Log Book Legal Question

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manic ride in Brockton, Massachusetts

54 months ago

Yes i punch a time clock,i only drive 75 miles away from my terminal. it's a non cdl truck

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DfemaleEinstein in Jacksonville, Arkansas

54 months ago

Before you do anything, you need to protect your CDL and your job. There are so much changes being made, especially the new CSA2010 laws cracking down on drivers. If you want more info, contact me at DfemaleEinstein10@yahoo.com

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kyle in College Station, Texas

54 months ago

Can riding in a crew van be considered off duty time while still on the clock?

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Gil T in Round Rock, Texas

54 months ago

Harold Lehmann in Sarnia, Ontario said: I have a legal question about US regulations:
US regulation 395.13 (b) (3) states:
"A driver failing only to have possession of a record of duty status current on
the day of examination and the prior day, but has completed records of duty status up to
that time (previous 6 days), will be given the opportunity to make the duty status record current."
No matter how many times I read this regulation it tells me: if I get pulled over or
into a scale and my logbook isn't up to date, I must be given opportunity to make it
up to date.

Along I certainly set myself for such a DOT sting many times, I never got busted. As I recall and as I understood the quotation you posted, yes, you are allowed to the opportunity to make it up. The reason is the officer can see from your previous 6 days you have been keeping your log. However, a word to the wise: If you have to really stretch and manipulate time/distance to fill your log to represent where you are at the moment of inspect, __ you're busted. Hope this helped.

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Gil T in Round Rock, Texas

54 months ago

kyle in College Station, Texas said: Can riding in a crew van be considered off duty time while still on the clock?

My comment is a flash from 35 yrs back, but to the best of my knowledge riding in the cab can be applied to sleeper berth (but, really, do get your sleep) but not off duty time.

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steve in Wichita, Kansas

52 months ago

a driver just asked me if he could show the drive time to a town, then when he got there flag it at being in the town and keep the drive time going since he gets to the town, spends 6 to 7 min on a drop and hook then leaves. is this legal?

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larry in London, Ontario

52 months ago

what no pre trip on the trailer you just picked up? you have to show on duty for pre trip sounds to me like you should slow down do things right pre trip pre trip pre trip think about it!!!!

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Tom

52 months ago

This forum has been an amazing find for me. Thank you all so much already. I work for a wholesale place that occasionally entails delivery work. If I spend a few days at my workplace performing tasks that do not involve driving at all, and then do a drive, are my non-driving hours/days supposed to be kept in a log book as on-duty non-driving time? I've had a few situations where I'll list a day or a few as "off" and write in the notes that I was either not working at all or remained at my workplace, and I would be asked if my time was kept on a timecard, which it is, and not have any problems. However, I have also been told that even hours spent working at a second or third job were to be listed as on-duty not driving. Is any of this even pertinent if I am stopped within 100 miles of my workplace?

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attitudeforlife in Phoenix, Arizona

52 months ago

Why keep 14 with you when only 7 are required? May as well avoid
giving them a chance to ticket you for the extra 7!

dan. in Airdrie, Alberta said: Some times a driver makes an honest mistake in the log book,and he/she has signed it is true and correct.He/She gets a ticket.This is just a thought.Why sign the book at all? After all, you don't have to do,say or sign anything that may incriminate yourself.And if your declaring it as a legal document,shouldn't it be notorized as such by a some one authorized to do so?Again,just a thought.
I never keep a log book as a book,I tear them apart and make them loose pages,that way if I get pulled in for an inspection they can't look at the full book.I keep only the last 14 days and the current day to show them.Never had a problem at a scale doing it that way.

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karen in Alden, New York

52 months ago

you should always use loose leaf log pages. And I wouldnt keep more than the last 7 days. If they are in the book they can ticket you on them even if longer than seven days. And dont ever use the back side of a log sheet for your pre or post trip inspections, They should always be a seperate book. Pre trip books only have to be kept for 6 months, then you can throw them out. Logs must be kept 3 years. If you use the ones on the back of the log book sheets, they can go back 3 years on pre trips and fine you accordingly. I say never give them more than what they absolutely ask for.

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mikellv7@yahoo.com in Port Charlotte, Florida

52 months ago

dan minerva in West Palm Beach, Florida said: Are log books legal documents in court of law to fight for money owed to you for the trips that were delivered.Each log has trip number on it.

Danny Boy it's Mikey V call me I lost your new number

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Saf in Cibolo, Texas

52 months ago

Big Truckin in Conneaut Lake, Pennsylvania said: Hello Truckers**
If you need commercial log books visit the online truck stop. www.12volt-travel.com

I have a question my husband got a log violation because his log was done but messes op on log threw one on floor but cop gave him a ticket for false log will MHD get fired

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greg in Chicago, Illinois

49 months ago

i have a class a do i have to keep a log working pt driving a box truck in indiana

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John in Scottsdale, Arizona

48 months ago

QUOTE who="Steve in Edmond, Oklahoma"]I assume you start from the same base every day. If you have a commercial license, health card etc. and are required to be that way you must log if you travel more then a 100 miles from base or go over state lines. You can be commercial without air brakes. And your big campers with air brakes get away without commercial currently. Even one ton pickups are going to require dot and health cards shortly **The 100 miles are AIR MILES, which are 115 ROAD MILES. Also, crossing a State Line doees NOT mean you nead to fill out a log book(read the section again, there is NO mention about a State Line and it also says AIR MILES. Keep your drivers handbook with you and put a paper clip on the page so you can show an officer if you are questioned about it. John

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Kandy in Moss, Tennessee

47 months ago

Does anyone know if you can rollover your hours. They told my husband every 7 days, The first day rolls off and he has more working hours. He reach his 70 today. He was pulled over 55 miles from delivery point. His driver manager told him he can use rollover hours because 10.25 will be dropping off his 7 day count. He has had a few days due to weather and stuff where he sat for 24 hours without working however has not had a full 34 off yet. Is this rollover legal. They want him to use these 10 hours to deliver and then head home empty to reset. He is still about 260 miles from home after delivery. Please someone He dont want a violation. we have never heard of this.

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mike in La Follette, Tennessee

46 months ago

sweetser_michael@yahoo.com in Spokane, Washington said: there is no set limit to the hours you can work, except that you are still limited to the 70 hr rule.you do not need to fill out a log book, but if you cross any state lines in your 100 mile radius from your starting terminal point you must fill out a log book. all your stops can be consolidated, as long as you show the total hrs driving and the total hrs loading/unloading.

Can you referance where you got the info on crossing state lines you must fill out a log book.

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wife of a driver in Chicago, Illinois

46 months ago

Company has electronic logging.. for months now notice was given to all drivers that they could access internet to get printed rocords or perhaps record to a memorystick to keep their permanant logbook records, but there has been a flaw in the system not allowing drivers access to their records. Numerous complaints, no help given in retrevail for saving for permanant record copy. Now due to a change, no longer driving for said company, and still no logs. How do we get our logs for our records and yes, we asked for them and if they do not give them to us soon, the system holding them supposedly will permanantly delete its data for a year to 6 months and we will not be able to have a copy for the full year or otherwise.

what do we do?

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wife of a driver in Chicago, Illinois

46 months ago

Oh yes and in reference to the question just above... another thing, just how long are we supposed to keep the logbooks for? If the logbooks have to do with taxes and for the IRs, should not the company be required to have provided that elecronic information to us back in January like our w-2s are supposed to be provided? If that is the case, then the company is holding us up in doing our taxes for this year and thats a problem.

If we cannot get access becasue the access is being denied due to a fault in their internet system, isnt that illegal for the company to do?

NOW WHAT?

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Karen in Alden, New York

46 months ago

You do not have to keep a log book if you work in a 100 mile air radius of your base. If you work in a 100 mile air radius you do not have to keep a log book if you cross state lines.!!!!!!!! You do however have to record the road name, or route # you are on when entering a differernt state and the trucks mileage at each point of entry. And mark the total numbers of miles travled in that state. That information is for IFTA recording! Say my driver is based in NEw York and drives in to Pennsylvania, he marks down he is entering on Rt.15, he records his mileage as 123,456. then 2 hours later he re-enters NY recording that he left PA on Rt. 220 and the mileage. That information may be kept on DTR's or in a notebook, or a log book if preferred as long as the information gets to the owner. But remember if you use a log book and its not necessary it can be used for or against you in an audit. Log books must be kept for 3 years, pre and post trip books 6 months. Never use the same book for both!!!!!!!!!!

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attitudeforlife in Tempe, Arizona

45 months ago

DOT only requires that you have today plus the past 7 days with you, so that should be all they require. And if you didn't drive during those past 7 days, you can do a single log page, dated on the first day...then there should be a place on the log that asks the number of days that page covers, including the day it's dated. Sounds more confusing than it is...

Say you haven't worked at all in March so far. Today's the 11th and they call you into work. You fill out one log page dated March 4. You draw a straight line from midnite to midnite on line 1 (off duty, not driving). You then have 24 hours on that line...0 hours on lines 2, 3, and 4 (sleeper, driving, and on-duty, not driving). Then in the area where you normally put your stops, you simply write in there..."Off duty - City, State" and under it "3/4/11 to 3/10/11". Somewhere on your logsheet there should be a space that says something about multiple days on it...you put "07"...This becomes your past 7 days log.

then you start a new log page dated 3/11/11 and do your usual thing.

IF the company's is extremely anal about having you do a log page for every single day you weren't working, simply do the same thing, only start the page with your first day of not working, and put 21 or however many days total. (Or you can split it into 2 back pages....one for last 7 days to keep with you in your truck for DOT, and one for the days prior to that 7 to give to the company for the the first 2 weeks.

Hope that wasn't all TOO confusing!! :)

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wife of a driver in Plainfield, Indiana

45 months ago

Lost job.. so if no work for months since unemployed.. do I have to keep daily log book? Who knows when I will work or even drive again.

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Trucker44

44 months ago

How many years do have to keep your log book records?

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karen in Victor, New York

44 months ago

you must keep log book records for 3 years. And I will stress this again
DO NOT DO YOUR PRE-TRIP ON THE BACK OF YOUR LOG SHEET. Always have a seperate book for your pre trips. pre trips only need to be kept for 6 months!! So if they are on the back of your log sheet and they do an audit they can go back 3 years on you pre trips. don't give them any ammo

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karen in Victor, New York

44 months ago

a pretending driver in Campbell, California said: how many hours should i drive if i am driving local only no more than 100 miles and should i fill up a log book?

You can only drive 12 hours if you drive over that you are required to keep a log boog for that day

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nedo60 in Durant, Oklahoma

44 months ago

Our drivers own their own trucks (1Ton) and lease to us. They deliver travel trailers all over the US, and the drivers live all over the US. When they drop the trailer, they are no longer under our control or dispatch until we assign them another load. Can they log "off duty"?

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Laura

43 months ago

Our driver normally drives about 5 hours a day out of his 8 hour shift with most of the driving in a 50 mile radius, But once a month he will drive to one customer who is 240 miles away. so round trip is 480 miles. It is a 8 hour round trip. How is he supposed to keep his log book? Does he keep one everyday or just on the days he drives the long trip?
Thanks,

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ray072360@insightbb.com in Louisville, Kentucky

43 months ago

I am a Commercial Driver working for a National Company. They have in their fleet Class B Commercial Buses,(2)2 passenger commercial box trucks licensed at 15000 lb, and just recently 8 sprinter cargo 2 pass cargo vans licensed at 10000 lbs(non-commercial). My question has to do with logging.I understand when driving the Class B commercial buses that we are under the 10 hrs seat time and 15 hrs total drive time rule.When driving the sprinters, this company has told me that since they don't have any DOT Id #'s and are under 10000 lbs they are considered non-commercial and we can work an unlimited amount of hours.My understanding of the Logging process is that these logs is a log of all compensated time so that no matter what you are driving or whomever you are working for, you must log "ALL" of your hours that you work.In doing so, since I carry a commercial driver's license,I am still governed by the amount of hours that I work in a day.I am not sure that these sprinters would follow under the truck rules( 10hrs drive time 14 hrs) I do know that working an unlimited amount of hours doesn't sound right to me.Could somebody clarify this for me ?

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mrivera3200gt@aol.com in Rock Hill, South Carolina

42 months ago

How many trucks can you put on a log book

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mrivera3200gt@aol.com in Rock Hill, South Carolina

42 months ago

Trucker44 said: How many years do have to keep your log book records?

3 years

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Trucker44 in Stanwood, Washington

42 months ago

As many as you drive that day.

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Rich in Fl in Zephyrhills, Florida

41 months ago

manic ride in Brockton, Massachusetts said: I drive a Non-CDL box truck for a company that insist I fill out logs, I cross state lines but is it illegal for me not to fill out logs? I've never been ask for my logbook from any state trooper

If you cross state lines, you need a logbook.

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Rich in Fl in Zephyrhills, Florida

41 months ago

I should have said, that doesn't mean anything if the State Troopers don't ask for a logbook. You cross state lines and regardless of the miles you travel you are considered an "interstate commerce" carrier. You should log it. Your company supplies the books, and it only takes a few minutes to fill them out.

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Betsy in Quincy, Illinois

41 months ago

I have a local driver but he crosses the state line. Can he use a local log book or does he still need to use the regular log book?

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mrivera3200gt@aol.com in Rock Hill, South Carolina

41 months ago

regular log book.

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mrivera3200gt@aol.com in Rock Hill, South Carolina

41 months ago

mrivera3200gt@aol.com in Rock Hill, South Carolina said: 3 years

but you only half to show seven days

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rogran in Littleton, Colorado

41 months ago

I am a warehouse manager / dispatcher for a locally owned heating & air conditioning wholesaler. We use penske 24 foot stakebed trucks (non CDL) to make our local deliveries and have never done log books or trip reports. We are in denver and two days a week our driver goes to colorado springs and pueblo and probably averages 150 miles one way. Two days a week he goes to Boulder then to Fort Collins and probably averages 100 miles one way. I recently hired a guy that insists that we should be doing daily log books/trip reports. He is afraid of indangering his license, can anybody tell me if we are breaking laws or how i find out?

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karen in Akron, New York

41 months ago

FMCSA has a rule book Penske will GIVE you one, Every year Penske gives safety and informational meetings you and your drivers should go they are very important I get a new FMCSA rule book every year. take amp of where your deliveries are draw a circle around the area using your place as the center of the circle, if the farthest place is 150 miles as the crow flies you are fine and do not need log books. remember the mileage is "AS THE CROW FLIES" not actual miles driven. because you are non cdl you do not have to record when crossing state lines as there are not apportioned plates on the trucks!!!!!!!!!!

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karen in Akron, New York

41 months ago

FMCSA SAFETY REGULATION BOOK, PART 395.1 section e short haul operations (2) Operators of property carrying commercial motor vehicles not requiring CDL drivers licenses. are exempt from section 395.3 and 395.8, get the book and read

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rogran in Littleton, Colorado

41 months ago

karen in Akron, New York said: FMCSA SAFETY REGULATION BOOK, PART 395.1 section e short haul operations (2) Operators of property carrying commercial motor vehicles not requiring CDL drivers licenses. are exempt from section 395.3 and 395.8, get the book and read

Thanks Karen, you have been very helpful. My penske rep is on vacation last and this week which is why I posted for help. As soon as he is back I will see about getting a copy of the FMCSA.

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karen in Akron, New York

41 months ago

you are very welcome

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norbert in Rawtenstall, United Kingdom

40 months ago

mam pytanko jeżdże na logbooku w angli i nie wiem jak z niego korzystać tzn. chodzi mi o czas pracy i czas jazdy pomoże mi ktoś? pozdrawiam

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asphaltcowboy67 in Kannapolis, North Carolina

40 months ago

I have a question for ya, the company I drive for uses people net in there trucks, but want me to use a paper log too, is that not the same thing as running two logs???

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Jack Lloyd in Buffalo, New York

39 months ago

If I am doing local work only and I go from Niagara Falls N.Y. to
Niagara Falls Ont. and return do I need to log it

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jose rod, san antonio

39 months ago

I have a question I work for a university driving charter buses in san antonio, are boss requires that we log on duty not driving even when we spend days not driving just working at the ware house so when we go out on the road we are already running short on hours is this required by Tx DOT are just my employer, also he always wants us to match are pay sheet with are log book.Seems like that is done just to pay us less cause on the road we have to log off alot to save hours, so does Tx DOT COMPARE YOUR PAY SHEET TO YOUR LOG BOOK???

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chazpatty

39 months ago

Our company is based out of indiana but our home base is Arkansas which time zone r we required to log in on???

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Amanda in Syracuse, New York

39 months ago

JLC in Warner, New Hampshire said: My company put me in violation for not turning in 2 days loggs for days that I was off for home time,even marking down that I had 2 consecutive days off on next log filled out.
How am I suppoused to fill out tose days off?

You have to fill out a seperate off duty log and mark two days off on that one.

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mrivera3200gt@aol.com in Rock Hill, South Carolina

39 months ago

you half to fill out a log for two days and wright off duty on the bottom and a line on 24 hrs off duty

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craig in New York, New York

39 months ago

Karen in Alden, New York said: remember, that 100 miles is as "The Crow Flys" your base is the center of that circle. You also have to keep a log if you work more than 12 hours in one day, even if you stay "WITHIN" your 100 mile radius!!!

The term "air-mile" is internationally defined as a "nautical mile" which is equivalent to 6,076 feet. Thus, the 100 air-miles are equivalent to 115.08 statute miles, and 150 air-miles are equivalent to 172.6 statute miles.

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Cary Davis in Fort Smith, Arkansas

39 months ago

Public Information Officer in Washington, District of Columbia said: Yes, you must be giving an opportunity to bring you log book current. However, the purpose of the regulation is to allow the Law Enforcement Officer to determine whether or not you are in compliance with the 11/14/70 hour requirements. If you are in compliance, he cannot put you out of service, and "officer discretion" will determine if you are issued a citation or not . If you are beyond the 11/14/70 hour rule after bringing your log current, or your last change of duty status was sometime before the previous calender date, you can expect to receive an OOS order.

And (as previously mentioned) I know of no regulation that allows enforcement officials to go back three years. Carriers are only required to maintain the original logs at the driver's home terminal for six months. After that they can be destroyed.

This is completely incorrect information. Like previously stated the FMSCA cites that you will be given the chance to bring the record of duty status up to date, however it is at the discreation each state to make a law that requires the drivers to be current regardless of federal law. Each state can make laws more strengent than that of federal law on most any FMCSA standard.

Cary Davis
Compliance Officer
Albert Moving and Storage
CaryD@albertmoving.com

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bearbaitchp in Santa Rosa, California

38 months ago

Bus drivers only have to take 8 hr off? Y

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