Log Book Legal Question

I have a legal question about US regulations:
US regulation 395.13 (b) (3) states:
"A driver failing only to have possession of a record of duty status current on
the day of examination and the prior day, but has completed records of duty status up to
that time (previous 6 days), will be given the opportunity to make the duty status record current."
No matter how many times I read this regulation it tells me: if I get pulled over or
into a scale and my logbook isn't up to date, I must be given opportunity to make it
up to date.

J.R. HORTON in Orlando, Florida said: THATS A GOOD QUESTION MY FRIEND AND THE ANSWER IS QUITE SIMPLE.true you must have the previous 6 days current , and the day of examination must be current and if it is not its up to the investigating officer and the state you happen to be in at the time . the law your speaking of is a federal law BUT the STATE that you your in as in any state has the right to meet or exceed federal law.i other words the can give you a break or not compleatly at ther discrestion. o and one more thing , dont keep a log book record for more then six day if they find it they can charge you if it shows a violatin. now i no your going to hear a lot of truck driving lawyers disagree with what im saying but all you have to do is read the constatution of the united states it plainley states all states have the right to govern themselves and all states have the right to meet or exceed federal law. hope this answers your question. good luck. J.R.

Right on all points---good to hear someone who sounds like he knows what he's talking about. On the matter of the logbook you are right again. There is a way around subjecting yourself to a violation. Staple pages beyond the six days--it's illegal for them to tear them open (but staple them well, don't get miserly over the number of staples). Also, should DOT audit your company, which includes spot checking driver logs, they can cite you for logbook violations as far back as three years (the statute of limitations--possibly less as it is a misdemeanor). Remember, you sign that the log is true under penalty of perjury. So, if you say you left Point A at 8 am and arrived at Point B at 10 am and the distance between them is 150 miles with a speed limit of 55 mph. Well, you have sworn that you were speeding at an average speed of 75 mph and will be cited for it.

Harold Lehmann in Sarnia, Ontario said: I have a legal question about US regulations:
US regulation 395.13 (b) (3) states:
"A driver failing only to have possession of a record of duty status current on
the day of examination and the prior day, but has completed records of duty status up to
that time (previous 6 days), will be given the opportunity to make the duty status record current."
No matter how many times I read this regulation it tells me: if I get pulled over or
into a scale and my logbook isn't up to date, I must be given opportunity to make it
up to date.

Yes, you must be giving an opportunity to bring you log book current. However, the purpose of the regulation is to allow the Law Enforcement Officer to determine whether or not you are in compliance with the 11/14/70 hour requirements. If you are in compliance, he cannot put you out of service, and "officer discretion" will determine if you are issued a citation or not . If you are beyond the 11/14/70 hour rule after bringing your log current, or your last change of duty status was sometime before the previous calender date, you can expect to receive an OOS order.

And (as previously mentioned) I know of no regulation that allows enforcement officials to go back three years. Carriers are only required to maintain the original logs at the driver's home terminal for six months. After that they can be destroyed.

Under FMCSA regulation 395.1 (e):

"How does a driver comply if during a 7-day period the driver operates some days under the 100 air-mile radius exception, some days under the "non-CDL 150 air-mile radius" provision, and some days under neither?"

The driver complies with the provisions of the 100 air-mile radius exception or the non-CDL, as defined by Part 383, 150 air-mile radius provision if either of those are applicable for the entire duty period (usually one day). For example, if a driver operates within the 100 air-mile radius for part of the day and then travels outside the radius during the same duty period, the exception would not apply. The driver must remain under the conditions of the exception for the entire duty period. Compliance may vary from one duty period to the next, depending on operating circumstances. A driver operating under the 100 air-mile radius exception for one day and then outside the radius for the second day would only be required to make a RODS for the second day.

Are your 150 mile trips less than 100 "air-miles" from your home terminal?

If yes, then no logbook is required. If you exceed the 100 air-mile radius, then you need to fill out a log for the days you exceed that distance.

My company operates on the 100 air mile exception. Drivers punch a time clock in and out for the time records. The company does not believe the 60/70 hos rules apply to them under this exception. I disagree with this . They are allowing drivers to work unlimited days with no recap of hos at all. I think this is a gross violation of the law. I have read and reread the exception and no where does it state either way. I don't believe a driver of a class a 80,000 lb tractor trailer may drive after he reaches his 70th hour in eight days under any circumstances.

Where in the law does it state that logs mush be filled out in pen ? I have been looking but can't find it.

Harold Lehmann in Sarnia, Ontario said: I have a legal question about US regulations:
US regulation 395.13 (b) (3) states:
"A driver failing only to have possession of a record of duty status current on
the day of examination and the prior day, but has completed records of duty status up to
that time (previous 6 days), will be given the opportunity to make the duty status record current."
No matter how many times I read this regulation it tells me: if I get pulled over or
into a scale and my logbook isn't up to date, I must be given opportunity to make it
up to date.

regulatiions state that the logbook has to be updated up to the last change in status. the exceptions to the rules are for local deliveries, where you can log multiple stops together. otherwise you are required to keep the log book current. the scalehouse or the inspector has to give you the opportunity to update your log book so you can continue driving, instead of shutting you down for the mandatory 10 hr period.

how many hours should i drive if i am driving local only no more than 100 miles and should i fill up a log book?

there is no set limit to the hours you can work, except that you are still limited to the 70 hr rule.you do not need to fill out a log book, but if you cross any state lines in your 100 mile radius from your starting terminal point you must fill out a log book. all your stops can be consolidated, as long as you show the total hrs driving and the total hrs loading/unloading.

Whats the rules on who has to fill out log book and who doesn't. My husband drives straight truck that makes daily runs. He was recently pulled over and was written a ticket for not putting he was not working on Saturday and Sunday. I have been told by couple of drivers that he shouldn't have to keep log book. I would appreciate any information on this cause it is an expensive ticket!! Thanks!

scjlyoung in Athens, Tennessee said: Whats the rules on who has to fill out log book and who doesn't. My husband drives straight truck that makes daily runs. He was recently pulled over and was written a ticket for not putting he was not working on Saturday and Sunday. I have been told by couple of drivers that he shouldn't have to keep log book. I would appreciate any information on this cause it is an expensive ticket!! Thanks!

Drivers need to understand that everybody needs to have some kind of record of hours of service...depending on the scenario you may be exempt (from having the log book at the time of inspection) or NOT exempt.

does anyone know if you work your 70 than go on your 34 off and than during your 34 go to a meeting that you get paid for do you have to log this?

We drive a Ford 250 and pull a 14 foot trailer. We were pulled over in New Mexico and cited for no log book. My boyfriend has pulled this trailer for the last 16 yrs and has never been aware of needing a log book. GVW 13,500 lbs. Are we in violation of the law? If so where can I find information on the current laws? We are Texas residents.

Under the FMCSR's the defenition of a commercial motor vehicle is any vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,001 lbs or more and in interstate commerce (crossing into another state)logbook is/was required at the time of inspection.

When I travel from Canada into the USA I know I must comply by US regs Eg 11 Hrs On Duty Driving, My question is when I cross back into my Country Canada Do I still have to drive acording to US regs or can I drive for 13 hours now that I am on Canadian Soil I think no becouse I must have 6 days previose logs in the USA but 14 previose days in Canada How does that work does this mean I must meet Canadian & Us regs all the time so show 14 days to MTO then only 6 days to DOT

L.G.S. in London, Ontario said: When I travel from Canada into the USA I know I must comply by US regs Eg 11 Hrs On Duty Driving, My question is when I cross back into my Country Canada Do I still have to drive acording to US regs or can I drive for 13 hours now that I am on Canadian Soil I think no becouse I must have 6 days previose logs in the USA but 14 previose days in Canada How does that work does this mean I must meet Canadian & Us regs all the time so show 14 days to MTO then only 6 days to DOT

According to FMCSR Interpretations (49 CFR 395)...When you come back to the US...for you not to be in violation with US safety laws...all you need to prove is that you rested 10 hours before jumping across the border...then you can drive according to the US (unfortunately the 70 hours still apply)...some state troopers may challenge that...but you can always look up the intrepetation and call up the FMCSA state programs manager for guidance.

FMCSA can only regulate you when you are in the USA...You need to abide by Canadian regs...try to get a CVSA OOS criteria book...It helps out.

on my log book were i print my name , can i only sign it after the day is done ,i was in new york state , and got written up due to the fact i already had signed it , underneth were you print your name. canada yes u.s.a no can anyone help me ...

Legal Question to any one that can answer it.

My husband just received a ticket @ the Az border. He just got his class A licence. His Co. didn't buy a fuel trip permit, so he had to stop at the border to buy one. When they asked for his log book he inicently handed it over not knowing. Well, he had been on vacation for 2 weeks prior to that. Mind you he just got his class A lic. He wasn't aware of the (Az)7 day prior law. He was laid off because of it and now has to find another job. How many points is this on a CA lic.? would it be possible for this to be dismissed if he showed proof of his vacation period? Your opinion please.

tay1412 in barrie, Ontario said: on my log book were i print my name , can i only sign it after the day is done ,i was in new york state , and got written up due to the fact i already had signed it , underneth were you print your name. canada yes u.s.a no can anyone help me ...

Sign it after the end of the day...remember, logsheets are also legal documents in court.

1pissedoffwife in Whittier, California said: My husband just received a ticket @ the Az border. He just got his class A licence. His Co. didn't buy a fuel trip permit, so he had to stop at the border to buy one. When they asked for his log book he inicently handed it over not knowing. Well, he had been on vacation for 2 weeks prior to that. Mind you he just got his class A lic. He wasn't aware of the (Az)7 day prior law. He was laid off because of it and now has to find another job. How many points is this on a CA lic.? would it be possible for this to be dismissed if he showed proof of his vacation period? Your opinion please.

Mam, I understand your frustration. Under Federal law your husband is required to have 7 previous days and his current day in his log book at time of inspection for a total of 8. If your husband handed them a book that did not have at least six previous days properly logged he is in violation and out of service. He is only allowed an oppurtunity to make his seventh and current day current. In the future since he was on vaction he can fill one page out properly as off duty with total hours of days off. He then can simply write on the page Off Duty from 1-5-09 - whatever time he was off.

I run hotshot and will have a rider with once in a while. The rider has a class a and usually just sleeps. I log and see that I can drive 11 hours and have a duty on of 3 so up to 14hrs. According to what I also see my rider could not drive past that either as he is considered on duty. Could he be considered not on duty due to the fact he has no responsibilities and is not doing anything and then take over driving when I'm done? I guess you would call this team driving and wonder how it all works.

No he can not be off duty -- He is on duty according to FMCSR's
On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:
(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth.

Lawful or not? I was off for 3 days. Then I was dispatched and by 7pm I drove 10 and 1/2 hours and had 3 hours on duty not driving in one day. I was then assigned a load that would take 8 hours+ and 500 miles that was to deliver the next afternoon. I refused the load because I believed I would be in log trouble. How could I have legally handled that dispatch and have delivered by the next afternoon? Could anyone in my circumstances have done it legally?

The states you must have a legal log it is not a legal document until it is signed I always sign my log @ the start of the day however if you make a mistake and it is signed then you can get a fine however if it is not signed it is not a legal document and technically you should not get a ticket this has been a problem for years and it seems every state is different

Question 24: When must a driver complete the signature/ certification of the driver's record of duty status?

Guidance: In general, the driver must sign the record of duty status immediately after all required entries have been made for the 24-hour period. However, if the driver is driving at the end of the 24- hour period, he/she must sign during the next stop. A driver may also sign the record of duty status upon going off duty if he/she expects to remain off duty until the end of the 24-hour period.

Linda in Wichita Falls, Texas said: We drive a Ford 250 and pull a 14 foot trailer. We were pulled over in New Mexico and cited for no log book. My boyfriend has pulled this trailer for the last 16 yrs and has never been aware of needing a log book. GVW 13,500 lbs. Are we in violation of the law? If so where can I find information on the current laws? We are Texas residents.

If you Drive a Commercial vehicle no matter what size, You need a logbook

Sr in Minnesota in Yukon, Oklahoma said: I run hotshot and will have a rider with once in a while. The rider has a class a and usually just sleeps. I log and see that I can drive 11 hours and have a duty on of 3 so up to 14hrs. According to what I also see my rider could not drive past that either as he is considered on duty. Could he be considered not on duty due to the fact he has no responsibilities and is not doing anything and then take over driving when I'm done? I guess you would call this team driving and wonder how it all works.

As long as he/or/she stays in the sleeper the whole time it is considerd in sleeperbirth, but as soon he gets out he is on duty

L.G.S. in London, Ontario said: The states you must have a legal log it is not a legal document until it is signed I always sign my log @ the start of the day however if you make a mistake and it is signed then you can get a fine however if it is not signed it is not a legal document and technically you should not get a ticket this has been a problem for years and it seems every state is different

I don't sign until the end of the day, It just like any other documents you don't sign until complete.

thats not necessarily true, were you hauling something? was it for hire, or was it for personal use? if it is for personal use you never need a log book and should have a sign on the side of your truck "not for hire". As of last year (2008) the federal government has required that all vehicles over 10,000 pounds registered weight have to apply and display a USDOT # on the vehicle eb=evn if your are not a business!!. If your are driving for hire, and the combined vehicle weight is under 33,000# you are required to have a log book if you travel more than 150 miles (as the crow flys) one way from your base, or more than 12 hours in a single day even if under the 150 mile radius.You say your gvw is 13,500 I am assuming that is combine weight of truck and trailer, because my ford 350 weighs 11,200 by itself.

6 months for Driver vehicle reports
3 years for Log Books.
never ever use the same form for both. \Some log books have DVR's on the back.
The law says you are required to keep DVR's 6 months. But if you use the ones on the back of the Log book page you ahve to keep it for 3 years and if you are audited they can use those 2.5 years against you. be smart.

helpquestion in Sparta, Wisconsin said: does anyone know if you work your 70 than go on your 34 off and than during your 34 go to a meeting that you get paid for do you have to log this?

Any work regardless of what it is, needs to be logged on duty not driving if you receive compensation for it.

My husbands company is requiring him to run a paper log book and an electronic log book simultaneously. My husband wants to fight his company on this but can't find anywhere about this being illegal. Does anyone have suggestions? Before he goes against his company, he would like proof--especially with the risk of losing his job.

A company can change thier policy at any time. When you hire on to a co. you agree to exsisting co. policy if it is in their policy that they can do this than they can. Check the original co. policy that your husband agreed to, if its not in their than yeh fight it, but use little discresion, and think of how hard it is to find a job in this economy. Agreeing to a policy when you start is like a contract, and contract changes must be agreed upon by all parties.

I use to drive and dispatch for a lumber yard. When we did local deliveries within 100 miles we did not have to log. If we went out over a hundred miles from home base or out of state you had to log. Your work week of 60 hours was regulated by time clock if you used one or the various other options companys use.

remember, that 100 miles is as "The Crow Flys" your base is the center of that circle. You also have to keep a log if you work more than 12 hours in one day, even if you stay "WITHIN" your 100 mile radius!!!

i recently started drivin for a company and last week they had a load that had to be 15 hours away by the next morning so another guy and myself took the load neither one of which has run teams before so a lil confused about logs we sat for six hours waiting for a return load in which time we walked around cabelas so do those six hours count on my 14 hours

WERE YOU ON THE CLOCK? GETTING PAID AS YOU WALK AROUND AND WAITED? iF SO IT COUNTS. dID YOU GUYS HAVE A SLEEPER? OTHER WISE BOTH YOUR HOURS COUNT AT THE SAME TIME. IF YOU HAD A SLEEPER you could work that out all another way. Your rider if no sleeper must log time even if hes doing nothing. You can try off duty if no sleeper, don't say in sleeper if you do not have a qualified area and hope for the best when he takes over. But thats not the way the law looks at it. If you were off the clock and not by the truck your free time is yours off duty.

thanks steve next question if we did teams again would the best thing to do be 10 hours and 10 hours so the clock is always reset and if we did that do u still have to take a 2 hour break ( or 2 1 hour breaks) we have a sleeper

I think one of the best things to do is stop where you get fuel and buy your log books if you don't have them. You each need one and must have a new one for every month. You can buy the cheap ones for $2. Barjan is one brand. The back page will answer your questions and you can use it as a referral. Plus you have 2 options depending on your work week. It also shows you how to log.

Can a driver driving locally for 6 hours fill out a log book, without showing stops, by filling out the driving on duty line only?

log book was not updated from 2 hour is it violation. officer gave me ticket for that.

log book was not updated from 2 hour is it violation. officer gave me ticket for that

Ken said: who has to fill out a log book . i drive a book truck that weight 12000 with my tools in it.
should i have to fill out a log book . i do work for the phone companies. so some days i drive 15 min. to work and other day i have to drive 250 miles to work that day should i have to fill on out everyday or what

their waching your time from one job 2the other inless it have air brakes but sill yet the weight under 24ooo only other reason wood be if u go out for weaks at a time

lionrajin@hotmail.com in Surrey, British Columbia said: log book was not updated from 2 hour is it violation. officer gave me ticket for that.

In the Usa they must give you a chance to update the log book. You may drive hours without stopping then you would update. But say you forgot, you still have the right to correct.

NO as long as u did not change duty statis within the last 2 hours

My company put me in violation for not turning in 2 days loggs for days that I was off for home time,even marking down that I had 2 consecutive days off on next log filled out.
How am I suppoused to fill out tose days off?

Harold Lehmann in Sarnia, Ontario said: I have a legal question about US regulations:
US regulation 395.13 (b) (3) states:
"A driver failing only to have possession of a record of duty status current on
the day of examination and the prior day, but has completed records of duty status up to
that time (previous 6 days), will be given the opportunity to make the duty status record current."
No matter how many times I read this regulation it tells me: if I get pulled over or
into a scale and my logbook isn't up to date, I must be given opportunity to make it
up to date.

If you keep your log book current you would NOT need the time to catch it up.I have been driving truck's for 20 years now the last ten otr.I have been pulled into the scales alot of times and NEVER needed to catch up my log's.If you do what you need to do with your log's you will never be harassed with DOT..

I have heard so many comments about how to avoid a ticket getting some services of some "lawyer" or at least they avoid one point or whatever. Can someone tell me if this really works and how expensive it is?

Does Concrete trucks in KY have to keep inspection logs in truck when sitting on lot