Log Book Legal Question

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henrist in Londonderry, New Hampshire

48 months ago

i have a question and hope someone can help.I live in the states and run elec.log,but i drive to canada every week,i have to do a log book in canada but my company still has me run my elec. log am i breaking any laws by running 2 logs.thanks for any help.

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Lawman326 in Erie, Pennsylvania

48 months ago

Jay in Boca Raton, Florida said: How do I calculate "hrs gained from 1st day of 7 or 8 day period."
Example: I leave for long haul from Boyton Bch FL to San Antonio TX. I haven't wk'd in 8 days- so I'm working w/ a fresh 70.
How do I calculate "hrs gainedi." Can someone pls help me w/ this.
Thx,
J

When you use the 34 hour restart the hours gained has nothing to do wurh you. The hours gained only comes into play when you are not getting a restart
Think of the hours gained as a rolling 8 days cycke. Every day at midnight you start a new day so the 1st day of the rolling cycle no longer counts in your 8 days so any hours you worked would be available to work today. Today is 1 day, then count back 7 days (including tiday) and see how many hours out of your 70 hours (8days) you can work today.

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Lawman326 in Erie, Pennsylvania

48 months ago

The rules say to put in the furthest point. FMCSA no longer requires that section to be ompleted but if you do complete it then the furthest point should be written. If you write starting and ending point and it's the same then DOT woukd look at it as local work having never lwft the origin city.

Kevin in Northwood, New Hampshire said: At the bottom of your log there is a space to capture From: and To:, if my drivers always end up where they begin in the morning should they record that or should they record the location at the furthest point of their trip?

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Jude

48 months ago

Hi, I have a simple Q that plagues me. I'm
A coach driver, finding myself on over the road
Trips over 100 miles about once or twice a week.
The rest of the time I do local trips, shuttle work
And dispatch. I can barely get one log book straight, and
I don't want to do a local one. "Now"..... When
I'm driving local, or working dispatch, I draw a line
Through the "off duty" top line for those days. I wright in the
Destinations space, "" dispatch work, N/A"". Or ""Shuttle work N/A"". Should I be counting those hours as "on duty" during
Those days? When shuttling, does the pre-trip and milage have to be recorded on my log?. Bottom lone, am I correct or
If stopped, getting in trouble....(again)....
Jude

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Lawman326 in Erie, Pennsylvania

48 months ago

Jay in Boca Raton, Florida said: How do I calculate "hrs gained from 1st day of 7 or 8 day period."
Example: I leave for long haul from Boyton Bch FL to San Antonio TX. I haven't wk'd in 8 days- so I'm working w/ a fresh 70.
How do I calculate "hrs gained." Can someone pls help me w/ this.
Thx,
J

When you use the 34 hour restart the hours gained has nothing to do with you. The hours gained only comes into play when you are not getting a restart. Think of the hours gained as a rolling 8 days cycle. Every day at midnight you start a new day so the 1st day of the rolling cycle no longer counts in your 8 days so any hours you worked on that day that no longer counts would be available to work today. Today is 1 day, then count back 7 days (including today that would be 8 days) and see how many hours out of your 70 hours (8days) you can work today.

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Lawman326 in Erie, Pennsylvania

48 months ago

Jay in Boca Raton, Florida said: How do I calculate "hrs gained from 1st day of 7 or 8 day period."
Example: I leave for long haul from Boyton Bch FL to San Antonio TX. I haven't wk'd in 8 days- so I'm working w/ a fresh 70.
How do I calculate "hrs gained." Can someone pls help me w/ this.
Thx,
J

When you use the 34 hour restart the hours gained has nothing to do with you. The hours gained only comes into play when you are not getting a restart. Think of the hours gained as a rolling 8 days cycle. Every day at midnight you start a new day so the 1st day of the rolling cycle no longer counts in your 8 days so any hours you worked on that day that no longer counts would be available to work today. Today is 1 day, then count back 7 days (including today that would be 8 days) and see how many hours out of your 70 hours (8days) you can work today.

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joshg in shreveport la

48 months ago

I got pulled over b/c the gooseneck I was driving for my company didn't have functioning lights, I also did not have a log book b/c I didn't know I needed one with a gooseneck, the officer put Me out of service. My company sent someone to come get me and I was still on duty and working but they are saying they won't pay me for the time I was out of service because it is illegal. Is this true?

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Question in Burleson, Texas

47 months ago

What kind of trouble can you get into for lying on your log book? Like if it is used in court?

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Larry in Maple, Ontario

46 months ago

shakeymd in Portland, Oregon said: I've recently aquired a 20' box truck and have started a small moving and hauling business . I received an offer from a friend who is moving from Oregon to Oklahoma to move his belongings for him so that he doesn't have to do it himself or hire a mega-mover. I'm curious about any legalities as far as driving interstate, logging hours, insurance , etc. Is this the same as renting a U-haul and driving cross-country or since I'm a "professional" driver , do I need to comply with all the DOT regulations? Thanks.

You must comply with all DOT requirements as you will be an interstate carrier of property

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Larry in Maple, Ontario

46 months ago

Karen in Alden, New York said: You do not need a log book for any vehicle under 26,000# You are allowed to drive 150 miles one way as the crow flys from your base destination. If stopped by DOT you must tell them you are paid hourly and punch a time clock or sign a time sheet daily. I doubt you work more than 60 hours a week therefore you meet all requirements. Your Boss and /or Office manager should have a current FMCSA rule book. I get one every year free from the company I lease my trucks from. Section 395 explains this very clearly!!!!!!

You have to look at the weight rating, not the actual weight of the vehicle

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jethro in Geneva, New York

45 months ago

sweetser_michael@yahoo.com in Spokane, Washington said: regulatiions state that the logbook has to be updated up to the last change in status. the exceptions to the rules are for local deliveries, where you can log multiple stops together. otherwise you are required to keep the log book current. the scalehouse or the inspector has to give you the opportunity to update your log book so you can continue driving , instead of shutting you down for the mandatory 10 hr period.

this is not a totally correct statement...you are required to log everything up to date from your last stopping point and from the time that you began your loging event again...if you drive all day and dont stop..this is a violation under the new 5 hour 30 min rest period rule. it says that after 5 hours of on duty status , a driver must take a mandatory rest period of no less than 30 minutes and must log this as off duty not driving.

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jethro in Geneva, New York

45 months ago

David of Nebraska in Friend, Nebraska said: My question is if you are running a two man team can one driver get a legal 34 hour restart while the other driver is driving the truck?

as long as the driver that is taking the roiling restart does not physically sit in the drivers seat or perform any "on duty status tasks in any manner.....then yes you can take a 34 while the other driver is on duty. this is not a liscense to cheat...you cannot perform a 34 hour restart while driving, fueling, repairing a vehicle, any pre or post trip inspections, checking the other drivers logbook corrections...etc...anything that could be considered an on duty status cannot be performed while on a 34 hour restart. and remember the new rule you must have two periods between 1 am and 5 am.....no exceptions...and you cannot do more than one 34 hour restart per week!!!

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cartman in Cromwell, Connecticut

43 months ago

bob in ottawa il in Franklin Park, Illinois said: i recently started drivin for a company and last week they had a load that had to be 15 hours away by the next morning so another guy and myself took the load neither one of which has run teams before so a lil confused about logs we sat for six hours waiting for a return load in which time we walked around cabelas so do those six hours count on my 14 hours

The only way you can offset your 14 hour rule is via an 8/2 split, but the 8 hours has to be consecutive sleeper berth time, the other 2 hours is at your discretion of off duty or sleeper berth. Example, you drove 5 hours, arrived, showed onduty for checkin, you go to "sleep" for 8 hours, you still have 6 hours you can drive then you have to take 2 hours off, then the cycle repeats. It gets a little confusing, i suggest just sticking with the 10/14 format if you arent great with creative coloring. This is the only way you can fudge the 14 hr rule. Once you are on duty, your 14 starts, period

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cartman in Cromwell, Connecticut

43 months ago

karen in Alden, New York said: it doesnt matter where you drive or where you live your license is a nationally recognized license. All companies must follow the same federal DOT rules!!!!!!!!!!!!! if your truck weighs over 26,000 lbs. and you travel more than 100 miles as the crow flys from your home base you must use a log book! if your truck weighs between 10,001 and 26,000 lbs. you can drive 150 miles before needing a log book. And it doesnt matter how much your truck weighs or how far you have traveled, if you drive over 12 hours in one day you must have a log book for that day!!!!! you must always carry the previous 7 days logs with you at all times. The only exceptions that I am aware of are local bulk milk hauling trucks.

Your vehicle does not have to be over 26000 to have to run a log book, any vehicle used in the commission of comercial use is subject to fmcsa rules and regulations, especially if the vehicle is carrying any sort of hazardous materials. Great indication, if it has a dot number and you travel more than the 100 mile radius, log it!

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cartman in Cromwell, Connecticut

43 months ago

Larry in Maple, Ontario said: It is falsification to redo your logs. The company cannot force you to redo your logs. You can make a correction and initial the correction. If the company does not believe that, wait until the day they get audited and charged. You the driver can also be charged during an audit

Just in addition, the company can never hokd your check, ever! This is a direct violation of labor laws. The company is required to pay you on your normal payday, or before, unless otherwise agreed upon. They can refuse to dispatch you for not having your current logs and dvir turned in, you must turn in logs within 14 days, but they cant hold your money

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chrismonty in Coquitlam, British Columbia

42 months ago

just wondering if anyone out there knows if there would be any legal obligation for me to provide log book entries to verify a team for a load hauled for a broker.

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Trish in North Tonawanda, New York

40 months ago

Hi there. I manage a 24/7 towing business in NY. Only myself and the owner - who is sole owner and operator. He sleeps when needed but otherwise is available 24/7 as is required for his contracts. This year we bought a trailer for towing. He got pulled over because trailer + truck + vehicle = > 10,000 lbs requiring US DOT which we didn't even know he needed. So now we have that and brought our vehicle up to code but still confused about whether he needs a log book / driver files etc.. and what it would need to have (just a record of when he is driving and off the clock? And it says submit to carrier... is that FMSCA? Someone mentioned DMV record, safety record, drug testing programs that need to be completed and mandatory forms? These programs are going to cost hundreds of dollars that we just cant afford. Can anyone please help? I was told we can do this ourselves.

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Joeyjet in Fort Lauderdale, Florida

35 months ago

If you are on vacation or short term disability do you have to fill out log books upon your return to work?

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Lawman326 in Erie, Pennsylvania

35 months ago

You have to show the previous 7 days so yes you would fill out 1 log page showing 7 days off and turn the original in to your company.

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joeyjet in Fort Lauderdale, Florida

35 months ago

Lawman326 in Erie, Pennsylvania said: You have to show the previous 7 days so yes you would fill out 1 log page showing 7 days off and turn the original in to your company.

Even though technically not working?

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Lawman326 in Erie, Pennsylvania

35 months ago

Joeyjet in Fort Lauderdale, Florida said: Even though technically not working?

yes. You have to have the previous 7 days logs so you would just fill out 1 page. Write off duty across the comments section and fill everything else out just like a nornal off duty day. Draw the line across the graph in the off duty part and add up all the slots on the graph to equal 24 hours and company name, address and sign it.

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Lawman326 in Erie, Pennsylvania

35 months ago

Lawman326 in Erie, Pennsylvania said: yes. You have to have the previous 7 days logs so you would just fill out 1 page. Write off duty across the comments section and fill everything else out just like a nornal off duty day. Draw the line across the graph in the off duty part and add up all the slots on the graph to equal 24 hours and company name, address and sign it.

Be sure to write the dates for the last 7 days with the first day of the last 7 on the top where it says date.

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andy in Chester-le-street, United Kingdom

33 months ago

why does my agency (driver hire) want timesheets filled in when I don't work for them?

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stingray in Erie, Pennsylvania

33 months ago

you don't decide whether you do a 60 hour 7 day log or 70 hour 8 day log It is whether or not your company normally runs 7 days a week. if your company runs 7 days a week you doing 70 hour eight day log if your company runs 5 or 6 days a week you do a 60 hour 7 day log.

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stingray in Erie, Pennsylvania

33 months ago

andy in Chester-le-street, United Kingdom said: why does my agency (driver hire) want timesheets filled in when I don't work for them?

your question does not make sense.your company cannot make you fill out a timesheet if you did not work for them

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stingray in Erie, Pennsylvania

33 months ago

stingray in Erie, Pennsylvania said: your question does not make sense.your company cannot make you fill out a timesheet if you did not work for them

I just noticed you are not in the United States rules there may be different

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george in Los Angeles, California

30 months ago

If you drive local (within the 100 mile radius) are you allowed to work 7 consecutive 12 hours shifts?

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stingray in Erie, Pennsylvania

30 months ago

No. Exempt drivers have to follow the 70 hour 8 days rule or 60 hour 7 day rule just like other drivers. The only from difference is if a 100 mile exempt driver keeps a log he can work 14 hours (other exceptions apply) . the must still have 10 hours off and can qualify for a restart every 168 his with 2 periods from 1-5am and 34 consecutive hours off.

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lucky1956 in Glasgow, Kentucky

30 months ago

my question is with the new law if i haul as a not for hire driver delivering only one companys product leave from the same place and return to the same place at the end of my work day in a day cab can i use a time sheet that has all hrs of service instead of a log book i drive a day cab

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stingray in Erie, Pennsylvania

30 months ago

If you go over 100 miles from your starting point you need a graph log. If you stay within 100 (air) miles you can use a local log. If you work less than 12 hours a day and return to the same place you left from. If you use a local log you can work up to 14 hours.

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patriciajnsn in Sioux City, Iowa

28 months ago

gas69 in West New York, New Jersey said: I am a CDL driver, I drive a tow truck locally under a 100 mile radius, I puch a time card in the morning and at shift end. I do not travel more than 60 or 70 miles total daily. Am I required to complete a daily log?

Some companies require u to log no matter what.My last company was like that and I only drove within a 100 mile radius.Are tow trk drivers subject to the same HOS as the CDL A drivers are?Your company would be better to answer your question.But I bet they say you do not have to log.

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justin harrill in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma

27 months ago

dACk in Brampton, Ontario said: hi i wanna get rid of my problem ,help me
i have a confusion in 7 days or 8 days cycle
actually i m a safety incharge
our team drivers went for a trip to california they took 8 days for a whole trip,
in first 7 days drivers was on duty for 60 hours but in 8 days he driver for 65 hours so he was in violation or not
he had selected 7 days cycle.......cuz we r canadian carrier so we have 7 days and 14 days cycle....
i wanna know tat we can automaticaly use 8 days cycle as our trip finish on 8th day........

If your company only operates 6 days a week it's a 7 day cycle if u operate 7 days a week it's a 8 day cycle

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heidibowlby in Keene, New Hampshire

27 months ago

If one driver is put out of service for log book violation can the other driver still drive if he was not found guilty of any violations?

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JBS

27 months ago

If your drivers are not required to do log books because they are within the 100 mile rule but you are preparing to exceed that rule for just a couple drivers, are all drivers required to start doing log books or just the selected few. I ask because I know you need to keep your last 7 days on hand and I worry about having to send another driver out if there is a call off or some sittuation occurs.

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stingray in Erie, Pennsylvania

27 months ago

No. only the drivers going over the 100 miles have to do graph logs. Drivers that don't do local logs can only work 12 hours a day. Drivers that do local logs can work 14 plus one day a week they're allowed to work 16 hours

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stingray in Erie, Pennsylvania

27 months ago

You will have to have the previous 7 days logs in the truck. They can be on duty not driving and write local work in the comments section.

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bill owens in Elmira, New York

26 months ago

when best time lineit at fuel stop or del stop

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Flanagans@*****.*** in Los Angeles, California

26 months ago

Is it illegal for a driver to sign and backdate that a repair has been completed on a dvir - especially if the repair had occurred weeks if not months before (the signature after the the mechanic signs and dates the book.

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stingray in Erie, Pennsylvania

26 months ago

Flanagans@cintas.com in Los Angeles, California said: Is it illegal for a driver to sign and backdate that a repair has been completed on a dvir - especially if the repair had occurred weeks if not months before (the signature after the the mechanic signs and dates the book.

The driver is supposed to sign before he drives that vehicle again or actually the next driver has to sign. If the driver realized it was fixed but didn't sign it I would just have he/she just sign it. It's a supporting document that shouldn't be filed unless it's signed by both. If it never got fixed I would not sign.

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truckersrule44 in Montgomery, Alabama

24 months ago

scjlyoung in Athens, Tennessee said: Whats the rules on who has to fill out log book and who doesn't. My husband drives straight truck that makes daily runs. He was recently pulled over and was written a ticket for not putting he was not working on Saturday and Sunday. I have been told by couple of drivers that he shouldn't have to keep log book. I would appreciate any information on this cause it is an expensive ticket!! Thanks!

The driving radius has been changed to 150 miles. If you drive 150 or less, depending on company policy you do not have to log. Now if you drive over 11 hours you would be required to log this and previous 7 days. My drivers punch a clock so I do not require them to run a log book because the time can be pulled if necessary. If pulled over they just tell them that they are not required to run a log but punch clock. Have never had a problem in 4 years. Not sure if you that answers your question but I hope it helped a little.

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Raines 1 in Denver, Colorado

23 months ago

I drive in the oil fields s, under 150 mile radius. I want to use a local log. Do I still show stop, pre and post tried? Or just straight on and off duty? Then I can drive/work 14 hours, 10 hours off, do it again till I hit 70 hrs, yes? Take 24 or 34 off? Repeat

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stingray in Erie, Pennsylvania

23 months ago

Raines 1 in Denver, Colorado said: I drive in the oil fields s, under 150 mile radius. I want to use a local log. Do I still show stop, pre and post tried? Or just straight on and off duty? Then I can drive/work 14 hours, 10 hours off, do it again till I hit 70 hrs, yes? Take 24 or 34 off? Repeat

If you use a local log you baht take advantage of the oil field exceptions. Check the specifics in section 395 of the FMCSA manual. If those don't pertain or appeal to you then just run a local log. The regulations state you must do a pre-trip and fill out the drivers vehicle inspection report at the end of the day. Anything you may have found during the trip should be added to the post trip. Soon we may not have to fill out the dvir if no defects are found but as of right now it is required for local and over the road drivers and your company must retain it for 3 months.

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thurmand92 in Pawtucket, Rhode Island

22 months ago

ErinDM in Nebraska said: My husbands company is requiring him to run a paper log book and an electronic log book simultaneously. My husband wants to fight his company on this but can't find anywhere about this being illegal. Does anyone have suggestions? Before he goes against his company, he would like proof--especially with the risk of losing his job.

Yes. This is considered running two log books and if they don't match perfectly he will be cited for falsifying logs

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Professional.70380@*****.*** in Morgan City, Louisiana

22 months ago

Sr in Minnesota in Yukon, Oklahoma said: I run hotshot and will have a rider with once in a while. The rider has a class a and usually just sleeps. I log and see that I can drive 11 hours and have a duty on of 3 so up to 14hrs. According to what I also see my rider could not drive past that either as he is considered on duty. Could he be considered not on duty due to the fact he has no responsibilities and is not doing anything and then take over driving when I'm done? I guess you would call this team driving and wonder how it all works.

This depends.does your truck have a sleeper berth.if so then yes he can.he could log 10 hrs in sleeper or 2 hrs in jump seat and 8 sleeper as long as the 2 hr period is directly before or after the 8 hr period in the sleeper.If you don't have a DOT approved sleeper then the answer is no he can't,because without a DOT approved sleeper you both are technically on duty at the same time

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Professional.70380@*****.*** in Morgan City, Louisiana

22 months ago

JBS said: If your drivers are not required to do log books because they are within the 100 mile rule but you are preparing to exceed that rule for just a couple drivers, are all drivers required to start doing log books or just the selected few. I ask because I know you need to keep your last 7 days on hand and I worry about having to send another driver out if there is a call off or some sittuation occurs.

Only the driver going outside the 100 air mile range must do a log.it must include the previous 7 days so depending on the number of hours they work each day they may need or want to take a 34hr restart.you can email me if you have more questions

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Professional.70380@*****.*** in Morgan City, Louisiana

22 months ago

thurmand92 in Pawtucket, Rhode Island said: Yes. This is considered running two log books and if they don't match perfectly he will be cited for falsifying logs

No.this is not considered running two logbooks.the electronic log is the primary logbook.the paper logbook is a back-up incase the electronic log goes down.remember should the electronic log go down for any reason and he is stopped he must still be able to produce for the officer the last 7 days of logs.That said both the paper and electronic log must match or he will be in violation.so each one should show same number miles driven.same number hrs on-duty,off-duty,sleeper,on-duty not driving and the locations for each change of duty status should match.

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Professional.70380@*****.*** in Morgan City, Louisiana

22 months ago

mewahgo@aol.com in Hollywood, Florida said: Not sure if I get my answer in time for this job , but i will know for future reference.
My question is the company im with now is asking me to redo my logs way back to may of this year , they sent my originals back with whiteout on my lines and scribbled out other lines to reflect what "they" wanted me to hand in . They also want me to "clean the DVIR" and put "NO Defects" , this I told them if i do that and DOT stops me and sees I am stating that my truck is good and notices an obvious flaw , i would think now with the new rules 1 that I would get a ticket for Falsification of pre-trip inspection and 1 for the failed item on truck.
Ok my question is is it legal for them to hold my paycheck "hostage " until i return "Fixed" logs } how long back can a company require a driver to fix -redo logs or would it be better to just take these logs that they mashed up with the white out n their notes on it to redo logs with "clean DVIR's" n change hrs to reflect here n here there etc, to dot n rat out the Bad company?
*** keep in mind that pay is per hr reflecting logs handed in not per mile***

Tell them that you need their request in writing since they are holding your paycheck you will be fording the.logs to FMCSA and notitifying them of the companies request because you need their approval.then contact both FMCSA and the dept of labor the company violated federal law when it used white out to change your book.even if a correction is warranted the day after a log is done you must only draw a single line or scratch out the old line and initial.Dont do what they ask

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Professional.70380@*****.*** in Morgan City, Louisiana

22 months ago

karen in Alden, New York said: you should always use loose leaf log pages. And I wouldnt keep more than the last 7 days. If they are in the book they can ticket you on them even if longer than seven days. And dont ever use the back side of a log sheet for your pre or post trip inspections, They should always be a seperate book. Pre trip books only have to be kept for 6 months, then you can throw them out. Logs must be kept 3 years. If you use the ones on the back of the log book sheets, they can go back 3 years on pre trips and fine you accordingly. I say never give them more than what they absolutely ask for.

This is wrong go to FMCSA website pre-trip/post trip must be kept 3 months .drivers daily logs must be kept 6 months

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Professional.70380@*****.*** in Morgan City, Louisiana

22 months ago

Laura said: Our driver normally drives about 5 hours a day out of his 8 hour shift with most of the driving in a 50 mile radius, But once a month he will drive to one customer who is 240 miles away. so round trip is 480 miles. It is a 8 hour round trip. How is he supposed to keep his log book? Does he keep one everyday or just on the days he drives the long trip?
Thanks,

He doesn't need a log book except for the day he does the long trip and the previous 7 days

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Professional.70380@*****.*** in Morgan City, Louisiana

22 months ago

rogran in Littleton, Colorado said: I am a warehouse manager / dispatcher for a locally owned heating & air conditioning wholesaler. We use penske 24 foot stakebed trucks (non CDL ) to make our local deliveries and have never done log books or trip reports. We are in denver and two days a week our driver goes to colorado springs and pueblo and probably averages 150 miles one way. Two days a week he goes to Boulder then to Fort Collins and probably averages 100 miles one way. I recently hired a guy that insists that we should be doing daily log books/trip reports. He is afraid of indangering his license, can anybody tell me if we are breaking laws or how i find out?

If the GCVWR is 10,001 lb or more you need a CDL and if you run more than 100 air miles you must do a log for those days and the previous 7 days.also remember if your vehicle had a DOT number and you don't have an IFTAR sticker you may be required to purchase fuel in the other state

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