determined by an exam called the PANCE (Physician Assistant National Certification Exam).

"Even if you have earned a medical degree from another country, you must still graduate from an accredited PA program to take PANCE."

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boxy in Atlanta, Georgia

79 months ago

thanks. very detailed reponse.

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wilson tan in Oak Creek, Wisconsin

79 months ago

is there anybody know if arizona or las vegas use certified surgical assistant?i have 20 years of experience as CSA and an IMG

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OR2dox in Scottsdale, Arizona

79 months ago

I've been certified last March of 2009 by ABSA. its Feb 2010 now, and still no luck. I found out that the State of AZ don't accept non-PA or Non-RNFA certified surgical assistants. I'm a foreign medical graduate with 5 years orthopedic surgery experience. Now, I'm a Hemodialysis Technician for the meantime... I wish you luck!

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wilson tan in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

76 months ago

Robert in Riverview, Florida said: Dont bother Miami has the bigest Surgical Assistants scams in the U.S and Hospitals allow this because unlicensed foreign medical grads do it for cheap and the groups they work for use loop holes in the billing systems to make money. That is the truth it is not like this in other states like NY, PA, if you want a job become a P.A, your chances will be better.A while back foreign medical grads were alloud to take a P.A exxam if they passed it they would get a P.A License or ceritificate however this was only good in the state of Fla. I hope this helps

Do you know if Florida still allow foreign medical graduate to take the P.A. exam,I would appreciate any information.

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wilson tan in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

76 months ago

Is there any body out there who knows if the foreign medical graduate are allowed to take the P.A. exam.In any states,especially Florida.

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H-T- in Miami, Florida

76 months ago

wilson tan in Milwaukee, Wisconsin said: Is there any body out there who knows if the foreign medical graduate are allowed to take the P.A. exam.In any states,especially Florida.

Unfortunately, you cannot take the exam unless you to go to a 2 year PA program. This is true for every state in the USA.

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OM iin az for Ortho in Mesa, Arizona

74 months ago

wilson tan in Oak Creek, Wisconsin said: is there anybody know if arizona or las vegas use certified surgical assistant?i have 20 years of experience as CSA and an IMG

There are a couple of surgical assist services here in Phoenix, AZ. There qualified staff employs several CSA's. Google Arizona Surgical Assistants. There are at least 2 that I know of that utilize CSAs....Good Luck!

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kb in Houston, Texas

73 months ago

Robert in Riverview, Florida said: Dont bother Miami has the bigest Surgical Assistants scams in the U.S and Hospitals allow this because unlicensed foreign medical grads do it for cheap and the groups they work for use loop holes in the billing systems to make money. That is the truth it is not like this in other states like NY, PA, if you want a job become a P.A, your chances will be better.A while back foreign medical grads were alloud to take a P.A exxam if they passed it they would get a P.A License or ceritificate however this was only good in the state of Fla. I hope this helps

****ive heard there are billing loop holes in where licensed/certified FMG practicing as surgical assistants are allowed to bill for medi-caid>>some how they can bill as doctors. Not sure how true that is!

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wilson tan in Cudahy, Wisconsin

73 months ago

No,i am a surgical assistant from milwaukee for 22 years and most of our S.A. are trained surgical tech with little experience,they just got trained from the job.

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My name is Mahesh Pradhan in Denver, Colorado

71 months ago

I'm a foreign medical graduate general surgeon(10 years exp.) and appling for PA in Red Rock C.C in Denver.Still I'm waiting for interview and admission but don't know when? so if you guys have any suggestion for me to find a job or to go to school please tell me what to do? thanks.

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surgfil in Oak Park, Illinois

70 months ago

H-T- in Miami, Florida said: Unfortunately for IMGs, the answer is "none." I know this for sure. The certifying of PA's is held on a national-level and is determined by an exam called the PANCE (Physician Assistant National Certification Exam).

"Even if you have earned a medical degree from another country, you must still graduate from an accredited PA program to take PANCE."

do you think this is not absurd? an IMG is recognized as an MD and is allowed to take the US Medical Boards or the USMLE but not the PA exams? just remember this, a PA is not qualified to take a USMLE. only in the USA.....lol

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syed in Naperville, Illinois

70 months ago

This is because they do not want to give away jobs to IMGs and plus its the money issues. You have to pay a hell of alot to go through PA program. Its all about money. You and I could pass the USMLE in no time and everytime you give the test you pay $700 and thats a lot of money for the medical association. this is from a very authentic source. Thats why they keep changing the curve which also depends on the supply and demand of physicians in this country.

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surgfil in Oak Park, Illinois

70 months ago

syed haseeb in Naperville, Illinois said: As a foreign medical graduate and great deal of experience, I have been working as a surgical assistant and the regretting thing is the PAs are definitely underqaulified for this job and why are'nt we given these same privalages and salaries. `i am sure we will be of greater help. As a union why dont we fight for such rights in the congresss if some people have the strings and work for our position.

the problem with us SA's, we are not united as evidenced by the different association that represents us. i do agree that we need to unite and fight for our rights and pull some strings....

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