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What are the best personal trainer qualifications and training to get ahead?

What is the best training for becoming a personal trainer? What types of ongoing training or certifications are necessary to be an effective personal trainer?

What do non-traditional career paths look like?
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Having worked in the fitness industry for the last 10 years, I've been helping friends and family get in shape for years. Most of the stuff is common sense to me. So, I've decided to become a personal trainer. I know that when I was trying to become a personal trainer is tough to decide between which one of the certifications to choose from. I found that the NASM, ACE and NSCA certifications are generally accepted that every single gym as high-end certifications. As I have read in many articles and internet in looking at the NASM, ACE personal training certifications. I have just found this article www.ptpioneer.com/best-personal-trainer-certification-guide/ it is most related to your question. maybe it will useful for you.
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Oct 5, 2019 Solution by original poster
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Having worked in the fitness industry for the last 10 years, I have seen a trend for which type of certifications are preferred. Currently in 2018 it seems like the NASM, ACE and NSCA certifications are generally accepted that every single gym as high-end certifications. Among these three it seems like the majority of the people either have NASM or ACE. I know that when I was trying to become a personal trainer is tough to decide between which one of the certifications to choose from. Depending on what type of clients you want to train when you become a trainer, you should choose one of the other. It depends on whether you want to focus on weight loss, athletic training, rehab training or any other type. Each certification specializes slightly although they all go over a lot of the same basic information as well. I recommend checking out this article that breaks on the differences between the ACE and NASM certification so that you can get a better idea of which one would be the better one for you. www.ptpioneer.com/nasm-vs-ace/ Another important thing is to talk to the potential gym that you will be working at to see which certification they prefer.
Apr 8, 2018 Solution by original poster
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AFPA/IFPA/ISSA/NASCM/MISFIT/UNFIT......your clients don't care. In the sixteen years I've been a trainer, I have been asked for my certification twice. One of those times was by another trainer! That said, to get in any door, you can't go wrong with ACE (American Council on Exercise). You get that cert. most gyms and health clubs will hire you.
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Oct 28, 2016 Solution by original poster
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There are a few great ways to grow my online personal training business. Later on down the line, I found that growing with new social media networks is a great and fun way to build a following. The best one is found Tang and you can find it here:
get-tang(dot)com?referrerId=adbc91a43e988a3b5b745b8529a90b1
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Apr 12, 2016 Solution by original poster
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Hello

Personal trainer is a lucrative field. But you need to be certified in order to be successful.

Here are some popular certifications:

1. American Council on Exercise (ACE)
2. National Academy of Sports Medicine (NASM)
3. International Sports Sciences Association (ISSA)
4. American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM)
5. National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA)
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Oct 1, 2015 Solution by original poster
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NASM was the best move I made when obtaining my long term goal of becoming a personal trainer. I got 4 offers within 2 weeks of becoming certified and they all were impressed with the NASM cert. I work at a gym that follows NASM proven training techniques and they get results like no other gyms in the area. Ever since I got certified I have changed the way I train myself using NASM OPT Model and I am in the best overall condition of my life.
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Jun 8, 2015 Solution by original poster
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@SamiRella The A.S. degree offered by ISSA would definitely give you a more solid foundation of Exercise Science that will help you as a trainer imho. As for earning potential with the A.S. and cert versus the cert alone, that really shouldn't be a determining factor. I know a few PTs making six figures per year without any certification or formal education. I'm in south Florida, so this may be an exception to the norm - most people seem to be drawn in by the appearance and attitude of trainers as opposed to their qualifications.

To answer the OP, I came across www.healthchill.com which explains in detail the top CPT certifications, including exam preparation, cost and accreditation info. There's also some info on the qualifications to become PT www.healthchill.com/fitness-careers/certified-personal-trainer-requirements/. Apparently 25% of personal trainers have a bachelors degree, according to the site.
Dec 8, 2013 Solution by original poster
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I am a dancer interested in becoming a personal trainer. ISSA offers an associates degree in exercise science with a focus on personal training. Any thoughts on this? I was originally looking at just getting the pt and fitness nutrition certifications until I saw this.
Jul 29, 2013 Solution by original poster
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personal trainer certification with nutrition knowledge is very important hence get national certified with

National Certification Career Association NCCA
www.nccanow.com

Certified Personal Trainer Specialist
nccanow.com/personal_trainer.html

Duties: Perform and conduct fitness assessments and personal training sessions.

Observing class participants in order to help them improve their skills
Teaching participants how to get the maximum benefit from exercise routines
Planning exercise routines
Developing suitable training programs based on clients' skills, fitness levels and special requirements
Monitoring clients' progress and making adjustments to exercise routines as needed
design and implement individual workout programs
demonstrate and coach clients on the proper use of cardiovascular and strength equipment
promote safe technique and form when weight training
discuss health and fitness goal setting; keep detailed and accurate records of client information
provide regular weekly appointment hours
monitor proper exercise technique throughout the facility
May 11, 2013 Solution by original poster
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Certified Personal Trainer Specialist

Duties: Perform and conduct fitness assessments and personal training sessions.

Observing class participants in order to help them improve their skills
Teaching participants how to get the maximum benefit from exercise routines
Planning exercise routines
Developing suitable training programs based on clients' skills, fitness levels and special requirements
Monitoring clients' progress and making adjustments to exercise routines as needed
design and implement individual workout programs
demonstrate and coach clients on the proper use of cardiovascular and strength equipment
promote safe technique and form when weight training
discuss health and fitness goal setting; keep detailed and accurate records of client information
provide regular weekly appointment hours
monitor proper exercise technique throughout the facility

nccanow.com/personal_trainer.html

As a GENERAL rule of thumb, there are five certifications widely recognized at gyms and health clubs across the United States:
1. American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM)
2. National Certification Career Association (NCCA)
3. National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA)
4. American Council on Exercise (ACE)
5. National Academy of Sports Medicine (NASM).
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Apr 7, 2013 Solution by original poster
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Certified Personal Trainer Specialist

Duties: Perform and conduct fitness assessments and personal training sessions.

Observing class participants in order to help them improve their skills
Teaching participants how to get the maximum benefit from exercise routines
Planning exercise routines
Developing suitable training programs based on clients' skills, fitness levels and special requirements
Monitoring clients' progress and making adjustments to exercise routines as needed
design and implement individual workout programs
demonstrate and coach clients on the proper use of cardiovascular and strength equipment
promote safe technique and form when weight training
discuss health and fitness goal setting; keep detailed and accurate records of client information
provide regular weekly appointment hours
monitor proper exercise technique throughout the facility

nccanow.com/personal_trainer.html

As a GENERAL rule of thumb, there are five certifications widely recognized at gyms and health clubs across the United States:
1. American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM)
2. National Certification Career Association (NCCA)
3. National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA)
4. American Council on Exercise (ACE)
5. National Academy of Sports Medicine (NASM).
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Apr 7, 2013 Solution by original poster
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Stressing? You are making me LAUGH! It feels GREAT! "something you obviously dont take the time to do" Yeah right! Again laughing out loud.. Once again, lost 100 lbs. Run 10 miles every other day. More energy than i did when i was 18. Havent been sick in 5 years..not even a cold. Perfect blood pressure (used to be high when i started) Right. But I havent taken the time to study how the human body functions. I think YOU OVER study! Overcomplicate things. Its not that complicated . Relax. Have a Cup of Chamomile tea while you watch the biggest Loser. Just quit watching the NEWS, will ya? . Not everything they tell you is the truth.
Jun 19, 2012 Solution by original poster
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Hahaha! Jillian Michaels has a show to bud. As does Tony Horton and the a$$ hat who created "Insanity." "...and Im quite certain probably more than you too." So, are you quite certain or probably? It's obvious you don't believe in education...but that's neither here nor there. Not to mention, we've never met. You should work on your insecurities too pal. That kind of stress raises cortisol levels. I'm assuming you understand what elevated cortisol does to the human body? And let me be honest...I've learned more in the years since my college graduation than I EVER did during college. Not to mention, it was a hefty bill. But there's just something about those foundations that keep the vets coming back to me asking questions that they should probably know. Oh and by the way, my reference was to a heart surgeon, not a doctor. I'm a very holistic person, so I completely understand that most docs are morons and I don't trust many of them. But again, I'm not allowing my mother to be operated on by a guy who saved a monkey once. It's unfortunate that you've been suckered into this conversation because I have good friends who train and don't have degrees...and they are BEASTS in the industry. Funny thing, they all completely understand my "big words," and use them quite often. That might be because they have absorbed themselves in how the human body functions. Something you obviously haven't taken the time to do. If you're interested I'd like to throw you some names that will help you catch up. Just keep in mind that you'll have to drop that whole "train in your fat burning zone" bullsh!t. I'll catch your show when I'm finished watching Biggest Loser reruns.
Jun 19, 2012 Solution by original poster
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Oh sure Jay, Im light years behind some of you? Catch my health show and you will see..That is why I am 45 , look like im 25, and have more energy and vitality than most 18 year olds and Im quite certain probably more than you too. But thats neither here nor there..You see the ones who are TRULY "Behind" are people like you who have been brainwashed into the masses way of thinking that formal education actually "legitimizes" someone in their field. . Most (though not all) doctors are educated idiots. Had i listened to the "doctors" i would be overmedicated and/or dead by now. Everyone i know seeing a "Doctor" who got their "degree" that "legitimizes" the biz is STILL chronically ill and gettinng worse. And they will stay ill as long as they are under their care. You see, you have to break free from the masses collective way of thinking and think outside the box. Your big words and references only make me laugh and further confirm my suspicions that most people are simply programmed to think a certain way-and that is "formal education legitimizes people"..throw out some big words and suddenly we know what we are talking about! Im still laughing. Formal education, though beneficial in MANY MANY ways, has nothing to do with whether or not someone knows what they are talking about. Only to the sheeple who have been programmed to think so. Catch my health show.. you might learn a thing or two! 🙂
Jun 19, 2012 Solution by original poster
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That's great and we're all real proud of you guy, but how do you legitimize an industry without setting educational standards for those involved? Would you allow a surgeon to do heart surgery on you because he practiced on a few monkeys and thought he had a pretty good idea about what he was doing? I think not. It doesn't take a genius to understand how to lose weight....it's as simple as burning more than you're taking in. Understanding movement preparation, injury prevention, properly progessing a client into a strength from a stability phase and then(if) a power phase of training, periodization, time under tension, understanding how to recognize over vs underactive muscle groups and the importance of it, being able to diagnose things like anterior pelvic tilt or kyphosis, knowing how to manipulate rep, set, and weight ranges to elicit correct training volume during a session and how that relates to subsequent sessions, understanding myofascial release, stretch reflex mechanisms, and a host of other sh*t that the fitness lay person knows nothing about is a-whole-nother ball game. I'm an advocate of (one day) health insurance helping to alleviate the costs of training for those with clinical issues that need a trainer. Do you think a doctor would ever be willing to prescribe a trainer to a patient just because that trainer lost some weight and said he knew what he was doing? You think Humana would pay for something like that? This is much bigger than it looks. You may run circles around some, but I can promise you, you're light years behind alot of us.
Jun 18, 2012 Solution by original poster
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All these comments make me laugh. I do NOT have ANY kind of certifications OR degrees in excercise, personal training, or nutrition. YET, im quite confident i could run circles around 99 percent of the personal trainers out there with there "Degrees" and "certifications"...not knocking education, its great and i have a degree.. but these comments are directed at the people saying those not certified or have a degree in the field "undermine" our industry. I have news for you, I have my own health series video going, i run ten miles every other day, i have lost 100 l bs in three years, i am solid muscle, have more energy than i did when i was 18 (i am 45) and i LOOK better than i did when i was 25. I have not had a hint of sickness in 5 years. And i did this ALL MYSELF, through my OWN research, and hard work. NO degree, no certification. So those that say im "unqualified" to TEACH or TRAIN.. lets go to the track and see who wins and looks better. Any day. Any time. Get real people. Certs and degrees are formalities and thats all they ever will be. But again, education is good in general. Just tired of the snobs in this industry and all others who think that because someone doesnt hold a degree they dont know what they are talking about. I guarantee i have more knowledge about nutrition than most PHD's.
Jun 18, 2012 Solution by original poster
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Well, a lot of guys think they need a big chest... I think women look nice with one but..... Anyways, I try to even it out.. Work out the whole body + cardio. The routine depends on a persons fitness level and their goals. Cardio warmup. Plyometrics after. Monday, Wednesday, Friday = Chest, Back, Biceps, Calves. Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday = Quads, Hams, Shoulders, Triceps. Monday/ tuesday = Light weight (or calasthenics)/ high rep. Wednesday/ Thursday = Medium weight/ medium reps Friday/Saturday = High weight/ Low reps. Sunday rest. But, that's MY routine. My goal is to be fit, build some muscle but no too much, and have endurance. And, I try using that as a base for clients. They might have more rest days and depending on their goals more heavy weight days or light weight days or medium weight days.
Some people want to look big and muscular and don't care if they have any real strength. Some people want strength but don't care if they're big. Some people want endurance. Some people just want to lose their gut. And, they need a diet and workout built on that. I try a lot of different exercises to see how it works, what it works, how it feels, maybe imagine various injuries one might have and how that would feel.
Anyhoo, i'll get off my soapbox....
Mar 14, 2012 Solution by original poster
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Agreed. Those same individuals' workout routine starts every Monday with chest. "Chest day! Every Monday! Chest day! Let's hit it again Wednesday! Gotta get some chest in!" Don't remember the last time they pulled weight from the floor, squatted, did pullups, pistol squats, bear crawls, performed suspension training, hell, even worked chest properly, or did ANYTHING to prevent injury. There's a room full every where I go. Completely clueless.
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Mar 14, 2012 Solution by original poster
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Yes it is. Not to mention close minded. In my experience you have to be open minded. You never know what's gonna happen tomorrow. And like I said before, "THEY" are always telling society what exercises are good and bad this week. As well as, what foods are good and bad for you this week. Our society, in general, is very easily swayed by suggestion. So, as a personal trainer you need to be able to take that information, along with experience, nature, etc and determine weither it has any merit or if their just trying to up the market in a certain area. If you're consistant with your workout and diet and you get consistant results then it works. You might fine tune stuff, but changing it all together because they tell you blueberries are bad for you. That's crazy.
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Mar 14, 2012 Solution by original poster
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Oh yeah, as far as personal trainer certifications. No, a personal trainer shouldn't be working with olympic atheletes, professional atheletes or even college atheletes. That's what College educated Athletic trainers are for. They know how to get that extra edge.
I wouldn't want a personal trainer working with injured atheletes. That's what College educated Rehabilitation Trainers are for.
Personal Trainers are for the average Joe (or Jill). To help them better themself without injuring themself. Yes, you can talk to someone that has the results you want. But, if a trainer got them to where they are; they don't know as much as you think they do. If that were the case; profession atheletes wouldn't need trainers. They've been doing it through high school and college.
Mar 14, 2012 Solution by original poster
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Actually; a person trying to better themself and their body should be looking at many things. Contrary to the infomercial revolution; there is no magic pill or magic diet or magic workout plan that is going to work for everyone. First, they need to know where they want to be; their goal. If you have no goal, then you have no way of developing a useful routine and diet. And, yes I say look at nature; especially with diet. We are animals. No, you're not gonna get any insight from studying animals for sports training. Animals don't play football. But, you can look at what foods add fat to their body. You don't see heart attacks and strokes in wildlife very often. Our society is hooked on tons of addictive/ processed foods that's doing nothing but making them fat and lazy.

And, of course look at people that have gotten the results you want. You don't just take one aspect to conquer your goal. You gather any helpful info from wherever it is reliable. But, you can't go into a gym for the first time and start lifting what your goal is lifting. You'll get hurt. Now if you know someone that has gone from where you are to where you wanna be; that MIGHT work. Everybody is different. They have different reactions to workouts and foods.

BTW Why are you such an ass to everyone?? Does that help you win over clients???
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Mar 14, 2012 Solution by original poster
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I may have read that wrong, but I'm fairly certain you wouldn't allow a General Physician performing any kind of, let's say, open heart surgery on you. The industry is completely watered down due to the fact that anyone can get certified. Hell, if you don't work in a gym all you have to do is say you're a trainer and you are one. And time in service isn't near as impressive as being able to shed knowledge. Once in a blue moon, you'll come across your Louie Simmons types.....I take back...there is only one Louie Simmons. He's the exception and I'm positive, no one posting on this thread is remotely on his level. I digress. Wanna legitimize the industry? Degrees and licences. Done deal.
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Mar 13, 2012 Solution by original poster
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...blah blah blah"
I also think the industry itself is at fault with this being an issue to begin with. For example: The industry should be monitored and do away with the non accredited and online certifications. Someone also mentioned an example that we wouldn't want a non PhD to perform surgery on us, well, a Doctor has practical application courses and also a mandatory 2 or 3 year internship and yet the fitness industry and certifying companies allow a trainer to pass a test and be a certified personal trainer ready to manipulate another persons body without ever knowing if this trainer will apply that knowledge correctly. How would the client know anything is wrong? Then all you have to do is take a course or attend a Fitness Conference and earn continuing education units, pay the certifying company and voilà, another two certified years.
I believe it's like everything else in our world and needs improvement. There are unqualified people in all realms, there are people who just don't care about their jobs, or simply lack passion. As there are cashiers that are clueless when you ask them a question, there are also PhD's that are arrogant and simply don't care for anything other than their income. Maybe we should be licensed like Dieticians and Nurses. It might help the quality of the industry and only attract those that truly want to work in this field! Had it been that way when I started I would have taken whatever route to be qualified as a PT.
Mar 12, 2012 Solution by original poster
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are going to hold a position where you are the source of knowledge in fitness that you must be the example. I'm not saying to be a muscle head or elite athlete, but to be exactly the opposite of why people go to trainers to begin with is beyond me!
The service members needed our program to provide injury prevention information, training to aid with their Fitness Test and also weight management. I seemed to be the "go to" as I said, those with degrees in fitness education or kinesiology seemed clueless in providing our clients with a program designed for their specific needs and goals.
This has been my experience.

On the other hand, I have been horrified with certified trainers that had the same problem! Certifications do not produce trainers or group exercise instructors ready to hit the floor and train someone or guide a class safely. Some people are great test takers and pass with no difficulty, yet applying the knowledge is another story. A family member holds an Exercise Physiology degree, he was a P.E. teacher for several years, yet he could not produce a basic, safe and effective program. How is this possible if he has a college degree?? My point is that I'm not really sure if it is an absolute that you must have a degree. I don't mean to offend anyone here that has worked hard to earn a college education. Early on after working closely with higher educated co-workers I decided not to invest into college, considering I was earning as much as they were. However, that did not hold me back to learn as much as I could. Someone mentioned that I would not be hired to work at collegiate level as a coach to an athlete as I don't have the education. Would they rather hire one of my co-workers instead? Or how about the P.E. teacher that takes his class to my local gym and the students do everything wrong while he chit chats and I cringe? They would make much better coaches at collegiate level because they have a framed paper on their walls that say "Graduated..
Mar 12, 2012 Solution by original poster
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I have to say that I'm straddling the fence on weather or not a higher education is needed to coach/ personal train. I have 20 yrs experience in both personal training and group exercise. Dance and gymnastics are also a part of my background. I started bottom of the barrel but paid close attention those that trained me with 20 years over me in the industry(no, not all had college degrees, except for one and her Masters was in Law) I must say I was surprised taking my first cert, since they taught me zero on practical application. I was only able to understand the study material based on my personal experience and by what my superiors had already shown me. Later on I found myself working side by side with college graduates that referred to me for help. I found this to be true at several employments throughout the country. I've managed several gyms throughout the years, and yes always fighting with the owners about the clients needs being priority! My last job was for the government and worked with the military's fitness programs. There, I also stumbled on the fact that most of my co-workers had college degrees, however, they knew nothing about applying that knowledge on a practical level or written for that matter. I also recall networking with another military base, the lead of the workshop who was the Health Promotions Director mentioned her Masters in Exercise Physiology every chance she got. Her position was also as a manager to the Fitness Programs Director. I hate to say this but especially for the specific clientele we were serving, both women were extremely overweight! Both were at least 35% body fat (I'm being nice)Yet, they were providing service members the tools they needed to meet their fitness goals and also shoving their degree down my throat! Might I also say that a service member must maintain weight based on height and the military does not accept anything other than the tape measure method for Body Composition Testing. I also believe that if you a
Mar 12, 2012 Solution by original poster
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Yeah, it's trying to convince the one's without a higher education how important it is that becomes a problem. Ala, this thread. Trial and error takes place in all aspects of training, but for someone to completely rely on it is a bit ridiculous. Further up, someone had mentioned his tenure (1967) and how he's "lived the life." That's great...45 years of catching up to the rest of the pack (and more than likely still not there) who really understand how the human body is supposed to perform. My hat's off. Hahahaha! They just don't get it. And the animal analogy......quit getting technical man! I was referring to the ferocity of their movements. If you don't have opposable thumbs, you're not pole vaulting!
Feb 20, 2012 Solution by original poster
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Thats's one thing I say all the time. Look at cows. They eat grass. There's no fat in grass. Does that mean cows don't get fat??? Of course they do. But, the grass they get in fall/ winter is grass that was cut in summer. That grass is now decaying. Either that or the grass that is growing in fall is causing them to gain fat. DUH!!
Feb 20, 2012 Solution by original poster
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I have a basic knowledge of exercise and diet. I've been helping friends and family get in shape for years. Most of the stuff is common sence to me. So, I've decided to become a personal trainer. OMG!!! There's like a hundred different companies with their own certification program. I've been looking at NASM, mainly because most gyms recognize them. But, in my mind, the certification is just a piece of paper. Look at all the NASM trainers, they are not all the same. Each have their own experiences which govern what they believe works and on what they focus. Some are going to focus on atheletes. Some on muscle building. Some on fat loss. The certification is going to add some education to their knowledge. But, it's not going to make them all the same.
Feb 20, 2012 Solution by original poster
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Jay, my comment above doesn't mean I see no value in certifications. Just much less than formal education. I don't think ACSM or CSCS hurt anything and may garner some respect if they are in conjuntion with the degrees. Every profession has licensing/certification requirements - Accountant/CPA exam, attorney/Bar, Doctor/Medical boards, Engineer/PE exam. It is just too bad there are so many that have no value.
Feb 18, 2012 Solution by original poster
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I'm with Jay in regards to education. If you want to work selling in a box gym then who really cares if you get education. If you want to be a professional then get your degree. At least a masters so you have the research background. Unless you are a former collegiate, olympic, or professional athlete, you will never get a job as a strength and/or conditioning coach for a major university or professional sports organization. There is no way a NASM certification is going to prepare you to train a olympic figure skater or an NBA player. If you want to go sell all day long in a gym to get clients for $40 an hour have fun. As long as you don't hurt anyone and can have your clients adhere to your program you can keep your crappy $40 an hour. Some of us would like to raise the bar for the profession. I just have seen too many trainers have no clue about the difference between a strength lift and a power lift, periodization models, or special needs clients like MS. Anyone can put a client on a treadmill and then have them lift weights. That doesn't mean the program is properly designed or implemented effectively and efficiently. Yes, like an animal... which animal do you suggest mimicking to improve in the pole vault for the Olympics? Once you show me the animal then please point me to the study that has explored the movements, how they are applicable to humans and what adaptions need to be made, and the frequency, duration, intensity , etc... Some of us are scientist and professionals, not fad promoters.
Feb 18, 2012 Solution by original poster
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Couldn't be more true man. The industry is all kinds of effed up. I like the reference to nature. Talk about it with my clients everyday. Eat & move like an animal, you'll look like one. No matter how sophisticated we get, we're still animals. Pick up a copy of "Lights Out." It's a good read. I don't have the same spiritual beliefs as the author. If you don't either & can look past it, the science (and what seems like common sense to me) if pretty cool.
Feb 18, 2012 Solution by original poster
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You missed the point, Chief. Currently, I'm as busy as I could possibly be. That attitude only comes out when I deal with douchebags. My comment was made on behalf of anyone who is trying to land a job at a gym. You think it's fair for someone with a cert to get hired over someone with a degree? Little backwards if you ask me. Would you ask a surgeon without a PhD to perform surgery on you?
Feb 18, 2012 Solution by original poster
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I get the feeling that Jay in New Braunfels is harbouring some bitterness there... did his four year college degree fail to land him the endless stream of clients he hoped it would?! Guess it goes to show that a smug, superior, hectoring attitude gets you nowhere, regardless of what piece of paper you're waving around...
Feb 17, 2012 Solution by original poster
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Does anyone know if AAPT school is wrth going to? It is NY and I could manage 3 mnths out there if it was the recommended. There is a local school,npti , but doesn't sound as good.

Also, I have 15 years working with kids and I want to learn how to train youth and seniors. What are the best certifications for that?

Thanks!
Jen
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Feb 6, 2012 Solution by original poster
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