Boom or bust?

Are jobs in this industry on the rise? Are there any sub-sectors that are growing?

Where are the jobs? Which places have the most tool and die maker opportunities?

I don't think tool and die will be done much in the midweest. Most of the die work that is left in manufacturing is in the south.

Looking from a purely CAD Tech perspective, they're not reporting very high levels of job satisfaction or job security or good benefits. :-( But, over 11% of the T/D/M workforce is nearing retirement, so I'd imagine these things might improve over the next couple of years. Average pay is pretty decent, though.

Wanderer in Saint Louis, Missouri said: Looking from a purely CAD Tech perspective, they're not reporting very high levels of job satisfaction or job security or good benefits. :-( But, over 11% of the T/D/M workforce is nearing retirement, so I'd imagine these things might improve over the next couple of years. Average pay is pretty decent, though.

This trade in our country is almost extinct. No more new blood coming in, experienced TM changing trade due to low wages. Customers are moving away to developing countries.. No more light infront!

www.todayestore.com

toplist in Singapore, Singapore said: This trade in our country is almost extinct. No more new blood coming in, experienced TM changing trade due to low wages. Customers are moving away to developing countries.. No more light infront!

www.todayestore.com

I've been in & out of Changi many times and Singapore never really had "Tool & Die". Microfits and Methods PTE LTD, a Advanced Systems Automation Company, was as close as you could get to a Tool & Die shop, but they were never on a level as those coming out of the Detriot or New Jersey area. And the Tool & Die makers in the US is becoming extinct.

Me, just me in Orlando, Florida said: I've been in & out of Changi many times and Singapore never really had "Tool & Die". Microfits and Methods PTE LTD, a Advanced Systems Automation Company, was as close as you could get to a Tool & Die shop, but they were never on a level as those coming out of the Detriot or New Jersey area. And the Tool & Die makers in the US is becoming extinct.

Methods and Microfits had left Singapore many years ago...sigh.,,,

www.wisetool.com

I live in the south and we've been hit hard by manufacturing leaving this country just like the rest of the nation. The only new jobs are the foreign car makers that have set up facilities around, but there are far more people than jobs for them. For the most part you have to "know someone" just to get an interview there. We may be slightly better off than some other areas but things are still not good.

It is definitely a dying trade and many of my friends have found other careers instead. It is true that many are now retiring and that may save the rest of us for a while, but the future in general is bleak for tool and die. It was once a respected and valued profession but not any more. Those days are gone.

Now companies buy dies from China at pennies on the dollar compared to American tooling. The quality doesn't compare, but cheaper is better to the bean counters, you know. Most every aspect of American manufacturing is in jeopardy from cheap overseas labor now and the death of the tool and die trade is just a small part of a much larger crisis that is looming for us all.

unless you live in china or mexico do not do tool and die!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, it is a dying trade, and it's dying much faster than many would have you believe. Look beyond the articles about a supposed "shortage" and you'll find that machine shops all over the country are closing down, not due to a shortage of skilled labor, but instead due to the hopelessness of competing with foreign shops who can sell their products for less than raw materials cost in this country. We all know automotive is outsourcing, but look at the appliance industry - they're moving overseas too. Industry is either leaving this country or shutting their doors in a hurry. That trend has no hope of reversing either.

Do yourself a big favor and find something else. If you don't you'll look back one day and realize you've invested so much effort for such a short future. I've been in this trade most of my adult life and that's how I feel now. Please don't make the same mistake I did.

I'm a Tool Maker. I'll be 40 at the end of the month. My Mom and Dad opened Midstates tool and die when I was 12. Been in this business for a long time and I've NEVER seen it this bad.
I haven't worked for Dad for alot of years, but I've never seen Dad's shop in this shape. At one time he had 25 tool makers and 4 engineers... It was a good ol shop... We had so much work, material was outside the shop..Now he has his foreman and one machinist left. Nothing for them to do.
I run the tool room where I'm at and we just laid 3 guys off and lowered the hours down to 4 days. I planted my resume all OVER this country and cant get any calls..
My biggest question is; Where the hell did ALL that money go that keep giving to the auto makers???? Every time we throw money in their pockets, the next day they're shutting the doors to another plant or laying off thousands... Where the hell is it???

I dont see Tool making coming back soon.But when ever it comes back there wont be enough Tool makers to support this field because of no more apperentices.All tool makers feel bad for choosing this field and the govt not doing anything for them.The bailout are only for auto makers NOT for tool makers.
For tool makers there's no light at the end of the tunnel.

You know what? I've been saying the same thing about tool makers being scarce since I've been in the trade.... I'm very sorry I thought this way... I should've stayed a dumb ass and not learned anything and went to work for an auto maker hangin doors on the line or something for 35 dollars an hour... You know? I'm so disappointed in this country... Not even the people we work for any more know the worth of us...and theres nothing we can do about it.

I don't know what "budget" he's talking about. I mean, if you've taken the classes... (in our state) then all you have to fulfill is the hours. If you work in a true Tool and Die Shop, then you should put in 4,000 hours of work, and it should be reported to the state accordingly. 1,000 hours Mill; 1,000 hours Lathe; 1,000 hours Grinding/Finishing; And 1,000 hours on the Bench. At least thats the IDEA behind the apprentceship. (People never really did EXACTLY that, but it's how it had to be reported to the state before you got your card.)
I've found that usually after an apprentice gets his card, (If he truly has good experience...because the card don't say crap about the guys abilities,) he usually moves on. Generally the shop he apprenticed at won't move him up in pay equal to what he's worth somewhere else. I've been in this trade for 25 years and to me, your right... Sounds like somebody's blowin smoke up your ass..
Only you know what your worth to this company and know how much pull you can handle... My advice would be to go over your supervisor's head and say; "Look, I'm not trying to start any trouble or make anybody mad... Maybe my supervisor is too busy to tackle this right now...(something like that,) And just tell them that you want your journey papers. I wouldn't talk to them about money or anything at this moment... But just tell them that you've busted your ass to become a journeyman and your not sure what the problem is. It's not a matter of MONEY or BUDGET."
As far as guys saying the jobs aren't like they use to be? They are absolutely right. Years ago, shops quoted, designed, built, and ran off the product. I'm runnin out of space on this post... Watch for my next one.
Jeff Van Pelt.

this trade is done

greed ,ceo's,governments,and lack of appretiation of people in this trade is what killed it.I don't blame the chinese I blame our own bloody people who run our finacial instatutions,and our government.They only care for today,not tommrow.What a shame!So good riddens to a trade that to me was like a hobby.To bad ,shame on all of us.

www.toolanddieing.com
High-tolerance industries such as aerospace, the "green" technologies, defense are the die maker jobs staying in U.S. & Canada. Good luck

toplist in Singapore, Singapore said: This trade in our country is almost extinct. No more new blood coming in, experienced TM changing trade due to low wages. Customers are moving away to developing countries.. No more light infront!

www.todayestore.com

You're absolutely right on with this one. There really isn't anyone coming into the trade anymore, and in twenty years, guys my age will be getting prepared to retire(I'll be 43 this year) and when we go, there won't be anything left behind us.

Host said: Are jobs in this industry on the rise? Are there any sub-sectors that are growing?

Where are the jobs? Which places have the most tool and die maker opportunities?

If you want to make the big bucks and not work very hard
go to a stamping plant, a union one would be your best bet.
If your just starting out I would say go do something else.
Starting is hard and mindless work and does not pay very well,
but if you want to sweep the floor and square up blocks for
$11/Hr Tool and die is for you. It is beter then working
at Tim Hortons and once the electric car takes off you will
be able to write your own paycheck. Don't listen to these other
haters they are probly lazy asses that hang out in the washroom
all day and read the newspaper and wonder why they lost their
jobs. If your willing to work hard and put your time in there
is a future in Tool and Die, if not Tim Hortons is allways hiring

Biggest mistake of my life. 8 years of working towards a dead end. These days, you are a fool to get into this trade, even with CAD/CAM exp. Do something else.

Host said: Are jobs in this industry on the rise? Are there any sub-sectors that are growing?

Where are the jobs? Which places have the most tool and die maker opportunities?

From my experience as a Tool and Die Maker for the last 15 years, its a waste of time, its a dieing field, suggest u consider something else.

Part of the problem with the tool & die trade is we never organized a trade union to help protect us from the circumstances we are now facing.As a result many employers have divided the trade into smaller segments creating conflict amongst employees within the plants they operate.(divide & concur). Yes,I believe it is a trade under pressure
at this time but as experienced,quality toolmakers leave and there is no one being trained, now is the time that we should be trying to create a united group for the future.The only people that seem to know the skill level and knowledge required for this trade are the toolmakers themselves. Anyone else think along the same lines

Been in Tool & Die over 30yrs and yes its just about a dead trade I agree with Steve in Waterloo that we should have had a national union like the electricians IBEW or the millwrights and pipe fitters .. independant of government so we could train apprentices and look after our own pension plans and protect us from government policy that enabled companies to outsource easily . Greed will be the downfall of the North American economy .

I have been in this for too long. I learned from some very highly skilled guys.(before Wire)When I started the boss took me in his office and said kid you wont get rich but you will be comfertable. The place had about 500 employees and was a good place to work.If you were lucky enough to get in most guys stayed there.Today its closed.They were mostly in the auto industry that explains that doesnt it.You can say I've come full circle State Technical School,State Apprenticeship,and now State Unemployment insurance.RUN FROM THIS TRADE.

G in Waterbury, Connecticut said: I have been in this for too long. I learned from some very highly skilled guys.(before Wire)When I started the boss took me in his office and said kid you wont get rich but you will be comfertable. The place had about 500 employees and was a good place to work.If you were lucky enough to get in most guys stayed there.Today its closed.They were mostly in the auto industry that explains that doesnt it.You can say I've come full circle State Technical School,State Apprenticeship,and now State Unemployment insurance.RUN FROM THIS TRADE.

go to texas u will find work ,but its not home that s the way it is i miss my home but jobs r everywhere

Get into plastic injection mold design, build, and repair. Lots of jobs there now starting to come back. Know your stuff on Solidworks, Master Cam or similar and keep learning to keep up with the technology. Money is good, especially if you like OT, but you will not get rich without OT. Forty hours will get you about 50 -65K if you are good. With OT, about 30% more. You will have to really bust it and know your stuff to make 90K or above. I have done it, but is hard on the family.

Tool Man in Eau Claire, Wisconsin said: Get into plastic injection mold design, build, and repair. Lots of jobs there now starting to come back. Know your stuff on Solidworks, Master Cam or similar and keep learning to keep up with the technology. Money is good, especially if you like OT, but you will not get rich without OT. Forty hours will get you about 50 -65K if you are good. With OT, about 30% more. You will have to really bust it and know your stuff to make 90K or above. I have done it, but is hard on the family.

You will have to relocate throughout your life in order to keep your trade. Cause as soon as its cheaper to manufacture the product your making out of the country it will go out of the country. or you will have skilled forgener come on into the country and work next to you being willing to work for half the price your getting. They will lay you off and hire them men or women to take your place. A 90,000 a year wage can easily be cut in half without a back lash. Techs form india will work for half that price in this country. I'm just saying.

I started as a Tool and Die Maker in 2000, thought I was the luckiest guy I knew...actually I was...great money,job satisfaction, and RESPECT! I have two Tool and Die tickets,and a CNC Technicians Certificate. I have a great resume,skill, and attitude, but it seems like overnight that any understanding/appreciation for what we can do has gone. Agencies call offering $13.00/hr....I wish I never got into this.

K in Hamilton, Ontario said: I started as a Tool and Die Maker in 2000, thought I was the luckiest guy I knew...actually I was...great money,job satisfaction, and RESPECT! I have two Tool and Die tickets,and a CNC Technicians Certificate. I have a great resume,skill, and attitude, but it seems like overnight that any understanding/appreciation for what we can do has gone. Agencies call offering $13.00/hr....I wish I never got into this.

Sure, thats what i'm talking about. Why should I spend 5-10year learning to run a milling machine or lathe and all they want to pay me is 13.00hr. If you go to work driving a bus for your local school district they will pay you 12.50hr and there nothing to learn and you'll never be out of work cause kids always need to keep going to school.

My father was in the trade and did very well with it.I followed in his footsteps and worked in the trade as a mould maker for 17 years.With all of our work going off shore I left and took up another trade. I think it was the best move I ever made and I have not looked back. It is pretty sad what has happened with manufacturing, who is to blame Government, cheap labour or big business?

With 27 years in i was with one company 19 years before i was laided off for 7 months, jumped ship and have been working solid for 8 years 6 days a week and 90,000 plus per year. The trade has picked up considerably and hard to find good help. I was told when i was 18 this was a dying trade, and i have made 1.6 million and counting at 45. Work is returning from mexico and overseas and is looking up, cause for lack of a better word they build crapo!. So in a nutshell with all the pessimism ive heard all my life about the trade i must be one of the lucky ones because it been great for me

I am currently an apprentice and its hard to tell whats going to happen. I work in a show where the guys make good money on contract. The thing is its hard to learn and make money without putting in the time. I am afraid of wasting 10 years of my life to find out i am getting payed 20 bucks an hour.
There are guys making big bucks, but they have the experience and are just GOOD at what they do. I have seen the diffrence between a real tool maker and the ones that can't find work.
At the same time, i am one of very few tool and die apprentices in the GTA that i know of. At this point i am going to get my license and go back to school to wait it out kinda.
For someone my age in this trade, it seem pointless...its a shame it is really a wonderful trade which i do enjoy....but i have to make a living...

Hi just a quick hello from a tool & die maker in england. We have got it just as bad here! All the coments above you hear in british toolrooms all day, I'm 40 years old been in this trade from the age of 16. They keep saying we have a skills shortage but its only because the pay is not worth the responsability!

I have been a Tool and Die Maker for over 35 years and have seen many changes over the years. When I began this trade as an apprentice, so long ago, it was completely hands on work, skills that had to be physically mastered and acquired. Every aspect of building a complex tool from beginning to end was taught in stages from saw cutting steels to complex contour machining and grinding. The biggest thing that apprentices of my time looked forward to was the assembly or, mounting and then try-out. That was many tools ago. I currently manage a tool and die shop and a stamping dept. for a local manufacturer. I am involved in every aspect of this trade and I can tell you exactly where it is heading.

No longer does an apprentice have to spend years practicing and honing skills like contour grinding or accurately fitting geometrical pieces together or learning the intricacies of a particular machine, the skill of duplicating a replacement part without a drawing and finally the ability to build something as complex as a multistage progressive die without supervision or design.

That was the enticement years ago, to not only get into a trade that paid well but also to learn and develop mechanical skills that would have practical benefits in every aspect of life. The ability to fix something that is broken or to be able to tell what's wrong with something mechanical just by the sound that it makes.

These days however, much of the skill that was necessary for the Toolmaker then, has been replaced with the technology of NC and CNC machines. That’s not really a bad thing. This machining technology can be as fascinating and rewarding for the new apprentice as the learning was for the old. It’s just a very different way to learn a very rewarding occupation.

So, I really just want to say that I do not think that Tool and Die is a dying trade. It is simply evolving. Evolving into something that is very different than what it used to be but, still very worthwhile.

Interesting that you can apply to school here in Ontario to become a Tool and Doe Maker and they will have a sponsor waiting for you. Also you are given one year paid training at the sponsor.

Caterpillar closed down a planet here because the employees refused to take a 50% cut in salary and surprising enough tool and die makers were they only ones not asked to take a cut in wages.

Not sure what the future holds and it appears that if there is another down turn manufacturing here is doomed.

The Blob in Mississauga, Ontario said: Interesting that you can apply to school here in Ontario to become a Tool and Doe Maker and they will have a sponsor waiting for you. Also you are given one year paid training at the sponsor.

Caterpillar closed down a planet here because the employees refused to take a 50% cut in salary and surprising enough tool and die makers were they only ones not asked to take a cut in wages.

Not sure what the future holds and it appears that if there is another down turn manufacturing here is doomed.

I've been looking at that same program, thinking about taking it in September. I am curious as to who the sponsor is though. If they are taking on all the people who take the course, sounds like they are really building something up.

I am not sure who the sponsors are...but what I am bothered about is that the recent news that lots of machinist are losing their jobs at Caterpillar and now Air Canada is closing their plants and moving the work to El Salvador.

Really would love to be in this trade but it seems that there is a race to the bottom in wages and their is zero loyalty to the workers. Got accepted into the apprenticeship but having my doubts...

May just move to Computer programming.